Salmon Meerkat

I don't take the vote manip argument. I never have. It looked plausible to me before the Rioter claimed but I always felt the action just made no sense. That any claimed Lurcher should have felt suspicion at an unknown alignment Mistborn scan and self-protected. Especially considering what Fifth did to Bard in LG74. You are a Village power role. It's strange they never sought to use your Lurches. Strange they didn't immediately kill you either. Hyena could always find another Villager to tie himself to. If you felt the kill was going to be low info, then why not get Hyena to Lurch another such player? Either way it makes no sense. The best explanation to me is that you're both Evil.

To say a bit more, it's not my problem if you guys haven't run a Tyrian game before and had to break your head over Emotional Allomancy. In fact, I recommend @ing @Fifth Scholar because he has the best reactions about Emotional Allomancy interactions

I have two individually plausible Riot claims that match with the tally. There is no contradiction, so no reason to doubt imo.

Last Stuff for the Night: - Remember to keep discussion broad ; pursue multiple lines of inquiry, don't just tunnel. In my view, the arguments for Hyena and Falcon are more clearcut. But narrow discussion and discussion bottlenecks are death for the Village. - Keep suspicions fluid; be ready to update your beliefs to include new info. This includes re-assessing previous days given Hyena's and Falcon's flips and whoever dies (presumably me.) -Don't get complacent. One of the previous Meerkats was a busser who managed to win as a lone Elim. Even with two Elims (hopefully three) down, we cannot afford to let our guard down. We have to play this right if we want to be the first generation to break the curse. This is worth one kel's life =) We all seek to change the future in some way. I think we might actually have a shot at doing so. O7

There must be, since it doesn't happen for me. RIP Axl, what did the Axl before you do?

i'm so happy to see someone talk about conditionals here u r my new favourite person of n4

this is an absolute disgrace u r best conversation partner i do not understand y they r like this

