Aon Tia

Yes I know.. I just wanted to see Renarin do it first.. the normal truthwatcher thing and not just the future visions thing..

Yea and it irks me that she is the one who is getting to do the watching on-page instead of Renarin.... And it might also imply that Renarin has indeed one normal surge- progression and one corrupted surge- illumination, a theory that many here support and one that I, personally, do not like!

Yup I do think the one with the ship wreck might be from the present, Was their a highstorm when she had these visions..? It did not happen again in OB so I don’t know what’s up with those visions.. they are weird.. They seemed to be more of a truthwatcher type of thing to me so why is shallan seeing them!!

Do singers even have a heartbeat?

I don’t think that death rattle is referring to adonalsium’s Shattering at all but I still think that it is possible that some of the death rattles show past events.. like the one about “our homes become their homes” and “Why have you forsaken us almighty” there are few more. I think since these visions are fueled from spiritual realm where all time is one, retrocognition via death rattles should be possible. As to incidence of retro cognitive experiences, shallan has a few visions in words of radiance that might fit. For example the one about Shalash destroying her statue and the one about survivors from a ship wreck landing safely on shore.

Yes agree to disagree. Their clash did not create any part of the system but it created conditions that caused the existence of entities like the shades on the lesser continent and Evil on the greater continent of threnody.

@Honorless valid concerns but here is my reasoning for how it works.. I don’t think that that we will see the spren prior to forming the plate or after the plate is dismissed. Very similar to how we do not see the truespren before he is forming a shardblade. The lesser spren are attracted from the CR instantly form the plate and then when it is dismissed, poof, go back to CR instantly. All that should be visible is the plate itself and not the spren forming it. The bond already exists between the radiant and the truespren. I think the truespren act as the binding agents between the radiant and the lesser spren forming the plate. I don’t think a new bond is formed between the radiant and lesser spren for the formation of the plate. in the vision of Recreance, we see that the shardblade is discarded along with the plate immediately afterwards. The oath has been forsaken to the truespren rendering the spren a deadeye and consequently the Lesser spren were locked in shardplate form forever. I think these lesser spren are specific bunch of spren which have been attracted that first time the fourth ideal is spoken. They are summoned instantly By the side of the radiant the moment the plate is required to be formed just like in the case of deadeyes. Note that there are no “nearby secondary spren” in the Physical Realm. The confusion comes from windspren that are the only spren that are permanently in the PR. Other lesser spren like creationspren or lifespren are in the cognitive realm and will be summoned from there directly to the side of radiant when plate is being formed. So I think the plate is formed by specific lesser spren which are attracted once permanently at the time of swearing of the fourth ideal by the radiant. The same lesser spren will be manifesting each time to form the plate. I agree the shardplate is not as alive because the lesser spren are not sapient. Since, it is not as alive, it is not so much dead either. Your explanation works both ways according to me. Because the plate is not as dead, radiants do not hear the screams as they do with blades. And since the plate is not as dead, it can heal itself when fed investiture from gems or from the radiant directly as we have seen during the duel with kaladin wrapping the helmet around his wrist. I think shardplate is not dead, it is merely locked in that state forever because the truespren is dead.

I think it is about the shard and lose of investiture as a result. Well we don’t know what really happened here. How did they trap him? I think they somehow got him to form some pact with them resulting with him investing in the Rosharan system. Which he did because he wanted to change tactics and needed time to recuperate from his battle with ambition. I doubt this because at this point desolations are fights between honor’s and odium’s representatives and I do not think there was any very direct involvement of honor ir odium in these desolations other than providing infinite investiture to heralds and fused respectively. So, since the involvement was so minimal, in earlier desolations, I doubt that odium “broke” because he kept loosing in desolations. In fact, odium’s representatives are still very much with him continuing their fight(minus sja-anat) whereas Honor has had his heralds break their oaths to him again and again and again. Ultimately throwing away his oaths completely and bringing the oathpact to the brink of its death. So, if anyone was broken because of desolations, I think it was honor and not odium. Non-shard based yes, but loose investiture. I think Everything that is happening there is due to loose investiture from both odium and ambition running amok in the system. Although, I do think that this loose investiture constitutes more of ambition’s than odium’s but odium’s is there too. This loose investiture can also explain why a perpendicularity might appear on threnody sometimes but is unstable.

