Isilel

So, I am currently re-readin WoK and in chapter 19 in Dalinar's vision the Midnight Essence, something that he can fight with an iron poker, cracks the Plate of a Radiant who has investiture available to him with a claw, and Dalinar thinks that the danger to the Radiants in this instance is real. I can't help but think that Radiant plate would do significantly worse against rifle/ machine gun fire or explosives. Bendalloy allomancy would remove the problem entirely. You can easily predict enemy movement trajectories and work out firing solutions when in the bubble, as well as re-load, then drop it to actually fire. Bye-bye Focused Ones. Though, honestly, AoE Leeching via grenades, then massed gun fire would work as well. As to the Husked ones, Deep Ones, etc., Seekers should be able to track all of them and shoot them. Possibly dropping Chromium grenades on them first to make it easier. But even if not, the Fused have only so much healing, you don't need to destroy their gemhearts to kill them, as long as you do enough damage. Do we have any reason to think that any of them had Bronze Allomancy? I really hoped to see them use some Metal Arts against Shallan and Co., particularly since the former owner of the red Aviar had been clearly spiked and had his metalminds stolen, but nada. Maybe, an argument could be made for them using some emotional Allomancy, or Iyatil being able to speed up in minor ways (thought it could have also been skill), but there was nothing concrete. Nobody felt the approach of the Windrunners (whose surge-binding is "loud") either until they ran into them. It has been specifically mentioned that aluminium bullets would have been dangerous to Wayne, because they would have prevented him from healing around themselves and his body from expelling them.. He was never hit by one, due to the protagonist plot armor. The Fused didn't use aluminum spearpoints and arrowheads for the simple reason that it is too soft and they don't have enough metallurgy knowledge and technology to create alloys that would be somewhat harder, but retain it's anti-investiture properties. So, according to this argument plate armor would have been useful during WW1? This doesn't sound right. Also, they'd still suffer force transference from the impacts and get hurt, even if this had been the case. Roshar also doesn't have the quality of steel comparable to that available to the Western World during WW1. Seekers would be very useful for detecting and shooting Fused, particularly the Husked Ones and Deep Ones. Allomantic grenades make a few more Allomantic powers very useful - Aluminum, Cadmium, Duralumin. They would also allow to stretch the use of certain powers far beyond the number of available Mistings, who wouldn't even need to be in battle, just charge for the use of regular soldiers. There are also synergies. We have seen Fused being killed by wholly unpowered people, Thugs would be more dangerous than those. I suspect that Leeching could affect some of the Regals, like stormforms. IIRC, Regals in OB/RoW did get a small amount of voidlight for personal use. I am not really sure why you compare Fused draining Radiants of stormlight with their spears - which works like transferring investiture between gems, a somewhat protracted process, with Leeching, which, if not completely instantaneous, is very swift. Granted, for the most part we saw it from Nikki Savage's broadsheet stories, which are usually exaggerated, but the whole incident with her Leeching Nazh's shadegun sounds compatible with what we know of his background. Finally, there is the elephant in the room - 30% higher gravity on Scadrial and lack of plentiful ambient investiture to suppress infectious diseases. Which should significantly weaken any Rosharan invasion. Also, the Ghostbloods should be able to provide timely warning, and maybe some off-world military experts, so that even without the time dilation there should be enough time to train an army. There is no reason to think that Dai-Gonarthis can transport people between star systems, so Rosharans would have to march through Shadesmar, which, according to Hoid in WaT, should take months. The same should probably be the case for the Fused souls every time when they get killed.

Ok, but if it was that straightforward, why wouldn't SoScads make such gadgets too? With 3 powers limit, like with Feruchemy. Surely, they must have tried, given that they need Steel Allomancy to prime aircraft engines. Also, if the medallion part granting Nicrosil Feruchemy was not drained like everything else for some reason (why?) and remained functional, shouldn't people trying to use the Bands have at least felt something? It also seems to me that even in such a case, it would be a considerable sacrifice to lose the massive storages, no doubt created through Era 1 style hemalurgic Compounding. Yes, Marasi and Wax between them nearly depleted some of them, but they wouldn't have had reasons or metals to use others. IMHO, a con where the Bands weren't drained, but seemed so, would be more likely. And the WoB about how allomantic grenades charged with Aluminum Allomancy could affect Metalborn powers suggests a plausible method, IMHO. Checking BoM, I also noticed that Wax thought that there might have been a second "bracer" there somewhere and looked for it before departing the temple. Could this be a hint that there is/was one?