Housekeeping: This note has multiple sections, including information I've received and anonymised for passing on as I believe the Village benefits from more information shared responsibly. I also don't want the info to die with me. And I think Vulture was right to warn me of that trap. As a result: First, here are the anonymised action claims. We do have a successful Seek that took place N3 and sat on the results so as not to derail from Hyena's lynch. While it is theoretically possible to have multiple Mistborn on the Elim team (speculate two; then again, El and Fifth kind of made everyone Mistborn before, and AG3 had three on a team - mark as outside possibilities but not technically impossible!) - the player's behaviour, interaction with them in PMs, actions accountability, cooperativeness, and ability to identify a secret code in one of the Tineye messages of N1 all jointly point in one direction: I deem this sufficiently strong reason to consider them Village Mistborn, and they drew Bronze N3, and scanned a player. Unfortunately (though by no means shabby!) this was a Village scan - we continue to sit on the results for now as the scanned player has not indicated they are okay with the results going live, and of course we will withhold their role (note that I consider 'Regular' a role as well.) In any case, here are the anonymised action claims: The corollaries are: D1 & D3 Cham was not Smoked (for any Smoked Rioter theories and so on), D2 Azure Mouse was not Smoked. I suspect the fourth D1 Tineye message was sent by Hyena but cannot confirm this - just based off a bit of a signature RP similarity but could be wrong. If that's true, then we have one last Tineye message that's unaccounted for, which could definitely have been sent by someone who went inactive later on, or as Vulture reminded me, some people just don't get their jollies out of Tineye message trolling I caution that Lurcher #1 seems on the level to me so far but it's important not to fall into the trap that the Elim team could only have one Lurcher. This will depend on information about the distribution of Village and Evil Mistborn, and other protective roles, though two Lurchers does seem a bit much even with an active (presumably Village) Coinshot. New Village Info-Structures: As Vulture pointed out to me, succession planning is not something I do very often; I tend to prefer to just die with information rather than have it pass into the wrong hands. This, however, is not always the best approach. Last Night, I designated Vulture and Swan as the Village contact points, noting I've had strong reason by my lights to consider them Village. Action claims from players who don't wish to out themselves in thread and so on went to them, so I wouldn't die with the information. Swan continues to be one of my strongest Village reads, and I'm gratified that my read of Vulture was validated by his flip. Anything I know, they know, and I've alerted my contacts to make contact with whichever of the two they trust more. Tonight, since I've had to update the list, Swan and Penguin are now the two Village contact points, and I've formalised the move after Hyena's flip, as Hyena's flip validates in my view my trust and read of Penguin. Again, should for some reason PMs remain open after my death, you will want to approach whichever of the two of them most has your trust. I'm well aware of how much players love to abuse El's Confirmed Good =/= Confirmed Right, most often Elim Fifth when we're crossing blades I'm just going to say this: I do make mistakes. But I am also a very paranoid player and very, very careful with who I annoint into any position of informational trust and responsibility. In my view, the case for Swan and the case for Penguin are both very strong - some of which is due to information I can't share with the thread. Should I die, and should one of them die, I urge them to consider who their successor might be and to be really freakin' careful okay guys because I will get up from my grave to haunt you if after all my paranoid work of extreme vetting, you just up and hand over to a freakin' Spiked I MEAN IT I WILL HAUNT U FROM MY GRAVE >:( Ahem. Current Reads List: I want to briefly offer a picture of my current reads, which should be treated as a rough snapshot of things at the time of my death - well, N4, but I'm expecting the NK to come for me tonight, so As I'm taking time off the game to recover, a fair complaint is that my reads list has not been sufficiently updated to account for new information, especially with regard to Swan, Axl, and Heron (Heron's reads, for instance, seem a bit sketchy to me.) But that's okay. I'm recovering and chilling I don't know if I have the time, the mental space, and the bandwidth to do vote analysis and to update my reads list on that basis. If I can, I will, but if not, I flag these limitations to you RADIANT [=STRONG VILLAGE] SQUIRE [=MODERATE VILLAGE] BRIDGEMAN [=LIGHT VILLAGE READ] NULL+ CHULL [=NULL] NULL- VOIDBRINGER [=LIGHT ELIM] SPIKED For anything about CHULL/NULL, if I don't explicitly state re-assess, I believe the read is substantially robust for the moment. All the best, Team Village. See you on the other side. Edited to add: I often edit my reads list live because sometimes no matter how rationally I should put a player in a certain category, they just don't feel right there to me. I think the voting data implies I should rationally put Zebra into Bridgeman but I honestly don't feel that great about putting Zebra there all the same. I forgot to do the deletion - probably because I was hoping I'd find someone I'm happy to put into Bridgeman but I guess it's an unpopulated category today. Final decision: Null+ for Zebra, probably borderline with Bridgeman. Has that good vote, and while Hyena suggestion is too risk-taking for my heart to handle, I feel that it comes from a Villager mindset rather than an Evil mindset, but... Yeah, you can see why they're a null+ for me. I'd explicitly mark Albatross as worthy of a rethink, because they have two votes I continue to find puzzling, if not actively - eh. The D1 vote which diluted some of the lynch impact off Gorilla still sticks out to me, and there's the D3 vote which comes at a point where Gorilla might have already been bussed. Again - I'm not for rolelynching but especially with what we now know about the distro, Albatross comes back to mind as one of the players I don't feel comfortable promoting so high. I suppose I'd be happy to dump Albatross for the moment in Bridgeman, so the category at least exists for a reason, and mark Re-Assess once Falcon flips. Would also flag Albatross as a decent Coinshot target - two ? votes and getting a better D1 picture may not be too terrible a reason.

not u man im pursuing this line of inquiry under the assumption u r vil i get what u say about u being frustrated when vil if village doesn't take u srsly so im trying to open some discussion into cham even tho i do think the balance of evidence points to evil falcon (sorry) my point specifically: most of the falcon pushers i have good reason to believe are vil. vil falcon flip doesn't change that. but i know i have reports from some players that cham has been messaging a number of players telling them that u tried to rolephish from him so my qn is, if u flip vil, was cham trying to massage or shape public opinion about u? b/c we know if u flip vil that hyena was trying 2 tie himself 2 u to get u mislynched it seems consistent with that strategy that a teammate might try to stoke more fires by painting u as sus e.g. messaging certain active players specifically talking abt u trying to rolephish him does that make my line of thought clearer?

u r u r ty this is v helpful village pts 2 u for the record gaiz trying to get an indication of the spread of the falcon role phishing stories im convinced by the falcon args but on the offchance falcon flips vil, im satisfied with the alignment of most of the falcon pushers, so the next place i'd look is cham. i'm asking about the pms because i know cham has pms with many players & im trying to establish the extent of the message spread: the questions i want to answer - is it targeted? was cham trying to sow specific sorts of thoughts wrt falcon? etc. if there's a certain player pattern in message spread, this could be v indicative and worthy of pursuit/pressure on falcon's flip.

