alder24

Which Roshar has no ability to make? I doubt you could get Nightblood-gun from Nightwatcher. How would that gun even work? It would consume bullets you're trying to fire. And Nightblood-bullet would consume the gun. Unless made of aluminium, but than good luck finding, recovering and reloading the gun, you have to put it back in new cartridge case with gunpowder in it, which would be consumed by the bullet. But that's a fun idea. Scary but fun. Like shooting mini black holes. It is, but Dalinar is doing it on the battlefield, not in Urithiru far away from it. TLM ch 59, both pure investiture and invested individuals are important in creating perpendicularity. That one was a surprise to the Set, as they did not expect it to be there and had to cover it from the community. Scadrial doesn't use it, don't rely on CR at all, so it doesn't hurt Scadrial. It hurts Roshar as they can have 2 ways into CR, and move Dalinar so him and perpendicularity can both supply different fronts of the war. We've already talk about it, I'm not jumping back into that hole again. Yes you can, but armor is made out of metal, metal is glowing in Scadrial's CR, blinding anyone looking at it - put a person in a metal armor and their soul can't be looked at in CR.

Yes, he can get personally tied to the gun as he's the only one that gun will allow to use. Leading behind the lines is different than staying in a bunker of some sorts. Dalinar still is in the battlefields, just not fighting but as a support. As it took few dozens and a few years in TLM, few hundreds/thousands might manifest it in several weeks/months. That's enough. Why would they crippled their logistic and supply chains by doing that? Even if they have a Bondsmith that can make a perpendicularity, having a second way in is much more better. And what if that kandra would wear a metal armor? It would be hard to see it's soul and differentiate him from Roshar troops under all that metal. No spikes visible in CR. So short and fast. Feels good.

What if the curse would be that only he, or nobody, can use what he got? Pepole living in CR and more accustom to different nationalities presence there also might find Tukari weird, and then it's just gossip. I did not assume, I just asked. Oh, don't worry, I'll be different. I will refuse to give sources cause I won't be able to find them OR he needs a distraction, a diversion, a surprise attack. And then he sneaks into Dalinar's bathroom. Yeah, CR is a problem, but Dalinar isn't a coward and won't hide when his man are dieing. Staying in CR would be agaist the Code. But what if, than Scadrial can focus their metalborns in one place, wait for perpendicularity to form, and then make surprising attack on unprotected CR and Dalinar in there. Or they can try sneaking into Harmony's perpendicularity. Or kandra spy with the spike waiting for Dalinar to open perpendicularity from CS. These are the shortest responses that we've made here so far. Weird.

There are some great ideas here, especially @slavagh, seams very likely. I doubt it will be something else than a duel, as Odium told Taravangian during his deal with him, it's binding not by the words, that can be differently interpreted, but by the spirit of it. Dalinar is convinced it will be a fight to death. I think the loophole was already foreshadowed to us twice - Hoid told Jasnah a story about person who always bets only on win or lose, but he lost to someone who made him draw and second time in a Death Rattle. The contract Dalinar and Odium made, specify what happens in case of Dalinar victory and defeat, but not a single word about a draw - what will happen if both contestants would withdraw or both be killed. When duel ends in draw, the contract no longer apply, and Odium would be freed of it. The first ever Death Rattle in whole series foreshadows this, and we all know what Brandon likes to do with this. "We are his" probably refers to the origin of Humans and their first god, Odium. 1000 days till Everstorm is obvious. But the first part "The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice." is unknown to us. What could this mean? Cold, mountain, stream, ice? Well it gives me impression that it could be about Urithiru, probably related to duel of Champions - "the love of man" - with all that was spoken in this topic, its fits with someone like Dalinar being forced to fight someone he loves - Adolin, Gavinor, or stoping the fight because of love - Adolin vs Kaladin, Dalinar vs Vyre (stoped by Kaladin) etc. I bet this part of the Death Rattle predicts the ending of SA5 and duel of Champions. Unfortunatly I think Dalinar might get killed, hurt or broken. But the reason I think that would be a case is soo many Death Rattles predicting that something bad will happen to Stromfather. He will suffer, maybe become a deadeye, be shattered, or be ripped off from Roshar completely - there are too many Death Rattles suggesting something like this. Stormlight will be gone, Highstorms will be gone. Only endless weeping and darkness will remain. And there is that Death Rattle: This also refers to water raising. I think that whatever Todium will do to Dalinar and Stormfather causing endless weeping, would flood Roshar and unintentionally lead to flooding and destruction of Kharbranth. This will mean breaking of the deal between Odium and Taravangian, hurting him in process, making him unable to act and susceptible to attacks. Todium destroying Kharbranth would be very poetic and fitting. Every time when he was emotional and passionate, he cried easily, "they were his own tears". I think it will be a duel, between two people who are loved by Dalinar, or love eachother (Kaladin/Dalinar vs Adolin, Adolin/Dalinar vs Gavinor, Adolin/Dalinar vs Vyre) and both will agree to withdraw form it, or both will kill eachother. It might also be stoped by Dalinar himself, which would mean breaking the contract, and that would harm both Dalinar and Stormfather as well, stoping Hightstorms and Stormlight, which would begin endless weeping. Drawing the fight beause of love is the loophole for Odium.

All of that curses are a big deal if you're going to the war. And then you have gun, and we're back to discussion "Roshar can't copy even more advanced guns". But some people does. That could be said about most of our topics here, at some point we started them to make some point, now it's all lost. Were those forces of Autonomy that are now gone? What? I don't remember! They didn't but they were made to carry bombs in them, but they falt short on range and payload mass - We were already talking about it. Steelrunner with spike surprising him in the bath. Or nuke. Protected doesn't mean invincible.

