Aminar

In close combat yes. The point being made is that guns easily outstrip the human bodies ability to move away from an attack. Atium maximizes what the body can do but when you need to move six feet for every inch the man with the gun needs to move an inch dodging becomes almost impossible. I would like to know. How many of you are familiar with semiauto fire rates? There isn't a whole lot of work involved in forcing someone tobmove in specific ways. As soon as the seer is in the ir they're dead. You can only twist your body midair. Given medieval tech Atium is godly. Guns are so incredibly deadly at this point that the only way to defend against them is to disarm or kill the opponent with the gun.

For sure. I'm not saying Atium is useless, just that sitting there and trying to be Neo dodging Bullets isn't a good plan. Guns are too efficient at Semiauto and automatic speeds, they will force the Seer into offensive action quite quickly or the seer will get hit(assuming competent trained marksmen.) The Seer, providing they have a gun, will be able to do amazing things. Equally armed, Seer verse normal dude, the seer wins. Now, Thug with machine gun versus seer with machine gun might cause problems for the seer, assuming the thug is willing to take a beating and likely die second while spraying down the Seer.

The pulsing feel is much like sound. The fact each metal pulses on a different frequency is much like sound. The Fact Copper acts as a muffler is quite a bit like sound, although that one stretches things. How it muffles said sound is never explained. Is it that it weakens the frequency, counters the frequency, that the waves don't move through it. I think it weakens the pulses as they leave the body though, given that somebody burning across from a coppercloud but not in it seems to be just as detectable as if they weren't in a coppercloud.(otherwise I can see an Allomancer and a seeker walking along parralel streets until somebody was muted.

That sounds like the right quotes Voidus. I really do think I'm onto something but I thought I was on firmer ground than I initially was. And remember Biochroma is tied to Endowment. The passing on of breaths is that part. You could have Biometalla possibly, where breaths eat Metal not color if you really wanted according to my theory, but more would change than that. Bochroma itself though, still tied to Endowment. Ths he isn't likely to move Endowment to another planet anytime soon.

That and I mix up you and Voidus for obvious reasons... I thought you were the one in that argument with me when it was as him.

Yeah, several pages back the same debate happened. Nothing personal, it's just something I think everybody who's been in this thread doesn't want to happen again.

Now, this implies an unarmed mistborn. In a fight Atium offers numerous offensive options to disable this opponent, but the closer an unarmed Seer gets the less chance they have. The smaller the area the less dodging they can do. Guns require next to no time to fire, little time to reaim. I guess in a way they allow for a much simpler set of circumstances to pull a Vin v Zane situation because it's easier to spot the dodges and still have time to react.

It's still far more powerful than most of the other metals, but it... Think of it this way. Atium is only ever seen used for violence. The way you're describing it Atium will always use the deadliest option on those around you. It's cued up for combat and only combat if the mental speed isn't enhanced with the Atium sense(it really does work like Spidey Senses). While I can see Ruin doing that I don't think it works that way. Spidey can dodge bullets, but focused practiced gunfire is an incredibly deadly force. Just think about the simplicity of the motions, how fast they can come for the damage done. I'm going to try something here, I'm going to write a scene from the view of a trained marksman hunting down a Seer. I stepped through the door, following the piece of slime that had just tried to rob me. No way in Ruin I was letting him get away with it. I hefted my AR, clicking the twenty shot banana clip into place with the smooth proficiency I'd learned in the Terris Wars. He turned, saw me, and began to run. I raised my gun to a firing position but he was gone, out the door into the courtyard before I could get a good shot. Rust and Ruin do I hate being out of practice. I stepped from the door a few seconds later. He was trapped. I raised my gun, only lingering doubts about the legality of what I was doing remaining. I fired, but he was moving before I'd even raised the gun, his motions too fluid, too skilled. For a second I debated if he was a thug, a pewter burner, but no. If he were a Thug he'd be in my face by now, taking the shot I could get off and then crushing me. The same would apply to any decent Feruchemist. That only left one option. He was burning Atium. A seer. Survivor's Coin Sack this was bad. I knew what to do though. We'd all been trained in Mistborn fire patterns, specific patterns that would drive an Atium burner into a corner and trap them. First i fired at him, watching which direction he dove. He was fast, but I didn't need to move far, just rotate a little. I fired again, cutting off his initial escape direction. He dive beneath the bullet, obviously seeing what I had planned on doing. That dive didn't give him many options though. I fired a trio of rapid shots from the gun, the first forcing him to pop into the air midway through his roll, the next heading back and up at an agle and the last just a hair later just a hair higher. As I'd planned, the last shot clipped him the ankle. he dodged five more shots on that ankle before I clipped him in the hip and the blood loss got to him. From there he was easy pickings.

