The Harlem Worldhoppers

Some truly excellent discussion going on here. I agree. I don't think Kaladin is ready for a relationship with anyone until he fully comes to terms with his past, which is in all likelihood an important stepping stone in him reaching the fourth ideal. I think we are going to see Tarah and Kaladin reconnect in the current storyline which will act as a catalyst for his healing process. In his flashback scene with Tarah in OB Kaladin is holding the same kind of stone as he is holding when he claims that he never really loved Shallan. That stone, as well as the scars on his head, represent the weight of the burdens and the emotional baggage that he is carrying. She absolutely wasn't in the right state of mind to make that kind of choice. However, any choice at all is better than static indecision which demonstrates some level of maturity as @Calderis has said. A big issue for me with the rushed marriage is that Adolin barely knows about Shallan's dark past. He doesn't know about her parent killing hobby or her involvement with the Ghostbloods, an organisation that tried to kill his cousin. With Shallan being in such close proximity to her family, she will likely be forced into a position where she accepts the truths or she kills Pattern. I was rereading OB recently and specifically paying attention to Pattern and I believe that Shallan's bond with Pattern has weakened noticeably from WoR to OB following her inability to accept the truth of her mother's death. Continued willful ignorance of the truths she has spoken will lead to the death of Pattern in my opinion. Adolin enabling Shallan's hiding from the truth by recognising the masks as different individuals is problematic for this very reason. At some point Shallan will have to integrate her personas and the end result may be a realisation that she has rushed into a marriage built on the premise of offering emotional stability and that she has convinced herself that she loves Adolin in order to attain this level of stability. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, the feelings of the masks that Shallan has created are legitimate so Shallan will have to confront her feelings about Kaladin at some point in the future while she dismissed those feelings as Veil having bad taste in men in OB. Precisely. I think there is a very real possibility that Shallan would/will make a different choice upon integrating. This is true. I think Shallan will reach a point where she can choose to willingly ignore the truths she has spoken, killing Pattern but allowing her to be in a happy, temptation free relationship with Adolin or accepting the truths she has spoken and integrating her personas, potentially leading to some issues in her relationship as she is forced to admit that she has feelings for Kaladin.

I'm going to copy/paste my comment on the podcast if that's alright: Great podcast, there were some high quality cuts of beef. Zane is my least favourite character Brandon has ever written and I fist pumped the air when he died. I just can't agree with Matt's take on Taln though. Everything I've seen and heard about Taln makes me excited for when he gets more involved later on. He is actually Brandon's favourite character as well so it comes as no surprise when he is one of the most beloved characters with only a few pages of screen time. I get the beef with Kelsier returning but I absolutely loved that. Kelsier is an egotistical megalomaniac who didn't believe in an afterlife and still may not believe in an afterlife even after having seen the actors behind the curtains. I think it's perfectly in character for him to reject a conclusion to his own life story to pursue his own ends. It would feel unrealistic to me if Kelsier turned around at the end of Secret History and was like 'You know what, I'm a changed man and I'm going to reunite with my loved ones in the Beyond. I can finally be at rest'. Also, on the note of Kelsier beef, I do wonder if Kelsier requesting that Spook be made into a Mistborn was early grooming to more easily manipulate Spook into performing Hemallurgy experiments. Maybe Spook doesn't quite deserve as much stick after all. I personally dislike wish fulfilment in literature so I'm on the fence with Spook. My biggest beef personally is with Shallan and it is for many of the reasons listed in the podcast. She sees herself as better than almost everyone around her and treats her 'inferiors' with a complete and utter lack of respect. The boots scene in WoR and the bookshop scene in WoK are two examples of her abusing the powers afforded by her privilege over some seriously underprivileged characters. She also makes quite a few remarks about Adolin and his supposed stupidity simply because he lacks a scholarly background. Adolin is incredibly emotionally intelligent to the point where he is able to recognise and lift Kaladin out of his depressive slump in Shadesmar and is able to manipulate Ialai to deflect blame off Dalinar, yet Shallan mentally admonishes him for being dumb. Shallan's treatment towards Adolin and Kaladin in OB is slightly unfair at best to completely inconsiderate and bullying at worst. She marries Adolin while being involved in an organisation that tried to kill his Aunt. Adolin knows nothing about her involvement with the Ghostbloods or her parent killing past as Shallan has chosen to hide those aspects of her past, not stopping to consider what that might do to those around her when she must confront her past. Her treatment towards Kaladin throughout most of OB is one sided and mean spirited. She goads Kaladin in Shadesmar for brooding despite Kaladin being close to non functioning due to a depressive episode. She Lightweaves a disgusting face onto Kaladin for no particular reason. She dismisses Veil's attraction towards Kaladin as having bad taste in men. All of this occurs with no prompting whatsoever from Kaladin's end. It appears to me that Shallan was attempting to demonise Kaladin in her own mind but if this is not the case then it highlights some serious issues she has in regards to classism and a superiority complex.