And get curses like not recognising gemstones, seeing upside down, being mute/deaf etc. I doubt Dalinar with his expiriance and randomness of Nightwatcher would allow for that. Not to mention how much of this can be made by her, and how much only by Cultivation (guns?). Cool idea anyway, not practical and unpredictable, can backfire terribly. I'm not denying that many would passed and hit, some might get nudged just enough to miss the target. It's not like that he would be actively observing Tukar, it's that someone might have tell him in regular conversation, he might have heard the news, heard the gossips or what sprens and people talks about, saw himself in one of his ventures outside, and then just connect the dots coming to conclusion that Ishar has a Honorblade. Tukari presence is noticeable weird in CR. Words of Founding consists of all the knowledge that Sazed had in his metalminds, that most likely included war, religions withs strong war focus, and of course the fall of Final Empire and wars of Last Empire - there was quite a bit of battles there. He was tasked wtih preserving all knowledge, war is part of that knowledge. Just basic of it, and patrols and guarding a camp is very basic, that helps to train troops as well. I ment, putting illusion right on someone's face that did not expected that. In that case, she was putting illusions on herself, limiting the distance the light would need to travel significantly, plus she was some distance away from witnesses. That was different. Read the chapter. The illusion of her father and mother and long gone drawings appeared. Different casue 3 realms were close. Light has mass, but what Jasnah saw was too much for that explenation, like Shallan put more mass to her illusions than just in normal Stormlight. Yes, but that still is my point. Autonomy did not resolved all of problems they were facing at all times. She provided a lot of help, but people still had to figure some stuff by themselves to get there. Tbf idk why are we discussing it? Yet Sazed did not most likely could replicate Wax experiment? Yes, she could understand principles, made estimations, but that still was something new to her is some way. From coppermind about Trellium: I was talking about the tests and rocket launches. They tested the bombs in caves, they tested rockets with intention they would have bombs in them. They had electricity provided in a way that would make it portable/launchable. And they were all doing it in Bilming. That's why. Yes, all of that I previously pointed out. But we don't know it. We don't know if it's radioactive or stable, but most likely both are stable. That's why I think that's not regular fission, as not done with neutrons spliting unstable nuclei, but rather strong nulcear force acting on protons and neutrons ripping them appart and spliting the atoms. Or something different. We don't know, but the effects mostly resemblems nuclear fission and fusion. It literally leaves Atium and Lerasium as products. That's why it's best to compare it to fission as that's the closest we have. It might be, that the same way Harmony is a fusion of Ruin and Preservation (figuratively speaking), Harmonium is a fusion of Atium and Lerasium., and fission of Harmonium splits it into Atium and Lerasium. All of that was to point out to you, that you can't just scale up a chemical reaction and multiply by 10 to make potentially fission/fusion one, as they both work on different principles. The energy in chemical reactions comes from bonds between atoms, in fission it's from nuclei being ripped apart. Chemical reactions deals with electromagnetic force, while fission with strong nucelar force. Fission reaction is millions time more energetic than chemical reactions. They are just not comparable to each other it the way you did. And that's why I suggested to measure the power of bombs (H-W and H-T) by looking at the scale of Wayne's explosion and damage done, and goals H-T bomb was meant to achieve. My point is, Dalinar is irreplaceable, he has the most experience, knowledge, skills, intuition, training (11 years!!! and with Ishar involvement), and he's renomed leader and commander. You cannot just slap a bond on some random dude and make him new Dalinar. Even with being a squire, he would still be lacking all of that in comparison to Dalinar, and would still require weeks or months of training before being sent to Scadrial, by this time all Rosharians and Radiants would be dead.

In future posts inform that you are still reading OB.

Yes, only Skybreakers didn't abandon their Oaths, and then began to hunt and kill those who might be close bonding a spren, like Lift and Ym

ROM, you mean RoW Rhythm of War? It's about the secret that caused Recreance. Did you read Oathbringer to the end?

On Roshar yes, on Scadrial only Dalinar can - and they can't carry unlimited Stromlight. And that's the Scadrial's tactics, drain Radiants out of Stormlight. Because modern artillery is different than it was 100 years ago? During 1914-1915 Germany produced 3500 artillery pieces, that's 10 a day. Scadrial of course cannot compete with Germans, but still they have heavy industry switch to war production and after few weeks/months they would be able to produce several a week or even 1 per day later. And there is rate of fire. Early AA guns were able to shot tens rounds per minute and late WW1 more than 100rpm. So tens of thousands are not needed. It's random explosion that the boulder might met, at it would gave it horisontal speed, if strong enough it might just missed the gun it was falling toward. My point is, if Kalak already have figured it out how to get out of Roshar, after hearing about Tukari in CR, which are now under Ishar rule, and cannot get into perpendicularity because of the war, he might jus figure it out (as they now each other for thousands of years) that Ishar has reclaimed his Honorblade, like Nale before, and if he knew how, then he would very much go to see Ishar already. And Tukari presence is weird in CR. Maybe I overestimated but they would be sleeping soon. They are not stupied not to have night patrols as police already have them... Why do you assume they're idiots? It's stupid. They have generals that successfully deploy weapon against Malwish ships - even without being at war. Night patrols and guards are not just for protecting yourself from enemy, but to prevent desertion, spies, unruliness, theft, and it's a training for guards to increase their observation skill, readiness and discipline. That's like the very basic of camp life. There definitely were books about basic of warfare, and Elend's conquests left by Sazed that describes how to guard your camp... Because the alarm was sounded and the risk is very high? They might get into the fight, get caught, or killed and more importantly guards now knows that they were intrested in the storage, so they will search it for anything unusual, and they would find that food started to spoil fast, or hunger is getting stronger around it. They would quickly find that fabrial and from now on they would know what your plan is and work against it. And how would they not notice a stream of light going before their very eyes and forming image at first? Really, how would they not notice that? When Shallan ever made illusion just right at someone's face that - read again OB ch 61. The Stromlight is very visible before it makes an illusion. That won't work. I'm gonna repeat what I said in that message - "what was noticed by Jasnah, she might even soulcast to add matter/mass to thier illusions". To add to it, Shallan also made illusions of drawings that she'd lost. She was able to quickly made that army out of drawing she'd lost and likely add mass to it, because the 3 realms were close to each other (OB ch 120). Nothing in the books categorically disproves it, and as you pointed out in WoB, Brandon also doesn't. So it is as likely it's a sapient spren, as it's a Shardplate spren. Fair point about working with Odium. That was my point, Autonomy did not fixed all problems they faced, they had to find solution to it on their own. Maybe because it was first time for her with Harmonium during that 6 years? That never happened before as no Shard before was combined with other Shard. Ok, but Elendel does not have cabel line on the streets that could carry that power, but Wax used one to link generator with his machine. However Bilming was remade for Autonomy, and Set would certainly put proper cables that would link the rockets with city's power plant, giving them the power they would need. Or not even, as that power was only nessesery just before the reaction, So the onboard generator on rocket or however they do it, would work, as they HAD working rockets for smaller yields, so somehow they resolved that problem. Form the description of it, what result it have and what best fits it in our world. It splits Harmonium into Atium and Lerasium, convertes mass into energy according to E=mc^2, and is the most powerful and most efficient explosion ever made - which fits very well to fission (and thermonuclear bombs as that is both fission and fusion). And the atmosphere ignition talk from Harmony was a clear reference to Trinity test, and real worries about igniting atmosphere with first fission bomb test. That just fits the best all characteristics of the reaction that took place. It could be also pure conversion of mass into the energy, like matter - anti-mater reaction, but that is even less comparable to chemical reaction of water and cesium. Until Brandon says what it was, we might as well try to compare it with the most fitting reaction we can make. Not as a fact, but as a best fitting model. Yes, but Sibling and Stormfather are different, they work differently. And quoting you from this post: Teaching new Bondsmiths would take a long time, during which Roshar on Scadrial would be stuck without Stormlight and completely annihilated. Not to mention Navani is on Roshar with Sibling, and we don't know if she can use her powers away from them, and she is making Towerlight, not usable for Radiants. Dalinar is the single point of failure in that invasion, without him, Roshar is doomed. His experience and abilities are irreplaceable, and without them, Roshar can't fight.

