Child of Hodor

Whaaa? Dawnshard Novella? Who has Amaram's old plate, another of Rock's kids maybe? I wonder why the Honorspren suddenly stopped bonding? It's not the Stormfather, he was against it from the start and yet Honorspren followed Syl's lead. My evidence-free theory is that one of the Heralds is in Lasting Integrity being a bad influence. Because he has Ishar's powers and Ishar came up with the Oathpact that bound the Fused in the first place? Or something else. Dalinar can create Honor's perpendicularity, so that's an extra reason to kill him. Weird that they only attack him when they have a huge advantage. He has no plate or blade, what can he do that they are so scared of? Kaladin, stop it.

Yeah, I suspect we'll view Gavilar more positively after we get his POV in book 5. The first two books show him as competent, secretive and wise. The next two show him as arrogant, dangerous and cruel. The final one will show what he really thought and was doing. He was cruel to Navani, I think those resentments are real, but he was lashing out to distract her because she saw him with the Heralds and saw the voidlight gems. He may be keeping his immediate family out of his secret dealing to "protect" them, however misguided that may be. He seems to like Jasnah and respects her as a scholar. They spent a lot of time together discussing scholarly things during the year before his death. Yet he keeps her out of the secret "I'm going to be a god" stuff.

Nice catch! It seems to be a Shinovar religious reference. He's showing off to Szeth by using Shin terms. We know almost nothing about their religion other than the Shin worship the spirits of the stone. I have a theory that the Sibling is the one referred to as "God of the Mountains" in the Horneater Peaks creation myth that Rock tells in WoR. If the Sibling is associated with Mountains, rocks, stones then the Shin would revere The Sibling. Lifebrother may be their word for them. The Sibling has been "slumbering" for thousands of years, the Shin may have forgotten what the Sibling is officially called. They don't have a name or gender.

It's most likely that he was referring to becoming a Shard vessel. He was bonding the Stormfather like Dalinar has been. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e2509 I've seen it suggested he wanted to be a Herald, but he's met some of them and presumably knows they were tortured for thousands of years. I don't think he wants to be like them. My guess is he wants become the vessel for Honor and lead exodus of the humans out of the Roshar system. He tells the Heralds "the journey must begin somewhere". That could be referring to only Kalak and Nale wanting to get out of the system, but maybe it's more than that.

Buried alive in stone? Getting The Belgariad flashbacks with Zedar. *Shudders* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Belgariad_and_The_Malloreon_characters#Antagonists I'm gonna have to find that thread on Bondsmiths flying. I'm intrigued!

Lirin could become an Edgedancer, his decision to stay in Hearthstone even though he had the money to leave fits with not forgetting the common people. He treats everyone he can. He’s nothing like Lift personality wise, but he’s lived in a way that fits with the order.

I had the theory this is why he is the "Broken One" the Stormfather mentions. He's not quite right. In his speech pattern he repeats himself and restates the same thing he just said a lot. Like two people talking. On occasion he speaks in the Royal We. It's probably wrong and just something Brandon gave to Odium to give him a distinct speaking style. "I've always been here. Always with you, Dalinar. I've watched you for a long, long time." "Passion, son. Glorious, wondrous passion. Emotion" Ch. 59 Passion "There, there. That was a smidge too much, wasn't it?" CH. 59 Passion "Dalinar, Dalinar" Ch. 109 OB "There can be, there will be" Ch. 109 OB "Passion," Odium Said. "There is great Passion here." Ch. 115 OB "Good, good. Let us begin." Ch. 117 OB "I've been preparing him for a long, long time." Ch. 117 OB "No! No. We Killed You! We Killed You!" Ch. 119 OB "Kill him! Attack him!" Ch. 119 OB "Good, good. We understand one another" Ch. 122 OB

I am making the assumption that he is able to talk when he is not bonded, but we do know he can talk. I am assuming he can speak to the Rhythms because he has bonded and consumed, countless Singers through the years. He could have picked the Rhythms up that way, if he didn't originally. His voice is often, but not always accompanied by wails of his victims, so Klade could have heard one voice. You'd think he'd mention if he heard a voice accompanied by wailing. Nale's spren is interesting. I don't know if it can speak to the Rhythms, I assume Timbre can because she was bonding a Listener, which no Radiant spren had previously done. The Reachers we meet, including her own family, don't seem to speak that way. We've never heard a Highspren talk, maybe they can. It is out of Nale's normal MO. He likes to get the paperwork in order. Nale is a huge hypocrite, though. I could see him allowing his spren to aid a murder by some twisted logic.

