Diomedes

I mostly loved the interaction between Kaladin and Bridge 4, also Shallan and Kelek, lots of hugs for everybody! Also the stare, when Kaladin did not want to say goodbye, was hilarious. Hopefully that party in Azir will take place despite Shallan and Adolin`s problems. I really would love to see some Adolin- Kaladin -Shallan interaction, of which we did not have that much in RoW. Was the "sense of urgency" Kaladin felt related to the attack, which happened just senteces before? Maybe this could be due to his soul having a connection with his friends? That would be kind of cool. On Shallan`s taking the identity of Drehy and making Radiant real: I remember having had a discussion on Shallan creating illusions in the battle of Thaylen, when Ob came out. But I dont know which thread it was. Anyways she literally send out pieces of her soul to die and be resurrected: Makes sense this is brought up here again.

but they were not worshipped by the Danwsingers? Somehow I don`t think "spren" in "Wind Stone and spren" of the Eila Stele means all "sentient spren and Honor and Cultivation". There is something we do not know yet.

we don`t The Stele also states: Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god. The Humans were worshipping Odium. How Honor and Cultivation came in is debatable. They were not the original gods of the Singers, hence they would have been named as such by the Stele. Maybe they rushed into the system to prevent Odium taking over Roshar? Some sort of theory is forming in my mind... Taln the patron of the Stonewards is also called Stoneisnew. Perhaps he took over the religious place of Stone, literally becoming the "new" Stonegod.

I noticed Taln has the name "Stoneisnew". Arguably, he took the place of the Old Stone god and became the "new" Stone god.

Well it could be anybody, but as far as we are led to believe up to this point Jasnah is the best candidate. Unless Sanderson is messing with us, which, granted, is also very likely.

The thing is, Kaladin is not very good at playing the flute, like at all. And he is not going to learn it in a couple of days. So it is more like Kaladin playing the flute horribly and Szeth dancing while trying not to run away as fast as he can. Which is still hilarious.

Personally, I don`t like the chars being split up again. Part of why I liked WoR so much was all the chars interacting with each other on the Plains. Part of why I did not like RoW was Kaladin being isolated in the tower. Adolin in Azimir- maybe a diplomatic mission again? Jasnah at Thaylen city, idk honestly. Sigzil and Venli at the Shattered Plains - them looking for the surviving Listeners and Brandon tying back to the old books WoK and WoR. Shallan, Renarin, and Rlain. Most likely at Urithiru because Shallan needs protection against the Ghostbloods. Plus there is way more to the Recreance than we know so far, as was expected. I never bought the "cosmological disaster" explanation. Dalinar and Navani in the spiritual realm? So it isn`t Shallan`s plot to do so, as we were led to believe.

Well it speaks of the Heralds and the Winds having been the only witnesses still alive for the cleansing. And they have vanished. Therefore it must be an event in the distant past for which their are no other Sources, apart from the two other ones. (Stormfather and Cultivation?) Also the cleansing of the Shin leadership would hardly be decribed as the cleansing of Shinovar as a country. There is more to this (though my spitballing above probably is not it).

Kaladin taking up the title would mean something happened to Navani. I don`t like this at all. And if Ishar is in Shinovar, how is Szeth going to "cleanse" Shinovar? Fighting of all the Shin Surgebinders and Shardholders would be a tough job, but Ishar, who is the best fencer alive, on top of that? More questions and questions. I noticed the similar phrasing between Szeth`s mission to "cleanse" the Shin leaders and the historic "cleansing of Shinovar" spoken of in the epigraph. This is surely intentional. There has to be some connection between the two events. Perhaps something similar was historically about to happen to Shinovar as what happened on Ashyn or what Shattered the Shattered Plains. But it was stopped in the last minute, and left Shinovar vulnerable to destruction if just a little bit of, for a lack of a better term, "destructive" Surgebinding was exercised. This would be a good moment to fully reveal what happened in the Recreance. Could this explain the Shin pacifist attitude and their special relationship to shards? Because they could destroy Shinovar very easily if they are not very careful? Maybe Szeths ends up unintentionally destroying Shinovar, and he is the guy referred to in the deathrattle: "A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears." Edit: @teknopathetic Taln gets a book in the second half. The others not so much. Maybe he vanishes and reappers again.

