Wreith

Urithiru is flat on one side, so it's not symmetrical, thus if it has a cymatic pattern it's not from a normal perspective. or maybe that's part of the corruption. Its symmetry was compromised somehow.

I hope he switches and helps someone leave the physical realm instead.

Dalinar's vision of what we believe was the Recreance and also one of the epigraphs both indicate that Windrunners were one of the first to leave. If Dalinar's vision is accurate, then the Stonewards left at the same time. This appears to have been during a war, and we know the Windrunner oathes are about protecting, which should extend to their allies. It stands to reason that the Stonward oaths should include something along the lines of standing firm Whatever was discovered caused these two orders to stop fighting, which I expect would break their oaths. It's then possible that we can have a domino effect of sorts, Bondsmiths encouraging the KRs to disband Edgedancers ignoring pleas to remain. Lightweavers lying to themselves that the world didn't need them. We don't know a lot of the secondary oaths, so this is about as far as I can take this theory at the moment. Suffice to say I think it happened quickly, but not necessarily instantaneously. Given the wide range of interpretations of the shared oath, I feel like it would be difficult to break really. The oath that Kaladin straight up broke when he almost killed Syl was his second one.

This is sort of off the cuff: If Adonalsium was a massive cosmic force that attained sentience, I accept that the sentience would have Identity. But when it was shattered, I would expect the intellegence, the Identity, to go away. Thinking of Sel, splinters there after the shattering had to reattain sentience, they don't seem to have sprung up already having Identity. Thus I think that the 16 Shards were again relegated to mere cosmic forces, but they might be so much bigger than the Identies trying to contain them that they are forming their own Identies again like we see splinters doing. These Shard Identities begin to override the Identity of the Holder. I don't think the Intents had Identity immediately following the shattering, but it's possible they developed Identity over time. Splinters and the case of the new holder for Harmony are really the only opportunities we have to derive information for this. It's also possible soulcasting could offer insight, a-la Stick's Identity

I'm not really sure you can have a standalone discussion of the Dawnshards. I think the Dawnchant, Dawncities, and thus Dawnsingers will all have to be taken together to sort this out. Along those lines, as I was thinking about this, I remembered the line from Hoid/Kal's story of fleet in WoR. emphasis mine. "claim the dawn" is a rather curious expression here because racing a storm would mean Fleet was running East to West, toward dusk, not dawn. Hard to tell if this is actually relevant or just poetic license. It is, however, Hoid.

He hasn't actually spoken oaths that we know of. I meant more his new seeming loyalty to Nale. poor choice of words, sorry

I think, as an aspiring Skybreaker, Szeth has no higher authority to appeal to in Shinovar than the Shamans, and thus wouldn't have legal grounds to attack them on his own volition. I think his new oaths may prevent the vengeance we've been expecting

This was my thought. I think Shin are going to come looking for it.

I'm not sure I would expect to see more of the same type of correspondence. I expect if we see something similar, it might be something like a 17th shard operation report or something, since we know members are (were?) present on world. The options are limited if Brandon really intends to keep Cosmere wide interaction at Shardic and Easter Egg levels

The last few posts here seem to be confusing the death of the host and a 'shattering'. Honor hasn't been taken up because, we believe, the shard has been shattered. Tanavast, the Shardholder of Honor is also dead. Ruin and Preservation were not shattered. Their shardholders were killed, but the shards themselves remained intact and were thus immediately available to be picked up by someone else.

Ah, that makes sense. That's not really voidbinding though. It's described as using Stormfather's knowledge to complement Shallan's weaving. It isn't a power, just geographical information. If other Unmade are as interested in gathering intel as we theorize Moeloch is, then I don't see a problem with an Unmade-Stormfather being "helpful" in this instance.

His explicit purpose for creating a Highstorm contrary to the Everstorm was to wipe the slate clean He wasn't anticipating saving anyone. I don't know what your second point is referring to. Can you elaborate?

