Bigmikey357

It almost seems like Hoid is trying to become a mini-Adonalasium. I wonder how he's going to try and form a Connection to Odium or if he'd even want to.

But you could fully duel wield or do the combo weapons like bow and arrow or sword shield. We want the extra surges and the additional resonances but maintaining the additional Oaths to make the magic work would be quite untenable, at least for most people. Radiants are already exceptional; asking for a random Radiant to be even more exceptional seems like we may be asking for too much.

If a double Nahel bond is possible and is inevitable to take place within the narrative, why are we assuming that they must be spren from a different order? Say Syl had a twin sister or something like that.

Yep. About to say that we don't really know Endowment either. Any info we have on Edgli comes from WOB.

I agree that the evidence for Culti as a 2-centric Shard is weak, but no weaker than 4 or 5 or even if it has a number association. We will just have to rafo I suppose.

I would have leaned more towards 2 as her Shardic number. All KR have 2 powers. Why 2? Why not one or all of them? Then the Nightwatcher visit with boon/curse dynamic.

I think you may need to modify the statement that Shards cannot break promises. We have seen a Shard break a promise already, Preservation/Leras. I think it's more that Shards cannot break promises without severe consequences to their power or consciousness. A broken promise for a Shard results in a wound that cannot heal. Otherwise, I can find no flaws in your theory. Upvote and RAFO!

If this ability actually works, and it would be awesome if it did, then the ability would have to be kept extremely secret, kind of like in a trump card way. Because the counter to such an ability is simple to implement. Silver is the true allomantically inert metal. Neither it or any of its stronger alloys can be burned, thus burning off metal bars becomes useless.

Kaladin lobodomized Syl by betraying his Oaths. Shallan lobodomized herself to kill her bond.

Kinda like angel and devil riding each shoulder.

Hopefully adding something to this conversation, Allomancy/Feruchemy is so uncommon in Southern Scadrial that any practitioner is effectively a God to them. There's not enough metalborn to make a Hemalurgy assembly line to make medallions in the south. Hemalurgy therefore cannot be involved in medallion making.

Binding 2 spren isn't impossible but it's my understanding that spren do not like to share. So it probably falls in the realm of technically possible but functionality impossible. Nor can the spren form 2 different weapons because that would involve the spren splitting themselves. So no sword shield combo or duel-wields except in very special cases like Nale. Or, here's a crazy one. Say Adolin never revives Maya but attracts another Spren. Adolin then gains a Nahel bond but Maya doesn't scream at him because he treats her with honor. Maya won't be able to be variable weaponry but she will still be able to be summoned and dismissed. The other spren can then be his shield. As far as Radiants learning to voidbind, I would not mind if the narrative turned in that direction for at least a couple of our protagonists. Grey Jedi are always entertaining after all.

My answer to the Identity issue involves the bond itself. When Radiant bonds to higher spren their soul blends. The connection strengthens as the Radiant progresses. We see this several times. When Kaladin fights and Syl instantly shifts to the weapon he needs or when Syl and Kaladin talk on the ship in Shadesmar. If the 2 souls begin to look like one soul Spiritually then they will have the same Identity in a Realmatic sense. Shardplate follows along those lines but instead of human and spren bonding it's a spren to spren connection, one that can be pulled into the Physical Realm like humans pull Shardblades. And while it's true that it's difficult if not impossible to lash Invested objects, it should not be a problem to lash something the lasher invested themselves. The lesser spren are in effect the Radiant's metalmind, with the Nahel Spren serving as mediary.

Silence would send them Elkohar's shade in a box, a bag of silver dust and a silver knife. On the package would be a note with instructions on the care and feeding of shade.