I like this version way more than the last. I can`t exactly pinpoint it but the emotional impact was somehow heightened in a way that I really like. Plus all the new information about the wind and the tones of Roshar. How Wit is reading a romance novel in the beginning was also a cool touch. Is that supposed to forshadow an upcoming romance plot with Kaladin? One can only hope he is going to find some well deserved happiness.

And all that inverstiture from Honor flowing around that he can corrupt or make subservient to his intent, like a deadeyed sharblade or a shardplate. I personally think Dalinar will lose the contest and wil serve as general for Todium`s army of among the stars, with an army of Radiants loyal to Odium( like the Skybreakers).Its just and idea though not a theory which I thought through.

I also thought about this. Maybe it is connected to the revitalization of Urithiru. The place is so heavily invested now, that the borders between the physical and spiritual realms could be diffusing. Kind of like when Dalinar "united" the realms at the end of OB and then heard Evi from the spiritual realms speaking to him. I don`t think Tanavast was talking to Dalinar or Gavilar the way he is speaking to Kaladin now though.

Well, time does not exist in the spiritual realm, or is "irrelvant" to quote the coppermind wiki article. So all souls of all people, who have lived in the past, who live in the present or will live in the future are there. Also from all worlds not just Roshar because space does also not exist in the spiritual realm. But we don`t know of course how any of this works. I am very excited to find out in KoWT.

There is an really old theory that there is something up with Rosharan afterlive. Theory: Roshar's Afterlife and the Tranquiline Halls As this book will feature a trip to the spiritual realm, it would be fitting for someone dead to talk to Kaladin. We already saw Evi forgiving Dalinar at the end of OB. And it was probably Tien himself who was present in Kaladin`s vision at the end of RoW.

Yes you are right, Navani contacted Kaladin via the Sibling by "popping" into his head. The parallel stil stands of some unknown force contacting a main char through mysterious means at the beginning of both books at Urithiru.

I was more reminded of how the Sibling contacted Navani at the beginning of RoW. And given Sanderson obsession with symmetries in his plots in SA, that would be an argument for the voice being some benevolent force be it Tanavast or someone else. if you did not not notice, here are some symmetries in plot arcs: OB and RoW both feature a roadtrip through Shadesmar with Adolin and Shallan Kaladin visits Hearthstone in the beginning of both books. In WoR Sadeas is the main villain, in RoW Rayse/Odium is the main villain. Both are assassinated in a shocking plot twist at the end of both books. At the end of WoR Dalinar bonds the Stormfather, at the end of RoW Navani bonds the Sibling. And now both RoW and KWT feature an unidentified voice popping up in a main char head at the beginning of the book. I guess there are more, but those were the ones which came immediatly to mind for me. @CtrlAltDepressed I don`t think it is Cultivation. She would have different methods available to contact someone than randomly talking to them in their head. But it is still possible.

From the perspective of the Alethi they have two choices, either take the deal and go home now or wait and never go home at all for the rest of their life, in case Dalinar loses the duel. They will not bet on the outcome of the duel and take the sure chance to go to their beloved homeland now. Alethkar is mostly bound together by force. if that pressure cannot be exerted anymore, it falls apart. Like I said the puppet highprince face will insurrections from their own ranks or take the deal anyways. Dalinar vehemently opposed Jasnahs plan saying it would cause massive social upheaval. Navani also shared his concern. In the same chapter Navani also worries about the political influence of the Vorin church. She is a smart woman, she will have her reasons. The church is weakened for sure, but they are facing an existential threat. If "God is dead", the Heralds madmen, who needs the church anyways? This means a wholesale abolition of their organisation. They will fight with everything they have to ensure the survival of their organisation. The Fused are dependent on Odium to be reborn. Only the Heavenly Ones betrayed Odium, because their surges are close to Honor, the rest will not betray Odium so easily. The Singers dont exist as a unified people, there are multiple nations of Singers as are of Humans. As you said yourself about the relationship between Jah Keved and Alethkar. If Odiums plan is to betray the Alethi Singers, to gain an advantage for their cause as a whole then the Regals and the Fused will go along with it. As the last epigraphs of RoW say, the Fused is looking forward to lead human armies. Therefore his allegiance to Singers of all nations, because they are Singers, is not that pronounced. This is your own theory. According to the contract he is bound to the system either way. I did not say he would, but he will take the deal to become neutral. Adolin loves his father, but he loves his country and his people more and he will do what he thinks is best for it.