I agree that this is extremely unlikely, but before the deluge begins: It's possible that the visions are true but Stormfather has still been corrupted. If the merging of Tanavast with the Stormfather "hardcoded" the visions, they would potentially still trigger even if the Stormfather was compromised. We know from one of these visions that there is an Unmade capable of corrupting lesser spren in the past. Perhaps it has grown in strength and corrupted the Stormfather. I don't think the bond is really with the Unmade because I don't think that would result in surgebindings for Dalinar. I do however think it's possible we shouldn't trust the Stormfather as much as we do. And it's worth pointing out that Stormfather was opposed to any of his under-spren bonding Radiants again. Maybe there's more to that than the fear of broken oaths.

oooh, I much prefer this. Remembering through Navani. And until next week, it's entirely plausible because all we see him remember is Evi's name and face. Once he starts remembering things Navani shouldn't know, the theory goes away, but it's nice for now. hooray false hope. I want to see a traditional Vorin wedding so we know what the usual oaths would entail. I currently believe they would end at death like the marriage oaths I'm familiar with, but if they don't feature that condition it's possible Dalinar is still somehow bound to Evi which I think would be interesting.

He was there for the Recreance

I think it's safe to say that Brandon could say Odium doesn't do something because the Unmade are the ones that technically do it, yes

The end of that response is what I take as relevant to this question. We've seen one Unmade corrupt lesser-spren, but nothing points to corruption of information or direct control of individuals. The Thrill is the closest we've got to the latter and we've seen characters actively ignore it. Also, in regard to OP, Tanavast implies that all of the Shards have *some* ability to see the future, Cultivation is just better at it than he was. His statements don't even mean that she is the best at it among the shards. It is theoretically possible that Odium is better at it than she is, though I suspect not.

The order of the epigraphs means that it doesn't. The one you quote comes from ch5 pg17 of in-world Words of Radiance. Several later chapters reference the KRs being together And the "Secret that broke the Knights Radiant" was discovered later. See the ch38 epigraph and then ch40

These all indicate that Nightblood can feed on stormlight, but that's not really the question. The question at hand is how can Szeth use Nightblood since he's lost his ability to draw in stormlight, no longer having access to an Honorblade. edit: I realize having replied that you may have merely been assisting The One Who Connects in his search. in which case, kudos. endEdit I thought about this, and it seems to me that if proximity isn't enough, then maybe he could either strike through an invested gem or possibly affix a stone to Nightblood like they do Shardblades. I'm not exactly sure how the second one would work because Nightblood is unlikely to change form to accommodate it like the Shards do. Also it would probably have to be chaged/reinfused after each use.

That is a very interesting point, but I still don't take it as conclusive. It could just as easily have been that Nale refounded them much later. I'm not trying to be difficult. I realize that one order stuck around and all evidence we currently have points to the Skybreakers. Everyone seems to take this point as given, but we debate every other seemingly obvious implication.

There's a WoB somewhere that to get surgebinding, you would have to spike the spren and the Radiant. I'm not sure how that relates to just the intake of stormlight. here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/59412-gencon-2017/#comment-598344 not the original that I was looking for, but contains the statement.

He remembers it in WoK chapter 12 after his race with Elhokar. I think it was always clear to him. He just didn't know how to do it. He's had at least a dozen visions, of which we've only seen half. I feel it's likely that he's had glimpses of other threats that we just don't know about yet. My issue with the absence of the Parshmen in his visions isn't just with the visions we've seen. It's that Dalinar has enough experience with the Parshendi that he should have recognized them in a vision if they were present, but there's no mention at all.

Dalinar says that the opening of the last vision we see in WoK is the same as the first vision. in it we get So I believe he WAS pretty clear on that point.

I don't suppose you could find that theory? The Diagram epigraph about Moelach seems to indicate that he causes the deathrattles. I guess I just assumed he also supplied the content, but it makes sense that Odium is getting glimpses of the cognitive realm to use for his own information, he just can't/doesn't bother to control who else hears it. I hadn't considered it that way. I'll just edit this since I was the last to post. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1097 The first one is the WoB I had in mind when I responded here initially

To answer the posts title WoR ch.23 epigraph My theory is that Odium is corrupting the diagram, not directly rewriting, but by providing the Deathrattles that are being used to supplement it. I don't necessarily think the original diagram was something of Odium or that the original words have been changed. This could obviously be wildly wrong as we're only aware of a small portion of the diagram Again with the Syl and Pattern possibly being manipulated, there is evidence provided in Dalinar's vision at the Purelake that another of the Unmade is capable of corrupting spren it comes into contact with. I doubt that happened in the scene you're referencing. I think they were just aware and anxious about events I also think we have a WoB that Odium can't really affect things the way Ruin did, but I'd have to hunt it.