Igniting atmosphere of an planet means fusing its atoms with one another accros whole planet, like in the core of an star or in thermonuclear bomb. That is jus not physically possible, as it was known issue before first even nuclear test, scientists made calculations and it just shown that it can't be done. The atmosphere is not dense enough for it, it composed of heavier elements, that requires even more energy to fuse, the energy losses to radiation always overcompensate the gains due to the reactions, and the temprature that is require is jus too high to reach and sustain in whole atmosphere. So yes, Harmony said that, but it's not possible. He probably was too panicked to realised that.

500kg rock is still a big one. They would have to carry it for very long way, and it would slowly drain them out of Stormlight. Just as Scadrial wanted. Yes it can, but how many artillery pieces can they destroy at once? Not everyone, and losses would be quickly replenished by industry. And rocks falling from skies, can be slightly pushed out of course by explosions when passing through the range of artillery. And you know this because Kalak told you? Or maybe because Ash or Nale are the examples of other heralds having knowledge about other surges? It's about ability of Bondsmithing that Kalak needs, if he had figured it out. Yeeeah, that's make sense. No it didn't. That's why guards are for, that's why night shift is for, that's why patrols are for. Vital parts of the camp are guarded by multiple guards, and patrol often (not just by 2 people). Even if whole camp wakes up (but it wouldn't), they would be sleeping again after 10 minutes, and that won't cause much sleep deprivation. And if alarm is sounded, Lightweavers would abandon their mission on the spot. Also did we ever had someone making huge illusions right in front of someone's eye that they did not noticed? Shallan is always making her illusions out of anyone's sight. I'm not talking about boosting, I'm talking about special combination of making first perpendicularity and swearing next ideal as a Bondsmith, and how that affected people nearby. Taln gains his sanity back, Jasnah could do soulcasting like never before etc. The three realms were almost one at that point. Shallan had lot's of Stormlight, and what was notieced by Jasnah, she might even soulcast to add matter/mass to thier illusions. That was one time thing due to special circumstances. Cause it would be pointless for Taravangian to lie when Dalinar could easily check it for himself now? Yes, that what I was talking about. Autonomy did not gave them answers to the all the problems Set was facing. She gave them help but they had to figure it out themselves. Not to mention, H-T reaction was still a novelty for even Autonomy. Don't forget it was Telsin bargain with Autonomy, that she would control Scadrial instead of destroying it, as Autonomy had a back up plan. And where you got that about industrial cables? Yet somehow they had working rockets for smaller warheads, but that was not what they wanted. Yes, that wasn't chain reaction, it was Harmonium reacting with water/water vapor in the air. And it was long after the initial fission reaction. Wax was holding Harmonium in his hands. Not a smart move, he admitted that. I don't really understand you at this point as I gave you multiple examples as how it's not just a mass in case fission reaction. Trellium is relevant, but it's placement might be even more revelant, allowing for lower Trellium mass but bigger explosion. We don't really know that much about it. But I yes, Trellium is important too. That's true. And how many squires Bondsmiths currently have? How many candidates for squires are currently known? Zero. Even if Dalinar gets his squires, they would still be years behind him, and Stromfather is known for "you're not ready for this" and "you will know it when you're ready for it". They would not be any replacement for Dalinar.

But the Navani's carriage was out of wood, not a huge stone rock, weighing few tons. With the few trick, like flickering lights, it would be confusing for Windrunners to find correct target. But does Nale possesses the knowledge that might help him escape Roshar? So why would he bother with purelakers? I didn't say they are rare, just not everyday. It would be spotable if the guards recognise it. In OB Shallan had a freshly sweared Bondsmith around, that made first perpendicularity in thousands of years behind her back. It's a war time, ammunition needs to be delivered for morning bombardment, wounded treated, food deliverd to kitchens for breakfast, messages for officers - not to mention regular patrols around vital points of a camp. Anyone of them walking through illusions would raise the alarm. So it's safe to assume that half-shards are traping high sprens, as Taravangian said. How big was Autonomy involvement? If she was that involved why didn't they make rockets that could reach Elendel and carry the bomb? Where do you got that it's only around Trellium? Couldn't it be a chain reaction, as Harmonium splitting is causing more Harmonium to split? What if Trellium was bigger would it react with Harmonium farther away? They could place enough Trellium to react with all Harmonium, or change the placement of Trellium. We don't know with what forces or particles it interacts, but it doesn't seems to be radioactive (nor Harmonium), so I think it could react via strong nuclear forces or electromagnetism (not like in real fission, in which neutrons splits atoms). We need Brandon on this one. And I gave you multiple examples of how it's not pure calculation of mass with real life fission physics. And here you also gave example of that, as if it's limited to just around Trellium, than adding more Harmonium won't make explosion bigger, as it's not reacting with Trellium (by your statement), it could even decrease the power. Harmonium is fissable material, not Trellium. So, what would happened if you have big amounts of Cesium, like a few tons of it, and pour just 0.5l of water onto it? Would all of Cesium reacts? I don't know, I'm not good at chemistry. From the reaction equasion 2Cs + 2H2O → 2CsOH + H2 it doesn't looks like it. So not all Harmonium would react with Wayne's water? That's my point, and he wasn't engulfed by fireball, or burned by thermal radiation - which would happend if the yield was big enough. Above 1Mt fireball has a radius of more than 1km. And how would that help somehow to recover Bondsmith with 11 years of experience and unique bond with Stormfather? Not much. They would be doomed without Dalinar.