tldr: My theory proposes Taravangian is going to outmanouver Dalinar politically by making the majority of the Alethi army defect from him, therby undermining the contract. Finally, he is going to blackmail Dalinar by threatening mass violence against the Singers into forfeiting the duel. The contract: “If I win that contest, you will remain bound to the system—but you will return Alethkar and Herdaz to me, with all of their occupants intact. You will vow to cease hostilities and maintain the peace, not working against my allies or our kingdoms in any way.” The way I see it the loophole in the contract is how it binds the actions between Odium and his allies and Dalinar and his allies. Neutral parties, however, are not mentioned and can do whatever they want. Therefore, if Taravangian managed to make a large chunk of the Alethi Highprinces and their subjects to be neutral at the time of the duel, they are not bound by the contract. 1. Taravangian`s bargain So how would he do it? By offering the Alethi to return them to their homeland and to reinstating the princes in their princedoms. In return they would have to break their allegiance to Dalinar and Queen Jasnah and become neutral. If a majority of the Alethi highprinces take the deal that means most of Alethkar is neutral and cannot be given away by Taravangian in case he loses the duel, because it is not his to give away in the first place. This way Taravangian can make sure he cannot lose. The neutrality needs to be genuine however. If it was not, the loophole in the contract would not apply. The entire social order would be reverted to the state it was before the Desolation happened. This includes reinslaving the Singers in Alethkar. But remember: Taravangian`s goal is the salvation of mankind, as was his request of the Nightwatcher. He does not actually care for the Singers. There are a ton of issues lying in between Dalinar and the Alethi. Nr. 1 Queen Jasnah is a heretic who wants to abolish slavery. Hardly something that makes her endearing to the Alethi as a whole. Nr. 2 Dalinar married his brothers sister Navani, which is basically incest in Vorinism. He also is a heretic who claims “God is dead”. Therefore the entire Vorin church works vehemently against him as was a plot point in OB. Nr. 3 The political situation was at the brink of civil war between Sadeas and Dalinars faction to begin with in WoK and WoR. Sadeas soldiers defected to Rayse in OB. Dalinar quashed their dissent, by making them dependent on him in Urithiru. If Dalinar cannot apply that pressure anymore, his alliance falls apart. Dalinar appointed highprinces loyal to him, who would face insurrections from within their ranks, if the bargain is made public. Nr. 4 Kaladin Stormblessed is not in Urithiru to rally the people behind Dalinar. Nr. 5 Jah Keved a Vorin kingdom already went over to Odium, why not a lot of the Alethi highprinces as well? Nr. 6 The Knights Radiant are traitors according to Vorin tradition Nr. 7 Taravangian is a masterful politician, Dalinar is not. Nr. 8 Sadeas murder. This secret has to come out at some time and is going to make Dalinar seem like a fraud who only talks about Honor when it suits him. I also do think Adolin is going to take the deal as Highprince of House Kholin, becoming not like Dalinar not like Taravangian but "his own kind of wrong", as he said in RoW. He has a very strained relationship with Dalinar and also loves his homeland and his people, an endearing trait, which is working in Odiums`s favour in this case. We had Shallan flirting with the Ghostbloods in RoW, Dalinar almost becoming Odiums champion in OB, and Kaladin siding with Moash for a while in WoR. As symmetries are a big deal in SA, I think it is now Adolin`s turn to have such kind of an arc in the next book. He is probably going to confess to murdering Sadeas himself in order to undermine Dalinar. 2. Blackmaling Dalinar As the traitorous Alethi army will march down from the Oathgate in Kholinar they would subdue the Singer forces pretty easily. They are the best fighting force in all of Roshar and have shardbearers, the Singers don’t. Without the Fused, who are dependent on Odium to be reborn, they can hardly resist the homecoming Alethi. As they reunite with their countrymen who lived under Singer occupation these past years, they would turn to mass violence against the Singers to avenge their past indignations and to make sure they would never rise again. Taravangian would do his best to highten these urges of vengeance. We are probably talking of a large scale planned genocide against the Singers in Alethkar. Kind of like Dalinar did at Rathalas. Their has been quite some talk about that in the books, as I argued here. https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/92324-parshmen-singer-genocide-in-row/ As the duel approaches, Dalinar realizes he has already lost most of Alethkar, he needs to fight to avert his soul into falling to Odiums hands. Then Taravangian blackmails Dalinar: He can save the Singers in Alethkar from destruction, if he forfeits the duels. And so he does, but breaks his oaths and deadeyes the Stormfather, in order that all the power Dalinar possesses does not fall to Taravangian`s hand. The consequence is that Roshar is deprived of Stromlight. The Stormfather-deadeye part was argued multiple times elsewhere. Here for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kzwV0WYfTM This is the meaning of the death rattle: so the “night will rain, for the choice of Honor is Life”. Because Dalinar saves the Singers life, by deadeying the Stormfather.

