Aon Tia

They seem biologically derived as in that they could have been biologically pruned or cultivated in this manner to provide them their abilities. We do know that they are refugees on Roshar from wobs but we do not know if they were like this when they came or they have been modified later. Also this fact does not necessarily rules out their being cultivation’s agents and using her magic system after coming to Roshar.

Thank you @Greywatch I agree with your viewpoint as well. All these games and banter is ok as a first step of attraction but eventually the relationship between a possible couple should progress to mutual respect and deep attachment to one another. I do not see either between Kaladin and shallan.

This got me thinking on sleepers.. do you thing they are using a more cultivation based form of magic. The sleepers could be cultivation’ Agents..

Her converting food into stormlight could be how cultivation magic system will allow access to surges. I don’t think lift is using cultivation system but a mix of both cultivation and honor. So she metabolises food which is very cultivationy to me and still needs a nahel bond and oaths to progress. Lifts spiritweb has been cut grafted and pruned. How else is she doing all these weird things that she does?

Yes but Brandon also has said that she will surprise you guys in how quickly she would come upto speed on all the Cosmere stuff.

I think Gavilar might have come across his name but I doubt he knew much.. and I would think that all heralds were aware of Adonalsium. Ash who is the youngest says “Oh god Oh Adonalsium” then others would know too right? Is there any wob that suggests otherwise? also don’t forget stone shamans in shinovar and do you think they know of Adonalsium- I would think so.

Good point. I think if lift were to glow green then that would make her too obvious a target for odium as cultivation’s agent.

Yes there can be many scenarios in Cosmere where invisibility will not come across as too OP.

Ok guys. Regarding the love triangle and how it was handled... I think it was nicely set up in wor with the intro of Kaladin and shallan, their banter and chasm scene opposite the easy way Adolin and shallan begin to get along and then there is your typical competition that is brewing between Adolin and Kaladin which is usually made even more high stakes in a love triangle situation. Add to that the fact that no kal and shallan are radiants, we had a very possibility that it could be something more. At the end of wor, shallan had not shown much interest in Kaladin because he was darkeyes. So I had expected that to change when Adolin told her that kal was a KR. I was expecting things to go in this manner. I was not really happy with the idea because Adolin and kal had barely started to like each other and would have hated shallan to ruin their budding friendship or respect for each other but then OB started. And I realised that shallan seems to not really care about kal being a windrunner. She is determined to call him bridgeboy and pays zero attention to him. In fact one scene clearly indicates that she thinks of him as a darkeyes and nothing more than a peasant, basically. My hopes for anything kal and shallan had plummeted right there. There was also that opportunity where kal and shallan were going to theylenah to open the oathgate and I had thought may be some development will happen here. But nope, it was all off-page. And then Kholinar happened, suddenly shallan decided that veil liked him and not shallan. I think it is a lie, a typical shallan diverting her problems into her other personas. Kaladin is also attracted to her but there has never been any occasion where I felt that there was any real depth to it either. As to “she reminded my of Tien that’s it” well since she clearly chose Adolin, what else is Kaladin supposed to say.. Overall, I feel that somewhere down the line, Brandon decided against the triangle arc and deliberately chose not to take it up properly either due to lack of space or due to lack of commitment. At the end, poorly done or not, I like the way it was resolved. I do not like Kaladin with shallan and I did not want there to be any rivalry or bitterness between Adolin and Kaladin. In fact, out of the three, I care more about Adolin and kaladin’s Friendship and am glad that it was not ruined. In the end, I am just glad that it was over and I hope it remains so. I hope Kaladin finds someone else who will give him the commitment and respect that he needs.

I have no doubts about adolin’s commitment. He deeply cares about her, loves her, defends her and dotes in her. He learns to deal with his insecurities with regard to her being radiant on his own. It is not even something she had to deal with. And then he ensured that she learnt to fight using her shardblade.. He has not shown any interest in any other women ever since shallan.. Exactly.. this is my concern too.. I worry for Adolin in this relationship more. I doubt that shallan is capable of dealing with a marriage currently. I am right there with you on this. Yes she knows.. and she has resolved to try to do better at the end of OB too. But my doubts are that While she might try, she may not succeed. As we know, she has some real, very real traumas in her past and they are not easy to deal with. but I think Kaladin would have helped her and would have done that for her if she had ever really cared to show her vulnerability to him. She never really showed him her broken side, her struggles and her weaknesses. Agreed. I fail to remember any such moments when she really showed her care for him in a deeply meaningful way.. @ILuvHats please suggest any that you think fits. Because I really like Adolin and want him to work his marriage out!

