Meg

Upvote for beating me with my own weapons . You're right, I totally forgot about this, though I stick with four sets for the Kholins (Dalinar, Elhokar, Gavilar and Adolin's). This is correct again . Dalinar said this a few minutes before he "went" to Feverstone Keep. Yes, but anyway, we know that Amaram has a set. And I'll stick with information from TWoK.

I'm sorry for that question especially if it is answered already (I'm strictly avoiding the Glimpses thread because I want to make my own assumptions). Are the Glimpses in chronological Order? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for clarification. And I never wanted to sound like my counting is the only one possible. It is just my personal sum-up of the information I remember. That's right, but one set he must hold back for such events (so the one set I count "stands"). Digging deeper I found another two sets for Shards for Alethkar (though not necessarily House Kholin): TWoK Ch. 18 Surely I'm only making assumptions but I'll try to back them up with the evidences TWoK gives us. I've always felt like Elhokar's Set is not Gavilar's (my gut says Elhokar got his Set prior to the events in TWoK -- including the Prologue). I've made a quick search-through again. Szeth's description of Gavilar's Blade does not fit the description of Elhokar's: Szeth describing Gavilar's Blade: (TWoK Prologue) The description of Elhokar's blade during the chasmfiend hunt: TWoK Chapter 13 Those descriptions don't fit, I think. My first count was: If we add those two sets mentioned above, we know of eleven full sets (and ...) in Alethkar and at least seven of them are possessed by the Kholin's.

Hey Hoser, I intentionally didn't include WoR-information because the thread is in the TWoK-Subforum.

Hey Shardlet, I've some questions for clarification. Where did you get the number "forty"? The only scene that came promptly to my mind when Dalinar "talked" about Blades has been the Feverstone-Vision. There's talk about "some twenty" Blades: (emphasizes mine) In a quick search-through I didn't find another passage referencing this topic, can you point me to your source? And I'd like to make a veto regarding your count. I'd say: Dalinar (b + p) Gavilar's -- missing (presumably still in Kholinar) (b + p) Elhokar('s own) (b + p) Adolin (b + p) an unknown number of p/b won from the Parshendi that are in Elhokar's possession, but I think it's at least one (b + p) That's at least five sets of Shards for House Kholinar. Sadeas (p) And -- I nearly forgot --, of course there is Amaram (b + p) (remark: I've read your last sentence too late, but I'll leave Amaram as for I'm sure that the highprinces yet know about him having Shards -- *spanreeds* ). Resi (b + p) (TWoK Ch. 58) (3 p/b) Thats one Set and three either Blade or Plate So we know at least seven full sets of Shardplate and Blade for the Kholinars and one full set and three pieces from Thanadal's Princedom as well as one Plate for Sadeas and one set for his follower Amaram. -> nine full sets and four single pieces Assuming that my counting was right there would be some eleven (or less) blades "lost" in Alethkar. I could imagine that there are some Shards around in lost corners or just hidden. But all of this does not nearly answer where the bigger part of the Shards born by the Knights Radiant are lost. Hopefully I didn't mess something up again. ninja'd by Hoser but I'll send the post and then read Hoser's post. edit: Oh, Ddleg has been faster, too. Now I've read Hoser's post. I totally forgot this about the Blades. Regarding the Plates this raises the question if there's a bunk of Plates there, too. Or did the Plates immidiately lose this ability when given up by the Knights Radiant?

Brandon said that Hoid is "something else entirely". I know, it's said in present time, but what makes me think, he wasn't a Shardholder, too, is the "something else." Also Brandon said that Hoid would be tempted most by Endowment, what makes me think, that he hadn't been a Shardholder. As far as we know, Endowment is alive (that would mean that his/her Shardholder is alive, too, wouldn't it?). I could imagine (from my gut) that Hoid was Adonalsium's "Holder" though it's hard to believe that he could survive the Shattering. That could explain why he's gathering pieces from the Shards. I've a new question, I haven't seen asked before: "Can the persons holding a Shard of Adonalsium let it go and take another Shard? Or could two of them exchange their Shards?"

I'm quite sure Amaram doesn't have Gavilar's Plate and Blade. From the excerpts we know that Amaram and Gavilar knew each other prior to Gavilar's death (and likely had been friends). I'm with the possibility that Gavilar's Set is kept in Kholinar. Perhaps worn by Tearim or another bodyguard of the royal family (if Tearim didn't survive Szeth's assault on Gavilar) or/and for Elhokar's (potential) successor. And from the excerpts we know that he now indeed has an "infant son", who most likely would inherit Gavilar's Set. Also I can't believe that anybody had been able to steal this set. And then: how would it have gotten to Amaram's attacker (if it was Helaran or not).

