Salmon Meerkat

No, thank you.

Gonna be honest here, I think the Vulture kill was a threatkill. Vulture thought the kill would hit me because it was tactical, so he advised me to spread out the Village informational network, which I now have done so. I disagreed and said as much - Hyena is going to get lynched, one way or another. We've hashed out the arguments enough times. The real question is how expensive on the Village he wants to make this, before he gets lynched. But after that? You can't deny that - as Falcon says - E!Hyena's flip would look damned good on Vulture and you, Ostrich. And the thing is, Vulture is one hell of an analyst. Vulture was already functionally soft-confirmed Village in my eyes, but imagine that - but in the eyes of everyone else in the game. Vulture's done some pretty wild stuff in his play history and it wouldn't surprise me that some players would rather take Vulture out before he can get momentum and continue to devastate the Spiked team.

when u try ur best and u don't succeed when ur isos are bad player reads when u defend 1+ elim repeatedly surely ur cursed (or Spiked) TEARS STREAM DOWN YOUR FACE WHEN YOU LOSE A FRIEND THAT YOU CANNOT REPLACE TEARS STREEAAAAAM DOWN YOUR FACE AND AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (i can't do this y u leave me) lights will guide u home & ignite those votes & i will try 2 lynch hyena

I interrupt your serious argumentation and threadbrawling with a meme because if I don't do it, Fifth will beat me to it. And we wouldn't want that

Charcoal Hyena Ni su'cuyi, gar kyr'adyc, ni partayli, gar darasuum Orlok.

because people like me =) and they trust me =) and they tell me things =) Such as the fact that they, like me, were committed to the Gorilla lynch, and deeply disturbed by what we saw as an attempt to derail the lynch of an Elim or a highly-suspected Elim and onto Flamingo, whom we read as Village on the basis of a tone read, further corroborated by Gorilla's death and flip, and the fact that this helps us make sense of the Ocho kill. Ocho's death was meant to clear one D2 CW, providing a tempting situation where of three end-day CWs, two of them had flipped Village, so the Village could be baited into trying its luck with Flamingo. But that's not where it ends. Suppose, for the moment, you are a team with Gorilla on it. Suppose that Gorilla had already encountered D1 threat, ending up as one of three end-day CWs. What do you do? Well, enter Flamingo. Enter a Villager whose voting patterns looked bad because they could be construed as defending Gorilla, removing lynch pressure from Gorilla by diluting the lead train across Gorilla (3 votes) and Crocodile (3 votes.) Enter a Villager who had become a end D2 CW, and around whom suspicion could be build. There was a lot of pressure towards the end of the cycle, wasn't there? Almost as though an Eliminator had come under threat. And Ocho had flipped Village, and Iguana had flipped Village, so who else could it be? I myself nearly was trapped by this reasoning, and had felt that pressure on Flamingo was reasonable initially. Ocho's death was bait. Because if the Village had been lured into killing Flamingo, and Flamingo were to flip V - what then? I submit the Eliminators would have pushed these subsequent lines of reasoning: 1. We should have a higher credence in the claim that all D1 trains were V/V/V because we have just seen that all D2 trains were V/V/V. Let's not repeat 'lynch the CW.' 2. Since Flamingo was a Villager, Flamingo's vote shift to tie the Mauve-Gorilla trains cannot be seen as suspicious. If it cannot be seen as suspicious, then Gorilla in turn does not merit suspicion. And now we see the point of Ocho's death at last. It was meant to save Gorilla. Fortunately for us, that didn't happen. But that's an aside. The Rioter has claimed their actions and has been generally accountable. I am satisfied with the veracity of their claim. I feel that's a slightly question-begging frame because the point that Vulture is driving at is simple: P1. There are reasons to think with high confidence that Falcon is Evil. P2. Hyena claimed to be a Mistborn who drew Bronze N1 and scanned Falcon as a Villager. P3. Falcon confirmed that Hyena had scanned her role correctly. Note, first, that the argument (P1) for whether Falcon is or is not Evil is separate from the Mistborn claim. We'll get to that in a bit. (Just see Vulture, it's late for me and I have more work rip.) But here's the thing: P2 and P3 indicate that only two possibilities happened. That is to say, for Falcon to confirm that Hyena scanned her role correctly and for Hyena to have scanned Falcon as a Villager can be true in only two possible worlds: A. Falcon is scanned by Hyena. This says nothing about Hyena's alignment, and regards the Mistborn claim as being prima facie possible. B. Falcon is not scanned by Hyena, because Falcon and Hyena are in cahoots. B in particular implies and entails a Hyena-Falcon connection such that if P1 holds true (again, see separate argument), then Hyena is also Evil. Or to put it in another way: if you ostensibly claim to have scanned a player as a Villager, and if the player flips Evil, it's clear you are a liar, and Evil as well. By asking why the Elims would have known this, you're begging the question against Vulture because you're already assuming the veracity of the scan. Yet the truthfulness of the scan is exactly what is under question here! I felt that there were other circumstances surrounding the scan that didn't seem right: First, I felt that the claim tripped a number of red flags because it was the correct blend of specificity (see, I'm accountable! see, I'm not killing at night!) and involved an unprovable metal, because the escape hatch is simply that Hyena and Falcon are both Evil teammates. In other words, it seemed designed to project the idea that the players involved are trustworthy even when there was little reason to trust on the basis of the specific nature of the claim. Second, I felt that in particular, the Seeker claim is to be regarded always with prima facie caution, because in Tyrian Falls, Seekers are not Confirmed Good. There is an understandable psychological tendency to get carried away with the results of Seeker scans and forget to ask if you have reason to trust the alignment of the ostensible Seeker in the first place. It's a useful claim in these circumstances because it can exonerate teammates, allowing you to pass them off as Village, so long as the ostensible Seeker doesn't die. People fixate on the utility of Seekers, end up functionally relying on them, and forgetting that their alignment hasn't actually been checked yet. Third, I'm sorry to say, but one has many other helpful options if specifically Seeking 'active players' than Falcon. Going for Cham might have helped to resolve the C1 wagon problem. Coral Swan and Mauve Crocodile are two other players which certainly count as prima facie active. The specificity of picking Falcon is in itself somewhat skewed in plausibility - precisely because Falcon had an inactive C1 and only returned into the second half! Thus, the choice can also be suspected to have been gamed by alignment. In general, I believe that combined with the case against Falcon (discouraging the Gorilla push both in thread and PMs, D1 Mauve crocodile voter, and the connection to Hyena who was deeply implicated and invested in two bad lynches, and defending an Elim who later got executed) - the simplest explanation is that both Falcon and Hyena are Evil together. This entails that the scan is false. The question is a misleading one.

