Child of Hodor

Aimia is a good guess. It's unclear when the Scouring of Aimia was though. It may not have been abandoned and secretly guarded at that time. Could be Herdaz and that's why Odium is willing to throw "tens of thousands" of soldiers lives away on that "strategically unimportant country" in the past year. The strike probably took place near-ish Feverstone keep, because the first radiants to quit went there afterwards the strike. Also one of the gemstones mentions the enemy pushing towards it and speculates they want Rall Elorim. Rall Elorim is in Iri, far northwest Roshar off the Reshi Sea. Herdaz borders the Reshi Sea, but the complete other side of it. Aimia is a bit closer. If they hid it before they gave up their powers they could have put it a lot of places, otherwise it's near Iri.

TL;DR I agree with you the Sibling had to suffer a broken Oath based on everything we know. I do think something else is the cause of the slumber though. A Bondsmith Had to of Boken Their Oath(s) During the Recreance I can't get around the almost certainty that Melishi was a Bondsmith needed to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram and had to have been bonded to the Sibling. The event that seemed to be the final straw to trigger the Recreance. I agree it had to be bonded right before the Recreace and only the Skybreaker Order maintained their Oaths. Only 1 of 10 orders kept their Oaths and we know which one. WoR epigraph ch. 41: It's Just A Flesh Wound I don't think the Sibling is "dead" in the same sense as the other radiant spren. Bondsmith spren don't form blades. Combined with the fact they are indvidually far more powerful than the other radiant spren, it makes me think different rules apply to them. More powerful, less exposed in the physical realm and it's "withdrawing" may have shielded it somewhat. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3311 The Sibling was withdrawing before that strike. Something other than broken oaths was bothering it already and may be the main cause of the "slumber". I say that because we do have some idea of the timeline. Timeline They created the gem archive in the first place because they were leaving Urithiru and wanted to leave messages behind. They were leaving Urithiru because it wasn't working properly anymore making living there unsustainable. The first zircon talks of the Sibling withdrawing in the past tense, already happened when this first zircon message was made. The second zircon speaks of the plants wilting. Third zircon says the Sibling leaving wasn't on account of the KR arguing among themselves. This all suggests the KR still existed when the Sibling started withdrawing. The emeralds suggest the strike on Ba-Ado-Mishram happened after they left Urithiru. No one came back to record more messages it doesn't seem. The recreance began after that strike so anything in the archives likely predates the recreance, barely.

It probably was spiritual realm knowledge. I thought maybe the Stormfather would have told him, Stormfather identified the 9 shadows as Umade, and he recognizes the Heralds so he remembers some things. But, Dalinar would probably have just said Stormfather told him and would not have been cagey with Navani about the source. Yeah, Fused seem to have 1 surge each. I guess they call that an order, I dunno. They get their magic from within, not a spren type, so it is very different. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/362/#e11156 Agreed, Navani is getting bad info. Sibling is not dead. The Sibling "withdrew" before the Recreance according to the gem archive (OB ch. 68 epigraph) and is "slumbering" according to the Stormfather (OB Ch. 111). Some spren are telling her the "slumber" is permanent, but when Dalinar asks Stormfather where they are he shuts Dalinar down "No! leave them alone. You hurt them enough." (OB Ch. 111) Stormfather seems to be worried it's not necessarily permanent.

Yeah, Dalinar said it would take weeks. We know Dalinar and Kaladin are back by at Urithiru by the Syl interlude. I imagine that takes place between part 1 and part 2. I don't think he'd give us an interlude that discusses the plot from much farther in the book. Yep, you're right! We're missing something, there's always another secret, but it might not have to do with the finances. Lirin better straighten up and fly right (literally ). Total disrespect to Dalinar who freed his son from slavery and is rescuing the entire village. Does he know who Dalinar is? He's the guy that's deeply Connected to the remnants of god, that's who! (Ok he's also the guy that burned many, many civilians to death. BUT, he's better now!) I have little tolerance for Lirin's stick in the mud attitude. I do have some sympathy when Dalinar is like "the Edgedancers can heal with magic now. Your services aren't required."

Yeah, I think it is something more we haven't learned yet. Something that doing accounting reminds her of? Wasn't she keeping her father's accounts, that's why she could jump right in and do Sebarial's accounting. Did she contribute to her families financial ruin in some way? I would think the radiants with transportation or at least one of the two orders could transport themselves through the physical realm, not just to Shadesmar. I would guess the new body creation is a Fused only thing.

The new Fused power is sweet! What a fight. "Gagadin!" I see Shallan's persona issues are ... I guess better ... but no less disturbing. "Odium's armies had lost tens of thousands in that strategically unimportant region" ... it's probably important to him for some reason. I knew Navani would get her airships working!

