Ixthos

Fair enough

See what channels it can pick up. What would you do if you found a WWYDIYFIYP post in your pocket?

There is a lot to unpack in that, as these points in and of themselves are worthy of detailed discussion (particularly on the nature of omnipotence, morality, and the point I fully agree on being how mundane yet awesome humans are), but if - for the moment - I could ask for elaboration on one particular point (though I would like to talk back and forth with you on the rest later and in more derail): what sort of evidence would there be if the universe was created vs if it wasn't and is undirected? A big part of analysing a design is also to ask what the intended function is and what constraints are on the design - with regards to this universe, what traits would you expect to see that aren't there if the universe was designed? (Also, side note, but on us being mundane yet awesome, I am reminded of a few things, such as Pratchett's observation of man being where "the falling angel meeting the rising ape," and scripture's own notes on the dichotomy of man and our importance and unimportance, how we are truly liminal beings.)

Oh boy, you're probably going to enjoy the discussion on this when I do my post in the general religious discussion thread on this, but in brief: The days of creation are written as a poem with a lot of poetic strucuture, and poems are usually not supposed to be taken literally - they also aren't teaching there were seven days to create but rather showing the order within creation in its poetic structure - it also matches a temple dedication ceremony (the last part being putting an image of the god in the temple - Mankind was made in God's image) Day seven is explicitly unending - all other days the narrative takes pains to ensure are listed as ending, whereas day seven is not - this point is continued in the Book of Hebrews (Side point: Only day six and day seven are "the" day, the rest are just "day") All the days together are explicitly referred to as one day in the very next section ("in the day God made Heaven and Earth" where Heaven is made on day 2 and Earth on day 3) showing the days are figurative Day is also used elsewhere as a general term for a period of time in scripture, and there are scriptures which state time to God is both shorter and longer than people perceive it - the account is also from God's perspective That is it in brief, I'll be elaborating more on this when I get the post and diagram done

No worries as I said the point of that post wasn't to argue that they do exist, but to help explain my worldview and to hopefully make both the rest of the post - and subsequent discussions - make more sense in how relate to how I view things. These sorts of discussions are a marathon, rather than a sprint - like Paul in Athens as recorded in Acts 17, some said, "we will hear you again on this." Though I wouldn't object to us having a "Chaos talks about atheism" hour this thread is just as much for atheists as for theists and deists, gnostics and agnostics, pagans and philosophers and pantheists. For what its worth I believe there are good, verifiable reasons to believe in religion, and Christianity in particular (I often refer to this as the seven domains of evidence, where each domain is a different type and each is a collection of related pieces of evidence, where some are more compelling to some people while others are less, yet collectively work together to make an argument for Christianity), and there are multiple records - and testimonies online - of former atheists, particularly atheist scientists, who recount their journey to faith and what evidence convinced them. My post was mainly about presenting a framework of how, if taken to be true, the spirit world or worlds and the physical world can interact - later discussions can help add to that framework and show how it is supported. Also, yeah, imaginary numbers are a terrible name - as though numbers in general aren't "imaginary" - though I have always liked complex numbers, as while it can sound a little offputting I like how, in the right context, they refer to a "complex" as in a combination of additional interconnected things, being real and imaginary. I suppose "real" should more accurately be called "realisable" as those numbers can "exist," but still I do agree. Of course, you can always argue that numbers are more real than matter (and there actually is a physicist who believes the universe actually is entirely made up of maths: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis) but that is an entirely different discussion

Call a doctor! (Seuss ...) What would you do if you found a watch with a notch in some scotch with a blotch on a locket with a sprocket in your pocket?

... keep it and raise it What would you do if you found a pocket in your pocket?