I had a theory about Taln along those lines.

TL;DR The Horneater Peaks creation myth describes three "gods" that could be the Bondsmith spren altering mountains to make it so people could live up there. An epigraph says Urithiru was made by "the hands of no man". Another discussing its creation says people "asked it to be placed" which is odd phrasing, asked who? Shin worship spirits of the stone and don't walk on it, except Urithiru is OK. Because the "god of mountains" built it for humans live in? Humanity was nearly wiped out by the desolation in Nohadon's youth. How did they have the resources and bodies to create it in his lifetime? Maybe the same "gods" who altered the Horneater Peaks helped (did all the work) on this massive, complicated project that would allow people live in the mountains. Details This came about because I happen to read posts by @Halyo_Alex and @Bzhydack on the RoW spoiler board. The part that sparked me is spoiler-free. (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/91137-row-chapter-2-3-discussion/?page=11). It is around the Sibling potentially being the "god of stone" or "god of the mountains" described in the Horneater Peaks creation story Rock tells in WoR. That story is essentially how three gods altered the mountains to make them livable up there for the Horneaters. It describes what could be the three bondsmith spren working together. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Unkalaki#The_Story_of_the_Horneater_Peaks I then resumed my re-read for the Stormlight Marathon on here and the first chapter I looked at had this: If the Sibling, or all three Bondsmith Spren combined made Urithiru, that would fit this. Szeth says it's OK to walk in Urithiru stone. The religion in Shinovar is led by Stone Shaman who revere the "spirits of the stones". Maybe Urithiru is OK because the ultimate "spirit" of the stone, mountains, whatever built it. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Stone_Shamanism Interesting wording, they are asking someone(s) to place it. Kind of like when the Horneaters asked a certain "god of the mountains" for help and this god worked with the other two gods (of waters(Stormfather) and trees (Nightwatcher) to alter what we know as the Horneater peaks. Urithiru was built by the time Nohadon wrote Way of Kngs. There's no evidence it existed earlier than Nohadon's lifetime, although it could have been. In the Nohadon vision he notes that 9 out every 10 of his people are dead and many other countries are as bad off or worse. I don't know if the humans had the resources or people to build it without a ton of supernatural help in one lifetime. Urithiru is really complicated and massive. I guess the "hands of no man" thing could be like surgebinders used magic, but it's a lot of work. Or the Singers built it, but that seems unlikely. It doesn't seem to have the cymantics of the Dawncities they are thought to have built for one thing. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Kabsal#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics This may be way off, but the Bondsmith spren are very powerful. Stormfather could summon a highstorm at will at the end of WoR. Nightwatcher can drastically alter humans down to their spiritweb. It would be cool if the Sibling's suspected connection to Urithiru was more than to act as its battery.

Yeah, since OB I've assumed she was part of SoH, probably one of the unnamed women in the meeting Eshonai stumbled into. It's just I had previously figured Gavilar brought her in on SoH stuff after she became part of the family. Not until this week did it dawn on me that it makes more sense the other way around. Hadn't seen that theory on her being the daughter of Restares. Makes a lot of sense.

@Mistbornwithakitty Two things on the pronunciation of Brandon Sanderson character names. 1) Brandon absolutely does not care how other people pronounce them. He never corrects fans or anything. However you pronounce it is both correct and cool . 2) For how Brandon pronounces them. If the first vowel of a character name is A then it's usually a hard A. A-Doe-Lin is how it is pronounced in the audiobooks and how Brandon says it in the audio of these WoBs. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/21/#e4394 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/127/#e5127 Mistborn spoilers:

Thanks! You all have been putting out a ton of Shardcasts and other content. It is greatly appreciated.