The Stormfather's association with Tanavast prevented Honor's power from considering him, I imagine. As to Mishram, there are some mysteries about her - like, why is she such a good fit for Odium despite having been kind and compassionate in the past? As well as desirous of peace, something that Odium's power shouldn't like? How is it that Odium's investiture taken from his well of power poisoned the Heralds and pushed them towards cruel and evil actions, but didn't have the same effect on Mishram? Did Rayse off-load some of Odium's softer emotions onto her? What or who has she been Unmade from? Etc. All to be revealed in Arc 2, I imagine.

So, having searched BoM a bit, the passage that suggests that the Bands function differently from the medallions is probably this from chapter 29: In conjunction with this from chapter 21: And the fact that it is not mentioned that the characters feel nicrosil stores diminishing when using the medallions. There is also this WoB: that again suggests that nicrosil part of the medallions doesn't perceptibly diminish with use - as that of the Bands seems to. Concerning aluminum grenade fake-out of the Bands being drained, this WoB provides a good argument for the possibility: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/470/#e14829 This passage in particular: Which, IMHO, could very well include inability to sense storages. Particularly since only the Vice-Governer could have done so natively of those present and she was likely in on the scam. So, it seems that there are a couple more mentions of Seekers than I remembered. There was indeed a "blink and you miss it" one at Kelesina's in BoM. And possibility of one being present at the crash site was mentioned. But ultimately Wax used his Steelpushing to fling Wayne into the area and it wasn't detected, so they clearly didn't have one on guard despite knowing that Wax and Co. would be coming. There was also a Seeker constable in the Bilming police precinct, but he did absolutely nothing except wear a patch identifying him as such. Entrone's mansion and secret underground facilities of the Set didn't have Seekers stationed in them. At no point in the books are Tin Metalborn look-outs/security even considered. And, in fact, they would have prevented all of Our Heroes' sneaky break-ins from happening as they had been presented. Looking back on the entities not associated with the Set (Kelesina was) or criminals (including Winstig Innate), I don't remember anyone having Metalborn security. In AoL, the Tekiels didn't, despite the importance of their endeavour for the very survival of their business, the society wedding didn't, despite several high-profile robberies and abductions. In SoS the banks didn't, which enabled the Marksman's exploits. And the Governer had no Metalborn security either. Of course, Paalm could have dismissed them, or sent them away, but you'd think that Wax would have brought it up, if that lack had been unusual. The police had 2 Coinshot messengers and a Leecher as contractors(?). No Seekers, or Marasi wouldn't have needed to deduce what was happening with the Set's emotional allomancers whipping up the crowd. In TLM there are no Metalborn other than the protagonists in the police team sent to Bilming. It would track if the Governer didn't have any among his security yet again. He certainly didn't volonteer any to help prepare for the disaster, did he? Alternatively, the Vice-Governer could have sent them away, as well as made sure that Daal was able to bring in his grenade as part of the scheme. This is actually something that bugged me throughout the Era 2 a bit - I remember that someone wrote that in TLM the obstacles had been artificially tailored to the characters powers, but this has been the thorough-line of the whole tetralogy, IMHO. Our Protagonists are always the only Metalborn on the scene other than the criminals/the Set and all the challenges are obviously structured so that the heroes could overcome them with their power-sets, without needing to cooperate with anyone outside of their small, tight-knit group. So, everything that could present real difficulty or provide real competition from people working on the same side as them got omitted.

She led the party of the Fused that attacked Graves' group of which Moash was part, didn't she? P.S. Sorry, I have been corrected - it happened in OB. Oh, and I had some more ideas about possible Scadrian tactics, particularly artillery: burn bendalloy via Slider or an allomantic grenade when re-loading - continuous fire. Possibly use Brass Feruchemy to prevent over-heating. Also good for quick re-positioning, of course. Fragment enemy forces using cadmium grenades, destroy them piece-meal.