Yup I agree to all of this.. Shallan and her mental space is much more messed up than I had realised earlier.. Personally, I think instead of getting better, to me it feels like she is degrading with each book. To the point, that I have serious concerns if she really will be able to pull through all of her problems and if she really can combine all of her personas.. It greatly disturbs me that she suppresses so many things not only from her childhood but recent events.. She never processed what she learnt about helaran, her brother and how he died at the hands of Kaladin, she never confronted her failures as veil in Kholinar and she seems to have suppressed the whole member of the ghostbloods thing too using veil which is extremely dangerous and stupid on her part. I think soon she will realise like she had in twok, that she should have gone to Jasnah about the ghostbloods. Jasnah probably hates them after all they tried to kill her but she is too smart to understand the importance of a spy in their ranks that she might actually be a great help to shallan in this regard. Shallan and her whole arc has been very difficult to read for me in OB because she really regresses in OB once Jasnah comes back. In Wor, she had taken up the mantle of leadership and had such great achievements.. I, for one, would have never thought she would reveal to Dalinar about being a radiant. That was real character growth for her. But in OB, she is just trying to avoid her responsibilities, instead trying to be a spy, learning to drink.. So, while Kaladin and shallan shared a moment, a real powerful and intimate moment, I never saw it heading anyway especially since we saw that shallan was determined to suppress it all. Other than that, Kaladin might find her method for coping interesting but I think he would have soon realised that it is not his cup of tea. He can not and will not run away from his responsibilities. They are incompatible at a very basic level. I also have sincere concerns regarding her relationship with Adolin too but for his sake, I hope it works out. But apart from the fact that she thinks he is very handsome and good-natured kind man, I have not seen any real deep feelings for him either. More than anything, I think she just fell in love with the idea of marrying into Kholin family- an Alethi royalty, even though of course she has no aspirations to become a queen because responsibilities....

I think that Hoid might have sensed that dalinar has become a potential bondsmith of stormfather and thus a potential vessel for honor. Also, we know that Gavilar was very Cosmere aware at the time of his death. So, I think he was testing dalinar to see just how much Gavilar had confided in him.. if he too was part of sons of honor.. He had also heard about his visions during the storms and probably knew they are from Honor and was thus curious to see if dalinar has learnt anything about Adonalsium during these visions!

Yup I like that explanation.. makes a lot of sense.. thank you @Calderis

May be he is doing something new entirely.. that has been said too in the books.. we are something new.. it may be some weird mix of the two systems.. There has to be a reason why odium can not see him.. He can see all other normal surgebinders, he would obviously see all voidbinders but if Renarin is something new entirely....

But Calderis, it is not as clear as you are making it. When asked directly if Renarin was voidbinding, Brandon said no but close.. something weird is happening.. that suggests to me that it is not so clear..

We don’t know anything about the Evil.. so my presumption is as good as yours..

So lift is not a cultivationlight radiant but she a prototype version of what a cultivationlight radiant would look like..

And that said, it was more shallan saving him than vice versa.. However, my main issue with their relationship was always that out of the chasm, shallan has gone out of her way to push Kaladin away.. She has not, that we have seen from her povs, unlike Kaladin, given a moments thought to the time they spent together and things they revealed to each other.. She had very successfully pushed all of that to the depths of her mind. Even veil was not interested in him due to any special connection felt out of their time spent together but was merely interested in Kaladin because she found him interesting, handsome, a little dangerous and found teasing him fun.. not good qualities for a ship.. Shallan has always been determined to make herself a socially uplifting match in Adolin (he is so likeable and handsome too) but although Kaladin has already uplifted himself as a radiant even above Adolin in social heirarachy, Shallan found it difficult to see Kaladin as anything else but a darkeyes..

Difficult but not impossible.. and I still believe that when singers have forms of power like smokeform where “they can hide and slip between men” which sounds very much like invisibility, it would be useful to have the same on our side too. @Pathfinder yes, bending the light so it is allowed to follow the trajectory as if there was no object in the way rendering lightweaver invisible is what I had in mind too.. I think it would be much easier and simple intent wise then to put illusion matching your surroundings.. But that can work too..

I would say that szeth’s healing by Nale using regrow this itself proves that regrow this can heal even shard wounds in someone who is not a radiant.. We have no reason to think that the regrow this fabrial is inferior to the surge of progression.. Also, we have soulcasters that can convert anything into anything, as shallan has mentioned them, so they can work as well as a radiant using surge of transformation..

May be a fifth level lightweaver can do it more easily..

This is very well written.. I like the theory regarding cultivationlight and What lift is doing.. It makes so much sense than somehow she is metabolising food into stormlight. But cultivationlight could totally work in this manner.. Also explains why she has not been able to suck in stormlight.. How does fabrial system of magic goes with what we know of cultivation’s intent? For one, as the OP has said, it does not require any oaths.. so it is not honory. Old fabrials especially are about cultivating a bond between the spren and magic to get the desired result?

Agreed.. There is no this is “not-like radiant” quality.. This whole system based on oaths has been designed by honor’s intent and I don’t think he is necessarily good.. Almost anyone with the right kind of interpretation to their actions can become eligible for radiantness.. Foremost, I want to see a deadeye get revived again. What will that require, what will that lead to.. I don’t particularly care for it to be Adolin but if that is what it takes as events in OB suggest, Adolin becoming KR or a near cousin KR, then I will take it.

I will have to agree with all of this.. you are a lightweaver? Nice.. Feel free to take some soul casting lessons from this elsecaller..

I think he will lose them..