Bigmikey357

Stormfather says if Odium loses the content of champions all he really loses is time. He's in no danger of being shattered, he just cannot leave. The proof that Odium has lost every previous desolation is that he's still in system, Cultivation isn't shattered, and humanity still lives. None of these things would be true if Odium won. He reigns but his rule is still contested.

I still like the idea that Living Shardplate is composed of cousin spren. Syl's comment about having kids, training them to harass Kaladin to me seems like an indicator instead of a non sequitur. Here's how I envision the process working. We know that a Radient gains power with each Oath spoken and internalized. In RPG terms their MP bar goes up with each oath. At the 3rd oath they gain a sprenblade (most Orders); those blades are nearly infinitely malleable but their traditional, 'base' form is a blade. When the next oath is spoken, more investiture is available to the Radient, enough so that the head spren is able to direct their 'cousins' to become solid in the Physical Realm. The 'base' form for them is Plate but they are infinitely malleable as well. The higher spren establish the framework and the lesser spren that come to the call fill in the gaps, obeying the mandate to become solid. The lesser spren are not specific; they go to their places when called and go their own way when dismissed or are knocked out of the framework due to damage. Spren do not die. In dead plate, the Spren that came to call were locked into the framework, the base form and are only released when that part of the plate is damaged. When that section is regrown it's simply calling other like spren to fill in the part of the missing framework. It doesn't have to be the same spren answering the call, only the same type. If someone knocks a brick from the side of your house you replace it with another brick. And maybe the lesser spren do scream or feel pain, but they cannot voice it in a way anyone can hear. Do bacteria scream? Maybe, but who knows? A cake has a spren. Does that cake scream when you eat it? Again who knows? Just like a gem in the pommel allows a dead Shardblade to behave something like a living one, gemstones allow dead plate to perform some of the functionality of live Plate. Neither are malleable because that function requires a live mind to direct it; humans cannot interface directly with plate and couldn't even dismiss a blade without even the limited bond provided by the pommel gem. Stormlight is the energy source. Electricity powering equipment. Dead plates and dead blades are like computers operating in protected mode; limited function, basic features, no extras.

I'm not saying the Cryptics themselves would try to prevent Taravanginan from doing his thing, just that he cannot tell lies without his lie detector going off. The degree of difficulty in being deceitful and devious increases exponentially.

It might hinder his efforts at selling out the human race. Every time he lies his Cryptic would be humming.

Didn't work so well for Zane. Then again he was a complete monster and off his flipping rocker.

Calderis, I believe that we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I will say that there's merit to your theory however. It's all a matter of where Honor's power went when Tanavast died. Obviously a large portion went into Stormfather or else the KR could no longer work and Honor could not have left his interactive voice messages. With Shardic intervention, healing a broken Stormfather would be relatively easy. But here's where my interpretation differs from yours. The instances where SF appears unwell to you, I attribute that to him being a non-human entity incapable of rapid change without a bond. He doesn't truly understand humanity and without a bond he cannot. He's also governed by rules we have yet to understand fully, rules that by his nature he cannot violate. The problem I have with Shardic intervention healing SF of the damage incurred by a broken Nahel bond is that if you are right then SF should not be damaged at all. The amount of investiture that is available with even a shattered shard should be able to heal anything. That doesn't bother me as I think he's fine. We can agree that Mega Spren like SF/NW/SIB would not become Deadeyes with a broken bond, although damage would occur. To me Cusicesh displays the type of damage I would expect a Mega Spren would display were it were to suffer an abandoned bond by way of the Recreance. If Cusicesh sustained its damage by other means and instead SF was Melishi's bondmate then I would expect similar behavior from him before Tanavast dies and charges him with tasks. But there's no evidence in the historical record that says the Highstorm went wonky for a time after the Recreance. On Roshar that would be a huge deal, an extinction level event considering the ecological import of the Highstorm to flora and fauna. Honor would have had to step in immediately to prevent widespread environmental damage. Are we sure that Tanavast had the presence of mind in his final days to accomplish this? I for one do not believe it to be so. I could be wrong.