I think, in essence, I agree that odium is quite in a fix. He is definitely not going to fulfil his plan of being the only shard remaining, at this rate. He won the first few battles because he had the element of surprise at his side. I don’t think anyone thought that he would be able to take out both shards on Sel. Then he killed ambition and honor. But honor has very neatly trapped him on Roshar and Cultivation has already proven to be if not better at least his equal at this game they are playing. On top of that, we have odium that is already “the broken one” and we have wob that says since odium has settled on Roshar, this time he will find it difficult to leave, he might have to rip out himself off of Roshar and that might result in him loosing his investiture on Roshar. So, going forwards, he has to face whatever ascended version of honor Dalinar is and Cultivation. And even if he manages to get free, he would be loosing significant amounts of his investiture on Roshar. Also, I believe by now, other shards are better prepared for him. They have had a long long time to decide how to deal with odium if he ever showed up on their planet. Endowment’s “he will be dealt with” seems to imply as much. So, I agree with you @PrinceGenocide that Odium is screwed up.. Making everyone your enemy, basically not the best of the idea.

@Calderis Again please note that it is just a theory that I have and based on my reasoning I think it is very plausible. You may disagree. But I will put forth reasons for your arguments and how think they do not apply. And I think that if odium got injured, it has to do with his shard getting chipped off. What else can it be? Probably a few other things but Having his chips ripped off or having some of his investiture running loose, seems most likely to me. It is possible that the wound happened with dominion but it is equally possible that it was ambition. And we have Brandon saying that ambition went out swinging. Which makes me think it was ambition. Especially since immediately afterwards, on Roshar, we see, that odium drastically changed tactics. He decided to invest there, settle down even and he decided to take his time. Why? I think because with ambition he got really wounded, he is broken. With regard to your point on the impact does not require investiture: When we have two shards fighting and their conflict has impacted the system- I can only think of ripples of both their investiture having some effect on the system.. That is the way they have any impact via their investiture. As to the existence of shades, I do not think they would have existed even if there was no fight between the two shards. We have no evidence to suggest that. The whole essay itself implies that everything that is happening there is due to the fact that it is a site of ancient shardic battle. Brandon is not at all saying in that wob that shades are a result of magic system, nor has he said that it is ambitions magic. I am saying it seems to be odiums magic. Regarding the extra investiture, Khriss very specifically talking about shades there. She begins the para with “let me tell you what is magically happening with shades on threnody”.

first of all that is not the entire quote. Let me quote it here: So please note that -Khriss mentions that two shards and their conflict had profound impact on threnody system. She is including Odium. - we have confirmation that ambition went out swinging - odium is called broken one which implies that he lost chunks of himself too. - Khriss has put a caveat here, this judgement is not based on her own observations but the records provided by Nazh. Why Brandon put this caveat here, if it is the final answer? - and I think this observation is for the Evil and not the shades. Because she immediately talks about Evil after this observation. She, in fact, has visited the smaller continent once, and says this about shades this: So, again regarding the shades specifically, words only “extra investiture” is mentioned and not ambitions investiture. and again Khriss has said this deserves more research. So, nothing is as final and confirmed about the shades in the essay as you seem to suggest @Calderis. And I again stress that it is too big a coincidence that wherever odium goes, we have people who did not pass onto the beyond, became CS and troubled the living..

It is not so different as I see it. I think he invested a little on Sel and threnody as well. But how little? He can create svrakiss on Sel by merely investing in some people and he need not be investing on the planet at all.. on threnody, it works in a similar way. But I think something more happened there. I believe the fight between the two caused small pieces from the shards to rip away from them and fall into the system infusing threnody with their investiture. Which is causing more and more shades in getting formed even today..

First one Rshara.. I and others interpret it as odium has invested on all planets he has visited but never left any investiture behind.. threnody I think shades still exist because odium has a fight and some pieces were ripped away causing him to withdraw quickly.. leaving shades behind..

I have already posted the wobs.. please go through them.. I have also posted the wob regarding settling already. Settling Long term as he has on Roshar is very different from temporarily investing On Sel and threnody and then withdrawing while leaving. He never let himself permeate the entire system before as he has on Roshar.