Stormfather was ordered to find people to bond and to show the visions to. He is not a great judge of character when he isn't bonded though, so him choosing someone doesn't necessarily mean they are a good person. Gavilar had been on the Bondsmith path longer than Dalinar was according to a pre-Oathbringer WoB. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3316 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e2509 Dalinar stuck around long enough, acted Bondsmith-like long enough to progress the bond and say the words. Stormfather didn't want to bond anyone, but he has to, Honor ordered him to essentially. "I was given this leave: to choose those who would best be served by the visions". He paused, then grudgingly continued. "To choose a Bondsmith" - OB Ch. 28 I think this is all part of Tanavast's (Honor's Vessel) succession plan. He was dying he made the Vision for the Stormfather to show to people, his Cognitive Shadow (mind ghost) was absorbed by the Stormfather. This connected the Stormfather to Honor's remnants after Odium splintered him. Then a Bondsmith bonds the Stormfather, which connects them to the remnants of honor and they use their power of Adhesion to put the pieces of Honor back together. This is how Dalinar (briefly) formed the perpendicularity at the end of Oathbringer.

Wow! Great work! Im surprised to see Wax have so many more POVs than Wayne. It feels like they bounce back and forth more than they actually do. I would have guessed 60 /40. Maybe it’s because I find Wayne a bit much at times, so his POVs feel more frequent to me .

That's a good point. They only began to use the forbidden form of Stormform out of desperation because they were losing badly to the Alethi. Might not have if they just leave with the gem Gavilar gave them. Big risk, because the Listeners where almost wiped out and if they had been there are no other Singers capable of summoning the Everstorm. But, he's a god and can see the future to an extent. Calculated risk.

True! She does get incredibly pissed at Shallan for trying to steal from her, though. Amaram was an acquintance who ended up being a murderer who was also trying to steal a blade from Dalinar in WoR. She's big mad! I think you are right that she saw through him years ago.This part of Jasnah's POV hints at her figuring out Amaram is not as honorable as he seems back in the day. She absolves Navani for pushing for her and Amaram together. She may or may not give Gavilar a similar pass.

TL;DR: Listeners heard a voice speaking to the Rhythms that led them to Szeth who they ordered to kill Gavilar. I rule out Ulim because he can't speak to the Rhythms. In OB Aesudan was singing to the Rhythms. She bragged about topping Gavilar, he only found one ancient spren, but didn't know how to bond it. She's got three and bonded Yelig-nar. She's singing to the Rhythms in OB because Yelig-nar can use the Rhythms and she's bonded to him. Yelig-nar was found by Gavilar, was in Kholinar that day and spoke through the Rhythms to help in Gavilar's murder. Detailed argument with quotes and WoBs: In the OB prologue it is stated that the Listeners found Szeth so quickly because a voice speaking to Rhythms led them to Szeth. Ulim seems like the answer because he's a spren of Odium that worked with Venli later. The problem is Ulim does not speak to the Rhythms. I say that not just because he's not described as speaking to them, but he actually gets in trouble with the Fused for it. It must have been a different spren or other entity that can speak to the Rhythms. We see Timbre use the Rhythms, but even at the end of Oathbringer she coudn't speak, just pulse to them. Most non-radiant spren are kind of dumb (no offense if any spren are reading this). It's hard to believe one could sense what they needed in that moment, sense Szeth was exactly what they needed and connected the two. Plus have a motivation for doing it. Maybe it was an Unmade? We have the same motivation problem, why kill Gavilar? We don't know all that Gavilar was planning, maybe there was something the Unmade didn't like. Depending on how you interpret her, Aesudan seems to be saying Gavilar found one Unmade and wanted to bond it, but didn't know how. She topped with three Unmade and figuring out how to bond Yelig-Nar. Depends on what is meant by "ancient spren". Ulim is probably very old, but "ancient spren" reminds me of how Taravangian thinks of The Thrill. The Thrill is too stupid to be the voice (sorry if the Thrill is reading this), but maybe Yelig-nar? When Kaladin approaches the Queen's chamber in Oathbringer she is singing a tune that Kaladin recognizes Singing at first, not just humming. Like with words. I think Kaladin recognizes it because he's heard the Listeners sing on the Shattered Plains during battles. It's not something he heard is mother sing in childhood. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10909 Aesudan had bonded Yelig-nar before this scene, she'd swallowed the gemstone, she doesn't do it during the scene. She hadn't started using the surges, so she wasn't being consumed from within yet, like Amaram was. She's consumed in between this scene and the climax according to Odium when he instructs Amaram on using Yelig-nar. The reason Aesudan knows how to sing to the Rhythms is because she bonded Yelig-nar. Yelig-nar knows the Rhythms. Gavilar found an "ancient spren" but didn't know how to bond it. Aesudan bragged about figuring it out, likely meaning the same spren, Yelig-nar. That puts Yelig-nar in Kholinar w/ Gavilar ... with the Candlestick (Game of Clue, anyone?) That's the theory. Making some leaps, but that's what I enjoy doing

Yeah she comments on it in OB. In the RoW prologue she is being unusually friendly to Navani. She pulls Navani away from the fabrial expert who is holding a box. Later Gavilar mentions using a box to the Heralds. It seems Aesudan was trying to keep Navani from finding out why the fabrial expert is there.