But the smoke is also made on groud level from the barrels, but yes, it would help Windrunners, unless there were some obstacles like hills. And how much light would be needed to carry huge rocks with them high into the air and then drop them? That might be a problem, and not to mention accuracy. For him it might be as he knows Ishar is involved. Mists are not that often, and it wouldn't? Ilusions take time to form, Stormlight is moving out of Lightweaver to form in place - that would be visable. And you are talking about putting huge illusions in the most busy area in the whole camp - where, night or day, people constantly walking by or into the storages - you can't isolate them from the ilusions, guards would be alarmed immediately. Yeah, but that was to Szeth to save his own skin, what he told to Dalinar is different, still not 100% sure that's true, but it might be, as Taravangian promised to share that knowledge, so we might as well take it as truth for now. But if he did not share that, you don't have much Half-Shards as they are not on your side anymore. Just a few of them. Again, that's not how fission works. 6 years for secret organisation with relatively low resources is still short, and impressive when they most likely didn't understand what they were really doing, but not enough to make it perfect - it took project manhattan 3 years to develop first nukes and they had backing of the US economy plus the most brilliant minds of 20th century. And still what they made was not at maximum efficiency - it was far from that. Going back to the biggest non-fussion bomb Ivy KIng (540 kt) detonated in 1952, used 60kg of Uranium. Little Boy used 64 kg of Uranium, 4kg more, and had only 15 kt yield. Ivy King was 36 times more powerful than Little Boy, with lower mass of fissable material. Fission doesn't scale up proportionally with the mass, it's not that easy. The best way to estimate yield of Harmonium-water reaction is by looking at the damage it had done, as it's often done to estimate explosions. We know that some buildings in the docks (docks are outcite outer circle of the city, along the bay) collapsed, and windows around the docks were shattered, but not across whole city. We also know, that right before Wayne send Wax into the ocean, lights of the city were visable - that could be around 10 km away from the city, but before blast accrued ship would get some distance closer. So let's compare it to the Beirut explosion again, where hospital 1km away was so damaged, that it couldn't function at all, and people were being treated outside, and windows were shattered on the airport 10km away. I would say, that, depending on the distance from the ship to the docks, it could be as powerful as Beirut explosion (0.5-1.2 kt), or if closer, below 1kt but above 100 t - which is still very big for conventional, non-nuclear explosion. Anything around 1MT would shatter windows across the entire city. And how does Harmonium-water reaction work? We don't know. Wayne had only small bottle of water with him, and would that cause the entire Harmonium to react? I daubt it. And to another thing, that aligns with my estimats, is that Wax was not engulfed by fireball, and he was very close to it. But no matter estimates of H-W reaction, it still tells us nothing about H-T reaction as it is not scalable, not proportionate and not comparable in any way, as they are two very diffrent type of reaction that can't be simply scaled up. Yet Kaladin was right, and at the Heartstone battle he saved life of one of the brigde 4 crew by telling him to surrender the fight. Killing them when it gets you an advantage? I would still rather train them properly for months before sending them to the frontlines. Yes, to be fair we don't know which order has squires, but the Windrunners have the most of them. So Windrunners would be fine for longer time, when other Orders not so much when they start to lose the Radiants. I would say, that Scadiral's supplies logistics with extensive train network across and beyond Basin is pretty great, and would easily be better than Roshar's one on Scadrial. That's wrong, Anti-light and light is 100% pure energy realesed, like anti-matter and matter, they just used very small quantities of it. But Scadrials has rockets, Roshar don't. In our current discussion we assume that only Basin vs Urithiru coalition are fighting, as we don't really now what South or Fused/Singers are fully capable of. Just to make it simpler. I'm mostly agree with you @StanLemon, invasion of Scadrial would be extremely hard for Roshar, and with more and more Radiants killed, they would lose the only one advantage they have, as Radiants are the only thing that makes this invasion possible in the first place, hard to counter, but still doable. And killing Dalinar alone would be the end for Roshar.

Yeah, but we can't know this right now untill we will get SA 5, and it is unfair to Roshar to force them to fight against someone 10 years further in the future. So we assume progress will happen and we ignore any major plot point that could have happened like Duel of Champions, Shinovar shenanigans or BAM. Everyone at the end of RoW is still alive, factions are still as seen in RoW etc. It's the best we can to have this discussion without constantly arguing what could have happened in SA 5. We also assuming that both sides can get to the other planet, without specifying how. as that also still causing a lot of disagreement. We are discussing what level of technological advancement they will reach in 10 years, or how numerous and skillful will Radiants become in that time - that is still hot topic.