waaaaaait so lemme get this right hyena evil falcon evil ????

Can't look at the data unfortunately as a work situation came up. I expect to be tied down through the end of the week, as largely a warm body who will be present to vote but with little bandwidth for analysis. I trust you guys. You can do this. I'll be back when I can, maybe post some pre-written RP. Edited to add: Only one Elim down so let's not get complacent but let's break that curse!

Meerkat will not, Meerkat is tired I trust this at least makes up for the massive trauma I must have caused with my gambit? =) Well, maybe later. If you guys can accept a substandard Tineye message from me and prefer me to look at the voting patterns.... Is that even a question

@Elbereth im too tired for this pls

This one I should answer openly. You caught me at a good time as I was preparing to exit Wormmon Appreciation Hour. You single out Vulture and Hyena both. I'm going to assume part of it is reputational; part of it is the fact I was upfront with them. (There's a separate ethical question IMO that is extra strong with regards to anon games about whether it's fair to bring reputational issues here - where of all games, an anon player can escape that. I don't want to talk about this here, as this is a meta thread appropriate question, except to say that I am sympathetic to this, and I don't know what the correct answer is; Hyena and Vulture have been very obvious to anyone with play history with them (...as have I but everyone is wrong as im kel), but I would prefer to bracket the reputational issue where possible.) My policy towards Vulture and Hyena is powerfully operative and pragmatic: I respect them, and am aware they are sufficiently formidable and intelligent enough that if they are Evil, they work out for themselves what I am doing anyway. I've seen this across games. If Vulture or Hyena are Evil, they know I am Village, and that along with my fake Elim claim is sufficient information to begin to puzzle out what my intentions are. Trust is low in this game, especially early on - I was actually surprised it took Vulture a hot second to realise what I meant when I said I had a strong Village read on the Tineye. And sometimes you have to give a bit to get a bit - giving them data means I get to see their takes, and try my best to work out if there's a powerful skew there that could be driven by alignment. Good!Vulture and Good!Hyena, on the other hand, need information to be effective. And with Hyena in particular, though this is a player meta claim, you will never catch E!Hyena by looking at his words - at least, not for a player of my skill level. You have to do it by vote analysis. With a grand total of two days of vote results, this isn't going to happen anytime soon. So they get de facto trust from me - I trust them, but with reservations, and am always on the watch to revise my evaluation if necessary. If you think Vulture and Hyena are sus, you are welcome to make the case in thread and discuss - that's the point of the lynch! I just operate on default trust towards these two players as a general if fallible rule because I am aware I am not going to catch them out early, and in the case of Vulture in particular, from our history of working together, it is better to keep Vulture clued in than not, and frankly, it's wasteful to do otherwise. In my view, operative trust is fine. It means discussing in PMs, and seeking views and information, as I do with many of my PM contacts. It doesn't mean I'm going to up and tell them any received roleclaims, for instance, or tell them what the roles are doing. And I generally try to avoid revealing roles without the player's permission anyway. My general attitude has been that the roles do whatever the hell they want to do and I do my own thing and try to have a nice, chill, quiet RPful game, although I might relay tactical advice if requested - which is why despite a C2 claim, I was so taken aback by the Coinshot choosing to smite Ocho! Vulture for instance didn't know about the C2 Coinshot claim until I mentioned it in the thread, for reasons. I was hoping to have to avoid mentioning at all, since this exposes the danger of the Elims scrutinising my reads list for hints of the Coinshot, requiring me to also fudge my reads list somewhat, but more reasons - namely some residual uncertainty and paranoid possibilities. (Exhaustion I suppose so I'm not phrasing things as sharply anymore.) It's better when you can't unsay what you have not said. Vulture in particular I trust somewhat more but this is strongly based on my read of his behaviour and his player meta - accept that's not accessible to every player, but things do be that way, and I'm open to being persuaded my read of his behaviour and our interaction is mistaken. We have history with some players and feel more confident about reading them than others. Would I be happier with more concrete reads? Yes. But RL matters to everyone, and I get that Vulture's and Hyena's playstyles do take up quite a bit of time investment, and speaking as the player that might have spent the weekend sick and in recovery - yeah maybe don't do that. I understand and hope they'll provide more concrete thread analysis soon, and I welcome that - it's good for everyone, and helps improve reads of them and other players as well. tldr; yes, operative trust =/= unquestioning trust, certain points are always need-to-know, plus c'mon gaiz discuss more!!!!! P.S. Had to say this but yes I ran this one by El as I was concerned it was in an ethically grey area because Anon Game. She said it was okay and you don't have to treat someone in an AG anonymously if they insist on "screaming their identity to the world in every post." Which of course validates my decision to announce that I am Kel in every post. I asked for permission to quote this as Tired Kel apparently finds this description excessively hilarious and also accurate.

