StanLemon

Oh I doubt it's a well know thing, but those with the more scholarly outlook probably were able to put things together and figure out there was a power other than Allomancy out there. Even if they didn't know the specifics

So in TFE I came across something I had never paid much attention to before. When Vin reads an excerpt from one of Elend's books explicitly mentions Feruchemists and metal minds and the ability to store information. And this wasn't even a band book. This makes me suspect that Elend and likely other nobles at least had a general idea of Feruchemy. Who knows what information other books had.

@Artemos Kelsier actually does something similar to that in the first book. When he is fighting Bendal he Pulls on one soldier's breast plate while pulling on several others in a different direction to pivot himself and use the first soldier as a wrecking ball of sorts (how it's actually described in the book) to fling the soldier as a weapon against the Inquisitor.

What I meant here isn't how the power is obtained but their effects. Lashing alter how gravity applies to the thing Lashed, Steelpushes/Ironpulls are more kinetic than that. They are a new force being applied. F-Steel and F-Iron don't fit cleanly into this either. F-Steel is clearly not Abrasion and Brandon has said that F-Iron is not gravitational. I do understand where you are coming from with this theory though, my friend who introduced me into the Cosmere has a similar theory and he's made some very good points. I personally though think that the Surges are merely codifying and grouping similar interactions rather than being fundamental to the Cosmere themselves.

@BooknerdAon Omi creates a light and alters the emotions of anyone exposed to it making them calm and difficult to have negative emotions. It's similar to a Soothing

I disagree that the Surges are a fundamental part of the Cosmere. While they are based on fundamental forces, that doesn't make the Surges themselves fundamental. Your Steelpush doesn't work with Gravitation for example. The description of what a Steelpush is like is vastly different than how Lashings are described. It's more likely that Surges are merely how the magic system codifies its effects on physics

Here is the quote showing powerful Ironpulling. Also, there is no mention of the Inquisitor's muscles growing so it likely wasn't F-Pewter

The thing is, Inquisitors being listed as constructs rather than just beneficiaries on Hemalurgy tells us there is more to being an Inquisitor than just getting Spikes

Except HoA contradicts this

Few had Feruchemy until Ruin took control of them. In the first book when they raided Kredik Shaw, one Inquisitor was casually able to physically overpower Kelsier while paying attention to Vin, and then just a little later another Inquisitor easily overpowers her flared Pewter strength pulling her weapon from her grasp causing her to think "He's so strong" and that the force of his Ironpulls were stronger than Kelsier's had ever been. Are you suggesting that all of the Inquisitors in that situation were Mistborn? That whole scene shows that they were Allomantically powerful.

I never implied that level of strength. Those are Lord Ruler levels of power While their is definitely a threshold based on the descriptions we get from Vin's perspective, that threshold must be must be much higher than you think. Her first attempt to Sooth TenSoon failed completely, she didn't even notice resistance until she burned Duralumin and all that did was hurt TenSoon. When she took control of him later in her fight with Zane she still described it as a resistance that she had to do one massive Push of Duralumin and Brass to break through. As Duralumin was kept secret yet it was known that ancient Mistborn could control Kandra, so that implies a significant amount of greater power if it was difficult for Vin to do with Duralumin. Except the books imply that this is not the case. Inquisitors completely overwhelmed Kelsier and Vin in TFE when they raided the palace, Kelsier even described it as he was lucky that he got away after two of them broke off to follow Vin. Even later Kesier had great difficulty with his fight against Bendal, and while it is entirely possible that Bendal was a Mistborn before he became an Inquisitor there is no actual evidence of that. So the default assumption would be he was an average Inquisitor. There is more to Inquisitors than just gaining powers from Spikes. Throughout the entirety of Era 1, Inquisitors are viewed as a real threat. This is the case even before we find out they are getting new Feruchemical powers. At the beginning of HoA, Vin and Elend were still cautious against fighting a single Inquisitor despite both of them being stronger than the average Mistborn, knowing the Inquisitor's weakness, having killed Inquisitors before, and not knowing about them having Feruchemy which seems ridiculous if the average Inquisitor was weaker than the average Mistborn As I said with the Brass example, Lerasium Mistborn are described as being able to do something that was difficult for Vin with Duralumin. Also, while he was undoubtedly stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn because of his greater Connection to Preservation. The Lord Ruler was able to Soothe tens of thousands of people, which flabbergasted Breeze (the best Soother we know) who said at his best he could only do a couple hundred. A Lerasium Mistborn must be somewhere in between those two. Elend was able to take control of many thousands of them with a single Duralumin fueled Soothing

