Rhapsody

hey nice this is still going on. Didn't we have Patji already in the lasr round?

You know your best friends a Sanderfan when the only ideas you have to make her wedding gift more creative are Sanderson themed, even though her husband isn't into the books. And you still go with your first pick. Congratulations on a perfect wedding @Sorana

Siri

Bashin

wb spoiler

I think that comes down to what you want to use it for. Fighting? the surges take the field. everyday functions? sustainability over time? that is where awakening shines.

Navani

Alendi

Karata

to the first part. Yes there were probably fewer Fused then, which actually doesn't make it easier to find them and secondly doesn't give the Herald the abilities needed to capture them and prevent them from returning. The connection may be weaker than with a normal living shardblade (aka a spren) but that is because it doesn't suffuse their souls the way the spren does. That doesn't mean that it would need a stronger connection for the oathpact to work. I believe the oathpact was made and the Honorblades given to the Heralds as a sign for that and to endow them with the needed abilities but the two are actually not so interwined that the Blades would be needed for the oathpact to hold. Prove of the last point: the oathpact still binds the Heralds even though they have left their blades behind, though more weakly.

when you bake for your best friend and decorate it with allomantic symbols and she immediatly gets the reference . When the same persons runs late and her explanation is that Hoid held her up and that is totally exceptable as an excuse.

I agree 100% with Calderis here. I never said Ishar did nothing. Only that I believe he has nothing to do with swearing oaths but instead with the organization into the orders. I don't think that disregards the text from wor.

As stated above (or the previous page in this case) I agree that it doesn't contradict that Ishar codified the oaths. I only think that he didn't decide on the oaths as a safety measure since in my opinion they were there before. He founded to orders and formalized the first oath probably to give the developing Knights Radiant a feeling of belonging together.

wow that is storming hard....

do you think Ishar would just have accepted the ideals the spren came up with while he was in Damnation without wanting to have a say in them in the least? and if he tried to change them in Retrospect after orders were already founded and probably in place for a long time do you think that they would have let that happen so easily?

Yes, it doesn't discount that. But in @Subvisual Hazetimeline he said that Nohadons philosophical beliefs were incorporated into the oaths and that is in my opinion and also by your explanation above discounted by the WOB. Sorry if I didn't elaborate enough on which part of Subvisual Hazes post I thought was discounted. In retrospect it wasn't as clear-cut as I thought.

I don't think so. That would be far to anticlimatic for the forshadowing that has been happening with those spheres.

That would be a beautifully logical timeline except Brandon Brandon himself tells us they are a natural outgrowth of the spren (se below). So not an artifical safety layer.

Well for one we do not know but there are several possibilities. 1. not everyone gets bonded by a spren. So perhaps he wanted to be a lightweaver but wasn't suited to it so no cryptic ever bonded to him. In Words of Radiance (the in world book) then his example was taken to explain the lightweaver ideals. 2. He was only ever an example and never a real person. Just a way for the in world Words of Radiance to explain how different orders went on with their respective ideals. 3. perhaps he was a squire. Meaning he exibited enough of the lightweaver characteristics to be made one but could never progress to the oaths because of his nature. 4. perhaps he was a lightweaver of a low ideal and because of the reasons stated in the paragraph never could progress beyond that. in the paragraph nothing tells us if he has bonded a spren or not nor does it tell us if he has sworn oaths at all. All it says is that Malchin wished for the oaths to be straightforward but that wasn't the way of the lightweaver ideals, therefore he never could progress to the self-awareness that is the goal of a 5th ideal lightweaver.

I'm not sure if we can infer from the epigraph that a spren bonded Malchin. The only thing it seems to infer is that he wasn't suited to the ideals of the lightweavers.

Well since they never were found I always imagined the fused searching for hidden compartments in the walls or something like that because just tearing down the place was easier than searching. But you have a point. They were probably digging because of some other reason.

I thought the listeners were only digging in the palace complex and I always imagined them searching for the rest of Gavilars black spheres.

because there's a difference between organizing a bunch of people into orders and uniting the nations of a continent.

wow. those two roast were already so good I would have trouble deciding. And there are still two more to come *looking forward to this* also @AshsprenI would also like to compete in the next round if possible.

I agree with Calderis on this. And I also do not believe that Ishar changed the magic System. I think he only founded the orders. To clarify that: Surgebinding on Roshar has in my opinion always involved the Oaths (as Brandon said they are a natural result from the Nahel Bond with a spren. So before the first Desolation we have many surgebinders each following their own (individualized, as we see if we compare the third oaths of Kaladin and Teft) set of oaths. Some may follow oaths conveying the same concept but they were no orders governing them. As you can probably imagine a bunch of people with the powers of a surgebinder each following their individual goals (even if all those goals are worthwhile) will create quite a lot of chaos. So what Ishar enforced was that surgebinders following oaths with the same underlying principle and bonding the same type of spren had to organize into an order and make rules each of them was to follow. I think at the same time Ishar codified the first oath into the form we now know (and love) though leaving each order the possibility to interpret it in their way. we do not know what the Fused do to get their powers.