I don't remember seeing anything that suggests a meaningful difference in the difficulty of Leeching of actively used Investiture versus unused. And allomantic grenades are just modified primer cubes, which are a mature technology and not rare at all. In any case, the improved design exists and can be easily mass produced. Various metallic arts could improve range and accuracy of said grenades. Without their Investure the Fused would be gun fodder. Sure, they can be reborn - but only by cannibalising others and each death might tip them into insanity. Regarding the Husked, Seekers should have no problem tracking them and shooting them once they become corporeal. Lightweaving Fused may or may not be detectable by Seekers, but pre-emptive Leeching of anyone approaching a sensitive location could alleviate the problem. Aluminium bullets prevent healing around themselves, so the resultant bleeding could easily kill someone, even if they have some healing investiture. Which is why they were dangerous to Wayne. Dor-powered and maintained roseite versus Radiant Armor has already been addressed. Ditto conventional weapons being fully capable of destroying gemhearts - Moash did it to Leshwi at the end of WoR, in fact. Etc. @alder24: OTOH, I don't think that figuring out how to spike out Connection to Odium would be quite as straightforward as you suggest. TLR had no shortage of atium and an expanded mind, and was experimenting for a millennium, yet he never discovered anything more about Hemalurgy than what Ruin had imparted to him in the Well.

We do know that it was written 6 years after the Stormfall, epigraph for chapter 147 mentions it.

@JustQuestin2004: The agreement was that the Basiners wouldn't be able to use the Bands, it didn't apply to the kandra, an ostensible neutral party and agents of a local deity. And IIRC, it has been specifically mentioned that they were going to study them. As to "spoon-feeding", well, Kelsier gave the first principles of medallion creation to the Mawlish, why not give them to the Basin, if he wants to strengthen Scadrial ASAP? Particularly, since I suspect that either hemalurgy or a Mistborn and a full Feruchemist are needed to create the initial tools to jump-start the process. The Bands surely could have been used for it too, but... Well. The way Allik talked about the Excisors suggested that they hadn't been able to duplicate them and are still using whatever the Sovereign had provided them with. And I agree that Sanderson is saving medallion use for Era 3, but it felt extremely contrived and jarring to me in TLM when not only Marasi and Wayne, but also the Ghostbloods weren't using them. You are telling me that Kelsier could procure purified Dor and Awakened safes, as well as recruit off-worlders with exotic powers, but was unable to provide his people with fairly common SoScad technology?! Ditto Ghostbloods not having allomantic grenades. Etc. Concerning Kelsier's limitations - he must be able to use _something_ to store his memories in copper (as seen by Wax at the end of BoM) and to con his organisation into believing that he still has Allomancy. So, he might be able to use the Bands as well. Re: Bands being different from the medallions and using up Nicrosil Feruchemy reserves, I don't have a copy of BoM to hand, but there have been a lot of discussions about that on this forum. @Duxredux: But that's the thing, in Era 2 nobody uses Seekers and Tin Metalborn as security anymore (except for Innate Jr. for a hot minute). Because if they did, it would have really crimped the ability of Our Heroes to sneak into places. And nobody not associated with the Set or crime has any other type of Metalborn as security either, when they really should have. It is all very reminiscent of superhero comics. So, the vice-governor Adathwyn(?), a Zinc Ferring, was the only Metalborn on the scene when the Bands were tested and she most likely had been bought by the Mawlish.

When the kandra took the Bands at the end of BoM to guard and study, I expected them to kick-start the unsealed metalmind tech in the Basin with their findings. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out that they had apparently learned nothing in the 6 years before TLM, and the Bands got precipitously whisked away. I guess that Kelsier must finally get off his posterior and share the principles of medallion creation with the Basiners, if he truly wants a strong Scadrial. Though, I am pretty convinced that he orchestrated the Bands-napping and will get them, instead of the Mawlish. But yes, if allomantic aluminium grenade AoE also stops Feruchemy from functioning without draining the reserves in metalminds, then this very likely was the method. Without the power reserves, they are just a lump of metal. The PoVs who used them felt Nicrosil portions of them actively draining, which means that wiping the reserves would have destroyed the function completely. They are not like the medallions - though those, too, are inexplicably drained and useless in TLM, even though the weight-storing part of them should have remained useable - and would have been a benefit for both Wayne and Marasi.

