Aon Tia

Yes willshaper sounds about right for her!

I just don’t see the pressure on Kaladin to get married the way you do! Dalinar was a highprince of a fledgling kingdom who saw to gain a shardplate through marriage. I just don’t see Kaladin needing to get a women clerk to do the reports as an equally compelling reason for him to marry. It is not necessary that what Alethi lighteyes Do is the same as what Alethi darkeyes do too. Alethi Nobility often goes for political arranged marriages but I am not sure that in the darkeye culture it is the same or Kaladin will see it as the same. A lot of time has passed too between then and now !

Do you think Rysn will ever become a Radiant?

That is a very very sad way to look at it. I think if this the direction it is going to go, i would then have to agree with @Honorless and have him unattached. it just reminded me of Dalinar when he married Evi. It may be me alone, but, i fail to see the supposed pressure on Kaladin to marry! Windrunners, i am sure, have hired some female clerks for the correspondences and reports by the time book 4 starts. I also fail to see where he has shown any disappointments with women!

Shattered plains are vast, we know they taper off around the eastern edges, Listeners are not killed when left outside during Highstorms. The interlude when they run away took place when, just last or last 2 highstorms were left before weeping started. Assuming that 1 highstorm comes after every 12 days on an average. We know that Weeping is nearly 4 weeks long period, So by the time both the storms clash, i think that thude and his group of listeners have been on the run for a significant period of time. They could have reached someplace far away that they have not been found around the shattered plains.

I would be very surprised if they are found off-page or they are dead! Especially when we have had Rlain's and venli's pov where they are so sad and worried and guilty (Venli) and both of them think that they are probably the last listener alive/left. Rlain specifically wondered about the children! The group of non combatants have lived in and around the shattered plains all their lives,

Sazed?

Dear friends @PrinceGenocide @Honorless @FictionSpren @Knight of Iron and the ookla cousins I am indeed very lucky to have found my way out of that horrid place! Imagine my surprise to have slept after wearing this new bracelet that my Ferring friends had given me and to wake up and find myself as the king of ..... I can not even bring myself to say it! It took me little time though to figure out what had brought on this series of unfortunate events! while I was so struck, I thought why not use this opportunity and have some fun with it while we are at it! Having caused this single biggest diplomatic disaster for the fjordell, I shall join you all in the upcoming war with the empire. It has been a long time coming. Do not worry, I filed my metalmind and brought all the bad luck upon the fjordell and I shall be tapping my metalmind standing alongside you my friends.

There are more than one way a person can be aggressive. The only determining factor is not if a person is showing the emotional state or not. He is obviously very good at pretending! He can control his physical actions and facial expressions, he smiles, he talks sweetly but that alone does not mean he is not aggressive. His overall actions suggest otherwise. I agree this system is broken and I think we are heading towards aliens realising that! Mourimour and his story itself proves that hoping to create same individuals with same traits is less successful. We should welcome differences between people, we should allow difference of opinion! There is no prescribed solution to every problem.

Aggression should not be seen as merely the capacity or ability to throw punches at someone! By your own definition, he is ready to attack, he attacked without giving warning, without even knowing if he could control the weapon or not! Delvers are certainly much more powerful than our nuclear weapons! He has committed an act of single handedly starting a nuclear war in the galaxy : AGGRESSIVE!!!! And very RASH behaviour! without even taking any approvals for that ! if he is so convinced that he is so right, then why not take approval! Why try to blame it on humans! I think what he is doing is aggressive! It can not be considered passive at all. He is being very ambitious also, all in the name of “greater good” of course! Very convenient! I think his proximity to humans and especially brade has caused him to learn their aggressive ways instead of brade learning his passive ways. He has a deep hatred of humanity and is willing to do anything to satisfy it! He conducted a coup! I am sure any civilisation under every law morals or ethics in any time place or planet would consider a military coup to be a very aggressive action. He thinks only he knows best! No one else in the 6 species having attained primary intelligence would know better way to deal with humans! Very aggressive again! He had planned to cause a planet wide extinction of humans before giving peace a seconds thought, that is very aggressive. Very convenient but very non convincing argument! Humans are not sapient to him!? Still, a human is his main ally and only hope of a. Summoning a delver and b. Controlling a delver! So, either they are capable sapient beings or they are not! You can not pick and chose among humans that my human is ok but all these rest are toast. Because I decided it so! For all we know, he has been developing this crazy really rash idea for a long time with a bifocal agenda of - annihilation of humans and aggrandisement of power to self and self own! Hello! Shards of odium and ambition!! Have you by chance left Cosmere and found your way to Winzik!! the very reason he ever adopted brade is so that he could do this! Honestly, I would love him to be exposed and his entire alien race to be put on probation to prove that they have even achieved primary intelligence or not!

