Child of Hodor

I've never loved the UK covers of the Stormlight books, but I couldn't articulate what my problem with them is. Now I think I know. As a piece of art they are good, but I don't feel the style is a good choice for the Stormlight Archive. The series is named after a magical glowing light that people, weapons, armor and gems of all colors glow with. Yet they chose to do these covers in mostly black and white with red as the only actual color. This perfect for Mistborn, Era 1 even has a red sun. Is this what happened? They used the mostly black and white cover for Mistborn and it was a hit so they had the same artist do the same style for all his books to associate them with that other successful book of his in people's minds? The only way they could mismatch a series and a cover art style worse is if they used it for Warbreaker, haha! OH NO! They even did it to the book about how awesome colors are! I concede they appear to have compromised their colorless artistic vision by including maybe four (4) colors in little dabs. Me to the UK covers:

Awesome! I hadn't seen that WoB, thank you! My takeaway from this is that it's only a matter of time before Navani bonds a spren. Both her kids, her first husband and her second husband had one. This would fit nicely with idea that ancient spren Gavilar found and couldn't bond being the Sibling. She bonds what Gavilar could not, take that jerk! Pair that idea with Brandon saying Navani is the surprise main character of RoW and the Fused big plan centering around Urithiru, a giant fabrial that works best with the Sibling active and Navani's expertise in fabrials. Everything's coming up Navani! If The Sibling is in a gem or multiple gems at once and Navani will bond them, I'd argue that this increases the odds that The Sibling is Navani's spanreed critic. Stormfather is of storms, Nightwatcher is of plants / other lifeforms that grow (she lives in a mystery jungle, but her job is changing people who seek her out). The Sibling being of stone or their special abilities revolve around stone fits the pattern. Perhaps, the Sibling can manipulate gems, making them seem to move on their own. I'm making big leaps and yeah the Sibling is sleeping forever, dead or "as good as a dead-eye". Yet "dead" spren aren't all that dead. Even physical realm beings have a tendency to not stay dead. How many people are present in the Roshar system that died and came back? Szeth, Zahel, Heralds, Fused. Jasnah seemed very dead, but was not at all dead.

@Karger It’s still a stretch to argue the Stormfather is who Aesudan was talking about and not an Unmade when she said Gavilar found an ancient spren given we know Gavilar wanted a desolation, was messing around with Braize, had dark glowing gems and raged about becoming a god to his wife. He sounds like someone who found an Unmade. It’s possible she meant the Stormfather, he is an ancient spren, but not likely in context. And again no one finds the Stormfather he finds you. How did Dalinar find him? How did he figure out how to bond him? He didn’t even know he was doing it until the 2nd ideal on top of Urithiru. The Stormfather chose him. Gavilar could have claimed he actively found the Stormfather to his Sons of Honor buddies to make himself seem grander and that’s why she said that. Seems like a thing he might do. I do buy that he might have the Sibling. Navani remarks on the light being different from Voidlight and it’s obviously different from Stormlight. RoW Interlude spoiler:

Gavilar must have been receiving the Visions very long time then. Didn’t Dalinar get his first 5.5 years ago in the wagon right before he went Into The Valley? That’s the impression I got from how he wakes up startled trying to fight. It makes sense, we”ve seen spren jump to bonding a sibling of the deceased right away with Timbre. The Visions stress reading “the book”. The first thing Dalinar does after Gavilar’s funeral is listen to Jasnah read the entire Way of Kings. That may have impressed the Stormfather. “Good enough!”

This is a great idea! Thaylenah Queen Fen as the leader. Their power should have to do with trade and seafaring. Maybe Spain with Phillip II is the closest to model after https://civ6.gamepedia.com/Philip_II. Spain has religious oriented victory conditions which may not really fit Thaylenah although they are quite proud of their temple district. Dido and Carthage are also close to what would fit Thaylenah: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Dido_(Civ6) Queen Fen says in OB that she was always worried people would find out how nice it is in Thaylen City and invade. So maybe one of their traits should be they really don't like it when other civs that settle too near them, which is a common Civ 6 agenda, or they hate it when other civs move units through their territory or near their capital city, if that's an agenda you can make. Tukar Tezim (Ishar) is of course the leader. He's the godpriest don't you know. His leader bonus might be that his civ can declare a holy war much quicker than normal. They should be a war and religious focused Civ. They are also a coastal nation so a unique ship unit would be appropriate. Norway would be a good template to get some ideas from: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Norwegian_(Civ6) Iri They have three monarchs that work independently and cover different aspects of society. They are descended from worldhoppers who do mass migrations whenever it is "time to", it's part of their religion. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri This could lead to a bonus that gives them a science boost at the start. The Long Trail has led to them picking up a lot of knowledge elsewhere in the cosmere, some has been passed down to present day, would be the justification for it. They are very possessive, they are still mad that Dalinar got Evi's shardplate even though she's not technically from there. Maybe they are not as interested in trade or giving others gifts, but gifts being given to them boosts how much they like you far more than gifts given to other civs do.