I look forward to it. I feel he embodies the Edgedancer ideal

Kaladin would probably hate it but he would do it without a second thought if it is explained to him that it would keep his soldiers safe

The thing is, we dont actually know what the force of a Steelpush is which muddies things. While we are told that it is weight against weight, we have plenty of examples from the books that shows that clearly isn't the whole story. Vin vs Kelsier, Elend vs the Iquisitor, Wax's ability to moderate his pushes, etc. It must be a fairly strong force too considering the things that we have seen Steelpushes do

While possibly true, the only real instances of people who have survived being hit by coins that we know of in the books are from someone burning Pewter

I'm just going to put my two clips in on the amount of force carried. A 9mm hits with about 5 to 6 times the force of an English longbow. Even a standard medieval crossbow hit with double the force of a longbow. A coin has repeatedly been shown to hit with enough force to instantly kill people which was rare even for an longbow unless it struck a super vital area. Now the average Mistborn doesn't push at the force of a bullet by any means, but I would assume that it's somewhere between a crossbow and bullet though I would guess crossbow would be closer.

At least a good chunk of TLR's power came from him being even more Connected to Preservation than a Lerasium Mistborn. His base power might have been as far above a Lerasium Mistborn as they are from a Vin era Mistborn

That's stretching by using HE as your argument. The person asked about Wax because he is the main character and gunslinger of the story. It was a hypothetical about Wax shooting a Plate bearer. But he didn't say anything about pushing on the bullet. What he DID say is that it would depend on the bullet and an argument could be made that a single shot could do it with the right shot, bullet, and moment. Again, nothing about him pushing the bullet

But he says nothing about Wax pushing on the bullets. He said Wax was the one firing because the questioner said Wax. There is no reason to assume that Brandon didn't mean bullets in general

This is actually a valid question that should be considered. Can Plate regenerate in a fight? With dead Plate it takes a while for Plate to regenerate even with Stormlight that's held in gems larger than broams. My guess is that living Plate would regenerate faster but I doubt that it would regrow fast enough to matter in a fight. That or impractical as it would probably use up a lot of the Radiants Stormlight reserves to grow it back

Brandon has said it only takes a couple bullets to break Plate. I'm not sure how much force a Steelpush has compared to a bullet. But metal objects that hit people with a Steelpush have often been instant kills, so they still provide a fair amount of force

I was using the Shardblade as an example. If Soulcasting a normal person is considered very difficult, a Mistborn would be even more so. Soulcasting them like that, even if possible without a super boost, would be impractical in a fight. As to Soulcasting the air around it. That is definitely a valid and good tactic. I personally assume though that Bronze would give some warning to that, though as I said, that is a personal belief. Atium would for sure see it coming. Aluminum cancels healing, but only if it stays in the wound. Though an aluminum knife to the brain would probably be an instant kill

The healing is exactly why. We've seen with Miles just how implacable supercharged healing can be in a fight. People keep giving that argument but I don't think it would work. Mistborn are innately Invested and Jasnah thinks to herself in Oathbringer that it's normally very difficult to Soulcast a normal person so Investiture interference would make it even harder. Like trying to Steelpush a Shardblade. She even comments to herself that he only reason she does it so easily in OB is because of the Perpendicularity that Dalinar created bringing all of the Realms together and the nigh limitless amount of Stormlight present in that situation.

There was never any doubt that Radiants would more often than not have the advantage. This thread had long since moved past the assumption that Mistborn were the most dangerous thing. Heck, back before the first Stormlight book was even written Brandon had said that without Atium, a Mistborn was less dangerous than a Feruchemist. The issue that this thread had evolved into is whether a Radiant would almost always win against a Mistborn. While I do believe more often than not a Radiant would have the advantage. I and others disagree that it is to the extent that some believe. As to your question about if the Radiant has access to the Surge of Gravitation and stays away, well that's simple. The Radiant would be using up their single fuel source for all their powers just to keep a distance. And attacking a Mistborn from a distance when they know where the attack is coming from wouldn't be all that effective. The Orders that I think would be most effective against a Mistborn would be Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Truthcallers, and potentially the Dustbringers

Something to consider while making debates