I swear I've read that it is based on confirmed info... Somebody tell me I'm right, that the planet influences the magic system is a confirmed fact.

It should be underpowered compared to Lerasium. Lerasium is preservations as is Allomancy. And Voidy-We are NOT having the physchology vs freewill debate again. I'll leave it at I don't buy your theory. Animals may be that way, but humans are more.

The brain has to be involved somewhere or Atium literally cannot be controlled. The implications there are terrifying, because it means an Atium burner makes no choices while burning. Think on that for a bit.

Two people burning Bronze aren't better at detectng someone. Three people burning isn't easier to detect than 5. This is working on different principles than Emotional Allomancy. It's working on something akin to sound. That's how the books describe it, I would assume it works under the same principles.

Not necessarily. There might be nuetral trios, or a complex collection of +s and -s. So he could be nuetral but doesn't have to be.

Can I submit my slighlty extra long bit this Monday?

It's implied that the Koloss took down several Seers without them running out of Atium. It's stated that Atium burners become dangerously arrogant while using Atium. It's suggested over and over again that Atium burners are still in danger while burning Atium. Divine power or no, Atium isn't nearly as infallible as you seem to think it is. Zane's death explains that well enough. This glimpse the future theory just doesn't add up. It's not a logical answer to Atiums use. Lastly, we're talking huge multipliers of a human braisn processing speed. The equivalent of cramming weeks of Feruchemical Zinc storage to manage the processing power you're implying Atium offers. I don't buy that Brandon, who makes his stuff pretty scientific, would just grant that kind of power. Deific or not, Atium does not make the bearer invincible. Amazingly hard to kill, yes, but invincible. No. That doesn't fit the story, the world, the tone, or Brandon.

It's honestly easier to just memorize them I got my Dice from crafty memorized in about 10 minutes. I just always forget which one Zinc is because it looks so generic, like it's the prototype symbol.

Atium doesn't grant xray vision. If somebody was going top open the door and walk out you could see as soon aa their shadow left the door though.(just read Vins escape from Kredik Shaw. One of the inquisitors surprises her by burning Atium and swinging his axe as she turns a corner. As to guns. Even Semiautomatics pose a large problem for Seers not effectively using Pewter Iron and Steel. Steel is really thw best way to deal with gunfire. Just brace yourself and fling vevry gun in the building away. Until they star firing nonmetal bullets with nonmetal casings or make everything from aluminum guns are easy prey for an intelligent coinshot or lurcher with smart bodyarmor.

I find "all" to be hard to imagine as feasible. I really do. There is a limit to what the body can manage. Enhancing it to the level needed to dodge bullets means that Atium burners should never die to things that move much slower but they do. And not because of unavoidable situations only. Atium has been shown to be fallible, explained to be fallible, and should be fallible. Atium has limits to what it can process and 1000 mph objects thinner than my finger should be one of those things, if for no other reason than the human eye can't see at that speed, and the muscles cannot be activated at that speed. Two seconds of warning is alot, ut not enough to deal with extended gunfire. Now I am thinking that people would train specific fire patterns to deal with seers. A simple cross shot pattern would cover most escapes quite quickly, staring in the center, adjusting for the mandatory dive in both directions, and then one up an down incase of backflips.(assuming hazekiller bullets of course, to stop the bullets from being pushed(although the relative force involved in pushing multiple bullets might not be such a good thing. I mean, the rifle jerks my set shoulder back hard. Pushing on 5 or six of the things at once. OW. I don't remember visualizing Atium shadows as ghosting back, but that might just be me... That makes bullets a little easier to deal with, but nowhere near as easy as is being explained.

I like the organ donor misting concept. The issue with hemalurgy is the damage it does to the soul though, not the body. But still a fun idea. I was just imagining a bank of spikeholding coma patients earlier today, preserving the spikes for later use. This was in connection to something else, but a brilliant idea. Pass on the family Spikes and get grandpa in your head as a side affect. Hell, Copper spikes could be all sorts of interesting. I can't let Grandpa go, I'll freeze his mind in this spike and give it to that braindead guy. Better yet, make a Kandra from grandpa and grandma. They'll be together forever.