There is a difference. The difference between the two instances is in fact what inspired my original point. Leras was alive when Rashek 'ascended' although largely mindless. When Vin ascended Leras had faded into the Beyond by then. Kelsier was holding the Shard in-between the time Leras died and Vin assumed the mantle. My interpretation of the events at the Well make me think perpendicularities represent a significant portion of a Shard's power. Rashek was able to move a planet and change the sDNA of every inhabitant on that planet. Ok, great discussions guys. Your comments really started some thoughts percolating. I will share them below. Feel free to dissect. On thresholds and perpendicularity: A perpendicularity in the Cosmere is a fixed point in space where Investiture gathers and is so dense that it pierces all three Realms. My rough estimate of a Threshold for Ascension is for a person to hold enough of a Shard's Investiture to make a perpendicularity possible. Basically if you don't hold power at least equal to what was gathered when the Well of Ascension was full then you have not ascended. The difference between Rashek and Dalinar lies in the state of the Shard they ascended to. Preservation was whole when Rashek Ascended, Honor is fragmented. Rashek Ascended to a Shard that had a Vessel in residence, Vin Ascended twice. The first time she ascended she held only enough power to ascend. The second time she held more. Remember, the Well was empty so all the power she released went back into the mists. When she ingests all the mists on Scadrial she takes up all the power of Preservation minus the bit that went into every human. Leras had died so the Vessel position was open. Vin took it and was powerful enough to equal a weakened Ati. Dalinar didn't hold enough of Honor to become its Vessel because Honor's power is too spread out and Dalinar has too much influence from the other Shards in system. I guess this makes Dalinar a Sliver and he has the inside track on becoming Honor's next Vessel. On Autonomy. I believe that Badvadin is going to other planetary systems where she accesses and gathers the pieces of creation attibuted to her and shoves them into someone they've picked as an Avatar, likely someone who could encompass Autonomy's Intent. Once they have ascended, Badvadin leaves the system so that her Avatar can continue to hold the power instead of Slivering. We know that magic systems arise from the interaction of a Shard and its Intent with the Planet or System that Shard inhabits. So Autonomy's magic looks different on Taldain, on Scadrial, or in the Drominad System. One thing I'd like to know is just how many Avatars does Badvadin have? And could one of her Avatars hold another Shard like Dominion or Devotion?

I'm not sure about Nightblood compulsion, but I think it'd be relatively easy for a Riotor to reproduce the effects of the Thrill on someone.

I'm not necessarily saying that Brandon has the terminology wrong. I'm just saying that for clarity's sake that there must be a distinction between what Rashek does (using the full power of the Shard for a short time), what Vin does (becoming the Vessel for Preservation) and what Dalinar does (taking a significant amount of the power but not the full power and simply holding it). Note that Vin would have been the Vessel in truth but she sacrificed herself to kill Ati. Note also that while what Rashek and Dalinar did was similar Rashek had much more power at his disposal. Dalinar took up the power of a Shard with no physical Vessel but did not become Honor's Vessel, did not take up the vacancy. All three of these instances (and we might as well throw in Kelsier and Sazed), all of them are described with the same word despite all the circumstances being different. It makes it confusing as to what the term really means.

I agree that the terms really need expansion to include specific instances. The problem is that we're not at the point in the Cosmere cycle that will show exactly what the hell is going on yet. We likely won't get that except via WOB at this point. It seems to me though that we are getting close and that Badvadin holds the key to ultimately understanding the modes of Ascension due to her creation of Avatars.

Adding some credence to your theory (although I don't know how much it adds) we have some evidence that there were analogues to the magic systems we've seen so far pre-Shattering. Hoid has used proto-Lightweaving or Yolen style Lightweaving in the narrative, at least it's been speculated that his Wondersail story in WOK is evidence of the ability. So if one example of the abilities we've seen so far existed before Uncle Addie split up then others should exist as well. Add to the fact that the one world with a magic system that has an ability that alligns closely to what was seen in the past was designed by the very being that broke up. Whether our big 16 used some form of magic to kill God and we see traces of that magic in the current timeline is a different question but a plausible one. After all, killing Gods cannot be easy. We've seen 2 die onscreen and neither went down easily despite not being at full strength. In fact, they were both killed by a God (Ruin strangled Preservation over a couple millennia; an ascendant Vin sacrificed her life and godhood to kill Ati). Uncle Addie was more than 16 times more powerful than the Shards we know. He's not going down without use of some type of magical intervention