Yup I can not open your profile either.

Zahel?

Once he took the money and faked the bequest, there really was no option left to him but to keep insisting that it was true and keep the money. He could not confess later to forgery that would have gotten him killed and his sons would have ended up in slavery! Tien was young still and it is possible that once he grew up and they had money to spare from kaladin’s practise, they would have sent him to some bigger artisan in town for apprenticeship. I see nowhere that Lirin is being dismissive of kaladin. He was very glad that kaladin had survived. Of course kaladin was a soldier Lirin knows that! He does not approve but he knows kal made the best of a bad situation. He tries to protect him even when Kal has Shash brand. And when he realised that kaladin was a radiant then he had looked at him in awe. Laral may be a light eyes but she does not have a very high dahn, her lands do not amount to much wealth and her estate is considered poor by Roshone also. I do not think she had a lot of good options for marriage. Roshone also had no other option for his son due to his shameful dismissal. If he had options he would not have looked to Laral. So, it was mere happenstance that Laral found herself with options that originally she never had. I think knowing Kaladin as he is, he would never have settled in some big fancy town and become one more doctor in a city full of doctors, He as we know him, would most certainly have either come back to hearthstone or would have settled in a similar small place where he could actually save people who due to lack of a surgeon would have otherwise died. I think from his behaviour and anguish towards Lirin, it is quite clear that he expected to have full control of that money. An oversight on their part! Does not mean he did not care for Tien. Also, he did make the same mistake with his golden boy! He did lose him too. He was very clearly outsmarted! And the law was changed! The age of drafting lowered, how was he supposed to know!

Noorden?

That could point to Szeth! But that is very odd ! Did they know about Szeth ? How? Can they sense honorblades?

I do not remember this mention made by Eshonai of leaving an honorblade back in Kholinar. But interesting. I always thought that Hoid did something with the honorblade. May be he took it on the journey to shattered plains and left in its place a deadeye Shardblade. So, no suspicion can come on him.

Ok between Rand or Perrin or Mat I will chose Mat, besides Rand is already more than booked in that department and who would want to deal with Faile. I agree with your choice of Elayne too @Honorless Would you rather be a Reshi Islander or Iriali citizen?

The journey through the delvers maze made, at many times, Spensa think of caverns back at detritus. Many times, she felt that what she is seeing was a projection of a real cave back home. She also sees the same alien language in the delvers maze which is found in caves back at detritus. Also many of the caves are like a maze back at detritus, people have been known to loose their way in them. Many caves have not even been discovered or fully explored. so, what if the homeworld of Spensa, detritus is actually built upon a Delver corpse. Humans were trying to control delvers, already the delver maze is possibly a delver corpse that belonged to humans, so is it possible that humans killed delvers? Or they simply happened upon their corpses. A world had naturally formed on top of such a corpse? Detritus? The word Detritus also means “organic matter formed from decomposition of organisms” in this case, the planet has been created from the decomposition of a delvers corpse. We have no proof that humans ever actually lived on the surface of the planet or many humans lived inside the caverns. It is possible that they created the platforms around the planet and lived on the platforms exclusively as much as was possible. But the planet was very important to them because it gave them access to Taynix ie slugs and nowhere portals to create acclivity rings. The planet was a big manufactory for humanity’s war effort.