Yes, absolutely. My Week 2 reading observations: Ch. 16: Laral is always more mature than Kaladin. She is here in the flashback and she seems that way when we see her much later. That "Kaladin was good at fighting because he was going to be good later in life and all time is one in the spiritual realm" crem didn't help him against Jest, did it? Take that, spiritual mumbo-jumbo! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/324/#e9280 Ch 17: I too enjoy the apothecary and Syl's reaction to him "He's old." The debut of Rock's casual bigotry "airsick lowlander". It's hard to hold it against him though. Brandon highlights people passing the buck with similar phrasing "Gaz won't stand for this thing" from Rock; "Brightlord Lamaril won't stand for it" from Gaz on the very next page. Ch. 18 Adolin is an inconsiderate date. "you can't let your passion for just retribution blind you" from Dalinar. Laying on the themes and the shards influencing the story early and often. Ch. 19 Love this chapter. I'm instantly invested in the safety of this family. Salas the violet moon is out during this attack. No causal connection, but fitting since it is Odium's core color. "Three Gods, Heb" putting it right out there. "A woman Shardbearer" Get used to it, man. One's gonna beat you up later. Ch. 21 "If he'd open his eyes he'd be awake. And if he were awake that pain ... It would be real. And it would be his." Don't give it away. Ch. 22 I like Navani! Great introduction, having her smackdown Wit and plainly judge her son as a weak king establishes her well. Putting her chair adjacent to, but not quite *at* the men's table is hilarious. Ch. 23 Bridge 4 chapters work so well! I'm totally into this scheme. I love the image of them working by the moonlight and the spheres. Ch. 26 The in-world Way of Kings passage about the candles is great. It works as a metaphor for leadership, but the prose is touching on it's face. I can see why this book endured for thousands of years! Ch. 27 Can't go wrong with bridge 4 getting to know each other. Moash has always been a jerk. Ch. 28 "The very first question they asked?" ... "They wanted to see our maps." Of course Eshonai did. Poor Eshonai . Shinovar is weird. They worship farmers and treat warriors as near slaves. Cultivation influence, but also maybe the impact of their history? The Axies interlude blew me away with the world building. This blue guy who can alter his body at will! Gold skinned people. The many-faced spren that drains people. Who are those faces of?? Ch. 29 Errorgance (ugh) - All time great cutting comment from Jasnah "you often seem to say the first passably clever thing to enter your mind". Love Jasnah. Ch. 30 We get Gaz's POV which humanizes him a bit, then it ends with him hoping all of Bridge 4 dies in the next run.

I have a theory as to what this describes: Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above. (WoK Ch. 36 Epigraph) My theory is this is Ishar going to the top of Urithiru to impose order on the Knight's Radiant. I think this is an event that happened so long ago it has been warped as it was passed down. Giant Steps This is what Urithiru looks like from the outside. It especially look like a staircase in the bottom right. Crafted for Heralds This is a misunderstanding after many retellings. Urithiru was built for the Knight's Radiant who were directly inspired by the Heralds and a Herald codified them. I don't think there is literally a staircase with each step 10 strides tall made for Heralds. That's rude, how is Shallash going to get up it without damaging the stairs via soulcasting or her blade? Put a ramp in, geez. Temple Well here is a big leap. I think it's the roof and open sky. One of the two gods they worship is up in the sky riding the storms. The sky makes for a grand temple, indeed! Urithiru WAS built in a spot specifically because it would be nearest to Honor. We've seen one religious ceremony conducted up there by the remnants / man's memory / spren of a god: Dalinar & Navani's marriage. Such ceremonies are often conducted in temples. We see Dalinar swear an oath there at the end of WoR, confirming he is binding the Stormfather. Speaking of binding. Binding the Orders The Dawnshards were at one point on Ashyn and later were on Roshar. At least 9 of the 10 Heralds were on Ashyn and later Roshar. I associate the Dawnshards with the Heralds and think it's probably a Herald using it. Do I have any real proof this must be a Herald? No. If it's a Herald using the Dawnshard on top of Urithiru to do some binding. That narrows down the big things they could be doing. Urithiru was likely built after at least a few desolations, the KR were definitely founded after at least a few desolations had passed. Honor and the Heralds did not expect it. Ishar is specifically mentioned to have bound them by precepts and laws. We know Ishar did a big binding on the Knight's Radiant. We know Urithiru is the headquarters of the Knight's Radiant. If I am right and this is Ishar taking the binding Dawnshard to the top of Radiant HQ I think it's to bind the orders. I imagine this binding is why the spren can't tell their radiants what words they need to say next. It probably established the number of oaths and that there must be a progression of oaths. In Conclusion Remember this when the true nature of this event is revealed sometime in the 2030's

Fair! I'm relying on that description being one of those things that's misremembered from being retold over and over for maybe thousands of years. Urithiru was made by the KR whose existence was inspired and later codified by the Heralds, not literally "made for Heralds". Urithiru looks like giant steps from the outside, but the person probably didn't literally climb the side like they were stairs. (unless they were sleepless). The description is way off in a literal sense, but if you squint ... We'll just have to see which of us is right in 15 - 20 years.