We assuming that in 10 years between RoW and TLM, Radiant's numbers will increase to hundreds or low thousands. That's so nice, I'm glad to be back too Taiwan and China are rather bad example, as both of them don't recognise each other as independent states, but as rebeled provinces. And even when airspace is invaded by single plane, they don't call up country-wide mobilisation, but dispatch interception planes. Because from the moment they saw Windrunners that glows in the air (multiple observation posts), they started to fire, that's creating smoke covering the view - Radiant's might not know where to aim stones at. And Scadrials might even further complicated the task if they use flashing lights, and dummy artillery to confuse Windrunners. And then they run out of the Stormlight and die in the middle of the dark ocean. Not a good idea. It was about dealing with fabrials or just urban warfare? But yeah, for fabrials, explosions (not straight up carpet bombing entire city) would work, as leaching or diging them up. But Elendel is loosing it's economic dominance in the Basin, so it's still significant, but many factiories are already located outside of Elendel. In case of an siege, factories would be either moved, or defended with work still being done inside. And population in the Elendel would be conscripted to help defending city (seting traps, baricades, delivering messages/supplies, helping wounded etc) or moved to more secure places within the city. Or "It's 7 o'clock, time for daily explosives tsunami to destroy any pesky gems within the city - take cover" There is but Tukari suddenly apearing in large number where they were absent befere, for smart Kalak who lived thousandes of years and know what is normal and what not, migh be clear indication, that Ishar, being now god of Tukar, reclaimed his Honorblade and is sending them into CR. And that's the whole point of using hemalurgy. Oh, I didn't even thought about seekers. But it would be noticable when whole army eats dinner, and then is hungry right after it. Seting up illusions is visable, they would notice that some Stormlight just got moved in front of their faces. It's not just about the distance, it's about people's perception of that far away land. But we've already agreed to assume that they will get there somehow, so that gives us nothing. That don't appear regularly, are sometimes stronger/weaker, and are not a source of power for regular Metalborns. Taravangian mention in OB that sprens in half-shards are the one creating Radiands - OB chapter 100 - Coppermind: I don't think it would scale proportionally with Fission reaction - by the time it explodes not every atom of fissable material will be hit by neutrons (they are fast neutrons, bad at being absorbed and spliting the atom), the chain reaction last less than 1 microsecond. From wikipedia about Little Boy (15kt): Comparing to Fat Man (21kt), plutonium bomb: So it's not about the amount of mass, it's about how much of it undergoes fission (the same with fusion). As the temperature increases, it's less fission friendly, and ultimately because of temperature and blast ripping apart fissable material - the chain reaction stops. And also there is critical mass - how much of fissable material is require in one place for it to go critical - it means, they can't just make it bigger as it will ultimately reach critical mass and go critical (not supercritical which is an explosion). Conventional explosion do not scale up to nuclear ones. The biggest non-nuclear man made explosion was 2.9 kt, Bejrut explosion was 0.5–1.2 kt (6th on the list). The first ever nuclear explosion (Trinity test) had yield of 25kT. And there still is Fusion left, which during first use - Castle Bravo test - was severely underestimated and had a yield 2.5 bigger than predicted, which caused huge contamination, out of the pre-designated area , forcing US to evacuate citizens of nearby islands, and ultimatly killing 1 japanease fisherman (all on board suffered severe radiation poisoning). Training is a thing, not every order has squires, and even they will run out. New Radiants needs to be trained, not thrown at enemy for meat grinding. In that way you would quickly ran out of Radiants and lose the war. In RoW year had passed, and Kaladin still thought that many of his original Brigde 4 members are not trained enough.