PM Summaries: Hoo boy. I promised. I delivered. I know I talk a lot. If it's purely personal, I've censored it, as sometimes players and I discuss personal OOG stuff in PMs because it do be like that. The message timestamp is noted but it is censored. Again, please keep in mind that all timestamps are set to GMT+8, a completely non-unique timezone because I am kel. I am not transcribing full PMs and generally focus on PMs from the start of rollover to around the period of my post, except for exceptional cases like the Gorilla PM. This means that were dates are concerned, these span the 10th and 11th Jan. The PMs are not in any particular order except by how much I feel like suffering. I have not realised how much I talk. RIP GMs. Magenta Albatross PM: Thoughts: Overall scant interactions and an unremarkable PM. Alb isn't particularly interested in asking more questions, which seems to fit with the Village read - sense that Elim might be more interested in what in tarnation is going on. Conclusion: Disinterest seems consistent with player reaction - moderate Village. Amber Vulture PM: Thoughts: Letting Vulture in on it before everyone else was a gamble in and of itself but I've worked decently with Vulture in the past, and respect Vulture enough that being aware of Vulture's time constraints, prefer not to have Vulture waste time chasing false leads when Village Vulture can be very helpful, and Evil Vulture is, in any case, intelligent enough to infer what my plan is. There were also other player meta considerations that made Vulture the best player to approach. I never had to tell Vulture what I was doing - he worked it out for himself. Vulture's reactions generally seem on the level for me, and reads like his Village mode - throwing thoughts and observations out in the PM for working out. 50-50 on whether Vulture's acceptance of my being Village came too easily - I approached Vulture specifically because I appreciate that Vulture operates largely on logic, and it may very well be a combination of operative trust and past play history lending player meta familiarity that made Vulture suspend disbelief. [Specifically, Vulture has less reason to be paranoid of me than some of the playerbase, so feel that this is not unusual behaviour.] Conclusion: Genuinely feels as though he's problem-solving and sifting through player reactions/interactions, and trying to make the gambit work. Part of this is operative trust of necessity, but Vulture feels invested in a good way. Would say Village. Coral Swan PM: Thoughts: In my view, this is more or less a textbook Village reaction. Swan's hostility and suspicion and disbelief ring true for a Villager - an Elim would be more curious, or more interested in fishing, I think. Swan's continued doubt and resistance to the gambit and my innocence makes more sense as coming from a Villager than an Elim trying to feign ignorance of my actual alignment. Swan's amusement also seems very authentic. Conclusion: Moderate to strong Village read, but he's in my highest Village read tier anyway so whatever. I just don't read Swan as being Evil. If Swan is Evil, well played. I'm fine with being outplayed like this. Illogical as well for Swan to be this forward about my having 'Elim slipped' in the PM since E!Swan knows he's next. Fuchsia Ostrich PM: Thoughts: Initial curiosity on how this happened made me wonder if Ostrich was fishing as an Elim. The emotional valences of his messages just aren't as clearcut as those of Swan's, unfortunately. And certainly, players who cast doubt on the situation make me wonder if they're Evil. But Ostrich's reaction also feels right: he's sensed there's something weird and he's going towards further paranoia but still accepting the basic premise that I'm Evil and constructing increasingly elaborate gambits that I must be doing. Unsure if this is Ostrich's natural thought process, due to player PMs passing the Tineye message interception theory around. Conclusion: I feel like the paranoia reads more Village to me than not. Ostrich is probing the situation but he's not trying to slow-walk the lynch or instill doubt! All his scenarios require me to be Evil but just construct alternate explanations for how the 'Elim slip' could happen. I feel like that's hard for an Elim to do - to focus