No theory, just speculation. So, we know that a Shard cannot deny access to a user of its magic system per WOB. Basically as long as the user is following the rules a Shard and/or its Vessel cannot intervene. That got me thinking about Vin's Ascension in HOA. She took up all the mists and became Preservation for a time. Leras was already dead though so there was no conflict. My question is can a being ascend if the Vessel still lives? The power of a Shard is infinite after all. We know a being can weild 2 Shards (and probably more than that). We know that the power seeks a mind to guide or contain it. Can one Shard have multiple Vessels and what would it look like if so? Is Autonomy/Badvadin doing this? Last, if it is possible for one Shard to have multiple Vessels and those people are in conflict, say one isn't particularly suited for the Shard they hold, then how are conflicts resolved?

Shardblades are different because they are actual sapient souls. No matter what theory one subscribes to regarding Shardplate, I'm sure we can all agree that the elements involved are not self aware. Shardblades also do not cause surges, they are an indication of progression in an Order. Let's go back to my computer example. Can you fix a PC using parts from a machine built to run MacOS? The answer is yes but only with modifications. It would not be an easy fix and it certainly wouldn't be plug-and-play. By that logic Dalinar would not have been able to attach Adolin's gauntlet to his suit and have it work seamlessly unless the plate was of the same Order, which is highly unlikely. The only way that little trick works without twisting plausibility into a gordian knot is to say Shardplate is made with the same process independent of Order. Ixthos, I don't agree with your premise but if you turn out to be correct I won't be disappointed. It looks like it would be a cool mechanic and likely an awesome scene.

I tend to look at it like a computer. Whether you have a dell or an hp, if it's a windows computer running in protected mode the functionality will be the same. If we go by your theory, what it looks like to me is 5 to 10 computers running side by side in protect mode but one is a PC, another running MacOS, another running Linux, ect. Even in protect mode, even with limited functionality, these systems will look different while still performing basic computing functions. No matter how subtle the difference I feel like it would be noticed and would be commented on. And parts would not be even a little interchangable unless the same Order made the plate. For example, when Dalinar borrowed Adolin's gauntlet on their way back from the tower in WOK, how would they even know such a thing was possible? Anyway, I guess we will see eventually.

The problem with that theory in my mind is that all the dead plate acts the same regardless of the order that made it in the first place. If this theory was correct then we should see even dead plate with it's limited functionality be able to do different things. Instead all dead plate works in a standardized fashion. I can accept different spren using the same process to create plate, much like HP and IBM can get their microchips from different manufacturers but still make a PC.

Edgedancers seem like the home Order for Adolin to me too. Other instances of him displaying Edgedancer qualities, remembering to look out for Dalinar's Ryshidium since Dalinar has recently become too busy to ride. He is one of the only people to listen to Renarin when so many people seek to dismiss him due to his lack of fighting prowess. He's graceful on the dueling grounds when he fights.

Something that it would be useful to know is rate and/or magnitude of change. How long does it take for a concept to become a spren and does the rate increase depending on how many people are thinking about that concept in similar ways? To link back to the OP, there's probably a large concentration of Cosmere aware people already on Roshar due to the easy access to free Investiture. How long does Vasher for example need to be adjacent to Roshar's Cognitive Realm before Breath Spren develop? Will the process quicken with Vivienda roaming the Rosharan sphere of influence? Another example. Sazed's kandra spy has presumably been on Roshar, or if it hasn't yet it certainly will visit at some point. Kandra are essentially immortal. How long would he have to be there before the ideas of Connection bare spren of their own? Or will existing spren start to change with the way sentient beings start looking at old concepts in new ways. There are after all bindspren already; one connects things by binding them.