A friend recently pointed this out to me and I think it is very interesting: This excerpt shows that Spensa can hear the same hum that she hears from the stars aka the delvers. It indicates that delvers and AI are related indeed. Already there are theories of how humans might have created delvers as AI that then went very bad and humans own creation turned against them, while I like that but another possibility comes to mind, what if, it was the other way round. Delvers if you think about it act very computer programming like. They have a central cpu unit- the heart, where the main brain is, and they project all types of illusions and threats to protect themselves from outer threats, creating holograms as illusions and making humans feel fear is something that an advanced cytonic computer program can accomplish. They also have very little understanding of feelings and emotions! Very AI type. We also know that humans tried to use delvers as a weapon against others. What if, they did more than that. What if it is the other way round. What if, delvers always existed but humans used the knowledge they acquired from them to create AIs like m-bot? He is very advanced level AI and no other species has anything near that level. Some of the stealth technology may have come from figments but the actual CPU, the actual programming, what if they created by learning from delvers? Also, I am very curious to know what change will come in M-bot from entering in the nowhere? Is he going to grow there somehow? He already worked faster near the portal, what would happen to him inside the nowhere itself? What will come out?

I agree with you here completely. I was planning on starting a theory about this but I could not have put it in a better way! I really think the whole conversation about “if an AI is able to fly around on his own and can replicate itself, would humans be scared of it”, “would Spensa be scared of M-bot?” felt very ominous. Also, the last thing he said to her is that I am upset, very upset, you had abandoned me! There relationship is on the verge of breaking here and I don’t think Spensa realises how serious the situation is! @Ooklidean Geometry I like the idea of Delvers being AI and some other extinct species might have created them or humans might have created them, that would certainly explain why AI is considered so dangerous. There is no indication of AI attracting Delvers attention otherwise so, there has to be some other reason. And yours seem to be as good as anything else we are likely to come up with. One more thing that I am concerned about is if this journey through the nowhere is going to effect M-bot in any way? Is it possible that when he reaches the nowhere, he will attract their attention in a rather bad way or he is going to come out much changed? already he could function more quickly merely in the presence of a nowhere portal, what will happen to his functioning capabilities if he were to enter the nowhere itself. Do you think he will grow ?

New Seran?

I just want to say that I think that out of all, Winzik is the biggest fraud! He prattles on and on about how his species has attained primary intelligence and are, therefore, not aggressive or destructive and therefore alone deserve the FTL technology. Well, clearly all his actions, from trying to eliminate the “human scrounge” permanently to creating a force of lesser species to the first test using live fire to summoning the delvers and planning to use them as a proverbial gun on every species heads to then using it to destroy humans to the military coup!! All these actions are very aggressive and the products of an extremely rash, destructive and dangerous mind! All the things that “primary intelligence levels” reached by your species should have made impossible for you to be! Therefore, winzik, you are a big fraud and the whole primary intelligence system of yours is fraudulent. Any views guys, please share.

I have voted for starsight because following up on a first book is always more difficult and I think this book 2 was done very well.

Finished starsight just now. At the outset I have to say that it was a good book, a lot happened that I had not expected. I did not expect so much to have changed on detritus, humans have made a lot of progress, fighting with krell now happens in deep space, they have platform nine, they are able to get more acclivity rings! I also did not expect Spensa to go to starsight or that starsight will be an alien city! I loved reading about all the different alien species and the different factions of power and their views on humans. Loved the diones, kitsen, figments!! I can not believed we already learned what had happened to deteritus how it was destroyed by the Delvers! we got see a delver maze and then a real delver! And guess what they are not hateful creatures at all! The doomslug bit was obvious the moment we heard of that scream and I think it could have been done sooner! I have always believed that Jorgen will be cytonic too his family The science wing had mutinied with the engine crew I am glad we saw progress there. I am glad that Cuba was genuine and brade was bad news from the start but it ended at such a cliffhanger! When is the next book coming!! - where is Spensa heading, what will she find there! How will she get out! - what is happened to m-bot!! I hope he will be fine! - I hope Cuna makes it safely to Detritus and humans will have allies in diones, kitsen, figments and alanik’s people atleast - what of Jorgen and he found all those slugs! - and what will happen to mbot - an AI once he goes into the nowhere! It is really very ironic that the krell or I think they are Varvex claim to have achieved the primary intelligence and yet they act so aggressive and stupid as to fight with humans without giving them a chance at peace even, summoning a delver knowing the history, organising a military coup!! It is all pure nonsense after all! Ha!! You sir, winzig, are as aggressive as they come!

I know... it is a very steep target! And what if he reached 95% what then!!