only on alternatives (holes in the current situation) and for me to be Evil in all of them. On balance, at least a light Village read to Ostrich. Chartreuse Penguin PM: Thoughts: Nothing much here. In a way, Penguin's disinterest in anything not the reason behind the Ocho kill and Vulture's alignment seems like a good thing to me. Conclusion: Disinterest in anything not Village-related could be an indicator of Villagerness. Shortness of PM itself a good sign but also means hard to get read off Penguin. Consider more, maybe revise tier. Turquoise Gorilla PM: Thoughts: The timing is strange - first message comes after I posted about having faked the message. Gorilla's message seems to imply they read the thread, but not the post clarifying the situation, but also that they have room or reason to doubt the message even after having a confession from me and Swan backing that confession up. Gorilla accepting that I sent the message is also odd - it's very easy, which I shouldn't be complaining about, but Ostrich's and Swan's reactions are very sharp counterpoints. It's not clear to me where Gorilla gets this trust from - unlike Beagle, who has meta-reasons, and unlike Vulture, who was working with me on an operational basis and in turn we were both cracking our heads on the issue - Gorilla hasn't really interacted too much with me, so why does Gorilla retain their strong Village read of me and think it is a gambit? Conclusion: Doesn't ring right to me. A few too many tiny red flags. Suspicious. Charcoal Hyena PM: Thoughts: As expected, Hyena was fast on the uptake. If E!Hyena, likely already knew what was going on, so no problem talking to Hyena. Unfortunate that Meerkat's level of persuasion boils down to apparent police interview tactics. Don't feel confident making an assessment one way or another. Was Hyena too fast to believe? Uncertain. Conclusion: Really don't know what to think. Seems on the level, but at the same time, I don't feel confident evaluating this one. Feels ok to me I suppose. Revisit. Violet Axolotl PM: Thoughts: Feels like it could go either way. Axl's first sentence had me on edge, I have to say Generally banter, and I don't know what I'd read into it. Conclusion: /shrug Amethyst Scorpion PM: Thoughts: Another one that feels like it could go either way. The talk about the Tineye almost feels a little like fishing for whether I set this up so it's interesting that I have a slightly positive read of Scorp from the thread. But maybe I need to reassess both. Conclusion: Reassess. Emerald Falcon PM: Thoughts: Not unusual for a Falcon PM. Lots of banter, nothing substantive. Queries about E!Meerkat and Elim team choices. No conclusion, ordinary on the face of it. Conclusion: None. Pearl Chameleon PM: Thoughts: Subdued reaction, the way Cham phrased the first question was odd and that gave me a slightly weird vibe. Just that I get that Cham says it's phrasing, but it's weird that Cham is waiting for me to say I'm Evil when I've all but implied I am in thread, as though he has some reason to doubt, which was never apparent. (Actually I don't think I ever outright said I was Spiked. I don't know, Aes Sedai urges?) Conclusion: Subdued reaction isn't in itself suspicious but Cham seemed to have reason to doubt my being Evil. Maybe I'm overreading the first sentence, but that's what I got out of it. Reassess I guess. And that's everyone. And it's late and I'm tired and my wrist is falling off and I regret it all. But here's everything at least. In general, I decided it was useless trying to deceive Hyena or Vulture. E!Hyena or E!Vulture would already work out what was going on, more or less. A thought I had on re-reading the PMs is that I kept wondering why people were obsessed with the Seeker. But maybe that was TMI on my own part - I knew there was no Seeker! I have two thoughts: perhaps Elims obsess about the Seeker, because it's a good distraction from analysis and they do want to find a Village Seeker, if such a Seeker exists. On the other hand, perhaps players who don't care at all about the Seeker or think the Seeker a distraction have TMI. I don't know and it's late and I'm tired. I just wanted to get this out here. Edited to add: I would also like you to appreciate that my boy Wormmon is suffering and I am very sad