Rashek, so he can go through a fraction of what he put the skaa through. Who would you want to protect you from an Inquisitor?

I think this is one of the most important things to recognise. So many people dismiss the feelings of the personas as bearing no reflection of Shallan's feelings but this is not the case. She has compartmentalised her emotions surrounding things which make her uncomfortable behind her masks. This means that something like Veil's attraction towards Kaladin indicates that Shallan has felt or does feel attraction towards Kaladin. At the end of the day, she had a choice between Kaladin and Adolin and she chose Adolin. However, the circumstances surrounding the choice indicate to me that there are still some unresolved issues that need to be worked through. Shallan distancing herself from Veil rang some alarm bells in my head. Throughout most of OB Shallan has made attempts to demonise Kaladin in her mind's eye. In my opinion, this is an attempt to justify choosing Adolin by delegitimising her other option. We see this in a very literal sense when Shallan Lightweaves a handsome disguise onto Adolin and an incredibly ugly disguise onto Kaladin. We also see Shallan dismiss Veil's romantic interest in Kaladin as 'bad taste in men'. It is apparent to me that Shallan still harbours some romantic interest towards Kaladin but this interest clashes with her 'safe' option that is Adolin. You may wonder why I call Adolin a 'safe' option and here's why: Shallan grew up her entire life expecting to be married off to some highlord and sequestered away in a manor. This is her idea of a normal life and we have seen with all of Shallan's inner turmoil how she clings to any remnants of normalcy. Adolin provides stability to Shallan at a point in her life where the ground seems to be crumbling beneath her. It makes perfect sense that Shallan would rush into a marriage with Adolin. Shallan is far too mentally unstable to be partnered off with Kaladin at this point in the story, although I do think her marriage with Adolin will falter down the road. I do admit that part of my certainty in the love triangle being unresolved lies in the fact that I have grown weary of arranged marriages in Brandon Sanderson's books. I acknowledge that arranged marriages were very common during medieval times and that many cultures today predominantly use systems of arranged marriage. Maybe this is just the product of my Western upbringing talking but one of my biggest gripes with Brandon's writing, of which there are few, is the continued use of arranged marriages in his romances. I hope to see the day when Brandon turns this narrative element on its head and shows us a failed arranged marriage (no, I don't count Evi and Dalinar). I'm still slightly bitter about the contrived resolution to OB with the wedding and the eye-roll inducing 'without you I fade' dialogue. Also, I feel that it is important to note that I really enjoyed Wax and Steris' romance to date in Mistborn Era 2. I felt like it evolved organically and is some of Brandon's best writing. Adolin and Shallan's romance was distinctly cheesier and felt forced in comparison.

Due to his heroic nature I've seen a large proportion of the community predict that Kaladin will die at the end of book 5. I personally think that this expectation is precisely why Kaladin will survive the first arc. Imagine the kind of survivors guilt Kaladin would go through if his friends died while he survived the Sanderstorm to conclude the first arc. I could definitely imagine Brandon taking Kaladin's story in this direction. Do you have any thoughts in this regard?

Welcome to the Shard! Others have already listed some great places on the forums to visit so I have nothing to add there. If you are looking for some more fantasy series to read in the meantime I would recommend the Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks, the Gentleman B*stards series by Scott Lynch and the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan (completed posthumously by Brandon Sanderson himself).

'Is it possible to learn this power' 'Not from an admin'

Well this ruins my head canon that the purpose of the foundation is to give Shallan some much needed therapy

When you start typing out a post on these forums that you think looks like this: But in reality looks like this:

Welcome to the Shard @ladymxdnight! I too fell down the rabbit hole that is the Cosmere. Part of me is happy that I've been able to experience the books and this community while another part of me regrets starting multiple fantasy series which are years away from being finished.

