Archer
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Everything posted by Archer
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I realized too late that my fake(ish) claim didn't match the style guide of the other roles and spent the rest of the game dreading having to explain that Dead people getting scanned for their alignment/role was a problem for us. We didn't have any scans and felt that faking a scan role was a bad idea for reasons I'll explain later. Technically I was one, but I didn't think to ask Kas what results I could get. The GMs gave some odd clarifications this game, but that might be on me for assuming they wouldn't divulge information that wasn't in the role text. Our dead elims... seemed very evil. Except for the one we wanted you to think was evil who everyone refused to suspect. So we did lose out on the talking potential - trying to connect ourselves to a mix option would have been a good use of our voice, for example. Like we did with JNV, entirely unintentionally. I don't think the elims could reasonably fabricate roles in this game. It seemed like the usual mechanics were in play, but if we claimed one and someone else said they had a similar role, we'd be outed over not knowing the flavor. If we claimed one that was detailed in thread by someone already, people seemed inclined to interrogate us enough about the nuances that it'd be revealed as a sham. We could fabricate one we hoped was unique enough to not have a similar counterpart in the distro, but the role mimicry role would out that if it came to it. Outright lies of that nature were probably one of the few ways we could be caught, so why risk it. We should have fake claimed actions though. Eg Bip should have gotten the jump on SE Buddy since that was a predictable duplicate role. But again, why risk being scanned lying to either anger someone who will stick around to disparage you, or clear a villager, or tie yourself to another elim. There was enough we didn't know that taking a big swing seemed like an unnecessary risk. On balance I know more lies succeed than fail, but we had a healthy respect for the village verification of claims agenda That PM is like 5 posts long :P. But I understand why
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I would have made it so casting your final vote perma kills you. It's a shame we never got to get into a hammer fight though, I'd be curious what the outcome would be. Forgot to mention, Tie Guy was a bit much in a world where mass claiming and enforcement and no elim Troll or Vote Manip allows for it to happen twice in a game and for the person to be scanned with confidence. I understand it's hard to anticipate thread conditions though. That said, if y'all had simply believed in e!Silh this would have gone so much easier >:-(
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This feels directed at someone but I can't figure out who :P. I like the approach. With all the claims in play and a loose expectation that I would never get something as good as a full role breakdown, the utility seemed low for an elim compared to say ensuring the NK went through. On this topic, I'll also note that the retroactive results were a terrifying prospect to deal with. I think Bip might have been outed for submitting an NK if the village had really gone after her and gotten good rolls.
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Good game, all. I'm still kicking myself over not anticipating the kill-blocking maneuver, but I'll chalk it up to the endurance element of the game being a bit much to handle at times. Thanks for running it, GMs, IM. Shoutout to @_Stick_. <3
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Having had this discussion previously, the challenge you run up against is v!Drake knows e!Drake isn't an issue, and e!Drake wants more death, so both will submit kills Also, the number of times I've accidentally clicked on the MR thread and gotten confused is getting ridiculous
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Intriguing!
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I need eye bleach
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All I've seen is a survival and a day kill. The village indicative part of their role is indefinitely surviving exes. That has yet to be tested E!Sart trying to split the vote for the Fadran exe to get hammered through is the best theory I've seen so far about why they did what they did
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Allegedly. E!him is a Thug who is bluffing. I'll believe Threadmaster is what he says it is only after we fail to exe him twice
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Checked the Shard. Had twenty notifications. Freaked out. Luckily it was because of Devo, not this game. But I do apologize, I've been pretty lazy here because I figured I'm going to die eventually anyway so might as well take the easy out and let you guys wrap things up. Orlok showed 2 elims among Ashbringer, Drake, TUN, Mat, Shining, Steeldancer, TJ, and me. Steeldancer+Shining is bad because we're shooting in a pool that's already been cleared. Steeldancer+Ashbringer is easily refutable with an exe of Ashbringer today. E!Ashbringer clears me, Mat, TJ, Drake. V!Ashbringer means we confirm his role/alignment, and then have more cleared villagers aka meat shields while we wittle down the suspect pool. I call that a win-win. Otherwise, I'm generally opposed to shooting within that pool. It makes more sense to target Biplet or Araris to hedge against e!Shining. Can someone confirm there's a reason e!Fae didn't just claim the Wiz scan-role-thing for cred? I'll note that it's weird that the PM Spider scans have started becoming about past actions instead of present ones. Best guess is still the GMs got bored and wanted to add variety. Ashbringer
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You really don't need to @ me, I swear I read the thread sometimes unprompted. Araris targeted TUN N1, apparently, which I read as the GMs are running low on content to share. :P. I don't quite understand what happened, but good job! I'm slightly annoyed at Drake for doing exactly what I feared he'd do, which is change picks at the last second and face no questions for it, but in this case it seems acceptable. We're kind of at the point and shoot phase of the game, and I that I haven't been scanned. Look ahead at some sample kills: Aman - NK N7 Drake - NK N8 Wiz - NK N9 Araris - parity Bip - parity Fae - exe D9 Ash - if Thug - CS N8 JNV - exe D8 Mat - if conf villager - CS N7 Archer -exe D7 I can't remember why but I had a good reason to think Araris was village. Since the village dead outnumber the elim teams' votes, we hammer e!Bip at parity. So unless Araris is evil, we win. Say people are confident in Araris and force his death, next likeliest option is probably Wiz is our parity representative. Wiz + Fae is an optional elim team composition, which is why I bumped Fae down to be exed D9 instead of Bip. That should ensure only one elim is left at the end of the game. But again, this requires none of the previous options to be evil, which I doubt. I'm feeling confident enough that I'm not going to dispute a rolexe. You're gonna have to clear me off the board eventually, there's better people to have hanging around at the endgame. 'Tis the fate of Smokers.