Yes. But we aren't talking single shot weapons here. A sword, you can manage a slice every few seconds, more if you're really god but not by much. Even when surrounded by a five or six Koloss(as many as could reasonably engage one of the seers in that last battle, the attacks aren't coordinated well and the close quarters hampers the Koloss, who probably killed eachother more than the seers did. Guns are not single shot. Guns aren't deadly for their range or even the amount of damage they do. Theyw ere once, but now they are deadly for the number of those attacks you can throw out quickly. I'd choose a man with an AR-15 and hazekiller bullets over a mistborn any day. Also, Atium doesn't tell you what is coming per say. It shows you, but requires the speed of your mind and your body to react. It enhances the minds speed some, but just not enough to deal with any gun in the hands of somebody competant with better rate of fire than a bolt action rifle. Multishot shotguns get even more difficult to deal with. Atium is great but you're making i seem far more powerful than Brandon ever has.

You aren't think nearly broad enough. Alo -Tin. A, hnaky Panky. B: Perfect senses while driving, listening to all the subtleties in a brilliant piece of music, Nightvision, You use your senses every day, Tin would enhance them so much I can't even... Alo Iron and Steel- Rapid transportation, force pulling pencils, flight, moving heavy objects. Atium-Sports. Driving. Cadmium-We have a thread on it. Best First Responder EVER! Feruchemy Pewter-You wouldn't believe how awesome heavy lifting would be. Anybody that spends time doing physiocal labor can tell you, it's handy. Tin-Again, you undervalue your senses for enjoyment of life. And being able to shut off my sense of smell. Bronze-Supersleep not useful? Dear go do I wish I could manage two hours of sleep. That adds more to life than Atium. Steel-Physical speed is something you use all the time. Combine with Zinc and you never need a car, your bike is tons better. The money saved. Cadmium-And being able to fire a gun more accuratley. And the benefits to your endurance. Look up how much runners need breathing and how much of exhaustion is oxygen deprivation. Admittedly, I'd go mental speed, but most abilities have real life applications outside of combat.

Sure, when the shadow of the club went through my head an into my vision. In all honesty I'm more detailing what the human mind can process. Bullet speed is well beyond that while club being swung speed isn't. The speed of an attack makes it harder to dodge even if you do have two seconds to dodge it.(Which isn't that much time. The faster the attacks the less use Atium is. I would guess bullets move too fast for Atium to be able to calculate and send the information to the brain. I'm not requiring sight in all reality. The bullets move too fast for even Atium enhanced reflexes to deal with.

Well yes, but I think that's the point I'm going for. A feruchemist with the right focus and storage is pretty godly in combat. Even the super toned down 1 hour of storage = 1 combat round of +1 dice Mistborn RPG feruchemists are broken as all getup and they're much weaker than Sazed was. Feruchemy is BROKED. And awesome at being so. Because the feruchemist who lives his life storing all the time has a cruddy life until he unleashes. The suddenly he's amazing. As for investiture. Any sufficiently full metalmind is invested(as I understand it) That makes metalminds hard to push and pull on, but nowhere near what a shardblade or the like is.

We don't? I have a pretty good idea, none of them are that hard to work out. Especially Identity. It's your sense of self right. The ability to resist people manipulating you to do things you normally wouldn't. Luck is also pretty easy given Brandon's involvement with the wheel of time. While burning it the improbably good happens around you more. While storing the improbably bad happens around you more. So maybe the Atium burning mistborn slips on a puddle, messing up their dodge. The odds of your opponent catastrophically failing around you rise while using it. Investiture I would just take as the RPG describes it, power that can be transferred to any metalmind, but at half strength.

No you won't. Bullets travel at over 1000 mph and are tiny. The human eye cannot see that, the human mind cannot process that, or anywhere near that. Atium is never shown to be able to see anything near that level of speed. I find it hard to believe Atium allows for that level of perception enhancement. That's around 1500 feet per second. The human eye will be able to see the bullet every 50 feet .The human eye operates at about 30 different views per second. Atium does not speed the mind 30X regular speed, when you could see the bullet's motion perfectly. I doubt it manages twice the mental speed, and try spotting something the size of a bullet, even glowing when it appears every 25 feet for 1/30th of a second. Admittedly Atium could work like Tracer fire and just drag, but the supernatural nature of it makes me guess it doesn't. Basically the speed of bullets is so far beyond what we've seen Atium deal with that I highly doubt it can accommodate.