wow cham sending a message 2 u abt u phishing his role who'd have thunk

im just gonna come in again.... -.- this is so good bro i cried ;-; A+ writing makes me wanna rp more anyway i have anonymised info to work on, reveal to village, and then i need to convey current village trust structures for anyone who wants to claim on the assumption pms remain up on my death we have a second lurcher claim - or rather i should say a first lurcher claim which was what sparked ??? over falcon's claim b/c two V lurchers are not impossible and so no rolelynching, but either way, i agree with the arguments that falcon's reported actions show an obscene amount of trust for a village player in a player of unknown alignment n2 from a village power role i am going to commit to focusing on rping and trolling and turn down my village game abt 20 notches i need to recover and while i had a talk with el about how to play the situation given pinch-hitter & supply, im confident that for as long as im in the game, i can just have fun trolling players and do less....less extreme intensive puzzle-solving (no more d1/d2 madness) and just chime in now and then. qn to thread: Has anyone else received a PM from Cham about Falcon trying to phish his role? If so, can you please sound out in thread?

foul lies u shld ask fifth about the tragedy of LG19 when the Cellar(THE CELLAR REIGNS!) was opened so mashadar-infused koloss rampaged in luthadel :eyes: freakin' kel edit: <OOG> I don't want to inflame the thread further, but it's really been grinding my gears so I'm just going to say what I have to say and bow out of the thread for the rest of the Day. Some of this is really better addressed in a meta thread but I'm done enough that I'm just going to out and say this here: if there's anything, I beg the mods actually take seriously the notion of coming up with stricter ethical guidelines around emotional manipulation tactics. I don't care what the norms are in MU, and I'm not afraid to say it. MU is MU. SE is SE. We are a different community - as @Orlok Tsubodai said during the disaster that was AG7 - we had the gentleman killer rep. I don't know what to say anymore. I don't claim to have the answer as to how to do this significant task, but I'm going to say upfront one of the reasons Wyrm stopped playing was because he was done with seeing that in games (not all games, yes, but if the community doesn't care...), and I got sick to the fecking gills of being gaslit (THANK YOU LEN). You know my principles on blue texting. I am considering whether or not to do this, because I think it will add a bit more heat than I am comfortable with, but I think it will also spell out some of why I have been so bloody done with the last Night and Day. I've not made any secret on the SE Discord that I have been freshly recovering or dealing with the after effects of an abusive intimate relationship. Certain events on N3 gouged open those scars again, and I've noticed myself falling back into behaviour patterns that existed during the relationship, mostly shutting down/shutting out/nonengagement - if you're aware of the term, 'grey rock.' For these reasons, I am withdrawing for the rest of the Day. I need some time to recover and to regain my balance and to decide if I can continue or need a pinch-hitter. This game is not worth that. This means I acknowledge I am biased because I have a particular history with these techniques. I don't care for them ethically and for reasons of personal history. When used without caution, they can drag me back mentally to one of the worse periods in my life. I'm also uncomfortable with how this causes me to reflexively shut down, and thereby hurt people who might not have expected a sudden icing out. I also acknowledge I operate in a grey area, because El has theorised I am by nature a very open and honest player. Being Evil is hard for me because one of my biggest Evil tells is that I become very guarded, emotionless, and shut people out. (I say this independent of what my current, actual alignment is, and this should not be taken as OOG confirmation or denial of what my actual alignment is. I don't want to play this way.) Part of this is my discomfort at the thought of unduly deceiving people with that honesty. But it is also very difficult to live and play that way, which is why yes, I hate being Evil. I acknowledge that being a player who generally just wears his emotions on his sleeve, it's hard for me to avoid influencing players by that. I think the emotions we have all been feeling are real. God only knows mine are. I don't for one second think anyone is faking emotion. I certainly haven't been, barring the D3 gambit. But I believe in this: that I choose how much of my pain and my emotions to reveal, and how to reveal them, and when and where to reveal them. I believe that even in that pain, I have a choice as to how much to reveal, and how to reveal them. I could go further into detail - when writing up this post, about how bad the past few days were for me. But I don't see a point in doing that. That choice would dredge up more pain in thread, and cause perhaps more unhappiness, more hurt, and basically be nothing but performative. I just think it's important to remember that the framing of the emotion, how you choose to reveal it to others, is often at least in part a deliberate choice. I can't help replying to players in terms of my emotions because I'm a heart before head kind of guy. But I can choose to be careful about what I let them see, because of the effect it has on them. If there is a good way to frame my belief, it is this: we have a duty to others, even in our pain. I shouldn't have slipped up with Beagle. I think it was a mistake, not because of emotional manipulation, but because Beagle knew my views on emotional manipulation. In other words, Beagle knew I would cut off my own right hand before I willingly manipulated her, meaning it was not an Elim tactic to gain trust, and thereby adduced a strong belief I had to be Village on account of my distress. There were unfortunate reasons for the slip, which I've already said a bit about. But I think it was a mistake, and should