These steps from the poem of Ista wouldn't have fit the human-sized Heralds ... But could they have been built to accommodate Cultivation in her dragon form?

Vasher has been stifling Nightblood's development. Shashara had insisted from the beginning that Nightblood could evolve, but Vasher never believed this and kept saying that he was just a sword and couldn't change. Perceptions matter for spren-like entities. IMHO, experiencing other bearers - Vivenna and Szeth, as well as interacting with Lift, is what allowed Nightblood to progress.

And let's not forget that it has been revealed that Taln was in all likelihood also one of Cultivation's "cards", one that was brought into play very early and is still in the game. Bringing the number of people directly touched by her up to the "strong" number of 4?

We have been told that number 4 is a "strong" number. So: 4 Aspects of Adonalsium, 4 Dawnshards, 4 moons, 4 people directly touched by Cultivation (including Taln), 4 ancient spren of Adonalsium? I mean, we have heard about only 3 - Wind, Night and Stone, but given how intrinsic symmetry is to Roshar there must have been 4, right? The Horneaters worshipped spren of stone, trees and water, so maybe one of the latter? Most likely water? Or Water?

Didn't Hold mention that he unknowingly picked up his Dawnshard back on Yolen before the Shattering? In any case, Exist doesn't allow one to kill living creatures as seen with Hoid and with Sigzil in TSM. But Taln could have had Change instead? Or something crafted with the help of a Dawnshard? In any case, we now know that Taln was special among the Heralds in that he was born on Roshar (he refers to Ashyn as "my grandmother's world"), was never Connected to Odium and was the 4th person that we know of, who had been directly touched by Cultivation. All of which may have played a role in his steadfastness.

Yes, though I just think that Moash is deeply boring and want him gone. But I would have loved more time with El, that's for sure! Mraize and Iyatil too, I am rather disappointed that we never learned what she actually wanted with BAM and how it differed from what Kelsier wanted.

Yes. Navani has done a preliminary experiment dividing their spectrums, but not Lights themselves. She went into a different direction afterwards, but it should be very doable. She thought so as well, IIRC. @ALAKA: They won't stay cooped up forever. In fact, the in-book author of KoWaT is Szeth's wife, who somehow became Jasnah's disciple less than 6 years after the Stormfall. So, either Jasnah learns to properly Elsecall in that time span, or the bubble drops, or both. But, IMHO the first is much more likely.

@therunner: IMHO, you are really underestimating the effectiveness of allomantic grenades charged with Leeching followed by gunfire and/or explosives. The Focused Ones use Investiture to become so dense. Take it away and they are sitting ducks. Regarding Radiant plate, 4th Oath Radiants got killed during the Desolations, which means that it can be broken with regular melee weapons. Guns, explosives, Steelpushing and Leeching can only make it easier. And the Basin has everything it needs to develop conventional airplanes. In fact, I was shocked that models inspired by the early 20-eth century aircraft didn't yet appear in TLM. But I am not claiming that Scadrial as of the end of TLM could conquer Roshar. As you said, Scadrial has a low population that is not united versus an active inimical deity + perpetual storm, etc. But it would be able to defend itself in case of an attack, if none of it's large factions joined Retrivangian. As to Era 3 Scadrial vs Roshar in the second half of SA, we'll see, won't we? In a decade or so.

After Kaladin's fight with Nale showed that living Radiant armor can also be damaged and rendered non-functional for a time by heavy blows, I'd say that a Mistborn with access to guns and aluminium bullets/shotgun shells filled with aluminium shot, alongside with normal ammunition, would have a very good chance of defeating most 4th Ideal Radiants one on one. And if they have access to harmonium grenades, it would be pretty much a slam-dunk. Load it with chromium allomancy, direct and activate it with a Steelpush/Ironpull then repeatedly shoot the de-powered adversary. Now that I think about it, a Coinshot with such gear would already be quite dangerous. Ditto Steelrunner, though another grenade activation mechanism would be required. They would need Leecher support to re-charge their grenades, but such combination would make for a very effective fighting team.