So, spren don`t swear oaths("speak the words") and can`t betray them either. They are not Knights Radiant themselves right? When I read this in the book, I thought Aux used to be human and somhow through some machinations formed a Nahel bond with Nomad. Thoughts?

I would like to add it`s not a fight of Humans vs. Singers this time around. Quite a lot of Humans fight on Odium`s side (Sadeas` army, the Iriali, Jah Keved) and some Singers fight on Dalinar`s side. So it is a whole different kind of conflict compared to past Desolations. Odium`s (Rayses) game plan was to draw as many Humans to his side including Dalinar due to the difficulties you mentioned. As he mostly failed doing so regarding the Alethi, that plan did not work as well as intended. But we`ll see, I guess King T will be better at that job. Btw. I had similar ideas as you did and wrote a theory based on it a while ago, that Odium intended to draw Humans to his side by inciting anti-Singer Hatred. I guess I will need to update that one in some time to come.

Just a few points. I refer you to epigraph WoR 41 This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal;” If the Recreance did not happen in the middle of the fight with the SIngers, why then the feeling of Betrayal? Or rather who were they fighting against, if not against the non-imprisoned Singers.? There is a piece to the puzzle we do not know yet. That`s what is Nale is telling us. As Szeth commented: Nale is interpreting the law as he sees fit, as he has "become" the law. De facto he has gone mad like all the other Heralds. What about freedom from Alethi rule? Enslaved peoples seeking refuge, fugitives from the law, etc. There are people living near the North Pole IRL, which is surely less hospitable than the wastelands. If the Listeners were able to survive, so are some humans. Besides, there were dozens expeditions to Akinah, even though there were tons of deadly currents and never has a vessel come back from there. Somone is always desperate enough to look for profit in nlikely regions. And the Shattered Plains are on the doorstep of Alethkar. A taliking Singer would be as strange on Roshar as a sentient horse would be to us. There has to be some supernatural reason, why the Shattered Plains were obscured from the world. Ah and another thing, like I said in my original post, Singer Radiants are a very recent phenomenon, I still think that the downfall of the original Radiants has made that possible.