SAME! Are we in agreement that the 10 strides tall stepped structure with a temple on top "made for heralds" is actually Urithiru? It has 10 rings that are 10 stories tall each. The temple at the top may be the roof. They worship a god that rode the storms and we saw a wedding conducted up there, a ceremony often performed in temples and other houses of worship. What did the Sleepless do? Maybe make a binding agreement with the Stormfather that created a perpetual storm around Akinah?

Legit LOL! At least he didn't die in the bathroom like Commodus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodus#Assassination_(192) It was a weird situation where they didn't know for weeks(?) what happened in Kholinar. They had spanreed transmissions that Elhokar's team was storming the palace and then nothing. Maybe a bit of mystery grew from that. After he was confirmed dead they can say he died in a valiant attempt to save his wife and son, fighting outnumbered against a voidbringer army with a Thunderclast and 3 Unmade. Probably need to keep a lid on what his wife was up to.

I think after we get his POV in the book 5 prologue we’ll think better of Gavilar. the first two prologues show Gavilar in a more positive light. The next two show him as arrogant and dangerous. The last one will show us what he’s really about. I think the bitterness he expressed to Navani was real. They clearly resent each other. However, I think he was being extra mean to her to keep her out of this dangerous business he’s doing. He’s keeping his family in the dark to “protect” them.

To be taken back to Urithiru. He used a dagger to kill Roshone, they may not know he has an honorblade. He can be an inside man if they assault Urithiru.

1) Because they don't want to walk the whole way through Shadesmar which is what would happen if they took a perpendicularity. 2) It clearly doesn't interest Nale at all. Kalak is desperate and will cling to any hope of getting away. If they were to somehow escape the Roshar system they wouldn't be drawn back unless they died and they've made it 4,500 years without dying. Getting out of the system is the problem for cognitive shadows, but once they figure a way and get out they can move around like Vasher / Zahel does.

I agree, especially considering Brandon revised WoR after publication to make Szeth's death less explicit because he felt there were too many death fakeouts with Jasnah and Szeth.

The box is what allows for travel according to Gavilar. It sounded like Gavilar used the Heralds Connection to Braize in combination with the box to send other things. The Heralds want it to get them out of the system, away from Odium. Right now Gavilar can only send things to Braize and Nale isn't happy with it. @Goatbringer It would be a huge let down if prologue 5 wasn't Gavilar. The first two painted him in a more positive light, the 3rd and 4th show him as a dangerous, arrogant jerk. The 5th one should reveal the whole truth about him.

Lift and Kaladin team up! Fabrials are increasingly important in battle. More support for Navani as the stealth main character. Moooaash! *Shakes fist*

Maybe. I thought he meant too late in that he already gave Eshonai one of the voidlight spheres or has already set other things in motion to bring back the Fused and such.

I got the impression he’s been sending spheres with a “box” back and forth to Braize. That’s how he’s infusing gems with voidlight. The goal is clearly to send humans off world. I’m not sure they are there yet. I could be off base, “box” makes me think of something smaller than a human. That might not be the case. But I wouldn’t think he’d go to Braize himself yet. That’s soooo dangerous. Plus he knows some Heralds. He should know it’s an ice-cold torture planet. Then again what we know he’s been planning is incredibly dangerous and he thinks he is about to be a god.

Thanks for linking this! When Brandon said “soon” I figured August. What a nice surprise. Gavilar comes across really poorly in this one, again. Not as badly as in OB prologue. He’s clearly smarter and more informed than he seemed previously. Found the realm of gods and going to be become one? Has he figured out enough about his bond with the Stormfather that he thinks he can Ascend to Honor? My theory is he wants to be Moses and lead his people out of Roshar to a more hospitable system. That’s the great journey he wants to start.

The entities that the Listeners referred to as “Gods” ended up being The Fused. Cognitive shadows who gain a new body after being killed. The Heralds are the humans equivalent to the Fused and were created to counter the Fused. The Heralds are even worshipped as gods in parts of Roshar. Shinovar for one. I interpret the song as “it wasn’t our gods that did it. It was yours.” The Heralds. Brandon has stated that at least 9 of the 10 Heralds were alive on Ashyn during the Cataclysm that wrecked most of the surface of that planet. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402/#e13442 The Heralds may know how to wreck shop on a massive scale and shattered the plains. Perhaps Stormseat was occupied by Singers and Fused. The Heralds didn’t want to waste lives with a siege to take it back, so they broke it.