Sedition is defined as rebellion against a lawful authority. That's not quite the same as betrayal. It sounds to me like either Honor or Ishar were against such a powerful Order, with surges with the ability to bind Gods (at least fractional ones), having more than 3 members at a time. Looking at Dalinar clapping his hands and merging 3 Realms, I would tend to agree with them. The Unmade are not the only option besides the Big 3 that keep at least limited sapience in the Physical Realm without a Nahel Bond. Because the question I keep coming back to is who was Melishi bonded to? It wasn't the Sib, they were already withdrawing before the Recreance. It wasn't Nightwatcher; she's as normal as an avatar of Cultivation can be. It could have been the Stormfather, healed by merging with a large splinter of Honor after Tavanast died, but he seems to not had a break with consciousness at any time. He watched the Recreance as it unfolded and was pretty pissed about it. So if Melishi wasn't bonded to one of the Big 3 and could not have bonded an Unmade and remained a Knight Radient then other options must have existed. Spren are cognitive entity given form, created by anthropomorphosizing the basic forces of creation. When sentient beings think about something it becomes manifest. The bigger the concept, the more complex the thought, the more people think about a certain thing, the bigger the Spren. The Highstorm of Roshar is the most pervasive aspect of living there, of course there's going to be a spren that represents that concept. If the Sib is the Spren of Stone then likewise for it, judging from how the landscape is described. So where's the Spren of the Ocean? The Spren of the Moons? Or the Desert? On Roshar everything has a representation in the Cognitive Realm but concepts like these seem to be absent. They can't all have been unmade, can they?

The quote was that there were only only 3 at any one time and that they did not seek to increase their numbers for it would have been seen as seditious. To me this implies that there could be more than 3, that only cultural mores prevent them from expanding. That tells me that the Big 3 aren't the only Mega Spren a Bondsmith can make a Nahel Bond with. I keep coming back to Cusicesh and whatever is going on with it. The WOB says it's a step below the Big 3 and a step above the sapient spren of other orders. It looks to me like what would happen if you broke a Mega Spren. And if none of the Big 3 were bonded to Melishi at the Recreance then that's the being I would nominate.

Through these conversations about the nature of Mega Spren makes me believe that the Bondsmiths of old either had more options than what we have been told so far or the Sibling is actually multiple entities. We know Stormfather and Nightwatcher are 2 of the Spren that Bondsmiths get and that neither seem broken in such a way that a Radient breaking an oath would leave them. We know the Sibling was withdrawing before the Recreance occurred. We know that Melishi was the only Bondsmith at the time of the Recreance, yet none of the Bondsmith spren that have been identified fit what we've been shown of a spren with a broken oath. I may be off base; maybe SF was the one bonded and merging with Honor's essence prevented him from becoming the Mega Spren equivalent of a Deadeye. But until we find out more I will believe that Bondsmiths had more than 3 options.

Thought of something while listening to the podcast about the Heralds concerning Moash and the dagger. What if him killing Jezrian has something to do with Kaladin and the Windrunner Order. Crazy speculation. Moash is a villain that had he not turned would have been a Windrunner squire and probably would have eventually attracted an honorspren. What if it isn't coincidental that Moash, a potential Windrunner corrupted by Odium, was sent to kill the Herald associated with the Order he'd have joined? What if that connection was needed in order to make the dagger work like it did? It would make sense because Moash is the only proto-Radient Odium has turned so far, otherwise why strike and give warning to the surviving Heralds? Odium surely knows that they are connected and to strike one means all will feel it. If this is indeed the case then the conditions that need to be met to permanently kill a Herald are as follows: a dagger/sword/knife made of Odium's godmetal, the gemstone associated with the Order of the Herald to be killed, and at least a proto-Radient corrupted by Odium to wield the blade.