Nothing short of death is going to stop me from sending out Tineye Messages. I have a sacred duty to send scams out to the people of Tyrian Falls! You hear that, Spiked? Only my death can stop you from receiving loan scams, phishing scams where you submit your credit card details for awful vampire and werewolf romances, banking scams, tech support scams, and MORE! (Or maybe I'll find some other schtick. Could I force all of you to read the Worst (TM) BTS fanfic? I'd have to make sure it's family-friendly but eh.) But I'm also happy to bake in some of the more complex cryptography Opal Lion used in LG79 if that'd help. I like being able to authenticate my own messages ACTUAL BUSINESS SERIOUS GAME STUFF: Anyway. I want to focus on the state of my current reads, and look at the D1 + D2 results updated. [Later: No, that was too optimistic. Okay. At least I've got this bit out.] My current problem is that my reads skew village and I just have a bunch of people in the lower tiers who aren't screamingly Evil (cf. Sith tier.) MAY THE FORCE BE WITH THEM: PADAWAN: INITIATE: DEADER THAN A TRITON MOON [=NULL]: I'VE GOT A BAD FEELING ABOUT THIS: ACOLYTE: I don't have a populated Sith tier yet. As much as I dislike revisiting D1 trains again and again, I'm going to say that I'm concerned enough to go for Gorilla. Salmon Meerkat. For reference, as I'm still working on the other summaries, here's the Gorilla Summary: Turquoise Gorilla PMs: [All timestamps are GMT+8, and dated the 11th of January. Americans beware about timezone conversion. I posted about faking the whole thing at 0220hrs on the 11th of January. I am aware this is a fairly distinctive timezone, but im kel ] Pretty much ends there after an emoji from Gorilla. The timing is a bit unusual as I posted the reveal at 0220hrs, and Gorilla was in the thread a couple times but not participating before that. Asking for a Tineye message opinion thereafter seems a bit OotL, but Gorilla's statement that they'd suspected it was some kind of gambit doesn't feel right to me. Swan for instance, noted he had a strong enough Village read of me to be struggling with my Elim slip but acknowledged I had to be Evil because no Villager would be nuts enough to claim Evil. Beagle too wrestled with it for meta-reasons due to circumstances, but ended up going with the necessitated conclusion. Gorilla having a strong Village read on me, suspecting a gambit, and hanging back doesn't feel right - it feels like a player with TMI. Gorilla's response and acceptance of my claim I'd sent the message was fairly flat. It's possible that Gorilla had read the thread between my response and Gorilla's 1228hrs but Swan fought me extremely hard with hostility and disbelief when I tried to point out this was a gambit, and Swan had me as a fairly solid Village read as well. In comparison, Gorilla's behaviour just seems off. Gorilla is an unsolved problem lingering from D1, and is connected to several players, such as Flamingo, whose vote made the Crocodile train come online and thus took some lynch pressure off Gorilla. At this point, I'm willing to go for it. PENDING: Full PM summaries Updated D1 / D2 voting look - may hold off until after rollover, will see.