So after I've made false assumptions here I found myself contradicted as I wrote here. The rise of the Hierocracy was five hundred years prior to TWoK and surely has no effect on the current calendar. @Delightful: If you did a double post you can hit the "hide" button to make the redundant post vanish. edit for clarity, you do not have to edit that post first.

Hey Hoser, thanks for your reply. It made me have a look for "Hierocracy" in TWoK and I find myself contradicted . TWoK Chapter 26 (emphasizes mine) I should have thought about searching for information about when the Hierocracy happened, before I posted my OP. So you are right with this: As well as AG Rooster was. As for the Sunmaker: TWoK Chapter 24 And: TWoK Chapter 12 Though the Sunmaker was said to have ended the Hierocracy, he was an Alethi king and wouldn't he have united (only) the Alethi Highprinces? His efforts don't seem to have lasted long, as for the last quote says that Gavilar and Dalinar had reunited Alethkar’s warring highprinces after centuries of strife. Briefly speaking: The Hierocracy started around five centuries ago. It surely had no effect on the current calender. Those last five centuries seem to be packed with great events: The rise of the Hierocracy, the Sunmaker with the fall of the Hierocracy and the reunification of the Highprinces, that reunion desintegrating again, "centuries of strife" until Gavilar reunited the Alethi Highprinces once more. All this information seem to focus on Alethkar ... A last thought: I could imagine that the fifth Kingdom was Rilir resp. Herdaz.

It's a little offtopic. You say, "to get to Urithiru, you have to use Oathgates." Do you refer to the present time on Roshar? I think, that at least when Urithiru had been the center of the KR (and apparently other people lived there, too), it has not been necessary to use Oathgates. I don't dispute that Oathgates might have existed (or still exist). I only think they have not been the only possibility to get to Urithiru. After all Harkaylain (sp?) told Heb (aka Dalinar), if he wishes to fight, he should come to Urithiru. Harkaylain did not in any way suggest that Heb would need help to get to Urithiru. Thus I think it has been accessible by ordinary means (as going there by foot -- which is what Nohadon did).

That's interesting, as for BS said: source BS counts nine characters and "one of the other Heralds" whom we have met in TWoK. And now Peter says that not all of the main characters have been mentioned in TWoK. Has Adolin been "removed" and another -- yet unknown -- character gets his book? If this would be Eshonai, then the "no" wouldn't work either. I don't recall if BS said that Eshonai will get an own book ... can somebody help me? @Macen: I'd really appreciate if you could quote the WoB you're referring to. Thanks in advance.

Though that quote from October 2013 is interesting I'd like to point at the AoL Ars Arcanum. Artificial or not, I'm gonna stay with the definition given there, even if it's not helpful for all of the Cosmere, but it says more or less directly that the Metal is the focus for Allomancy and Feruchemy. The AoL AA is confusing, too, I admit, as for it uses the terms "catalyst" (with reference to the metals, when used in Allomancy) as well as "key" for the form-shaped Investiture on Sel. Apparently all three terms are used kind of identically. The TWoK AA doesn't feel helpful on this problem to me. There is only one reference to "focus" describing the Alerters. I'm not sure if we can make generalizations from this description (as to say: the focus on Roshar are the gemstones). I think we know to little at the moment. Hopefully the WoR AA will help a bit. As a side note: At least at the moment I don't believe that "Focus" in "Body Focus" means the same "focus" we try to get a definition for here. I think, BS loves it to throw around some terms, knowing we would try to determine each one exactly.

I don't know if this has been brought up already and apologize in advance if I'm only repeating things. TWoK Chapter 8 (Nearer the Flames) says: (emphasizes mine) Those emphasized parts imply that the Hierocracy and the Recreance have a strong temporal connection. It doesn't imply whether the Hierocracy caused the Recreance or only followed it, unfortunately. I would assume that the Recreance and the begin of the Hierocracy have been at (nearly) the same time in the past. I, too, could imagine that the begin of the Hierocracy was day 0 of the current calender. If this quote has been discussed already I'd appreciate a link. Otherwise: Any thoughts?

In regard to the question if there could be spren on other worlds I'd like to throw in a quote from BS: source I think spren are unique to Roshar because every Shardworld has it's unique "identity" and soul. source Though I've never played Final Fantasy I think (and hope) the term "soul" doesn't have an entire different meaning there than usual. This would mean that each planet has it's own soul making it unique. So I'd assume that spren are unique to Roshar, but there might be "Splinters of Adonalsium" around on the other planets, too, though not being spren. I could imagine that Adonalsium visited other planets, too, and left splinters of himself there. Does this make sense?

I've been musing about how to get WoR as fast as possible, too. Getting an/the ebook is no option for me, I want the real book. I've just had a look at bookdepository.com. It says the delivery time to Europe is 7 to 10 days. Does this, in this case, mean 7 to 10 days from March 4th? Does anybody know? Will the shippings to bookstores in other countries (especially Germany ) start soon enough to get the book here on March 4th, too? I'm so excited . edit: I'm not talking about the German version, only about the original Tor-book.