Hi guys, I'm back, did you miss me? Almighty save me... Frequencies can be changed, messages can be coded, and Roshar can't use Radios without electricity. But they are not in a war, but in trade relations. Elendel open sirspace to them. So no, it isn't, it's just show of force. Because there is little plated Radiants and tasks must be done? With war time industry focus, where factories will switch produstions to war equipment, they won't. Ammunition can be made quickly in huge numbers. 1. no? and you think people would like to stay in home when invading alien army is incoming? With proper propaganda they would gladly burn even forests. It's no problem. 2. You right, but regular soldiers mostly are. And only Windrunners can fly, so for them it would take a lot of effort to coortinate large scale operation with other orders in range of AA guns. Glowing in air is easy to spot. Using CR is also an option. So it would be hard, but Scadrial has big railway connections to quickly react and transfer troops. Yes, but that's slower, and that is my point. Ok, I will take your word on that. His spren denied him 4th ideal I think, from the conversation they had. But even you must admit, that Szeth is a special case, There won't be many like him. I'm being nitpicking here, but you can have more than one conversation in a day Behind a boat fully underwater? I guess you can, but the water resistance is 1000 times bigger so it would be much slower than in the air for Windrunners. Edgedancers could, but they would have to swim, so it would be extreamy slow. And how would they found it? So how many orders do you already include in that endeavor, it soon ended with everyone searching for big crystals and not fighting. You have to count pressure, darkness, vastnes of the oceans, and structures on the bottom. And if it was doable Fused would already recover Thrill. And she herself says that Maya's words are much worst than what they thought previously. 10 millon in heavly Industrial society vs 100/2 million (not all of Roshar) in medieval one. Not to mention 10 million are already on Scadrial, Rosharians are not. What bombs? TNT, grenades and artillery shells - yes, H-T bomb - no. It's urban warfare so there would be explosions in urban area. That's why you evacuate population or make sure they safe in predesignated places. When the police is hunting that secret organisation for sinking ships, because the governor don't want to take a blame for sinking some rich guy's ships? How that geting lost in crowed worked for Set? Tbf I also believe they might be Skybreakers, but I acknowledge there might be other, simpler explanation. By hearing about Tukari in CR, or hearing news? He have his ways to be on time with news. Aluminum doesn't have to touch a gem to have an effect - Kholinar's aluminum rook doesn't allow spanread to work - the sheer presence of aluminum might change the effects of fabrials. Using aluminum with fabrials is still a novelty. But I admitt, I'm not good at fabrials. Whatever it is that would steal the Nahel Bond - both would work I think? Duralumin for sure as it steals connection. Aluminum would steal Radiant powers so bond would be still there and they would be able to heal? With aluminum you could steal healing powers, so no healing for Radiants. Did I get that right? Or nicrosil to steal Stormlight if they don't have any more - no healing. Dead Radiant in all cases. Yeah, use horses or that man-power little rail vehicle. With a lot of people involved, and devided in teams each responsible for some part of the traks, and with already existing train signals to warn incoming trains, it is doable. They can also run weak current through likeevery 1 km, with detector at the end, to check if the rail is intact. Or have observation and lookout posts for glowing man in the sky. Counter by leacher grenades and, when it's spoiling/getting hungry to fast they would notice, invastigate and discover what it was - they could then counter that easily with more leacher grenades or changing storages on regular basis. And illusions won't give you the understanding of language and customs, guard's won't let anyone unauthorised into the storage, and suspicious activities will be noticeable. I don't know, maybe it's because several dozens light years away? Yes, but that was about whole planet, not investiture density in a gem. Comparing metalminds to sharplates in not giving us anything to deduce how much investiture is in a gem. On Roshar you got Highstorms being High investiture, on Scadrial there is no such a thing. And I'm sure that the Windrunners (mostly former slaves) would be very pleased to use gems with Honorsprens or other sapient sprens (slavery of sapient sprens) in them. That's totally aligned with thier second oath. No problem at all. Twice as powerful as cesium at what? Are estimating H-T reaction which is fission or H-water reaction which is pure chemical? And how does H-T fission work? It's not easily scalable to tell just 10 or 100 time more, esspecialy when Harmonium-water reaction is chemical, so not proportionate to fission/fusion one. There are no neutrons released (most likely, we don't know if harmornium or trellium are radioactive, or if one of them is "neutron generator", but no one describe them as hot or burning, and no on got radiation poisoning so no?), I would think that the fission is made by pure nuclar forces, not neutrons splitting atoms (as there is no moderator or neutron reflector placed to make explosion), therefore acting on all atoms at given rage, drastically increasing fission efficiency, compare to regular earthly fission. Or there can be something else going on, like Harmonium spliting up into Atium and Lerasium, and then immediately those two atoms combines back into Harmonium again with fusion reaction - which would make it work like a real thermonuclear bomb, explainig yield. Biggest non-fusion, pure fission, bomb had yield of 500kT, so Harmonium-Trellium reaction migh be a fussion one, to explain the yield. We don't know anything about god's metals, we need Cosmere periodic table with properties of god's metals etc, to properly understand how it word. We need Brandon to show us the math! I'm literally writing this in every post, most Harmonium is coming from 6 year long trade exchange with Malwish, some little amounts are form Set - leftovers from tests, or remember there were two factions inside Set, they might heve its own separate little pile of Harmonium. Just a little. Yes, but right after it Sazed was accurately predicting what can be done to stop the bomb and what results it would give. And I give you better estimates not involving Sazed. Oh yeah, me to, I want to see math, numbers and everything! They got Harmonium somehow after BoM (I don't know either, the downed Malwish ship from BoM where Allik and Telsin were?), and they made bomb to fit it in rocket first. So the very likely make it big enough to destroy Elendel, but not too crazy big, as they wanted to fit in rocket, which they failed. I'm not talking about huge pile of Harmonium, most of it Basin would get from trade, small amounts from Set. It would be a pain in the back, but manageable, and damaged train rails would be reusable, so not that big of an waste. And it will be troublesome for Windrunners as they are all for protection of innocent, and not for endangering innocent, unarmed civilians with their actions. They might not want to do it, knowing they might cause death. And large scale attacks of Windrunners are aimed at army, not civilians. Even in RoW, Windrunners don't want to fight with regular Listeners. It's not about choice, it's about results of thier actions - Dalinar did choose to fight at the Tower, Elhokar did choose to remain the king - yet they still became those who cannot protect themself. But Set did made rockets that worked and could carry warheads, but not big enough. They didn't have time to make bigger rocket as Authonomy gave them deadline. The Set could not scale down bomb, as they couldn't - they wanted whole Elendel gone, and that was the power required to do it. They didn't have time to make rockets bigger to fit that bomb, they already made. So Set made it somehow, it worked, Scadrial have it now. Dalinar have to open perpendicularity few times during single battle. Now you got much more soldiers and supplies, more Radiants - he would have to do it more offten. Moving him around would be good idea, but logistical nightmare. And still he would be vulnerable in that time, and easily to locate. Yes, it is. Or by forcing them to constatnly heal with heavy gunfire, artillery fire, AA fire, TNT-in-the-face fire, crushing them with heavy things one after another etc. They CAN be killed, and that's the whole point. Scadrial relies heavily on regular soldiers, and Roshar soly on Radiants, which there are not many - you make Radiants suffer heavy casualties, you win.

Maybe that's better you can't respond to everything, it's getting too long Yes, there are only Sazed words for that, and estimates of what Harmonium with water does. But that the only informations we got, so what other choice we have? And maybe he is distracted, he is the only one that can properly evaluate it's power for us, as he knows that stuff better than Wax. And about ignition of atmosphere, he know how to make thermonuclear weapons, and they are made with putonium nuclear detonation igniting fusion, so it's reasonable in his distracted mind to worry about it, as he can't run math that fast or something? I don't know why he said that tbf. But he is the only source on that estimation. And we are scaling it down to more reasonable levels, and I used only once - to denay Roshar entrance. So, going with you, to fully destroy Elendel (radius of 5 miles/8 kilometers) with a surface blast (not airborn), Set would have to have bomb with a yield of 5.5 MT. And that's still a big one. And I'm using https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ to establish that, looking at moderate blast damage radius, to fully destroy most buildings. But even smaller bombs, like Fat Man (20kT) would destroy all of Roshar forces if concetrated in one place, when crossing. And when delivered by rockets it's an airburst, so their range increases. EDIT But wait, that is only if the explosion happens in the middle of the city, they had bomb on the ship to be detonated in the port - so we need to double the radius - 16km. And that's precisely 43MT - the biggest, Tsar Bomb, had 50 MT. The one they already have, the one confiscated from Set. There are already workers working on the train lines, inspecting them, checking for damage and obstructions, incoming trains also reports damaged sections. Train tracks will be delivered on trains... so that's fast. And they have radio. So you would only need to increase their numbers using system already in place. Do you really believe that few train track damaged would paralyzed entire network and forced Scadrial to capitulate? And I wonder how Windrunners will feel with causing trains to derail killing innocent civilians? I think they would be strongly against that. Because Set wanted much bigger effect, in war it is not necessary. They wanted strategic nuclear weapon, I want tactical. I don't want to level city. When rocket on ground - use electricity from the grid, when airborn, use generators on board to do it. Set had everything done, they just couldn't make rocket big enough to fit bomb they wanted to use, which they couldn't scale down. We can. To recharge huge numbers of gems with Stormlight for ever increasing needs of the army and Radiants? He would have to do it few times a day. Yes, they can do a lot of damage. but it also carries a risks, as if they get cut off Stormlight, they will be dead.