It's give and take. The power and Intent of the Shards lie in the Spiritual Realm, this Intent is filtered in the Cognitive Realm by the expanded mind of the Vessel to be expressed in the Physical. The Shardcasters believe that describing the Intent of any Shard in one word is sort of an exercise in futility (and I agree). To me that means the Vessel and his/her core personality has much to do with how Shardic Intent is expressed. Take Harmony for example. Preservation/Ruin are polar opposites. If Kelsier would have taken up both Shards instead of Sazed the resulting Intent would be expressed as Discord instead of Harmony. But as Shardic Intent is influenced by that Shard's Vessel, that Vessel's personality is altered in such a way as to line up with their Shard's Intent. And with an infinite time frame to work with all Vessels eventually become a personification of that Shard. So initially there's give and take but the longer a Vessel holds a Shard the more that Vessel is overwhelmed. For another example, take Rayse and Odium. Had Odium been held by a more pleasant natured person, Odium gets expressed differently, at least initially. There would be a struggle. Like Ati and Ruin. If Rayse picked Ruin he would have been much more destructive than Ati was. Rayse and Odium seem to make a good pairing for there is little conflict between Rayse's core personality and Odium's Intent. That means Rayse is closer to being the same as he was at the Shattering than Ati was at the end. The more conflict between a Vessel's core personality and the Intent of the Shard, the faster the Vessel's core personality erodes. In the end, the Shard wins always, yet it's still colored by the mind of the Vessel. Incidentally, it's why Rayse would rather shatter other Shards instead of taking up their power. He likes himself, his shard is compatible, and he knows that were he to pick up another Shard it would alter who he is. If the Shard he picked up was one that clashes with his core personality it would change him faster and interfere with his plans to be the only Shard standing. But even if he took up a Shard complimentary to Hatred he still would no longer be the Rayse from the Shattering of Adonolasium. And it is likely the more shards of Adonolasium one holds, the faster the core personality of the Vessel is eroded. Sazed is already experiencing Intent Conflict issues a mere 300-ish years after he picked up Pres/Ruin. And this is someone who is actually compatible to the Shardic Intent of what he holds.

We probably won't be able to properly speculate until we actually meet the Sibling in text. We do know it was a Mega Spren and so can maintain sapience without benefit of a bond. We know that it must have served a function outside the Knights Radient hierarchy, like Stormfather/Nightwatcher. A wild chull guess? The Spren of Stone that Szeth speaks of.

I don't believe Yelig Nar was imprisoned in a perfect gemstone. Those are probably too big to swallow. And if not in a perfect gemstone they have a tendency to leak. If Yelly were trapped then swallowing the gem should have no effect.

During the battle at Thaylen City he swallows the gemstone that held Yelig-Nar at Odium's command. As he fought Kaladin he lost more and more control, allowing the Unmade to consume him even as it granted him power. He was becoming a monster and would have killed Kaladin even as he was consumed, but Rock killed him with a Shardbow before the transformation was completed.

I think the issue with gauging Shallan has to do with how much she keeps hidden, both from outsiders and herself. She's never truly been a whole person, not since she decided to forget that she killed her mother and thus regained her ability to speak. Maybe she is 90% scared, lessening as the series progresses as suggested by Vikorr. My personal take on it is she is a defense fighter. She hides behind a shy manner and a razor wit, but the more savage side of her personality is held down, pressurized. In times of threat to herself or those she cares about, a switch is flipped and she seeks to end threats. The problem with releasing pent up emotion is that when one finally lets go the reaction is often way out of proportion. For example, she almost goes psycho when she returned from the chasms and Adolin pledged to protect her. Maybe she could have disabled Tyn but she was in danger and thus ended a threat with finality. The Shallan we first meet is an overlay; it covers the bleeding soul that is capable of lazer focus and utter ruthlessness. Basically the personality she later shoves into Veil.

Lin keeps the secret because he loved his daughter. But that love is tinged with fear. He was in the room when Shallan burned his wife's eyes out. He knows the price of threatening her in any way. He destroys himself, his reputation and his children's lives for fear of that dreadful blade.

I agree somewhat with Caderis; Shallan is not a sociopath. What she is is capable, almost despite herself. In times of stress she locks down all emotion until the crisis passes, then becomes the flighy teenager we've all come to know and at times be annoyed by. She's certainly dangerous, but her strength seems always to be either defensive or reactive. She's a person who won't start a fight but will finish one as the only one standing.

Yelig would have eaten Amaram like cold pizza after a hangover.

Is there a WOB that tells us how long it takes for a Shard to Invest a planet? Is the process faster if the Shard taps into the Investiture that was allocated by Adonolasium pre-shattering?