I've noticed a pattern of people on Roshar saying they no longer have feelings and then they break down crying or raging in anger like 10 seconds later. Lift accuses Nale of not feeling anything in Edgedancer and he agrees talking about how Honor has finally "suffused" him. Later in the same scene he breaks down crying and hugs Lift. Amaram brags about not hurting anymore and immediately proves that to be false by flipping out at Kaladin for asking him why he still hurts. No hugs or crying, Rock just shoots him with arrows. Jasnah is even praised by Ivory as being spren-like and emotionless which she takes offense to and obviously isn't true. Even Odium is wrong about it with Dalinar. "The pain has passed" he tells him in Oathbringer climax. He's totally covinced he's taken his pain and won Dalinar over as his champion. He walks away and starts talking to the Fused and Amaram. Then Dalinar is ugly-cry-screaming "You cannot have my pain!" 30 seconds later. This is how feelings work in real life, they are sort of a renewable resource as long as we're alive and can remember emotional things that happened to us in the past. But why are so many people, cognitive shadows, and spren convinced it works differently in Stormlight? It's an overarching theme, how people cope with trauma, but why do they take it so literally? I get that giving your pain to Odium is a Faustian bargain that isn't worth it, so it not really working for someone like Amaram isn't a surprise. But it can't work on Dalinar for even 30 seconds, Odium? You said the pain passed? How are you so bad at this? I know *whispers* despite what you tell yourself you're not actually "emotion incarnate", /*whispers* but come on! It seems that Odium isn't a god who understands pain after all

I started this thread with this terrible joke and then in re-reading I see that the Stormfather outright says this in Oathbringer: Yikes, I was just kidding. Maybe there is a more serious reason they are called that. Fused and Heralds are extremely similar and Nale mentions Honor has finally suffused him in Edgedancer. They were infused with Odium investiture to keep them around. They were fused to existing voidspren. Please anything less puny than this!

Yeah, that timeline seems accurate. It's crazy, steps for 2 - 11 happen during the natural lifetime of the people who would go on to become Heralds. All except maybe one were alive on Ashyn when the human exodus happened. I'm assuming the surface being wrecked and people escaping to Roshar happened close together. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13442 The Honorblades were given to the Heralds so the Heralds could use surgebinding and kill the Fused who did not yet have it. This WoB states that no previous example existed to base the Honorblades on, but the person who made them (Honor) was aware of certain things (Surges & that they were used by humans on Ashyn). https://wob.coppermind.net/events/373/#e12036 The Fused are cognitive shadows that can take new body, from another Singer ejecting the body's original soul (or whatever it is). The Heralds are also cognitive shadows, but they regrow or "rebirth" their own body. It's a power they have even when they don't have the Honorblades. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/353/#e10331 I think the reason for the difference is the Fused were Singers killed by humans who Odium then turned into cognitive shadows. The Heralds were alive in their original bodies when they were transformed, the Fused were not causing them to need to get new ones. I once made a joke about them being called the Fused because they refused to stay dead, but the Stormfather basically says that here: Ooof