I'm sorry if you fell offended, I didn't mean that. It's not needed for Scadrial defence. and Roshar doesn't have technology to intercept it. As there is no immediate threat of invasion, no mass mobilisation announced? Not every Radiant will have Sharplate. Pure pressure wave of nearby explosion will crack their gems and that would cause light to leak fast. No it won't. But that's not the waste of ammunition, as it serves its purpose, and with factories they can be made quickly. Yes, that "master" that set his whole planet ablaze. And they will be talking about remading Oathpact. And they will be forced to do it here to? Slowing down Rosharian army that is engage with Scadrial's army? It helped moving light from gem to gem fast. Yes, that WoB, but I have a question as I want to better understand it. Does that "omnipresence" refers to whole Cosmere, or just Roshar, as question was asked more about Roshar itself? On Rorshar Stormfather is omnipresent, in Cosmere - I don't know. And Shards are bound to the sysmtes they invested in as well. And if that omnipresence is bounded by Roshar, then Stormfather will be needed to be moved to Scadrial the same way as other sprens, which would be devastating but let's ignore that. And we've never seen them (Hoid is not an example). So let just say, that they will progress normaly as others, but there are squires that are ready for bonding and jumping into 3rd Ideal. Windrunner under water? Where water resistance is 1000 times greater than air? No. If they were consider bonds they some would do it just like some Honorsprens did it, but they didn't. Now they think surges are even greater danger. 10 million people. And it might work long enough, and that's the wholo point of it. Some might, most want to live, as they were doing it to be alive. That's what that level of power is duing (kilometers as 1-4). I'm usually thinking about 15MT bomb, yet even smaller one as 1MT will be enough, as there is no need for someting more powerful. The bomb in TLM was estimated to destroy both Bilming and Elendel if exploded in the middle of the bay - they are around 70 miles away from each other, so 112km, so radius of 56km - that's a looooot. Not even Tsar Bomb had that big power - so I'm scaling down a lot, and giving them few bombs made from leftovers, less than 10, yet I'm using fewer in my predictions. It's hard to estimate what H-T bomb can make, as we didn't get specific numbers about amount of material used in them and power. The very material making that bomb will became plasma. "there won't be a shockwave to break the box open" I'm sorry what? That bomb will be levitating in the middle of the box or will be connectet to it? And what will happen to the energy released, that I'm sure you know, can't be destroy? Disappear? It will be transmited by different medium - particles and electromagnetic waves - that will transfer so much energy to the box it will vaporised it, and will transfer that energy into the air surrounding the box, heating it up, compreasing it, and expanding outwards - making the same heatwave, pressure wave, fireball etc - the little box of vacuum won't change anything, as in nuclear explosion releases to much energy to be contained by it. But we can switch vacuum for hydrogen/helium/nitrogen gas or whatever they come up with. They can make hydrogen with electrolysis. So it's accidental mass species murdur - still resulting of death of 8 species. And the fabrials are still gems susseptable to explosions happening nearby. Because it's a SECRET organisation? But the very first moment he apear on page in Lasting Integrity was when he came back from somewhere else? So why he didn't go to the Ishar in that few months if he know what to do, as he wants to get of that planet by all means? So tips would be still pushable? And wouldn't aluminum used like that messed up whole fabrial? It has an effect on fabrials. With what bond? The one that was stolen? And apperently sprens might get even quickly killed before they will break their bond, but that will not happen, it's just to kill Radiants And yet Steris manage to organise successful evacuation. Traintracks can be checked for damage regularly and replaced on spot. Because it's a policy? Army and police will be involved? They would fear the invading force? So Scadrials will be just watching Rosharians planting fabrials in storages and camps? That easy? Yes, or move all supplies at once, they have some time for it, weeks. Doable. And that is something very reasonable to assume, finally. Frustration wanted to teleport straight on Scadrial. How much investiture is in single gem? Not much. Didn't Wax pushed invested metalminds/objects before TLM? Yes, that's better and logical. Before I took it as Roshar having 10 years speciffically to resolve problems about Scadiral. Long, extended frontlines, lot's of Radiants. It might take a fair amount of them to do it, but also leave some for other tasks, fair enough. It was about FUN and definitely NOT overcomplicated and real scenario of giving everyone spikes to spike Radiants. But if some people starts spiking Edgedancers that tries to help wounded Scadrials, than they might look at entire population of Scadrial as enemies, as they don't know where the blow would come from. How about organizing them to train to fight first? That was whole point. Still that shield would be quickly shredded to pieces, as Kaladin's shield during battle on Tower. As we could see in TLM, Ghostbloods have many non Scadrial individuals. And learning about Ghostbloods doesn't mean learning everything about Scadrial as well, just more of how they operate, what are they doing, where are its agents, and to some extend technology involved - but I would guess more investiture related like Seons. And we both agree on that assumpions, and extrapolation of Radiants skills. At first they might not care, later they will checked, which I don't know now how to counter sprens. And if you don't know the answer than spike them. So he took a lot of expensive spheres worth fortune, not the usuall amount. Was it described in RoW/OB how much usually Kaladin is having in his pockets to compere it? That's something better than bulletproof or F-Gold - plot armor. But nooo, I love that scene, especially when Sazed sent him a flash of siege of Luthadel. Sooo full time skybeam? MeLaan - by rowing back to Scadrial fast. So, yes weeks at best. I don't assume they won't progress, I'm focusing more on regular people and what can they do on both sides as they would be vital for invasion on that scale. Radiants are more like a tanks. I was talking about a year in between books. But that was a big progress. Oh, the thread was over long time ago. I'm just here for the after party. They have bombs, they moved them, they made big boom, they have rockets, used them, so just make bombs smaller, and put in rocket as intended? Is that really that big of an assumption to make? And slaves, and some more food as each soulcaster has its limits, and some material, metalworks, woodworks, tools. There will be a lot of soulcasting (that will drain a lot of Stormlight) but still supplies will be needed from Roshar. And the further the army goes, the more streached will the supply lines became. And no, catching Scadrials as a slaves will only motivate more Scadrials to fight. And there is nothing to forage if the earth is scorched. Moreover new "exotic" food will cause further illness, diarrhea etc. Not to mention how lower oxygen level will impact Rosharians, and that's a big one again. What would Rock say? Yes, at all time. It's like they're not exist at all for me. We don't know what they have, do they even have guns, radio, electricity etc? So no, they are not part of it. Didn't you see that? Don't get me wrong, Radiants are powerful and most definitely will be hard to deal with. They're more powerful than anything Scadrial has. With many assumptions we are making (I even include not using H-T bombs to drag on conflict to compare what can be done, as at every stage a could just say they dorp H-T bomb and win) Roshar have fair chances of winning, but that's soly because of Radiants alone. Yet what was that saying again? A Shardbearer can't hold the ground? So it might as well happen, that even if Radiants win all battles, they will heve to withdraw anyway, as rest of the invasion forces will be nonexistent at that point. I'm focusing more of what regular people can do to help, to fight, and what tricks can be use to gain advantage, even for a short while. And yes, guerrilla war is the answer - Spanish people didn't know how to fight like that when Napoleon invaded Spain, and yet they quickly adapted and drain his reasorces, ultimately leading to his defeat. They switched from one big battlefield to thousend small ones, and won. That's my point, Rosharians Radiants are clearly superior and can do almost god-like stuff, but they can't be everywhere. The further the frontlines streaches, the more susceptible Rosharians will become. That might not win the war with current assumptions, but it will hurt very much. Remember how Herdaz resisted Odium's invasion for a whole year? Without any supplies, any help, resources, big population, or even single Radiant? They've done that for a whole year, agains lightning striking Regals and Fused. And Fused have all the knowledge of how to fight.