As a woman in a patriarchal society Jasnah is going to be at least slightly underestimated. Shallan can be scary, true, but her gifts don't lie in offensive magic. There's an upper limit to her lethality as her magic doesn't lend to defeating multiple opponents, not at least until she discovers how to make lazers with Illumination. Jasnah though, she's adapted her magic into a fighting style as scary as anything I've ever seen in fantasy. You must come hard at Jasnah because she can probably beat an army. Shallan can hold an army off if they cannot distinguish what is real and what is Illusion, but unless someone is taking advantage of the distractions she provides that army is still around when the Stormlight runs out. When Jasnah's Stormlight runs out she's surrounded by a field of crystalline corpses and smoke. I believe that only a Releaser will end up being more terrifying to face in battle.

In terms of lethality, Jasnah outstrips them all. Calm under pressure, skilled beyond belief, and utterly ruthless. Did you see how she owned Thaylen City? I have a feeling that if we had her background her bodycount would be higher than everyone except Dalinar. She's probably toe to toe with Szeth albeit over a longer time frame. If you are giving out categories, Dalinar is most relentless, Szeth is the best at close quarters, Kaladin best open field, Adolin best duelist, Shallan best at psychological warfare, Jasnah best magically. Given unlimited Stormlight I choose Jasnah against any army on Roshar.

I can see Teft as match to ashertmarn. With the theme of redemption he'd be fitting if he's strong enough.

Shallan's named bodycount, Patriarch/Matriarch Davar Tyn Unnamed bodycount Ship of assasins Momma Davar's companion Kabsal died in her presence but she didn't kill him. Racking my brain but cannot count more than 3 named.

On the theory of a shard other than Autonomy using a Trellium Spike: Hemalurgy opens a soul to Shardic influence. Theoretically once a soul is pierced then any shard can reach in and gain control. The more spikes, the more control. So it's possible that some unknown Shard stole a bunch of Trellium spikes to make kandra to unleash on Scadrial. Problem is that this action cannot possibly be hidden from Autonomy; a Shard always knows where investiture keyed to it is being used due to Spiritual Connection. This unknown Shard will basically be fighting 3 Shards on 2 fronts, both of which can bring more power to bear due to being invested in the system of conflict. BTW, Mountain King, is there a specific reason why you feel it has to be a Shard we haven't been introduced to instead of Autonomy? I mean, Autonomy can do everything you propose that this other Shard is doing without need for extra steps.

On Roshar there are 9 Splinters of Odium whose function is similar to Honor's Heralds. The Unmade, harbingers of chaos and calamity. But at the end of OB we saw on screen that they can be captured in much the same manner as the spren used for fabrials. It requires a perfect gemstone, a person who's naturally attractive to the particular Unmade to draw it in, and someone who is strong willed enough resist its influence. This post will attempt to match Unmade with characters likely to succeed in capturing them. Of course this list is incomplete since we don't yet know the function of all the Unmade. For some of these I'll try to speculate but naturally this is open to commentary. Known Capure Capacity The two Unmade we know align with certain characters as revealed in OB. Nergaoul - Dalinar (captured) Re-Shepir - Shallan (capture capable) Speculative Capture Capable Characters These are based on what we know of the Unmade, matched to a character that alligns to its function, however loosely Moelach (Death Rattles) - Renarin Ashertmarn (Heart of the Revel) - Lyft (tenuous connection due to her love of food) Unknown Capacity These are the Unmade that we know hardly anything about besides a name. More information needed to determine an alignment. -Chemoarish (Dustmother) -Dai-Gonarthis (Black Fisher) Questioned Capacity These are Unmade of whose function is reasonably certain, but ones for who character alignment is little more than guesswork. - Yelig-Nar (Blightwind) - Has already consumed Amaram and Aseudan. Grants all Surges in exchange for a loss of form. - Sja-Anat - A corruptor of Spren. May remain uncaptured because she is trying to defect. A Spy type would be most likely alignment. - Bo-Ado-Mishram - Odium's General. Grants Voidlight. Was previously captured by Bondsmith Melishi. Due to power, may need to be aligned to another Bondsmith to be recaptured. (Was she released or is she still trapped?)