If you were transported back in time to the year 1800 how would you make them most of the situation? An angry tiger appears in the room you are currently in. Do you survive and if so, how? What is your dream job and are you on the path to achieving it? If you could get $10,000 for every IQ point lost, would you take the offer and if so, how many points would you drop? Would you rather have the ability to play any musical instrument at a professional level or become fluent in every language, fictional and non fictional (understanding the culture intertwined with the language comes with this)? Your least favourite character from a book has to protect you from your favourite character from a book over the next 24 hours. Do you survive? Would you rather have access to one feruchemical ability and one allomantic ability (doesn't have to be the same metal) or have access to every surge? Real life lightning storms provide Stormlight which can only be held by real life gemstones. You meet someone who has a week left to live and they have never watched a movie before. What three movies would you recommend they watch and why? Would you rather know the exact time and date of your death or remain ignorant? If money were no object where would you love to visit on a holiday?

Great podcast, there were some high quality cuts of beef. Zane is my least favourite character Brandon has ever written and I fist pumped the air when he died. I just can't agree with Matt's take on Taln though. Everything I've seen and heard about Taln makes me excited for when he gets more involved later on. He is actually Brandon's favourite character as well so it comes as no surprise when he is one of the most beloved characters with only a few pages of screen time. I get the beef with Kelsier returning but I absolutely loved that. Kelsier is an egotistical megalomaniac who didn't believe in an afterlife and still may not believe in an afterlife even after having seen the actors behind the curtains. I think it's perfectly in character for him to reject a conclusion to his own life story to pursue his own ends. It would feel unrealistic to me if Kelsier turned around at the end of Secret History and was like 'You know what, I'm a changed man and I'm going to reunite with my loved ones in the Beyond. I can finally be at rest'. Also, on the note of Kelsier beef, I do wonder if Kelsier requesting that Spook be made into a Mistborn was early grooming to more easily manipulate Spook into performing Hemallurgy experiments. Maybe Spook doesn't quite deserve as much stick after all. I personally dislike wish fulfilment in literature so I'm on the fence with Spook. My biggest beef personally is with Shallan and it is for many of the reasons listed in the podcast. She sees herself as better than almost everyone around her and treats her 'inferiors' with a complete and utter lack of respect. The boots scene in WoR and the bookshop scene in WoK are two examples of her abusing the powers afforded by her privilege over some seriously underprivileged characters. She also makes quite a few remarks about Adolin and his supposed stupidity simply because he lacks a scholarly background. Adolin is incredibly emotionally intelligent to the point where he is able to recognise and lift Kaladin out of his depressive slump in Shadesmar and is able to manipulate Ialai to deflect blame off Dalinar, yet Shallan mentally admonishes him for being dumb. Shallan's treatment towards Adolin and Kaladin in OB is slightly unfair at best to completely inconsiderate and bullying at worst. She marries Adolin while being involved in an organisation that tried to kill his Aunt. Adolin knows nothing about her involvement with the Ghostbloods or her parent killing past as Shallan has chosen to hide those aspects of her past, not stopping to consider what that might do to those around her when she must confront her past. Her treatment towards Kaladin throughout most of OB is one sided and mean spirited. She goads Kaladin in Shadesmar for brooding despite Kaladin being close to non functioning due to a depressive episode. She Lightweaves a disgusting face onto Kaladin for no particular reason. She dismisses Veil's attraction towards Kaladin as having bad taste in men. All of this occurs with no prompting whatsoever from Kaladin's end. It appears to me that Shallan was attempting to demonise Kaladin in her own mind but if this is not the case then it highlights some serious issues she has in regards to classism and a superiority complex.

I'll do Moash. The low hanging fruit is sweetest.

I always imagined Sazed as Benicio Del Toro

I don't think Kelsier becoming a villain would anger the majority of fans. Brandon values good storytelling over the feelings of groups within the fanbase. He would not compromise his storytelling to appease a group of fans. Kelsier could very realistically become a villain in future books. Brandon does not like creating black and white evil characters so Kelsier could have self-serving goals which clash with a protagonist, causing him to be seen as a villain from their perspective. If you were to look at Hoid's actions and interactions in Secret History in isolation he comes across as villainous, when in reality we know he has a greater purpose that is likely benevolent.

I sincerely hope we get a Secret History 2 in the next few years. Kelsier is ambitious and proactive to the point where I doubt he could sit still on Scadrial silently for 300 odd years. He strongly implied a desire to explore the Cosmere in his conversation with Spook at the end of Secret History so I strongly believe that he has worldhopped. One of the biggest dangers an author can face is bringing a character back from the dead, causing the story to lose a bit of tension. Brandon is fully aware of this and he planned Secret History as early as 2006 so I think Kelsier will play a very important role down the line. There's no better reason to bring back a character than that characters story not being finished.

