ScavellTane

If the ShardHolders can excess investiture by 'bonding' the Shards, shouldn't a Singer or a Human with a spren (micro-shard) bond be able to do the same? It's just a difference in magnitude is it not? Why do they need an external source? Especially for the Ancient Singer whose bond was pre-Shattering. Dalinar + Mass Spiritual Adhesion + Stormlight Transfer = Sustained Light Regen. (Ba-Ado-Mishram??)

I'm just explaining myself poorly. Basically, he made a deal, he lost and the Unmade was the price.

What about the Stormfather though?

You made it out as if that was the only reason for it? The persecution of the 'traitor' spren does not negate the reason for the Oathbreaking. There were already plans to forswear their oaths when they attacked the spren. It was part of a deal/agreement? The Unmade, I'd wager, is what's shackling Odium to Roshar. They are a fairly significant mass of his investiture. I would think that he wouldn't have Splintered them if it wasn't because of a bet of sorts. He never intended to remain in Roshar, so logically he would not have willingly invest so highly in Roshar.

I guess I could say that the Fused and the Regals gain light through their spren. While the Radiants get light externally? The question is, were the spren that Venli, the Fused and the Singers of the False Desolation bonded, made of Odiums investiture? Odium wouldn't splinter himself for that would he? There is the argument for the Unmade, but I don't think he had a choice in that matter. I mean when the Fused were conceived, I would assume that Odium just took a Singer shadow and glued it to a spren. He wouldn't want to spend his investiture on it. Then is Ulim and the rest with Odium or of Odium?

I'm gonna postulate this: The Last Legion had access to a Nightform and it predicted the Severing. If they didn't know about the impending Severing, taking the Dullform was kind of pointless. It would have slowed their escape would it not? Had the war not happened as it did, wouldn't the other Singers sought them out once it was known that they have fled.

That's the only roadblock to my theory that I could see. If voidlight is from Odium then nothing works. The voidspren that Venli bonded didn't really grant her any surge. So I presume that that's not a sentient spren. I think 'power-form' comes from sentient spren, 'crafted of gods'.

Could be, but I wouldn't think that he needed to do so. Unless its the Odium vs. Passion thing.

Are we certain voidlight is of Odium (He's gold, it's violet-ish)? It's both still investiture-fuel though. There's no mention of Odium 'providing' voidlight. Voidlight may have been the natural investiture of Roshar pre-Shattering. The Fused were given 'persistence' by Odium not necessarily voidlight. I believe they are 'fused' with a spren which grants them a surge and access to voidlight. This is predicated upon BAM being one of the Dawnshards, therefore capable of granting investiture that is pre-Shattering and the spren that bonded the Singers were also pre-Shattering. But thats going into the deep end. There was never any evidence that the Singers were granted surgebinding back then. It's just extrapolation from BAM being a Bondsmith and the severity of the Severing. If that was the case they would not have 'killed' their bondmate regardless, yet they did. They killed the spren who bonded the Singers and then went to Feverstone Keep. At least the Windrunners and Stonewards did.

Most of the things I post are speculation. Also:

Access to Shadesmar would only be known by few, but knowledge of space travel would be advertised world wide.

If you consider the passages with some spren as having joined to other side ie. bonded Singers. BAM provides voidlight, now, so does Dalinar and the Stormfather. Could BAM have bonded an individual instead of the entire race? As a Bondsmith, BAM and her bondmate facilitates bonds and light similar to what Dalinar and the Stormfather is doing? Considering the tone of the epigraph, was the severing of the Singers done purposefully? The Singers were starting to gain the Nahel-bond so Melishi took that away? The severing was done in addition to the imprisonment not as a byproduct? As we have seen with Venli-Timbre, a Singer surgebinder retain their 'power-form' so it would not be immediately evident that they gained the Nahel-bond as the Radiants would expect them to manifest very different physically if they naturally bonded Radiant-spren. The Radiants did something and then abandon their Oaths? With BAM as a Bondsmith and providing (I presume) Nahel-Bonds to various Singers, the Radiants would view that as a betrayal by the spren. The spren withdraw after the Severing and then two thousand Radiants attack them? Was Ulim one of the spren who went over to BAM at that time? Were he and his cohorts, survivors of the Recreance? An oddity with these spren, they're not bonded to anybody, yet they are fully intelligent in the Physical Realm unlike Syl and Pattern. Proof that they had bonded before? Or was this a side effect of the Severing? Or some combination of the two? Revision: It may not have been the Nahel-bond similar to Venli-Timbre. But more like what the Fused have, but without being fused. This still necessitates sentient spren to bond with a Singer. It could be that the spren that bonded the Singers and provided 'power-form' were not of Odium, but basically joined the Singers side of the conflict. With the Singers gaining a void-Bondsmith of their own, the spren sees it as an invitation? This would explain why the Radiants felt betrayed. All this happened during a time of change for the spren, the spren of Urithiru withdrew, the Stormfather was in his in-between state, BAM upgraded?, the spren in general began to split between Radiant sentient-spren and non-Radiant sentient spren?, what other great spren changes occurred here that has become the norm for current Roshar?