And it can still happen on-screen in Lift's flashback. She would have to be involved in those experiments in a supporting role anyway - to provide them with pure Cultivation's tone and lifelight. And now that I think about it, she would be the logical person to drag Vasher into it. His continued presence and covert Oppenheimering so far must have a reason, right? We have also been reminded in Rysn interview that the Windrunner Huijo is a talented budding(?) artifabrian as well, and that they have been working on some kind of flying device together? IMHO, it would be incredibly weird and unsatisfying if everything gets frozen for 10 years and be where WaT ended when the next arc starts. If this was the goal, the gap could have been just just 3 to 5 years - with time dilation Mistborn Era 3 could still have happened prior to it and Lift would have been as old as Shallan in WoK in book 6 or even Kaladin's age in Cenn's chapter.

Could someone spoil the trading card stories for me, pretty please? TIA.

I have to say that personally, I dislike the very common trope that nothing of substance gets done, unless a protagonist does it. Ditto how building a team is something that is used more for the protagonist's character progression than for any resulting benefit for the problem-solving in the narrative. Navani has made a breakthrough in Rosharan Investiture science. She also built a team that should be able to work on applications from there. The method that the Ghostbloods intended to use to export stormlight might also provide a helpful clue, which would give the raid on the Ghostblood meeting and capture of some relatively highly placed members in WaT a bit more meaning. There is also Vasher, who, for some inexplicable reason, provided Gavilar with anti-Light, but refrained from doing the same for Our Heroes, who actually could have used it to deal with the Fused. And who is more than capable of inventing a method for the splitting of the Towerlight. Conveniently, one of the main PoVs of book 6 is positioned to become close to him. Etc. Finally, splitting things apart may even be against Navani's calling as a Bondsmith. As to things happening off-screen, I suspect that Lift is the book 6 flashback PoV for a reason. Given her age, there likely wouldn't be that many chapters dealing with her past and the rest will fill the readers in on the events during the decade between the arcs.

Yes, but without the visions, he would have just sacrificed himself, while upholding the deal. It would have made absolutely no sense to me as a reader if he had made his ultimate decision without those experiences. Even with them, I don't see it as being as brilliant as Hoid claims it is, particularly since Dalinar forgetting about the spren _yet again_ would have lead to an unmitigated disaster if someone hadn't taken action wholly independently of and unbeknownst to him. But I understand the logic. How is a fundamental change of status quo "little reward"? Nothing she could have told him would have let him pick up Honor, see the futility of hanging on to it and then tempt Taravangian into picking it instead. They are wholly consistent with the established mechanism for how Connection works. It is difficult to say whether Mishram's release, or impending release (due to Spirit Realm shenanigans) affected what happened with the UnOathed, or what consequences the revival of all deadeyes is going to have. I can hardly be specific about Mishram's role in the second arc, because a lot can happen and the trio's Connection to her , as well as other information that they received from visions can come into play in a number of ways. I do think that the 2 visions with her have been instrumental in Renarin choosing the path he intends to take in the end. Etc.

What I don't understand is, even if the binding is stopping Retribution from destroying them directly, why can't Retribution's agents use Herald-trapping daggers on helpless mindless aspects of the Heralds on Braize? Or, if his Honor part restrains him from directly ordering it like that, why wouldn't some vengeful Fused do it on their own initiative? There are currently at least 2 such daggers that we know of in the Cognitive Realm, with Felt and Shallan, but there is no reason why there couldn't be more.

They very much inform Dalinar's final decision. In fact, it would have been impossible without them. They provide clues to finding Mishram and inform the decision to set her free. They are very likely to be important for those characters involved who will be instrumental in the second half of SA, but that's beyond the scope of this book.

Because Hoid always has the epilogues. And his part in chapter 147 comes before Shallan's. Here is what Ulaam says about the time dilation on Roshar from the Scadrian perspective: Shallan has been travelling for months Rosharan time to get to the former location of Cultivation's perpendicularity. Dilation was clearly becoming less extreme by that point, since according to Kelsier it is going to be 1:8 at the most once it is all done. As to the scouts, maybe Harmony wanted his own sources of information, rather than whatever crumbs came his way from others via cosmere post? Maybe having his people out there helps him stretch his perception to wherever they are?