Thank you for writing up on this @RShara. This is quite similar to how I feel about the idea of a second Oathpact and our current batch of Radiants becoming the next Heralds. From the WoB's that you have listed it would appear that book 5 will have a solid conclusion to the arc rather than a cliffhanger. It is entirely possible that the threat of Odium is dealt with by book 5 with new problems arising in the second half of books. Odium has been built up as a lean, mean splintering machine so it would be a big twist if he were not the villain in the second half of books as well. One of the reasons why I believe a second Oathpact will not be made as resolution for the first stormlight arc is because Brandon is a big Wheel of Time fan. If you have read Wheel of Time then you will know that certain events play out in a constant cycle. I don't think Brandon would write his magnum opus series in such a similar way as another fantasy powerhouse.

I think Dalinar is the exception rather than the rule. He is more strongly Connected to Honor than any other living being on Roshar to the point where he can seemingly summon Honor's perpendicularity. Dalinar was later shown to be capable of charging people with Stormlight so it is entirely possible that him manifesting plate in the vision with Venli was foreshadowing his later abilities. If Shardplate can indeed only be manifested in areas of high Stormlight density then Dalinar would be one of those areas given his unique abilities.

I had my qualms over the shardplate is made of lesser spren theory so I really enjoyed this theory. We know that Investiture composed of the same essence can take different physical forms e.g. Preservation's essence as solid Lerasium, gaseous mists and liquid at the well of Ascension. I think it is a definite possibility that Stormlight could similarly exist in a different physical form. Whenever we have seen characters apparently manifest Shardplate it has been in an area of high Stormlight density. Kaladin seemed to do so in a Highstorm, Shallan and Jasnah at Thaylen city. Once the density of Stormlight reaches some sort of tipping point it would make sense if it started exhibiting other properties. One of my setbacks over the shardplate is made of lesser spren theory is that Syl doesn't care when shardplate is destroyed. People seem to think that Syl only values sentient spren but she is shown to like windspren and is shocked when Kaladin kills the spren attacking Gavinor in Kholinar. She clearly cares about lesser spren which highlights her apathy towards shardplate being broken as an indicator that shardplate is not composed of lesser spren. Edit: It's interesting that gemstones are required to regrow plate when considering this theory. We haven't seen spren which are specifically attracted to Stormlight which would indicate that the Stormlight itself is responsible for regrowing the plate.

Duralumin + f-Gold for instantaneous healing Duralumin + f-Tin (sight) for Crime Drama to show levels of enhance Duralumin + Bendalloy (+ Harmonium for propulsion) to allow faster than light travel Duralumin + Chromium to timeskip to the next Cosmere book.

Who doesn't want to see the Scadrian Super Spike Siblings Spooky Shenanigans?

That's the spirit I read the entire Lightbringer series (so far) in the space of 5 days this past week. Nothing quite like binging a good series.

I don't think Kaladin's windbreak was the result of two surges being used simultaneously. It seemed to me that it was just the Surge of Adhesion which controls pressure and vacuum. Kaladin created a buffer behind him by creating an area of differing wind pressure. One way that Kaladin could creatively combine his surges would be to Lash himself off into space while surrounding himself in an air bubble. Brandon has said this is possible and has even calculated the time taken to reach Roshar's moons this way. On a related note, I wonder if the reason that Team Brandon calculated this was because it may be important later in the series (travelling to Braize? MB Era 4 Space Opera). It's entirely possible that the calculations were done just for the sake of it.

This is similar to a theory I espouse. Jezrien, the patron of the Windrunners, is often confused with the Stormfather in Rosharan mythology and I believe the reason for this is because he was able to create his own storms. Adhesion controls pressure and vacuum so it could theoretically be used to create areas of differing air pressure, leading to high speed winds. This would require an immense amount of Stormlight which Heralds such as Jezrien had access to through their direct feed with Honor. In a near infinite Stormlight situation aka Thaylen City I think Kaladin could create a storm. A very small proportion of Radiants reached the Fifth Ideal historically so it likely has some pretty big bonuses. With each Oath sworn the surgebinder becomes increasingly efficient so a Fifth Ideal KR will be able to do much more with the same amount of Stormlight as a Third Ideal KR. The nahel bond grows stronger with each Ideal attained and from what Captain Notum said it would appear that a Fifth Ideal KR is so strongly bonded to their spren that they are inseparable. We know that Connection is an important part of Magic Systems and on Scadrial a stronger Mistborn has a stronger Connection to Preservattion. I posit that by reaching the Fifth Ideal the Knight Radiant will increase the strength of their Connection to not just their spren, but Honor and Cultivation as well. This increased Connection would allow stronger Surgebinding, probably a little bit closer to what the Heralds were capable of.