TL;DR: Leshwi states the other Heralds shifted the Oathpact "lock" to depend only on Taln. What did they change? Process of elimination suggests it involves surgebinding. No one could surgebind on Roshar before the Oathpact. These powers were of only the Heralds. Per Stormfather they were the Heralds. The Nahel bond was inspired by it, Singers were forbidden to use them by H&C and the Fused could not use them at first. To the Oathpact lock "Surgebinding = Heralds". It locks when all the powers are present. The Heralds changed the Oathpact to associate all surgebinding with Taln instead of spread out amongst the 10 Heralds. It's somehow detecting all the powers are present and accounted for on Braize despite only Taln being there. If REALLY powerful surgebinding is done on Roshar the Oathpact locking mechanism on Braize might detect that and interpret it as a Herald being on Roshar. It would then "unlock" so the Herald can come in. Support Assuming Leshwi is correct and the Heralds did something to "shift" the Oathpact to rely on Taln, what could it have been? Whatever they did, it was done without Kalak being there and it wouldn't have mattered if he was back on Braize or not. They knew Taln was dead and did what they did to make Taln specifically enough to engage the lock because he had never broken. The only thing Jezrien tells Kalak to do is leave his Honorblade and that none of them are to seek each other out. The Heralds violate both these instructions and it does not seem to matter. We see a bunch of them in Kholinar in the prologue. Both Nale and Ash mention talking to Ishar and how super duper sane he is. Nale took his Honorblade back. As we know the Heralds are all insane and completely unreliable. Still, at least Nale has some twisted internally consistent logic in what he does. Nale who is the most active Herald that's been on the page. He has that dumb "The Fused are the true rulers of the land, so I have to follow them" which seems to me is truly an excuse to switch sides in order to get out of being tortured again. But, he really does have this internal logic that involves his ideals as Knight Radiant. Let's pretend for a moment he is operating under twisted, consistent internal logic for other things. Why Leave The Blades; Why Is Nale OK W/ His It's not clear when Nale took his blade back. I get the impression it was relatively recently, Taravangian tries to convince Szeth that another of the Honorblades went missing and that's why Kaladin could surgebind. So, the Shin had Nale's Honorblade recently enough for Szeth and Taravangian to know they once had it and they don't anymore. That doesn't mean it happened in their lifetimes, but it happened within modern memory. Like the last 1,000 years or so. The "Shadowdays" a period during which is lost to current historians, started after the Last Desolation and before the radiants fell. I wouldn't think Szeth and Taravangian would know about the Shin once having Nale's blade if he took it back 3,000 years ago. Regardless, Nale has his blade when he is on his proto-surgebinder killing spree. Nale says this is to prevent a new Desolation. He must think a Herald holding their Honorblade in modern day won't trigger Desolation. He tells Szeth: The Heralds once thought they all nine needed to leave their blades for what they did to work. Nale takes his back and uses it in modern day to try to prevent a desolation. What changed? Honor died. The Heralds could not surgebind without their blades. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/161/#e6898 When Honor was alive the blades drew investiture directly from Honor, they didn't need to rely on Stormlight in gems. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1572 With Honor dead they can't draw from him. Someone holding the blade is not capable of the using the same amount of raw power while surgebinding. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/353/#e10331 What's Wrong With Surgebinding? The surges did destroy most of Ashyn's surface. Honor raved about how the radiants would do it to Roshar while he was dying. Ishar forced organization and ideals upon the Knights Radiant during the Desolations because he was worried about them gaining access to too much power. This was long before they shifted the Oathpact. The surges are dangerous in general at high levels but what does that have to do with the Oathpact? Surgebinding as we know it did not happen on Roshar until The Oathpact. The Nahel bond that most surgebinders now get their power from was directly inspired by the Oathpact. The Fused could not surgebind early on and were still a huge problem that led to The Oathpact being formed (OB CH. 38). Singers were forbidden from using surgebinding by Honor and Cultivation according to the Eila Stele excerpt in the OB ch. 115 epigraph. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Oathbringer/Epigraphs#Eila_Stele_and_The_Way_of_Kings_Postscript The humans on Ashyn used the surges to ruin the planet and some used them to escape Ashyn for Roshar. However they used surges on Ashyn was likely different from how they are accessed on Roshar since there are two Shards on the planet and that would effect how the magic system is accessed. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117/#e1640 Fabrials were not developed until after surgebinding began to happen on Roshar. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13333 Post-Ashyn pre-Oathpact Roshar humans had no way to use the surges. The Oathpact gave the Heralds access to surgebinding through the Honorblades. The surgebinding on Roshar was theirs, it was of them. The Stormfather says it was them. The Lock No one on Roshar could use these powers that became known as surgebinding before the Oathpact. Stormfather states the Fused could not use the surges early on, but "men could not fight them" (OB Ch. 38). This directly motivated the creation of the Oathpact and its lock which was meant to lock both Heralds and Fused away off-world forever. Why does it even have an unlock state? Because the Fused were still on Roshar when the Oathpact was created. The Heralds had to kill them all in a timely enough manner to get them all trapped on Braize at once, then and only then should it engage the lock. At the time of the creation of the Oathpact Heralds and surgebinding were indistinguishable in Honor and the Heralds minds. This is built into the lock. One of many things they did not foresee is surgebinding developing on its own. Ishar saw it as a problem immediately and forced the KR to be organized and swear ideals. This capped their power. The KR of old could not be mistaken for a Herald. In modern day Nale and Ishar see proto-surgebinders as a danger. The KR don't exist outside of Skybreakers, which Nale keeps an eye on, so they think the proto-surgebinders might find a way to attain uncapped levels of surgebinding power and confuse the Oathpact lock. Lastly, Honor really does not like surges and surgebinding. He and Cultivation forbid the Singers from accessing it. He ranted at the KR about it towards the end. He only gave 10 people Honorblades, presumably he could have made more. Why did he make any? He was desperate and he thought they'd be out of his life forever once the lock engaged. "Make sure this CREM (no offense Cultivation dear) is off my planet before you lock up!" is a sentiment that went into designing the lock.