O boy you really took your time with my post; But I do have counterarguments So first off, I do think it is a very strange coincendence that the Recreance happened during the time of the False Desolation. Too strange, if you ask me. There has to be some causal link between the two. First of, of course I did not know of this WoB. The Questioner opened up with an issue of chronology (How close is the enslavement of the parshmen to the Recreance, timeline-wise?), Brandon answered it was a couple of decades, therby referring to the wholesale enslavement of the Singers, The next question therefore refers to the wholesale imprisonement factoring into the decision of the Recreance. He does not say that there were no enslaved Singers prior to the Recreance. This brings me to the issue of chronology. We have multiple events here. 1) the event at the Feverstone keep (happened as fighting with the SIngers was still going on, and they were not ripped off their forms yet; 2. The Imprisonement of BAM 3. The Recreance proper. The Recreance was apparently not one single event but two ones, as different orders "gave up". Brandon is refering to the span and the causal link between event 2) and 3) and does clearly not refer to event 1. Besides he does clearly say that the enslavement was "absolutly" a factor in the decision, which is a bit of an argument for my case. "But in the days leading to the Recreance", Ob p. 1052, is the correct timeframe given by the Stormfather. This did not refer to literal days but, from the perspective of the SF to a time epoch, which lasted long enough for the KR to forget what their human origin was. This could well be thounsands of years. The gem archive speaks of the days of the False Desolation, when the Singers were of course not enslaved, but rather fighting the Humans. (chapters 77, 80, 81 Honor is more than keeping Oaths, the attitude you describe here would fit for the Skybreakers, who happen to not participate in the Recreance (what a "coincidence"). For all other orders moral questions are part of what makes them Radiants. Corrupted, I have to admit, would be the wrong term. Rather guided by wrong beliefs like the Honor Spren at Lasting Integrity regarding the Humans. Odium is hardly a reliable source of Information; Maya said "to save", which fits your theory just as mine; Regarding the Stormfather: He says he was "childlike" during these events, his account lacks important context. What kind of Surges used in which way would destroy Roshar? it was Odium`s Surges that destroyed Ashyn not Honor`s. I think it is a bit more complicated than KR exist, therefore Roshar gets destroyed. I think it is the continous clash of Odium and Honors Surges that was feared by the Radiants, a perpetual Desolation, If it was just the Surges, how would the enslavement of the Singers factor in the decision for the Recreance, as attested by your WoB? Kaladin does not know anything on the Recreance and was just speculating. Given that each and every one of the KR made this decision does speak to a common, not an individual decision. But would the Spren remember their past periods of bondage with their previous KR? Syl hardly remembers anything from her previous knights. They needed something different than a collective breaking of Oaths in order for the Spren to remember. Deadeyes were of course not intended. That is was what the Radiants intended. But granted to your WoB, there probably was not a cover up by the Radiants, only by Cultivation. Point taken You misunderstood me here. Why was there all these millenia no Alethi Higprince or entrepeneur seeking riches beyond Alethkar in say for instance gigantic Chasmfiends, that stumbeled upon the Listeners living just at the border of Alethkar? Was there no group of slaves or peasents desperate enuogh trying to find same farmable land ? You can travel through the wastelands to the Shattered Plains in wagons btw. as Shallan did. I think ist safe to assume she has ways of influencing events on Roshar beyond the Nightwatcher. Perhaps she does have a secret society like Harmony does? But seriously there are so many different ways to think of its hard to choose from. Honor was also based on Roshar just as Cultivation and he founded the Heralds and protected the KR to serve his interests.

1) The Recreance and the “False Desolation” First a few preliminary thoughts. The Recreance happened during the "False Desolation", in which BAM handed out Forms to the Singers, as Jasnah concluded in chapter 56 of OB by inspecting Dalinars vision of the Recreance. The Humans in Dalinars vision also appear to be a very multi-ethnic group, a kind of coalition that only came together to fight against the Singers in a Desolation. The following two epigraphs confirm this, as the “sentiment of betrayal” was surely regarding the war against the Singers and not some other human group, which would not have access to surges. The last epigraph suggests that all these events were connected somehow. “This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal;” WoR chapter 41 epigraph. "Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her." OB chapter 80 epigraph. “I was there when Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured. I know the truth of the Radiants, the Recreance, and the Nahel spren RoW.” Ch. 94. Epigraph. (Kalak speaking) 2) The Discovery As the original Radiants faced the False Desolation one thing was made patently clear: The Heralds had lied to them, when they said that the Humans or Team Honor had “won” the wars of the Desolations. Because here was BAM, handing out void forms and leading a Desolation in all but name. This must have caused some considerable consternation and a desire to know what actually happened. I think they figured out pretty quickly that the Heralds had walked away from the Oathpact at the cost of Taln staying back. That was pretty easy to find out given the nine swords in Shinovar. They learned that they were in this kind of limbo state inbetween Desolations and Peacetimes. Odium would come back eventually. I do think however that Taravangian was right in seeing the discovery of the Humans as Odium`s original people being the “fact” that caused the Recreance. But as with many other things, this lacks its proper context in order to be meaningful. 3. Singer Slavery Here comes my actual theory. I think the Singers being reduced to servitude was not a consequence of BAM`s imprisonment. They already had been made slaves sometime after the Humans had “won” the war of the Desolations, let`s say after 1000 years. The False Desolation probably started out as a mass slave rebellion of the Singers. So why did the KR accept Singer slavery? Institutions corrupt over time. The Vorin church was founded during the time of the Heralds as well. The Skybreakers were a KR order and currently serve Odium. Or take the storming Honor Spren of Lasting Integrity, which condemned all Humans based on the false belief that the Radiants had killed their spren en masse during the Recreance. The Knights Radiants could likewise condemn all Singers based on the false belief, that Singers were by nature Odium`s people, like the orcs in LotR, and Humans Honor`s chosen ones. This should be seen as the core ideology, which justified the enslavement of a large portion of Singers, if not all of them. As the Radiants figured out the secrets of the Eila Stele, the core ideology upon which they had justified the enslavement of large numbers of an entire species fell apart. 4. The Recreance As we know from Way of Kings slavery is not compatible with Honor. Sadeas used slaves as bridgemen, Dalinar did not. The Knights Radiants therefore discovered something equally shocking: their own order had become corrupted to the ways of Odium as according to the Eila Stele all human beings can be. If things would go on unchanged forever, the Knights Radiants as a whole would become servants of Odium, as the Skybreakers are now. So the Radiants decided to end their order altogether by breaking the Nahel bond and telling the Spren in Shadesmar this was done in malicious intent to make sure no new bonds would be created in the future. This way they wanted to ensure no corrupted KR institution would ever arise to make a resistance to Odium impossible, once he did come back. Secondly, to eliminate the reason for anti-singer prejudice the KR wanted Humanity to forget millennia of wars against the Singers as Voidbringers. In this regard they conducted a large scale cover up operation to ensure key information was lost, like that the Parshmen were the Voidbringers or the location of Urithiru. There is a certain symmetry to Dalinar`s arc in OB I think. Humanity, like Dalinar, had to forget, in order to be make a rebirth of an honorable KR order largely impartial to the Singers possible. The gift of forgetting goes for the Spren as well. They could only "forgive" the Singers as Leshwi put it, because they were so mad at the Humans in the first place. The same also goes for the Singers of course. The fact is there are now Singer Radiants, which had not existed for all those millienia of Desolations. I think the Recreance has made that possible. I also think that the KR, like Dalinar, had help from Cultivation in this regard. Did you ever wonder how a gigantic tower in the middle of Roshar could go unnoticed for millenia? Or that a community of sentient Singers with convinient knowledge of millenias past could be hidden from Humanity though being situated right at the border of Alethkar? Cultivation made sure it stayed that way.