Why would the Seeker do that? Asking for a message to pass to the Tineye automatically is noteworthy and immediately flags them as likely being a Seeker. Everyone tries the "I'm not the Tineye but I know a Tineye" deal and it never works. Why go for a Tineye when the fastest thing to do is: A. scan someone, B. get them to post a message to the thread? Why would Ocho send a message in my distinctive style when I have a history of sending such messages? I don't want to lean too hard on player ID but your theory requires Ocho to have sent those messages and I know who you think I am, and my play history will show this is absolutely within my Tineye MO, both the style (pictorial message, broadsheet type, embedded steganography, sometimes ciphers, usually hidden in plain sight and within RP.) I'm also fairly distinctive in doing these sorts of messages in the playerbase - note that all the other Tineye messages don't use this style, and it's generally not favoured. Fair; I probably conflated them then and credited something from Falcon to you, but in any case, talking to Falcon has made me shift my view on how to read that response from both of you. I laid out my motives. 'Hit game with stick watch what shakes out and get ISO player specialists to go read the responses.' If you really want me to spell it out, I know there are certain players in this game who excel at doing that. (Hi Falcon et al.) Is this a sort of a powerful appeal to player id? Maybe. But I don't think it's unwarranted. Is it a big risk? Yes and no. Yes, but I'm a Village Tineye, which - since I had no idea Ocho was going to die until after, and I am asking the Coinshot to be more bloody communicative in future and call their kills beforehand and not let me wake up to that and a PM in my inbox (sorry bro I know my stunt gave u a heart attack but) - and not particularly skilled at reading because I'm a vote analysis guy. My death isn't going to hurt the Village and if there are clear interactions for people to read, why the hell not? Sometimes you have to toss the dice. It's an AN, it's the best sort of time to sometimes switch up your playstyle and take a risk you don't usually do. Chaos isn't always bad chaos. Chaos isn't inherently bad. I dislike chaos but you can make sense out of chaos because Elims have TMI and Elims have a specific set of motivations even in the chaos. You've also forgotten one risk I am always happy to take as a Villager - I'm never afraid to die if I think some Village benefit can be gained from it. Anyway: 1. Moderate Village read on Mint Heron from our interaction. I feel that an Elim would have a better read on me than "active grey area player." 2. Light Village read on Beagle, or at least I am not willing to damn her for her response to the fakeclaim. I think Beagle had a major confounding factor because she has a strong player ID read on me and unfortunately I have a strong player ID read on her which meant she had to deal with me having an emotional breakdown over the Iguana lynch that I'm not interested in talking more about. (I didn't really want to say this in thread because it feels dirty and I'm not proud of reacting that way, but okay, fine I guess I'll just say it.) I think it's understandable that given our shared views on emotional manipulation and having seen that amount of vulnerability/upset from me, she would have felt something was wrong about my being Evil. So bearish on Beagle for now. My problem is I have too many Light / Moderate Village reads. I'm going to reimpose this on the voting data and look for my new PoE given those assumptions and will be back. Edited to add: I promise I am not usually an emotional kasketcase and that I don't go crying to every player who has a PM with me it was an exceptional occasion and specific series of circumstances and player ID read. Edited to add 2: I realise my point wasn't clear. I'll spell it out more clearly. Ostrich is proposing that there's a Seeker out there who was nuts enough to tell everyone they were looking for a Tineye and hit enough people and an Elim in there. Leaving out the dubious strategy from the Seeker, who can actually confirm people and get them to take risks on the Seeker's behalf, what I'm saying is - okay, if there's a Seeker, they must have scanned someone N2 right? Because you don't scan an Elim N1 and stop. Is Ostrich that scan target? If he isn't, it's just speculation. If not, why doesn't the N2 scan target come forwards? Even if I'm Evil, I'm not a god. I can't infer who the Seeker is just from who the scan target. Suppose it's Ostrich - suppose that's what he's implying. If he and his Seeker are willing to stand by this, so am I. Standard doctrine - lynch the target, then if it's wrong, lynch the 'Seeker' or the 'scan contact.' 50-50 odds of hitting an Elim? I'll take it. Emerald Falcon Salmon Meerkat