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See this is my point. E!you wins by murdering as many extra bodies as you can to drive closer to parity, and will continue to assert that it's an inevitability to facilitate that. If you're evil, you control your kill but not the exe, so ceding control to the exe is bad. There's ten players. Lets assume two remaining elims. N6: NK to 9. CS to 8. Aman kills for 7. D7: Exe to 6. N7: NK, CS to 4. Parity (which is a bad thing). You achieve parity after winning one exe. ~ What if didn't kill so much? N6: NK to 9. D7: Exe to 8. N7: NK to 7. D8: Exe to 6. N8: NK to 5. D9: Exe to 4. (NK (+CS?) for loss) N8 gives us another round of PM Spider scans. If Aman survives, he can block the NK at some point. And we get an extra week for people to expose themselves. Rushing towards the end is how we lose. As I said earlier, Mat's my pick for undercover conf vil + thread control contributor. Not a fan of the way they asked to be scanned in retrospect. I like the strategy of creating scarier media than the cat video to assert dominance *GM laughter*
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You're working from the presumption that you're innocent and I'm not, so our evaluations of your chances of hitting an elim are different I alluded to it earlier, but my scan revealed JNV was a PM Spider smh we explicitly reminded you to include Orlok's vote :P.
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My thinking yesterday was Fadran was playing the long game to normalize Kas votes, and it might have worked eventually. Obvious answer might be right and all that. Do we know if the game ends if its one villager at night but the dead elims could still NK them? Aman: everyone PM Wiz Also Aman: why didn't anybody message me? :(. This seems very village, tone-wise. I'd expect more desperation from an elim. Conf vil!Mat probably makes more sense, considering they're the only person to claim only one role. I still object to killing though. The numbers favor us getting clears faster than we kill off people if we don't. We still have scans from the Spiders and the potential to block kills.
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Not a fan of votes on the GM at what could be exlo Drake Fadran
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Me getting Confirmed Villager would be extremely Trolly. Quoted the wrong Drake post, but in response to this general conversation: it's a lot easier for you to shoot another villager if you have total impunity. You can make an argument in retrospect and sweep it under the rug. Whereas proposing your kill in advance and being scrutinized for it means you at least have to aim for a suspicious villager because it demonstrates you've thought it through and didn't, for example, make a terribly rash decision and shoot Aman quite unhelpfully. I realize that calling your shot exposes you to being blocked, but you can at least discuss it in a PM or drop an explanation of your kill near EOD. I can confirm that JNV is a PM Spider - Aman isn't aggressively gaslightning, probably. JNV has had a low thread presence, so I don't have a read on them. And risk two of them dying if either is scanned? And who makes a claim that's just, "I got told who a villager is at the start of the game"? It's unintuitive. You thinking vote manip is villagey is eerily similar to Silh's defense of themselves. I'm not entirely convinced TJ isn't evil.
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No, but I would advocate for your exe if you did. And frankly I think your kill should be negotiated tonight as a matter of accountability. But we might not get to that point. Here's what I'm looking at. Reasonable worst case scenario is two dead elims (Tani and Steel or Sart), 6 starting elims, and e!Drake. We mix today, the elims kill two people in the night, brings us to parity. Whereas you not killing gives us an extra exe at 5v;4e. The way I see it, if this is exlo, we kill you and go to a new Day at exlo but you're out of the picture.