I see what you are saying, but I really don't think that's what "ancient spren" was meant as there. There are 9(!) times the phrase "ancient spren" is used in OB: 2 by Aesudan, 1 by Wit in his "Girl Who Looked Up" that's described as "an ancient spren that can live inside her brain". Every other time that phrase is used it's to refer to the Unmade. "His minons, ancient spren" Stormfather describing the Unmade OB Ch. 1 "This ... this is a thing from long ago. Long, long ago ,,," "An ancient spren of Odium. Delightful" Shallan and Pattern discussing what the source of the wrongness in Urithiru that ends up being an Unmade. "It was a different Unmade here; another ancient spren of Odium" OB Ch. 62 "They're likely ancient spren, primal," Shallan reading a book on the Unmade OB Ch. 77 "How could they trust an ancient spren of Odium?" OB Ch. 85 Shallan thinking about Sja-Anat "One of the Unmade certainly. An ancient spren of Odium" Venli looking at the Thrill OB CH. 116 Also, Taravangian refers to an Unmade as "An ancient, evil spren" in WoR I-14. Back to Aesudan, she said Gavilar "found" an ancient spren. The Stormfather finds you. He was ordered to seek out people to bond. It's not like the Stormfather is unheard of, something to "find" and rediscover. The Unmade were thought by most to never have existed or been gone a long time. She says he didn't know how to bond the one he found. Gavilar bonded the Stormfather. He was farther along in the bond than Dalinar was as of WoR. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e2509 I concede she might not know that he bonded the Stormfather. It's not like you can look at someone and tell.

The flawlessness of a gem is what traps them, not the size. It's about the natural structure of the gem at a microscopic level combined with how it's cut. Navani says the spren they've been using in fabrials can't escape as long as you don't mess up the structure of the gem. She's talking about short term though, she hasn't observed one trapped for centuries. I think Yelig-nar would escape from a gem eventually if it isn't flawless. Re-Shephir was trapped and then escaped at some point. Someone could have let her out I guess. Flawless or perfect gems hold Stormlight indefinitely. The King's Drop is described as holding Stormlight for an extremely long time and is used to trap the Thrill. The scholar with Navani describes the black sphere as being able to hold Stormlight for years. Karger's point was that the gem Gavilar had is much smaller gem than the one containing The Thrill, so we don't know if it's large enough to contain something like the Thrill. I'm saying some Unmade are small enough to fit in regular stones, so a smaller flawless gem that holds Stormlight indefinitely could be big enough for a different Unmade because the Unmade aren't necessarily all the same size.