I have to question if you and I are playing the same game. Read the thread. A number of players were putting me as Village read. I was pretty much broadly consensus light Village and not in any immediate danger. I think you're projecting your personal read of me onto the playerbase. The Coinshot claimed to me as well C2 and while they were unfortunately slow in telling me who their N2 target was going to be such that the Ocho issue took me aback as well, they have explained their reasoning and I get it even if I wouldn't have agreed with the Ocho shot. But that's a personal meta difference and I'm not interested in calling the Coinshot's targets. Ostrich's reasoning on the Coinshot being Village makes me feel better about the Coinshot claim because I think C2 is very insanely early for a Village power rule to claim so I'm just going to chalk it down to the Coinshot being insane (sorry bro but it's true.) Does it? Because the Elims who have to put reads list will have their already-faked readslist tainted by data they know to be wrong. If discussion had been more robust, we could have caught them in an inconsistency. I think you're also overly discounting the fact reading reactions helps get a firmer read on some players. Alb has been a grey area for most who aren't Swan especially due to the Thug claim. If I really am a Villager, then being the first voter on a Villager who just claimed Elim is fairly suicidal for an Elim. Alb didn't ask, just voted. That looks so absurdly awful if you know the player will flip Village. If you don't work with reaction reads, that's a you thing. God knows I don't either. But you don't get to dismiss the fact that Elims would react differently to the situation because they have TMI. I'm going to finish summarisation and work on deciding on my own vote. It can stay chilled on Falcon for the moment while I go over D2. Poor health has temporarily stopped me from doing this yesterday but I have rested and am doing better. Don't be sleep-deprived guys. It's bad for your health.

So you are a Village Seeker. This makes you a power role. If you roleclaim to a player you haven't personally scanned, do you think that is responsible Seeker behaviour? I repeat: you are asking us to buy that the Seeker 'somehow managed to contact Ocho' - the only way this works is if the Seeker scanned Ocho and then both were stupid enough to reveal the Seeker's identity to an unscanned player. Even if Ocho had no reason to believe the Seeker to be Village, revealing the Seeker's identity in any way was bloody irresponsible. You're essentially trying so hard to make me Evil you are willing to credit atrocious behaviour to two Villagers. If this were LG1 I'd be willing to buy that maybe but I'm not willing to buy this in a game eight years on. I'd set the brush opacity to 50% for a previous set of write-ups because I didn't want it so bold - I was doing splatters. I forgot to turn it back, realised belatedly, shrugged and decided ballpark was good enough. Use of hexcodes still requires I was prescient enough to have that particular dot match the letters of my RP in a consistent fashion, much less deliberately edit my RP on N2 (you can check this, it's logged in the edits for everyone to see) to add the three crucial paragraphs I forgot. I'm sorry but you should be a basketball player because that's an incredible reach. I read it as preparing the ground for a Swan push. You complain it's an Elim gambit first, and then sus on Swan, and after I die, it's clearly Swan at fault, who is already under a cloud of suspicion helpfully from last Day, so mislynch Swan next. I've talked to Falcon about this and decided Elims are more likely to ride your push so I'm not backing this point anymore. The Ocho kill is as much of a mystery to me as anyone. The only helpful point is that it indicates likely V Coinshot but I'm paranoid the Coinshot tried to roleclear themselves to me and the Ocho kill is related to that and I don't like roleclearing players as a general rule. Edited to add: I'm not sure if you are being played. If there is a Seeker, where is the Seeker? Are they even Village? Seeker is not a confirmed Village role in Tyrian, remember LG74? I don't need them to claim in thread. I'd be happy to cut a deal - you lynch me this cycle, and when I'm dead and flip Village, lynch Ostrich, or the 'Seeker' who claimed to him, that he thinks exists, because any Seeker who claims to have been in contact with Ocho is, unfortunately, a filthy liar, which would make Ostrich either Evil or - more likely - a dupe.