I'll read WoR from the beginning, though I've read the excerpts and the readings. As others said, my first read through will be faster than the re-read.

Thanks Sometimes it's quite difficult to find the right translation so I've got to ask seemingly 'dumb' questions.

Thanks Hoser I hope you don't feel insulted. My problem is the same: searching in the forums is quite frustrating. Mostly, if I remember I saw a quote, I'm able to find it, but if I don't remember anything, I'm lost. So my apologizes.

Some information about the history: TWoK Chapter 3 So this says: Shadowdays - Aharietiam - Recreance - Hierocracy - Sunmaker - Gavilar TWoK Chapter 26, emphasizes mine And the Hierocracy happened some five centuries prior to TWoK. TWoK Chapter 45 This quote isn't really 'on topic' but it seems to say that the Hierocracy and the Recreance correlate. I wondered before if the beginning/upcoming of the Hierocracy wouldn't have been the trigger of the Recreance. But this -- surely -- is only an idea of mine. Unfortunately I couldn't find when the Sunmaker destroyed the Hierocracy. TWoK Chapter 24 And that the Sunmaker was young, 17 years, when he started his conquest (TWoK Chapter 29), which was the destruction of the Hierocracy. Then: TWoK Chapter 12 It seems that posterior to Sunmaker's reign Alethkar once more disintegrated and "after centuries" Dalinar and Gavilar were the first to re-unite the ten Highprinces of Aletkhar. May be this helps a bit.

Can you please quote this WoB and it's source. In general I'm not fond of searching for evidences, when someone only says "There's WoB". I for myself try to give sources and quotes if I use them and I'd really appreciate if this would/could be common practice.

That was exactly what I wondered reading this part: "Is it normal to feel the Thrill in a duel?" I kind of thought that in a duel the Thrill doesn't come up. I'm curious if we get an answer to this question later on in the book. I'm not sure I'd call it different levels, but surely there are different types of the Thrill, as your quote perfectly shows. In "Starfalls" (Ch. 19) when Dalinar was fighting the Midnight Essences, is to be read: If I understand this right, "the sense of battle" means the "vibe" or "mood" for the battle? This type of Thrill really seems helpful in battle. What Adolin felt must have been another type because it made him act more brutal than usual in a duel.

Though this sounds very ironically, I'm with you here. Anyway I'd not say that the Parshendi in all are dishonorable. But this special event was not "of honor" (I didn't write "of Honor" by purpose); I was more a desperate decision made because of the fears the Parshendi had, although this motive doesn't justify an assassination. This said in advance. *1: Szeth was told that he had to wear white because: TWoK, Prologue So it's not (only) about Gavilar, it's been told as tradition and why. *2: Neither from TWoK nor from the excerpts from WoR I see that the Parshendi "made sure that he was seen in their retinue". What did I miss? *3: This might be the 'honorable' part of this event, but I think it was more something like a warning (even though they didn't explain further). *4: Surely they could have tried to do so. But I think this would have been against their reasons for Gavilar's assassination. I apologize for not having/giving more than gut feelings for my impressions. I -- naively -- always believed what Gaz told Kaladin: But with this newer information about Parshendi spies you're right to ask. I'd like to know why you think the idea came from Ialai and if you think Shen should spy on the bridgemen for Sadeas?

@ Peter: Thank you very much. I mentioned this problem here and I'm glad that you clarified this now. @ how to term the calender: I'd suggest either Modern Vorin Calendar or Rosharan Eastern Calendar. again @ Peter: Now I've got to think about the TWoK-timeline again. I've thought about how long it took from Kaladin's arriving on the Shattered Plains until the end of TWoK and came up with 3 to 3,5 months here. It's not about dates, only about the time that went by. I'd be glad if you would give me a hint if I'm totally wrong or not. And then: I think I remember that you once said that the dates/years given at the chapter beginnings (for example: "Five years ago") are not nearly accurate. Is this so? For every given date? I ask because: -- Chapter 1 says: "Five years later" (after Gavilar's death) -- Chapter 2 says: "Eight month later" -- Chapter 47 + 51 say: "One year ago" Chapter 1, 47 and 51 happen on the very same day. So my question is: Is the information "Eight months later" and the information "One year ago" accurate? Sorry to bother you, but I'm "chewing" on this problem for around a year now. edit: Or did you hit at those three chapters in your earlier post? This would mean that Chapter 50 happens two months after Kaladin's arrival on the Shattered Plains, wouldn't it?

Thanks, that's a possibility.

Is it possible to get a list of the complete articles but only for TWoK? The current list shows the articles of the other books, too, and it would be easier have the list more packed.