probably have asked to be modkilled on the spot. Let's take a brief aside to talk about rep. I think some of this game blurs the line between rep issues where Wilson was automatically distrusted just because she was Wilson, because people felt she had magical powers to the point she could make them think she was Village while Evil just by opening a PM with them, or existing in thread. That was the extreme of the rep end, and I'm extremely sympathetic to how players like Orlok, Wilson, and Aman will struggle with reps. I believe this was part of the reason the threat tiers ('Holy Batman', 'Crouching Badchull' and so on disappeared.) But rep is also what we earn. I work with Orlok because he has a reputation for honour, because I know he can be relied on, and I know that if I can make a logical case to him, he will accept it on its merits. This was one of the many reasons I went directly to him, because I knew he could bracket paranoia of my gambit (again, this should not be taken as OOG confirmation or denial of what my actual alignment is) if I gave him a case with a cost-benefit analysis laid out. I work with Wilson because I know if she gives me her word, she is good for it. In a past life, before this generation of SE players, players trusted me because they knew I kept trusts, and because I refused point-blank to betray no matter what. I'm not saying this was right. I'm saying this was my reputation. And I'm saying I built this reputation through consistent behaviour across games. I think it's disingenuous to say that the events of N3 to D4 were purely about rep. There was, as I kept pointing out, a basic prima facie case for a lynch, one that should have been true, should have been damning and acceptable grounds for a lynch in any other cycle, in any other game, with any other player. If Aman's rep fed into this, it was as a player who will aggressively defend and erode normal and reasonable grounds for a lynch using a variety of strong tactics. The rep was not the basis for the lynch. The rep was the basis for how events played out. To put it bluntly, if you have a strong reputation for being able to convince players there are five lights through a combination of argumentative erosion tactics, and emotional punches, and you continue to play into that earned reputation, I think it is fairly disingenuous to claim this cycle was just about rep. No. No it was not. It was, and it was also about players actively continuing to play into that rep, both defending the lynch, and trying to pressure against it. As I told Axl in a PM, I was more than happy to have this be a proper debate in thread, like Orlok would have wanted. It was also fairly obvious this was not going to be happening. In my view - and this is where it goes back to my concerns about emotional manipulation - I've said this before about bluetext. If you require bluetext for basic interactions, you create a situation where SE players feel that anything not in bluetext cannot be trusted. You effectively create a norm where suspicion of basic human emotions is fair game. In my view, emotional manipulation poisons that well. Players either decide they are better off not playing in a community that can't be bothered to think through the lines on what is acceptable and what is not (Wyrm), or players end up prepared to use any tactics possible to blunt the force of such tactics. To put it more bluntly, Falcon and Axl doesn't like that they're not being heard out. Ok. And in any other cycle, with any other player, I would give you this. There's no reason not to hear the player out. Swan heard me out. What just happened last two Turns? In my view, the aggressiveness of what we just saw creates an arms race and a zero-sum game. Players either decide they need to adopt unorthodox tactics to not have to lose, to not be taken advantage of, or players, again, make the Wyrm move and leave. And in the process, players who genuinely may or may not be expressing frustration get lost in the noise. Flamingo was extremely distraught in my DMs. That alone in my view made this entire mess of the last two Turns not worth it. To anyone who says these unorthodox tactics are unacceptable, I challenge you to explain why you immediately presume the other set of tactics are fundamentally acceptable, thereby privileging them. You can't have it both ways. I actually wrote a post as a counterpress, as I expected a strong series of pushes from Hyena. This post weaponises a significant amount of my pain and my personal demons. I didn't feel good about it, and I still don't. I requested that El, Fifth, and Wilson read it. [Edited to add: For the record, they approved it.] I was not comfortable with the extent to which I was pushing. El felt it was powerful, and I agree. But I also clarified I didn't feel okay using it, and really felt a bit filthy as a result. And I was never, ever going to drag things to that level, unless it was already dragged there. And that, too, felt like a lot of retroactive justification for unacceptable tactics. I've destroyed it. I don't want to go there. Again, this creates an arms race. The well has been thoroughly poisoned, and I'm past the point of being done with this. The last AG I outlined some stuff we needed to have a conversation about, and nothing happened either. I don't know if I'm expecting the horrors of the past cycle to matter, but whatever. I really hope it does. Make that shite worth something. I'm withdrawing for the Day. You all have fun and do whatever you want. Will be reachable by PMs if necessary but I'm going to unplug from this and try to regain some of the progress and recovery I've made. At the end of the Day, or by the Night, I will be requesting a pinch-hitter or a modkill if I do not feel myself able to continue, in which case I thank you all for the amount of fun I had D1-D3 as I embarked on my trolling rampage. There's a separate debate to be had about a lot of the disingenuous argumentative moves made but I don't feel like getting into it and I feel it's rather pointless at this point in time. I said what I said, and I think that this at least should be acceptable Spiked tactics.</OOG>