I agree it has to be some living entity of investiture (spren or similar). The RoW heavily implies they sent the gemstones to Braize and back with the box. The Unmade don't seem to go back to Braize in between Desolations, the Fused do and maybe Odium's less powerful spren as well. Ulim mentions "I am the one who escaped. The spren of redemption" WoR I-3. The lesser voidspren may or may not go back. Unless Ulim was trapped in a gem on Roshar. To butcher a famous saying "a portion of Damnation is empty and all the Unmade are here". If what's in there was captured on Braize then it wasn't an Unmade. Could be a Fused Outside chance it is a Fused in there. Gavilar specifically told Eshonai he's returning their gods when he gives one of the gems. The Fused were on Braize, they don't have bodies of their own anymore, Braize is an ice planet with only cognitive shadows living on it per Khriss in Arcanum Unbounded's Roshar essay. They'd be in their investiture form most likely. Or at least the ones that are sleeping would be. The Fused were asleep or a lot of them were and they don't necessarily the status of the others. Leshwi is shocked that the "Lady of Wishes" is out. The Fused do fuss about the humans being close to figuring out how to trap a Fused in RoW Ch. 14. Maybe Gavilar did it already and the Fused don't realize it, they assume the imprisoned ones are still sleeping on Braize. Or the Fused know what Gavilar did and they know Navani has the black gemstone and is studying it. There are still some reasons to think there is an Unmade in there: Aesudan Said Gavilar Found One Unmade Aesudan says Gavilar "found" 1 Unmade, but never figured out how to bond it. Then bragged she has multiple Unmade and "solved the riddle" of how to bond one (OB Ch. 84). Since she is bragging about having multiple Unmade, it could be interpreted as her getting several that weren't the one Gavilar had. She didn't inherit the one Gavilar found, that one was not available she got 3 new ones. Sja-Anat, Ashertman and Yelig-nar (who she bonded). It's also possible she inherited one and attracted the other two. King's Drop and Unmade Size Variety (Yelig-Nar fit in a small smokestone) Navani first mentions having seen Gavilar's black sphere(s) upon seeing The Thrill trapped in The King's Drop. Which feels like a clue. As you mentioned the King's Drop is massive while the dark spheres Gavilar had are not. The size of Unmade may vary and we've seen some evidence that it does. The mindless spren with a large area of effect could be massive, like Nergaoul. The Unmade we've seen that alter people directly by touch or bonding are more human / Singer sized. We've seen Sja-Anat in mirrors as a woman-sized figure and she alters individual spren she "touches". We've seen Yelig-Nar (standing next Odium near the end of OB) and he's man-sized black smoke who can fit in a single smokestone and bonds a single person. So at least one Unmade can fit in a small gemstone. Ba-Ado-Mishram provided forms and Voidlight between Desolations Ba-Ado-Mishram was the source of the problem during the False Desolation. She could Connect directly the Singers providing forms of Power normally not available when Braize was locked up, she could also provide Voidlight. Ado in her name means light, like Adolin means "Born unto Light" https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ba-Ado-Mishram In the RoW prologue Gavilar mentions warping a connection to transport things to Braize and back in his box experiment. I assumed it was the Heralds connection that makes them go back when they die, but it could be Ba-Ado-Mishram's connection. She was getting the Voidlight to Roshar in between Desolations pre-Everstorm, somehow. She may have the ability to pull it from Braize when she's free. The box experiment may have been to send the gemstone(s) with her inside to Braize using the box and see if she could pull Voidlight in despite being trapped. Ba-Ado-Mishram Size, Multiples She's got the best of both Unmade types we've seen: Smart like Sja-Anat and power to alter individuals, but with a massive area of effect. She had the ability to Connect all the Singers on Roshar during the False Desolation, minus the Listeners, and provide them with what I assume were various forms. She's not like The Thrill that does the same thing to everyone, she can Connect a ton of people at once and give them different things. She might be really big or she might be take the form of multiple entities that are really one. Re-Shephir does this, most of her is hanging out around the pillar in Urithiru while she sends her mimics out. It's possible she could fit in one like Yelig-nar. Or the multiple gemstones could contain parts of her either because she has multiple separate forms or she's too big to fit in one of the flawless gems the old KR had on hand when they imprisoned her, so they used several. If mere mortals (at the time) can split Adonalsium in 16, Radiants can split a spren. Meta-Reasons Wouldn't it be funny if it's just Ulim's brother in there? For a mystery object that has seemed important since the book 1 prologue it would be a bit of let down if it was an entity less significant than an Unmade or a Fused. We didn't exactly know the Fused existed until book 3, so there could be some other important entity we aren't aware of yet.

Cognitive realm is really flat though I don't know if depth correlates or inverts 1 to 1 with the physical realm. You would think since Navani knows a bunch of people who have bonded spren that she checked with the Spren to see if it would be a good idea before she did it. Hopefully she did that and the King's Drop containing the Thrill is just a tiny bead that's really hard to find. I'm kind of done with the Thrill, there are 8 other Unmade to play with and learn more about. I hope it's gone for good.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles song, instead of "Donatello does machines". Navani Mother of Machines.