It wouldn't be a Listener though. The Singer bonded to BAM would be a pseudo-Bondsmith for them. When Melishi severed their connection the Singer-BAM bond was also lost since I would assume the Nahel-bond has some connection to Roshar itself. Well I don't know then. Something triggered the Oathbreaking during the fighting and the Severing was the only significant event at the time (that we know of). Although, just because the Parsh lost their forms doesn't mean the war was over. The humans were determined to exterminate them.

Are we certain any regular human-spren bond is a Nahel bond? Or is a Radiant bond considered the Nahel-Bond?

I'm gonna be idiot and do this:

I would like to point out an observation that I don't think anyone has realised. BAM provides voidlight right, now, Dalinar and the Stormfather also provides light. The Stormfather couldn't renew spheres before Dalinar did it. Could BAM have had a bondmate? Could the mention of BAM connecting to the parsh people refer to an individual and not the race as a whole? Considering the tone of the epigraph regarding Melishi, was the severing of the Singers done purposefully and without consensus? He saw BAMs ability to bond a Singer as dangerous and decided to remove that capability? The Singers were starting to gain the Nahel-bond so Melishi took that away? That would help explain why the Windrunners and Stonewards deserted en masse. Ultimately the Radiants enemies are the Fused and Odium, if the Singers were granted the Nahel-bond they could potentially join Honors side of the fight. Is the sibling the Stormfather refer to, BAM? If BAMs bondmate was disconnected, it could explain the sibling being asleep. Is this what Notum was referring to when he mentions severing Kaladin and Syls bond? Also, it could also explain Gavilars obsession with the words. He had access to BAM but couldn't quite figure out the Oaths to bond her as a voidbinders Oaths is different than a surgebinders? Did Honor copy what happened to BAM and applied it to the Stormfather? Speculation: If you consider the passages with some spren as having joined the other side (ie. bonded Singers). With BAM as a pseudo-Bondsmith and providing (I presume) Nahel-Bonds to various Singers, the Radiants would view that as a betrayal and essentially attacked the spren that had bonded with the Singers. The second passage explains that the Radiants planned something (to attack the Singer-bonded-spren(?)) and then abandon their Oaths. This gives further weight of the Stormfathers claim that the ancient Radiants killed many of his children.

Forget it, I was being an idiot again. Regardless, thats quite an achievement. All of them were in Dullform. There were no dissenting voice in their band.

I would be interested to see where BAMs loyalty lies. Her nature surely had changed as evident by the ability to Connect. What I find odd is that the Listeners were 'sent' away. If BAM was as loyal to Odium as we believe wouldn't they have been killed? They confesed to being traitors. Their 'faction' were very much singled out.

BAM may not be 'imprisoned' at all. If the Radiants went with the plan I figured they'd have used the Ruby. Unless, of course, there were more than one of those at the time. The Radiants had a 'plan' to capture BAM, but Melishi had a change of plan at the last minute.

Its all part of it. Its a build up. The severing of the Singers was just the last straw.

The common consensus regarding the Recreance is that it happened likely due to the severing of the Singers Connection to Roshar and the denunciation from Honor regarding the Radiants worthiness. I would go deeper and say that it happened because the Radiants removed the Singers ability to Progress without influence from Odium. BAM connecting to the Singers and providing them with forms of power granted them wisdom that have been denied to them by the Fused and Odium. They were on their way to developing a society that is not all about war. Are we certain the Listeners views were in minority amongst the Singers during the Last Desolation? Could the Radiant Khazirah have spoken out for the Singers at that time? It would seem that the Singers were stepping away from Odium and the Radiants practically severed their legs from under them. I think this is another underlying truth behind the Recreance.

I guess if they're going for live action, they're going to have to be fairly loose with the physical appearance of the characters.

Hugh jackman for dalinar? Lucy liu for navani wouldn't quite work she would be kinda short for an Alethi. I would still prefer it to be animated, better to capture the finer details and nuance about the world.

Demon Core GraphicAudio. I might be ruining my tolerance for the GraphicAudio voice actors.

Obscure WOW character + random name generator.