first that was a really poor wyrm impression the real one is more bloodthirsty like when he went on a rampage in MR27 and lynched Fifth & murdered me ... but i still think the war pandas were a bit much but no im kel =)

Side-eying.

I believe he regrets that too. He was very much looking forward towards crossing blades with you. I'm more saddened that an Ada-Orlok-kel Village team was not obtaining, though I guess LG15b was a one-off. I'm well aware of that. I have never not been, since I nearly got Wilson killed in MR4, and lost us our Surgeon in the same cycle. I am of the Wyrm Inquisition, and the last son of House Urbain, and paranoia is my lineage. I have never pretended to be more than I am, and am often quite less. And so it begins. You did mention this was your favourite part.

Sitting on a bunch of role and action claims that need to be properly anonymised & shared with the thread so everyone is not ootl and everyone knows what is going on. Probably not roleclaims, need to find a way to satisfactorily anonymise action claims but should be done, don't want another AG7. Just too tired to figure that out now so it's a later problem, but D1 claim doesn't cause additional problems with what is known.

Just going to put this out here. To me, the material facts remain the push for the Iguana mislynch over Gorilla, and the push for what would have been a Flamingo mislynch (or so we now have reason to believe) once again saving Gorilla. I'm not interested in being told there are four lights. In any other SE game with any other player this would be a perfectly normal and even solid reason to base a lynch on and I challenge any one of you to show me otherwise. In LG79, E Heron fought the lynch to the last giving us all sorts of stories to justify bad votes. I'm only interested in the material facts and the material facts and the aggressiveness of the defense are both highly indicative we need a flip. I think the tacit suggestion we need 100% certainty is pretty damned disingenuous and I'm not sure why we are allowing it to take root. Should we not have lynched Gorilla then? Hyena went out to the hilt telling us he had a possible account of Gorilla's TMI. If we are required to have a case for the lynch that removes all possibilities except that of being Evil, we will never have a lynch at all, because even Seeker scans can be falsified. The player can be lying. I'd rather focus on the fact that this connection to Gorilla is strong enough that in any other SE game, in any other cycle, we would be considering this valid grounds for a lynch. In. Any. Other. Game. In. Any. Other. Cycle. I'm not interested in buying lovely stories. A player can say whatever they want and make it sound plausible with a silver tongue. But material facts concerning a player's actions shows where their strategic interests lie—do they lie with the Village? Or with the Spiked. I further point out that if you think he was Lurched by an Evil Lurcher as a distraction, we need to know that too. The lynch is also supposed to be informative. This tells us concrete things about how the Elims behaved on D2 when Iguana was endangered and on D3 when Gorilla was in danger. This also tells us about the Elim team's strategy. I'm side-eying those who happily jumped on the Gorilla train and the Mauve train and any SE train that was never a hundred percent certain, which let's be clear, is any train ever, and insisting that something is wrong. Lack of full and utter apodictic certainty didn't stop you then. Why is it stopping you now? The material facts point to a connection, are indicative, and informative. This is a necessary lynch.

i approve of ur dedication 2 rp once i used 2 be this way now i m tired

So basically anon accounts can't post images or Quality Memes because you can't upload images. But I am a dedicated purveyor of STar Wars prequel memes. So how you do it is: 1. Find an image hosting service 2. Host your image 3. Upload from URL P.S. Discord counts as an image hosting service Go forth and may the meme gods be with you.

but you do agree wormmon is cute? b/c if u do, ur my new buddy :eyes:

i am very emotional ilu guys please have some wormmon with affection:

you are welcome always on my porch, my friend. i have the best memes i'll probably share some in thread in a while in order to spread love and positivity <3 xoxoxo