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You didn't do your homework because of your dog? Would you agree that you not CSing from here on out gives us a better chance of winning, e!Ash possibilities aside?
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I can't really defend my role, besides noting that the fact I can't be cleared or PMed makes it balanced. I have wondered if e!Drake makes sense now in part because a village going against two kills per night needs some kind of Thug. I'd also like credit for being right about e!Steel, who I've suspected and been voting for for at least three cycles now. We're in the point and shoot phase of the game, so I understand voting me off. I'd prefer Drake though. Aman can kill too, but Drake is the more likely elim of the two and leads to an expedited endgame if he keeps killing. We're better off with a slow pace with the amount of decent trusts we have. I think Drake dying gives us an extra exe down the road and closes off the possibility of the elims shooting two green scans on Night (probably at the cost of e!Drake, but the damage would be done). Roleblocker TJ dying does help Drake's push towards the end here.
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Elims have to do that anyway, so might as well do it publicly for cred. You see that with VCs sometimes. The Sart thing is a very good question Ash Why would he need a minus vote thing if he can't be exed ever? The thing about confirmed villager is its such a good name. I feel like it's not made up. But it could easily be in the hands of an elim for obvious reasons and they claimed early for cred I'll buy that My quotes got sandwiched. That's ok there's nothing to defend against anyway. Any PMer can ask the GM what the menu of options are, as I did once someone mentioned a narrow list in thread. It sets up v!CS credences, reducing scrutiny. Thing is N1 I'm not sure they'd be confident that Tani would survive. It wasn't entirely clear that everyone would live, might have just been exe victims
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Makes sense to me, since from his perspective, the Orlok PoE was narrow. Orlok showed 2 elims among Ashbringer, Drake, TUN, Mat, Shining, Steeldancer, TJ, and me. If you're still on v!Shining, TJ looks like the best option there. If not TJ, Ashbringer, but we can clear that up today by either exing them to death (meaning they're evil) or failing to kill them (meaning they're probably okay). We're at 11 players. The potential cost of a mix outweighs the opportunity cost of exing an elim, because we come away with a strong case for v!Ash. I don't think we're near enough to parity that two kills in the Night sinks us, especially if we don't cause a death to the exe today
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I guess when you want a kill, Ash and you shall receive! Any objections to being exed today?
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Then you'll be charged with murder! But seriously, e!Tani+v!Drake doesn't make much sense because Tani is game throwing. e!Tani+e!Drake kind of makes sense because it explains the easy Tani claim. v!Tani makes zero sense because they're lying about their alignment. For... no reason? It has a material impact in that it attracts RBs to try and block the NK, so they're actively hurting the village. I feel like the GMs would recommend against it. I count twelve living players. Subtract two for tonight's deaths. 5 to 5 would be parity, so if you're reading this, Zombies, stick around tomorrow at EoD just in case. But I really don't believe we've hit nobody evil. Sart seemed off. Silh too. And I'm still okay with Dannex's death. We're probably closer to 7 to 3 next round.
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Counterpoint would be that the exe the GMs thing is kind of a joke. It's easier just to get over parity. My theory is that the tie going through invited scans of Steel to confirm the validity of his tie guy results, which obviously resulted in him being discovered to be an elim. I haven't seen any reason to disbelieve the scan, except perhaps that it's convenient that Randby wasn't RBed and Araris didn't check. If you accept e!Start due to then being a loose cannon, why do they feel the need to mess with that Steel exe at EOD? I know TJ legitimately scanned Mat and told us about it. I know Ash might have a village indicative role. So I'm actually slightly positive about both, but my gut says TJ. The challenge of that question is that e!Drake would mean a smaller team.
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What if Sart and Steel are elims, but Steel is a powerful role. Steel's afraid of being scanned to verify the results of their Tie Guy thing because that would show they're really a [What You Don't Know, Goalkeeper, other role that has a weird interaction with scans or trolling etc]. So Sart tries to break the tie. Then Sart tries to mess with this exe. It's weird that Sart has chosen to look sus two times that relate to Steel - in retrospect I don't see them knowingly breaking the tie as much different than what they did today, and it looks scummy overall. Orlok showed 2 elims among Ashbringer, Drake, TUN, Mat, Shining, Steeldancer, TJ, and me. Steeldancer is a candidate. Lightly putting Shining down as not a teammate, but in an e!Start world maybe they needed it for some reason. TUN was NKed. Mat was scanned. I'm awesome. So 1 elim among TJ, Drake, Ash. My money would be on TJ there I've got a theory about Araris being able to add the number of votes that he has had added to him passively, which could make a tie. But ties are RNGed, not kill everyone.
