Rhapsody

Hello @DCAand welcome the Shard! Which Sanderson books have you read beside Edsgedancer?

@MountainKingyes that is a better way to describe it. But I still think either way doesn't change the argument.

@Calderisthanks for clearing that up. it explains why i couldn't find it with a quick search.

That is because in my opinion the orb could be an artifact designed or at leat usable in the way you describe. Therefore a threshhold of investiture is enough to use it since that was intended to be so. I can get your theory on this and even agree that it is the most likely explanation. On the other hand most threads I've read and all information I am aware of agrees that the painting Kaladin sees is a painting from the court of gods that somehow wasn't burned. Brandon itself explains in his annotations to Warbreaker and the two Wobs already quoted above that to see something in them one needs to be returned. At least that is how I read the paragraphs. So my distinguishing between the two instances is actually based on the (assumed) knowledge we have of the origins and mechanics at work with the painting and the profund lack of factual information in the other. No I do not in fact have an explanation for this. That doesn't mean I have to agree with yours and I believe I have tried numerous times above to explain why. I believe our differences stem in the opinion we each have to how the two instances in OB relate to each other. And since I have tried more than once to explain my point of view and even have agreed myself on some of your points and acnowledhe their plausibility I think it is inaccurate to say I'm simply saying 'Nuh-Uh' as you put it. To say it directly I think it is rude of you to imply that or at least say it like that. Furthermore I disagree with you that you can compare the levels of investiture a radiant and a returned posses. A Returned posseses a splinter of a shard while a radiant is 'only' bonded to one. Since investiture is another state in the energy/mass equation that means it followes similar physics (if we don't assume that until we're contradicted by brandon we could theorize nothing about it). That means it can't be in two places at once. So Syls investiture csn't be at the same time her body/being and suffusing Kals spirit web. she can have a part of her investiture filling the cracks but not all of it. which if we assume all splinters have similar amounts of investiture means Kal has less than a Returned (as long as he doesn't ingest stormlight). But the last bit is actually relativly irrelevant to my argument. which is contained in the first paragraph.

OB spoiler And I think it will be so cool to finally find out more about his thought process and motivations through his viewpoints

I also remeber a wob that said some vessels participated for the power, others because they saw it as the last option left to them and there were others with still different motivations. paraphrased bevause I don't have time hunting for the wob at the moment Since we probably won't get definite proof as to what motivated those who didn't see another option until we get Dragonsteel or Mustborn Era 4 we will have to settle for waiting and speculating.

yes that is how I understand that it works

since in the cosmere matter, energy and investiture are the same stuff you could say that every realm is made up from it yes. But in RL we also distinguish between different types of energy and different forms of matter, so I guess in the Cosmere there should be a similar distinction. Since in the CR they trade stormlight aka one form of investiture without tangible form while being themselves splinters aka another form of investiture but with a tangible form that is touchable I would say the CR seems like a place were the differences between the states (matter, energy, investiture) become more vague. In the PR the distinction is stronger. Both forms of investiture are more intangible there.

I agree with @Sorana It would be much more interesting than having a single antagonistic entity to defeat. And could still bring the cosmere to a satisfying conclusion.

Wax?

@Matiasok let's end the discussion here. just notice that I agree that her attitude is insufferable.

Steris Harms?

@Weltall I agree more OB and Warbreaker spoilers

@Quantus yes I think we understand each other better know. because that is exactly what I meant. What you describe with would be my theory c. exept you don't limit it to investiture. (though I think it should be investiture since Brandon says the body is popping into investiture) I don't think so. Vivennas/Azures sword doesn't look any different in Shadesmar and presumably it is another take on a Type IV biochromatic entity like nightblood. Though I could be wrong since nightblood seems to be a special case.

ok but based on the wob above and the one quoted below ist there is no real indication that someone with a lot of breath could also use this future sight. In fact Brandon himself says which seems to imply that one would need both many breaths and be returned. This is what is implied in warbreaker, too. And this still doesn't answer the question how @StrikerEZthose are exactly the WOBs I remember, but I still see no indication to why a person with just investiture and without the divine breath could do that.

@StrikerEZ OB and Warbreaker spoiler

you're right and I knew that actually. She is decended from southern scadrians though as far as I know. And that's why I confused it... should have known better.

I'm sorry I read OB but I can't remember anywhere that said specifically that it was because of the reason you implied. OB spoilers At least that is my opinion. Please tell me if I have overlooked something.

That was not the wob that I was talking about. But I know that one to. I edited the one I meant in above actually.

I think there is a wob that says you can steal a Nahel bond with Hemalurgy. You would just need to spike both the Radiant and the spren. I'm going hunting for it in a moment and will edit it in if I find it =) OB spoiler Edit found the wob and another one on the topic. Emphasis mine.

I think you mean Taldain as Nalthis is the world of warbreaker and Endowment is situated there. It is believed that Trell is another avatar of Autonomy. Otherwise this is a beautiful summary of what we know about the shards at the moment.

Iyatil?

I never implied the conversion was complicated or difficult to acomplish. And I don't think so. The thing is in RL when matter is converted to energy at that location is a kind of energy spike which normally disperses then as radiation energy (either light or heat or sound or all three). In the cosmere therefore the investiture that was converted from the body has to go somewhere. Since we don't see any investiture related Phenomena and/or energy dispersions like in RL that means there are other means by which this investiture behaves. In the post you cite I postulated 3 different theories on how that works. with a being the closest to how it would work with energy in RL (but as stated above we don't get any indication that that is what happens) and b and c being in my opinion both realmatically possible. They probably aren't the only possibilities just the ones I came up with at that moment. So I hope that is clear now! I never wished to dispute that investiture and matter in the Cosmere are the same thing in a different state (anolog to matter and energy in RL) but simply ask the question of what happens with the investiture after conversion, posing three possibilities and elaborating on their consequences for the original topic of the thread.

that is a beautiful metaphor and extremly acurate

@SoranaI think they have been doing that already for a long time as there are numerous books in the MTG universe written by different authors. Sadly most aren't good. It is a lot like the DSA books. Most are written really badly but sometimes you can find real gems