I can't speak for everyone, and I am in many ways still learning and still gaining more understanding on this topic, as I believe everyone continues to learn as they grow, but I will try to answer. I apologise in advance if this gets a little long and rambly - a large part of this is trying to establish a common frame of reference. Thinking about this question, I think there are three possible ways to approach it: is the question 1) what is the spirit world / how does it relate to our world, 2) why do you believe in spiritual things, or 3) what spiritual experiences have you had? Reading your question again, I think each is a valid way of interpreting the question, but the first one likely touches on the spirit of your question - and that phrase itself, "spirit of the question," is, I think, a great place to start. I have a tendency to get bogged down in the weeds in discussions, and to go on semi-relevant tangents, especially on very open ended conversations - a boon or bane of the ADHD mind, I'm afraid - but I think a brief examination of the colloquially understood term for spirit - rather than the more mystically baggaged notions underlying that word that bring to mind ghosts, angels, and the explicitly supernatural - can help us get to a common root and reference frame to answer this question - and reference frame is again a useful term to use in this. Also, again, please bear in mind that I'm by no means an expert or professional theologian, and my understanding on this topic may or may not match what others in my faith and in other faiths would say on this topic, but I believe my view is still a robust one. It also will reference mathematics (so manifolds and complex numbers), phasor diagrams (via complex numbers), simulations, and a brief breakdown on the tripartite breakdown of humanity and the universe. (Also please note that for the sake of brevity I'm not going to try to justify why the things I describe here are the case, as that would take too long. Rather if there is anything you would like me to elaborate on or justify afterwards I will be happy to do so.) Spirit, like the word faithful, has a colloquial meaning that in many minds seems to be separated from its more esoteric meaning and root, but nevertheless still ties into it - faith in a Biblical sense is to be trustworthy and to trust in another's trustworthiness (hence faith in the Bible is not blind, but each "hero of the faith" is someone who had very good reasons to believe) which is why we get the term faithful; being faithful is to keep faith, to not betray a trust. Similarly with spirit - it is in essence the "breath," the wind, the essence of something - the spirit of a law is the essence of the law, what the law means. So spiritual fundamentally means looking at the foundation or root, something more essential than what is physical even if it, ironically, seems less substantial. Spirit is, fundamentally, the fundamentals, and what underlies more mundane things, yet can also manifest over it. On the Body, Soul, and Spirit Now this all may seem a little tangential to the topic, but it is important to understand for the explanation later what these things are and how they relate so as to better understand the main point later - namely that everything has a spiritual component, though some things are more spiritual without a physical medium, and others are physical and only partially touching the spiritual. Of course, the above section can be seen entirely to be a physical manifestation of physical patterns - the soul is patterns in the brain, and the spirit as underlying principles to those patterns - no higher worlds are required. However it is when they display traits that go outside of physical principles and probabilities that things become more difficult to explain purely physically - these are entirely anecdotal and so obviously don't constitute the type of evidence that can be scientifically verified, but I've had and been granted insight into situations I couldn't possibly have known and which has left both myself and others stunned that I made certain observations or knew certain things, or said certain things which moved people in ways they didn't think possible (to give one example, when I was about eight I spoke to someone and they later told me that before that point they wanted to die - what I said convinced them to live). Another has been movement in my conscience to take certain actions or undo certain things I'd done before it was too later, feelings deeper in me than my emotions - which fully wanted to do those things or let them persist - that motivated me to act, and those actions turned out to be for the best, as well as a feeling of absolute serenity and calm in some situations when inside I knew what my emotions wanted to do and what would be a normal response (an anecdote from that time was when I was in high school I was slapped twice hard across the face by a fellow student because he felt insulted that I didn't want to enter a Mosque and my reasons when others kept pressing me to do so - and while I felt the slaps I didn't feel any anger towards him, nor was I upset he hit me, I only felt peace and sorry for the anger in him). And another has been answered prayers and things so incredibly unlikely, favour shown when it was not due and things working together so unexpectedly I almost didn't believe them having happened at the time, probabilities shifting and moving. These aren't powers I can call up at will, only experiences that show me - scientifically minded though I am - that there is more going on than purely physical phenomena, if only from the statistical unlikelihood of those evens, all taken together. Most of those events are deeply person experiences, and some I only dimly remember, but they stand as poles of personal experience, along with the intellectual reasoning I have for my faith, that encourage me and still leave me filled with wonder. Those examples are the more subtle type of spiritual experience, as I feel there are at least three types (the omnipresent "background" level of spirituality that everyone experiences on a daily basis and doesn't notice, the "could just be coincidence" level mentioned above where highly unlikely but still theoretically possible events occur, and the outright miracles - i.e. the only way to explain them physically would be that everyone involved hallucinated). Now, I promised maths! Or at least how certain mathematical and computer science ideas relate to this topic. As this post is already getting long (and I realised I think my middle section just above here and below the first spoiler box where I recount some of my own experiences might actually have been more in line with what you asked) I'll try to truncate my response, and likewise put it in spoilers. None of these examples are meant to prove this is the case, only to address how such things are valid ways of considering the relation between the physical and spiritual world, and without going into the moral dimension and Hume's Guillotine - I'm hoping later, after the Seven Days of Creation post is completed, to address the evidence for and logic behind the necessity for the Spirit World. Anyhow, I hope this much longer than intended post was helpful! Please let me know if you would like me to elaborate on any point, or if I did successfully manage to answer your question

I should be going to bed, but I remembered hearing a few years back a beautiful work of fan music that expanded on the in-setting music, "The Colour of Trust," which was also the name of the chapter is appeared in, and decided to give it a listen again. It really is a well written and clever expansion of the song as presented in Lord of Chaos. Listen here:

@Spook's biggest fan in all seriousness, why do you feel God - or any supernatural beings - would invalidate free will, or control you?