Because Meerkat hadn't been in at least some position of trust on most Village reads before this, because no Coinshot claimed to Meerkat C2 ok. It's not my problem if you guys won't get your act together and discuss, and I'm not going to be sorry for being this brutally frank about it. I'm one player and I'm not responsible for Villlage choosing to ignore good Village play and this is one point I will happily die on. I repeatedly prevailed upon everyone to talk more and prodded discussion and it was dismissed as openwolfing. (Which I understand, given the context, but.) I pointed out reads and suspicions had to be broad, that lynch pressure had to be kept on other people rather than parked on me, I could be killed later on - votes can always move and the Coinshot is likely Village anyway. No response. Players chose to obsess and buckle down rather than to use the Ocho flip, as I kept urging. You can't complain that this shows whose Village radars are working properly and also that discussion is blocked. If discussion is blocked, then there isn't good information on whose suspicions are on-track. You can't have it both ways. I currently read this as light V because an Elim would have to be pretty damned foolish to try this one.

but im kel =) so its 100000/10 on the kel scale tyvm

So, cards on the table time. I am not Spiked. I am a Village Tineye, and I sent in the message condemning myself as a Spiked Regular. I then acted the aghast, panicking Elim who got rattled and accidentally outed myself in the thread. I hadn't prepared to 'elim slip' to Coral Swan - my plan was to do that in the thread, but Coral Swan's post presented such a good opportunity that when I saw it, I knew I had to capitalise on it. It also gave me a chance to feel Swan out more extensively, to see if Swan was an Elim trying to figure out what the bloody blazes I thought I was doing, or a genuinely confused Villager. I was intending to wait for the 24 hour mark to post this, but the thread death in my view is concerning - I was not trolling when I pointed out that discussion needed to happen and fixating on my 'scan' wasn't going to cut it. So I guess here I go ahead of schedule. I'm going to divide this post into sections that should address most concerns. I am prepared to answer questions about my research methods. I. Kel, What The Hell? II. The Plan III. How Do We Know You're A Tineye Though? IV. Why Think I'm Telling The Truth? V. Thoughts and Analysis (Based off Thread, By And Large) VI. Conclusion If you lynch me, you lynch me. I'm cool with that. I'll be back to answer questions after I get some sleep. And apologies to Swan for implicating you after my 'panic'. I hope I have made it sufficiently clear that this was on me and Swan should not be gone after until after I flip, at which point, you have other things to re-assess.

I want the Village to win this. Is that so wrong? Will you scorn contribution just because you think I can't be trusted? And to think I liked you I agree. I'm not fully certain about this but I think you're Village. I suppose that's not very helpful coming from me, but reports of Elim omniscence have been...exaggerated.

I'll be honest, I think I'm starting not to like Cham as much now. Cham's responses are just a bit off. Haven't decided where I stand on you.

Agree to share? I'd settle for a group PM =)

for what it's worth tineye 'ppreciate if u drop me a pm right before i head out i would really like to know whose fault this entire thing was >:(

Sorry bro wrong person. im kel =)