Has that been confirmed? The Sibling was “withdrawing” before the strike on Ba-Ado-Mishram which could mean it was unbonded and withdrawing from Urithiru or it could be bonded and withdrawing from Urithiru. The Sibling is the only one of the 3 Bondsmith spren described as “Slumbering” and Stormfather says “No. Leave them alone. You hurt them enough.” When Dalinar asked about the Sibling in OB ch 111 It’s the only one of the three that seems to have been harmed and it seems like it was harmed around the time of the Recreance. The Stormfather was emotionally hurt because all the Honorspren he made were killed (except Syl). Stormfather doesn’t seem to have been damaged by a broken oath though.

Yeah, its good they got it out of Urithiru, but Navani mentions tossing Nightblood into the ocean and I know he's come back from that rather easily then she's like "good thing we tossed the Thrill in the ocean! *mimes washing her hands*" Oh no!

I think they found the truth about the original "voidbringers" to be disheartening and don't want to remind people that the Fused were people who lived on Roshar and were killed in a war of conquest by humans from another planet that the Fused offered refuge to. It's bad PR, lowers morale.

It's a good feeling when I wake up not thinking about what day it is then remember another chapter is coming! Damnation, I was expecting there to be a twist with Szeth's being in prison. I guess Brandon course corrected. Big shift from Dalinar making him Navani's bodyguard at the end of OB. It probably IS an Unmade or voidspren in that sphere! Brandon redirected speculation on it a few years ago to it just being voidlight. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/352/#e10285 Is this the last of "The Thrill"? It's better off at the bottom of the ocean than Urithiru given what is coming to Urithiru. Oh, Shallan *tugs at collar* eeeeesh. It's tough when you can't remember all the people you or your army killed.

As far as Stormlight goes - no one has figured it out yet. On Roshar they don't even like to use candles because the air is richer in oxygen than on Earth which makes fire harder to control. Why hasn't anyone told them about it? I dunno. Most worldhoppers like to keep their worldhopper status a secret. There is no reason Mraize wouldn't have a gun though, given his monologue about how he likes to study the weapons of "the locals" and he's been to a bunch of planets and collected things. Unless he's really old and hasn't been to Scadrial in a long time, before they had guns. He might not carry it around because it would give him away as not belonging.

Odium already pulled a Ruin on Dalinar by influencing him for his whole life with the Thrill and then nearly tricking Dalinar into making a decision that Dalinar thought was the right thing to do, but would actually end up freeing Odium. Except Dalinar managed to resist at the last second.

Who: The Heralds did it. How: They all used the surges each of the 10 had access to in order to send destructive magic from west to east. Who "They blame our people For the loss of that land ...Our gods were not who shattered these plains" WoR Ch. 26 Epigraph It wasn't our gods (Fused) who did it, it was yours (Heralds). Fused are the Listener gods, reincarnating cognitive shadows. The Listeners would view the Human equivalent, the Heralds, as the Humans gods. The Heralds were incredibly powerful, the Honorblades with Honor still alive allowed the to Surgebind constantly because they had a never ending stream of investiture to draw from and they didn't have the progression of Oaths capping their powers like the KR do, as far as we know. The Heralds were also growing increasingly unstable emotionally and mentally. I think it went like this: Humans had taken Stormseat as their own for a long time, in one of the Desolations the Fused took it back and instead of a protracted siege or massive battle to retake the city, the Heralds decided "Storm it! We'll destroy it entirely instead of wasting resources retaking it". How Any number or combination of Surges could have done the damage we see. It's possible for Illumination to be used as a laser in battle https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309/#e11554 I think each of the Heralds ramped the surges they had access to up to maximum power and unleashed them. When Kaladin dreams he's the storm in WoK he thinks the plains look like something heavy hit them at the center and it broke outward like a plate being punched. That makes as much sense as anything, but that's not where the impact craters are: "The western edge is ringed by ten circular craters.[4] "https://coppermind.net/wiki/Shattered_Plains 10 craters, one for each Herald to unleash something devastating that converged on Stormseat and then continued east to the coast. I didn't draw all the lines of destruction because it would be a mess and I'm just guessing on their direction, but you get the idea.