We have wob that points out that he invested on all the planets that he went killing shards but he did not leave any investiture behind on Sel.. @PrinceGenocide it was actually other way around. He went looking for ambition, could not find her and then went to Sel killed DnD first then went to threnody system where they had a fight somewhere in the system in between the planets. But I do agree with you in that I think he is called the broken one. I think he was wounded a little and a few splinters fell of and waves of his and ambitions investiture has infected that whole system. the third wob I mentioned in the original post makes me think that may be on threnody, he invested, formed shades but it took him longer than he anticipated in defeating ambition and by the time he left, he had to rip himself off of threnody, as a result shades and the investiture that caused new shades to be created got left behind..

Veil?

Hmm.. Yes that is why I think that the svrakiss are just myths in today’s Jaddeth empire but they used to exist millennia ago when odium had invested. Only their stories are left today.

Ok guys.. I have an out-there idea that I think Odium has been investing on all Planets that he goes to kill shards and he creates Cognitive Shadows by investing in them, imbibing them with hatred and uses them as his minions to help him in his fight against other shards.. So far, we know that Odium has visited Sel(where he killed Aona and Skai), Threnody system(which is the site of shardic altercation between odium and ambition) and right now, he is trapped on Roshar where he has already killed Tanavast and his shard has been shattered. On Roshar, Odium has created Fused that are cognitive shadows that do not pass on to the beyond when they die, instead they return and take up a new body and on and on it goes.. Some of these fused have lost their minds and most of them are so invested with Odium’s intent that they understand nothing but hatred towards human. Fused only wish to win this war and finally, be able to rest by passing onto beyond. Given that there are wobs that say that Odium has invested on all the planets he visited briefly to kill these shards like he has on the Rosharan System: I find it a great coincidence that Odium visited Threnody system and fought with Ambition here and we have Shades on Threnody which are actually people who die and can not pass onto the beyond. Their actions are also very odium-y. So, I think that it is a possibility that these shades are actually a result of an earlier version of the experiment that Odium did on Threnody which was later was greatly improved upon in Roshar. Further, on Sel also we have legends of Svarkiss which says that these are half ghost and half demons. Shu-dereth faith says that these are souls of men barred from entrance into heaven and are condemned to wander Sel, bitterly cursing their fate(very odium-y) and prey on humans. It is also believed that they have the ability to take over the body of living and control their actions, again very similar to how Fused work on Roshar. Although, I think that Odium withdrew his investiture from these Svarkiss and they no longer exist and are mere myth today in the Jaddeth Empire.. Just as he has promised The Fused that they will be allowed to pass on once they win. Millennia later, on Roshar, Fused also would be nothing more than such a myth.

I do think that lesser spren might have something to do with shardplates.. seeing as kaladin was surrounded by windspren every time syl said he was close to swearing the 4th ideal. Also, syl likes when kal attracts windspren but gets jealous with gloryspren Yes so far the ones that we have seen.. windrunners - windspren, lightweavers -creationspren, elsecallers - logicspren, Edgedancers- lifespren, bondsmith atleast the stormfather one - gloryspren, dustbringers - smokespren, willshapers - swiftspren

Dockson?

RAFO actually suggests that it might be something we learn about as Cosmere progresses..I like the idea of god beyond being some other shard ..

Also similar questions have been RAFOed

Yes I agree. I checked: WHAT????!!! Brandon Sanderson Roshar predates the Shattering. I've spoken of this before, haven't I? NotOJebus Maybe somewhere before, and obviously most planets existed before the shattering (Planets are pretty old) but I don't think you've ever mentioned Roshar (the continent) being specifically grown by Adonalsium. Is this a normal thing that Adonalsium did or was Roshar special to him in some way? A quick search reveals that you have mentioned that Roshar was named Roshar before the Shattering but nothing mentioned about it being grown by Adonalsium. It makes sense though, that shape is obviously not natural. Brandon Sanderson There are many things that are unique about Roshar, but it wasn't the only world created in this way.

Is it confirmed? I thought Roshar is special because it was the one he designed..

Yes but I think it requires a hack like using stormlight instead of breath and there should be easier ways to do it.. although he might want to change the source so that he can directly feed the user of Honorblade with unending supply. This way they can circumvent the problem of inefficiency of honorblades