I would name him - or her - Fernando, and raise it in a glass jar, or set it free. What would you do if you found a phone number in your pocket?

First, make sure I'm not in an episode of Warehouse 13. Second, see if I can get it appraised and turned in to some museum. What would you do if you found Syl in your pocket?

Try to determine its metal first, to see what trait it corresponds to Feruchemically - otherwise try to tap it if it seems safe. What would you do if you found nothing in your pocket?

We wants it, precccious! ... I mean ... I'd see if any eagles would be available to shorten my trip What would you do if you found a letter from Hogwarts in your pocket?

Go get it translated, or at least look up what the hieroglyphs mean What would you do if you found a portal to the moon in your pocket?

My point about it being counterintuitive is that - in the real world - if your body grew a new head you would expect the resulting person to be entirely new, none of the same memories or personality, etc. - you would expect a form of healing that preserved the person to use the head, where those traits are stored. In the Cosmere we know why those traits can be translated to a head grown from the body, but it still is an unexpected statement, especially considering that the body likely wouldn't loose mass to make the new head, the mass produces via the healing method, so using the larger mass, despite it being more "you" in terms of volume rather than intuitive function (which is why we think of storing heads rather than headless bodies if you can't freeze an entire body for cryostasis) wouldn't necesserily be necessery for Cosmere healing, even though it is.

Woops, thanks for the correction! Either way, yeah, when someone heals in the Cosmere they don't duplicate, and the part that the body reforms from can be very counter intuitive.

It looks like the commentary is in text over the gameplay footage - otherwise, yes, this is Brandon playing Elden Ring!

I think the only spot that allows you to remove powers is the heart, which means the two spikes would likely have to be attached to each other in some way. If they are for separate powers they possibly would take both powers at the same time, as the reason you normally can only take one power from someone is because the process usually kills the person - there are quotes about hypothetically repeatedly spiking the power of healing from a twinborn gold compounder. If they are for the same power then they likely would only gain half that power each, much like how a spike, when split, divides up the stolen power between them with some loss - in this case there probably wouldn't be any loss besides the usual depletion between the spike entering their body and then entering someone else's. The Lord Rulers described a similar situation where he claimed to have been beheaded once (and there are hints from a non-canon novel that a decapitated head will regrow the body, rather than the body regrowing a head [Edit:] Correction thanks to @Honorless, it was actually the body that regrew the head). For Shadeplate any portion of it can be coaxed into regrowing the entire plate, and if two people are competing it will only settle on one, the other competing attempt to regrow the plate being overcome - you seemingly can't get something to replicate via healing in the Cosmere. If Vin did cut Kaladin in half (thanks to the power of time travel ) then either the side Kaladin felt was where he was more centred, or the larger half, would probably be restored, while the other half wouldn't.

That would make the most sense but it also kind of makes the setting feel a little less magical, even if it is the most practical way of doing it. I would have preferred it if the description in the book would have been that of concrete rather than stone though.

Ahhh, I missed that part. Looking back I see the line now: "why didn't he go there first." Thank you for the correction. I think my last point still holds - he may not feel able to claim it yet as he is needed elsewhere, and perhaps he needs something to be completed with his ... other work first. It could be that he fully intended to claim it later but thought waiting until he was ready was best, as what were the odds of someone else finding it first? So when it was claimed by another he only then made his intentions towards it known.

You mean you are unAbel (... wait, I already used that one ...) uh, I mean, maybe I should leave. Or ... Levi? Those all sound really interesting, thanks I'll see if maybe there is an English translation, though I may not be able to get a hold of any copies before beginning, though if you have access to any of them I'd be very interested if you could cover some of what they say in the corresponding discussions, and I'll definitely search for and give Rav Medan's videos a watch.

True, and I appreciate that on the Eve of being granted such insights one shouldn't construct A-dam to hold it back. Such is one's Lot in life, I suppose, though one mustn't live in Terah of making so many mistakes, even if doing so leaves one unAbel to continue. ... okay, I think I'll stop. I Noah when I've said too much I don't want to be Cained.

Give me a day or six and I'll see what I can do (Yes, that one was bad too - I hope the floodgates don't open on that! I might need to ark myself what I'm doing if that happens! But listen to me Babbling right now!)

Gotcha, thanks I'll see if I can buy a copy. Also, understood on the quotes, typing mistakes do happen. I couldn't tell if you were deliberately teasing me or not, so I tried to tease back - sorry if that didn't go as well as I'd hoped, it isn't easy to tell how others will take what one writes, especially if trying to gently rib someone (and speaking of ribbing someone, that certainly is applicable for Genesis!)