This came about from RoW spoiler board discussion, but has no spoilers and I want more people to see it . My theory is Odium is bound by an agreement he made with Honor & Cultivation and the agreement was "You have to stay on Braize as long as one of us is alive and in the system". Or something to that effect. He killed Honor, that wasn't enough. He almost got Dalinar to release him by agreement, which supports the idea that he was bound by an agreement in the first place. He has to either kill Cultivation or drive her off. Maybe that is why he influenced humans to play "the floor is lava" on Ashyn and Tanavast shows Odium trashing the surface of Roshar "This is what I fear will happen. It's what he wants." (WoK Ch. 75) Odium's struggling to kill Cultivation directly so: he's turned the Singers against her, he's killed her husband souring her feelings on humanity, destroyed Ashyn's surface and will destroy Roshar's giving her nothing to grow. I know Cultivation is about more than trees, but come on she stormin' loves plants and great varieties of lifeforms. Odium's on Braize, if she goes there she's dead because she won't win a straight up fight, the other ten planets are gas giants. She's still a Shard driven by her Intent. With nothing to grow or cultivate the Shard Intent would win out over the Vessel and cause her to seek out planets capable of sustaining life. Her only alternative would be to expend a bunch of effort to make a planet in the system habitable again and that would give Odium a chance to kill her. Why Did He Agree To This? Odium didn't like his odds 1 on 2 against a married couple in a direct confrontation, he has "been hurt before" OB Ch. 16. He agreed to this and thought he could win quickly anyways and he was wrong. Escalation Through Desperation The Desolations may be designed to get one side or the other to be so desperate they do something really dangerous with the surges. Like what was done to Ashyn and what was done to Stormseat to make it the Shattered Plains. Honor and Cultivation had forbidden the Singers from surgebinding as of the time of the Ashyn Exodus. They came from another world, using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. (OB Ch. 111 Eila Stele) Then Odium nudges the humans to expand on Roshar, then creates the Fused from the victims of the human expansion. Humans are desperate a group of them go to Honor with a plan and he aids them by giving them Honorblades that allow them to use Surges. Seems like Honor caved because he was desperate and gave surgebinding fueled directly by his own power to a select few which the spren then imitated. The Desolations have one true purpose to get someone desperate or vengeful enough they accidently or on purpose unleash surgebinding so powerful it wipes out most life on the planet. A Roshar self-destruct sequence which probably involves Dawnshards. *everyone boos* I know, I know .

First, I love the username. Second, I forgot all about this part of it. I guess Honor caved in desperation, giving the Heralds Honorblades that allowed access to the Surges. If we go aaallll the way back before Honor and Cultivation, WoB is Adonalsium did not want spren binding others and giving them powers to be a thing, so it was not a thing. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13333 Then Honor and Cultivation viewed the Surges as too dangerous (correctly). Basically the answer was always "God(s) did not want it to happen so it did not"

That's a sharp observation! It's fun to see Kaladin's "My Two Dads" thing play out with how they have both influenced him. Interested to see how he and Lirin interact in this book. I'm guessing Kaladin will help Lirin with caring for the wounded. Kaladin doesn't want to train Windrunners and Zahel convinced him not to be an ardent telling him to come back when he "hates fighting". No one hates fighting more than Lirin! It will be fun to see Kaladin interact with his mom dad and lil bro. "Gagadin!" Speaking of Kaladin's "dads". *dons tinfoil hat* He could also be the natural successor to Tanavast after Dalinar. Dalinar repairs it, but Kaladin ends up being the next to Ascend. Kaladin is the only one the Stormfather calls Child of Tanavast he does it in both WoK and WoR. Brandon says it has significance. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12688 I don't think he's descended from Tanavast in a biological sense. Tanavast has been dead ~2,000 years. If he had biological children thousands of years ago then like a quarter of Roshar would be distantly related to him. Maybe Stormfather calls him that because Kaladin reminds the Stormfather of Tanavast a lot in term of their personalities or something. But, it's something to keep in mind.

If Odium is going to be like the books Anthony Hopkins is of course a great choice. I would have someone younger play him though. I think Odium is too much like Emperor Palpatine in presentation and the way he talks. They are both elderly men who manipulate the protagonist by referring to them as "son". They both say "good good" a lot. Odium says things like "There is great Passion here", he's always egging people on to let their Passion free while Palpatine is saying "use your hatred", and approvingly says "I can feel your anger". A lot of that is unavoidable given Odium's nature he's going to go on about how useful hatred is. But he doesn't have to be an elderly man like Palpatine. He should be different. Cast him much younger. Get a veteran stage actor in his 30s or 40s who is really talented, but hasn't been seen in a lot of movies or TV (basically what Anthony Hopkins was before Silence of the Lambs), so when he pops up out of nowhere for the first time people won't know what to expect.