On Jasnah's (probable) institutionalization in Vorin temple as a child. Jasnah recalls being locked in a dark room alone. Amaram, of all people, comments on how dark and crumby Taln's cell is when he rescues him from the Vorin temple in WoR. My first reaction is she was bonding a spren and made the mistake of telling people that she was hearing a voice and seeing a person who wasn't there. Maybe talking about Shadesmar. People didn't understand and committed her. Could have been either of the parents or both. This probably gave her extra hostility toward Vorinism, she'd likely be an atheist regardless, but there's an edge to how she treats Kabsul at first meeting (good thing too). This also explains why she goes to such great lengths to hide her abilities as an adult. Both with the Soulcaster rouse and she seems to have shardplate, but even in a huge battle only uses it when no allies are around. I am thinking spren bond was what happened, that's what turned Shallan's mother against her and probably what led to Szeth becoming Truthless. In OB he tells Nightblood he had a voice in his head similar to Nightblood when he was younger and it didn't go well. That said, this being Brandon, I am ready for it to be something totally different that caused problems for young Jasnah. She hates Amaram in the present day, she knows what he did to his own soldiers to get the shards. She seemed completely uninterested in him in the prologue when they interacted. I interpret this to be there's no spark for her with him and she has no interest in becoming her mother. If she married she'd have to worry about ruling a stretch of land and other such things. Unmarried she's able to pursue her scholarly interests in a way Navani was never able to full-time. Jasnah hops around the globe to all the best libraries and does her work constantly. Jasnah was living her best life until she had to become Queen, like her mother, except she doesn't have a partner to split the duties with. Ah well, she can handle it. I love Jasnah!

Gavilar wants to set up Jasnah and Amaram. It seems like it's because he is in the Sons of Honor. Aesudan is also in on his schemes, did he set up Elhokar with her for this reason? Why is he so obsessed with having his kids marry into his secret society without telling them what's really going on? Is he trying to gain loyalty from members of the Sons of Honor by tying them to him through the family line? We knowand Restares, who we are told is the head of the Sons of Honor, had some disagreement with Gavilar. Gavilar suspected Szeth was sent by him. Is Gavilar trying to take over the organization or create his own splinter faction?

Yeah, what he said was an intentionally uncharitable and cruel view of her. She has the aptitude and the drive to be a great scientist. But, her full-time job for most of her life was to be noblewoman and then Queen. Plus, raise her kids, as Queen she'd have plenty of help but between the two of them I'm sure Navani spent more time on that than Gavilar. Meanwhile there are ardents and others who are able to dedicate their entire lives to study, like the woman in the interlude in WoK who is measuring the firespren. Still, Navani had a lot to offer. Certainly more than freaking Aesudan. I think Gavilar kind of panicked when she was looking at the sphere so he lashed out as hard as he could to distract her. He seems to want to keep his family out of this dangerous business he's doing. Don't get me wrong, he clearly resents her, suspects she never loved him and may have cheated on him.

They definitely can't drain it from food because her body converts the food into Stormlight, it doesn't have any innate Stormlight, just calories I think . Nale does use a larkin to drain her of Stormlight in WoR, so she is less impacted because of the food, but they can still get her.

You are correct it is the Bondsmith equivalent although it's not one to one since they only get one Surge each. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8598 Adhesion makes the most sense. It's true it is the most Honor like, but I don't know if that's really why they can't do it. 10 is the "magic number" in the Rosharan system for every planet except Braize, where it is 9. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/33/#e2745 There are 9 Unmade, 9 Heralds quit, 9 Fused orders, the Everstorm usually takes 9 days to travel around Roshar, In a Vision Nohadon says the desolation killed 9 out every 10 people. 9 comes up a lot in the books and it's always for bad things!!