@crème de la crèmling great post, but you did not adress the issue of 20-30 years between migration, and conquest/ oathpact. I don`t think there were two oathpacts. I think one way to resolve the timeline issue is the Oathgates. They probably already existed during the migration or rather, they were constructed to enable the migration. Subsequently they enabled the conquest of the countries outside of Shinovar. So why would the Humans get out of Shinovar so quickly? To gain land and to become rich, obviously. Some poor farmer working on a rich estate in Shinovar could become a rich landowner himself by settling the neighboring kingdoms. Think about the settlement of America which was not caused by a shortage of land in Europe. We also don`t know wether all of Roshar was settled by Humans during the Oathpact. It is likely imo that only the western half was settled by Humans and the eastern half by Singers. Also Humans seem to have a way higher rate of reproduction than Singers. The Listeners stayed a couple of thousand years near the Shattered Planes, without ever growing their population to more than we see in tWoK. The Human population rose probably very quickly in Shinovar, which led to the settlement of the neighboring kingdoms. This made the ancient SIngers worry and they turned therefore to Odium.

I noticed both WoK/ WoR ( set A) and OB / RoW (set B ) have common characteristics in plot structure and character development, that makes them mirror each other in a way. Since symmetries (like Keteks) are very much a part of SA worldbuilding, I do not think this is coincidental, as Pattern said art is kind of like math.... (A): centered on the Shattered Plains vs OB/ RoW (B): centered on Urithiru; Unrelated: (B) both feature a trip through Shadesmar with Adolin and Shallan and to Hearthstone with Kaladin; (A) at the end Dalinar bonds to the Stormfather (B) at the end Navani bonds to the Sibling (A) main chars Kaladin / Shallan a baited romantic relationship; (B) Dalinar/ Navani an actual romantic relationship (A) flashback chars Kaladin/ Shallan both had trauma in their past, (B) Dalinar and Venli inflicted trauma on a large scale in their past but regret it later; (A) Sadeas is the main villain; (B) Odium is the main villain, both die at the end of the respective set. (A) Szeth is a menace or a minor villain,; (B) Szeth does not really do that much (A) Szeth holds the Honorblade, with which Gavilar is murdered in the beginning (B) Szeth holds Nightblood with which Odium is murdered in the end. Let`s see weather you can find more symmetries, I am sure I missed a lot Oh and this also means the next installment is going to be the odd one sticking out, which is fitting for Szeths book.