That’s interesting. Odium / Everstorm restored the Singers spirit webs. Using Odium’s investiture I have to assume. Maybe his investiture is blocking Stormfather from seeing them. Although Odium does insist Venli leave her window open during the Everstorm so he can talk to her. Stormfather told Dalinar he only knows where Ishar is of all the Heralds because Ishar goes out in the storms. Could it be Venli was the only Singer / Listener out in the storm or with her window open? Seems silly, but maybe.

Haha. Yeah, I think I skipped over the end of that scene the last time I reread. This may only make sense if you've seen "I Think You Should Leave" on Netflix Scene can be found here: about 1 minute mark

Her effect is subtle in a way, but she’s doing a lot. You can see it most overtly in places like Shinovar where farmers are the best thing one can be and warriors are really low ranking members of society. (The treatment of warriors in Shinovar may also have to do with the ancient barely remembered history of humans on Roshar.) The Horneaters have a similar though not as harsh hierarchy, the 4th son is the warrior the other three are focused on things like food and craftsmanship. Cultivation’s perpendicularity is located in the Horneater Peaks. in WoK chapter “Child of Tanavast” Kaladin dreams he is the High Storm and observes there is more fighting in the East than the West. Partially Cultivation, but also Odium has the Thrill and Moeloch in the East. I feel like the Azish society most clearly show Honor’s influence with their insistence on formal contracts for everything. The Alethi once were more honorable, but The Thrill has been working on them for too long. Aside from the giant beasts, there’s a tremendous variety of life forms on Roshar. Singers, Humans, Humans with metallic gold skin (Iriali), two Singer/Human hybrids (Horneaters and Herdazians) two types of Aimians that are extremely different from each other. Them there is the Old Magic. Can’t think of another Shard that takes requests from whoever comes to visit. I know her Spren usually does it, but still. The Diagram came about from Cultivation herself doing a Boon/Bane to Taravangian. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/397/#e13097 The Nightwatcher offers Nightblood to Dalinar when he visits. I take this to mean Cultivation / Nightwatcher are probably responsible for Vasher/ Zahel not having it anymore and it ending up with Nale. . She’s got her roots in a lot of things.

I agree in that all Odium and Dalinar actually said was a "contest of champions". Most of us assume duel, but it could be a larger fight or it could not even be actual combat. I do think it's a special event though. Taravangian gets Odium to make a deal because he points out "You have agreed to a battle of champions you must withdraw to prevent this battle from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise he can force you to fight.." (OB Ch. 122). The larger war is not the contest of champions. It's an event that Dalinar can now trigger if he's in Odium's presence. If it is an actual fight and not some Brandon-esque twist where it's a philosophical debate, Roshar's Top Chef (Rock) contest, or a round of "Whose That Cosmere Character" ( @WeiryWriter is champion ) ... then Kaladin and Szeth are the two best options. In a one-on-one duel flying around would be a huge advantage. There's two ways to look at it: Who do I think is the best choice and who do I think Brandon will go with if this isn't all a big misdirection. I would choose Kaladin, but I'm expecting Szeth or a complete surprise. I'm assuming this contest will happen towards the end of book 5 and both Kaladin and Szeth will be at the same point in their progression of Oaths. Both of them have been fighting and killing for years. Kaladin is a trained soldier who fought in wars, Szeth trained with all the surges before he was exiled and spent years killing people. Nightblood really gives Szeth the advantage, but Kaladin is far less crazy. Think of how many times Szeth has freaked out during combat. His first fight with Kaladin he runs away, his second fight he lets Kaladin kill him. In OB he refuses to enter the red mist of the Thrill because he's afraid of the voices in his head, making Lift deliver the King's Drop to Dalinar instead. I wouldn't want to bet my life on Szeth keeping his crem together during a battle. Kaladin has had his freakouts too. However, if Kaladin agrees to be the champion and to defeat the other champion I don't think have "whose side am I on" issues during the fight. For meta reasons I think it might be Szeth because it will be his flashback book and he hasn't had as many big heroic moments as the other characters. He's due for one. There are other possibilities: Jasnah, I don't think it will be her because she's a back 5 flashback character. Her biggest moment should be then. Otherwise she is a good choice, experienced surgebinder. Shallan is best when she can use disguises and stealth, could work, but not ideal. Dalinar doesn't even have a blade and choosing himself as champion seems silly. Adolin, is great at sword fighting, but has no experience with surges. If he's become a radiant by book 5 he still won't be as experienced with his surges as many others. Renarin, again a back 5 flashback character. He is barely trained in fighting. Even normal Truthwatchers aren't that suited for dueling surgebinders and frontline fighting.