They don't have too much aluminum. It is, but it's not in CR - I used ships from CR as the decision about invasion is rather "sudden" to be more equal. Generators, perpendicularity. They can set up multiple small bombs in multiple locations, from direction of Roshar or close to the CR's ground. That's a very big jump from little map light shows to portals to another star system to make in 10 years - possible yes, but I wouldn't say probable, as in a year he did not do much progres in boosting other orders surges. He need to push people and boxes/stuff, which would fall on Radiants. And fabrials are literally metal wires - destroyed when Wax pushes, or not fully set up yet in that scenario. so you giving now 10 years to Roshar SPECIFICALLY so they can learn all about Scadrial in preparation for invasion? How many more unfair advantages do you wanna give to Roshar just so it could won? It's getting pointless to discuss it when you constantly giving Roshar more and more just so they can be better prepared. In that scenario they constantly transporting Stormlight to the frontlines for other Radiants to use. He's ready to die, and we do not hear any stories of him on Roshar, only Worldhoppers might be source of it. Roshar don't have any Cosmere wide organisation that would probide them direct informations about other systems, only Shallan in her "fight" against Ghostbloods, might know something, but it would be more of "they using metals" than "Marsh can do this and that", and that's another speculation black hole. They have superior invested art, but they experience in warfare is useless as they face different doctrine and tactics unknown to them, Bringing sword to the gunfight is a bad idea, and Radiants won't be able to resolve all issues - as even in RoW regular soldiers do 90% of the fighting using regular supplies and logistics. You need this, and not constantly focusing on glowing man and you doing better job at this than Frustration. So yes, lets assume lots of things just to make that battle possible (which is not in any way), Radiants will be huge advantage, but my point is Scadrial can be pain in the backarmor. A real and big one, and with ingenuity, engagment of whole Basin population, and resources which they have (just see what Ranette is able to do, now give her resources of half of the planet) Scadrial can even successfully defend against Roshar, with huge losses, and giving Roshar all reasonable advantages that makes that fight possible, without jumping straight to "Radiants will deal with everything - here is WoB that it can be done". That includes that Roshar will face troubles, like logistic, supplies chains, and barely any intel at the beggining - not 10 years of preperation JUST for the invasion. Yeah, I was wrong, but main point was to kill Radiants, and make all of Scadrial's population a potential enemy in eyes of Rosharians, which for orders like Windrunner or Egdedancers might be troublesome on moral ground. And who knows, they might even defect (don't jump into that hole). Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one, so much to write. So most of they learn is from another Radiants, at least now. Skybreaker's sprens are not really teaching a lot, plus on Odium's side, sooo. Oh no, nonono. Nale met with Ishar multiple times through SA! I counted - after WoR, go hunting in Egdedancer, went back to Ishar in OB - so they are buddies, and Nale could easily help his second buddy Kalak. Yes, they wouldn't succeed, it was to show that they can be organized in relatively short time, as they thought so. Yet no Windrunner uses them, and thier Sprenshield are not that usefull, when projectiles are coming from all directions. But we are assuming they can get there, but I would rather assume with more conventional way, not instant teleport, as that assumes Radiants masters every surges and now rule galaxy, why not - SA 5-10 will be boring. And Shallan goes after Ghostbloods to prevent them from getting what they want, in which she probably succeeded, not to gather information about Scadrial 10 years in advance - if you wanna do this, than you giving Roshar every possible advandate, denying Scadrial even chance to fight, which is pointless. That's how modern urban combat works - traps are set even by simple thugs in AoL. And after multiple times of getting killed like this, they will change tactic, that will be very effective at the beginning, maybe enough to slow them down, reduce their numbers, engage and distract them from other parts of battlefield where counteroffensive is incoming, or deter them fully from trying to capture Elendel. And can move thousends of tons at once - those one. It can be made ready, that equipment was most likely transported to factory with trains in a first place. Kaladin DID go with King's personal gems (very end of WoR before epilogue Dalinar sent Renarin to authorize giving Kaladin gems out of king's treasury for his way to home, not King's Drop the gem) That was no Coinshot, that was Sword of Harmony! And he had explosives grenades launcher with shrapnels in a stairwell going spirally up - they were stupid trying to do it in the stairwell to be fair. And reduces available Stormlight for Radiants to use. Kandra will inform them, so that just few weeks of preparations (not 10 years like you are giving to Roshar...). Just the same time that would take Roshar to muster their forces, prepere supplies and go. Or Ghostbloods with Seons. I assume they just say let's attack Scadrial, and prepare, gather ships, man, resources and go, and when they start moving, that's when Scadrial will know, assuming travel through CR will take weeks/months in conventional way. Full of wires, sooo easily damageable. Yes, because people would definitely want to look from windows of their homes when alien invasion forces came to their town. That make sense instead of moving away with food and reasorces, burning what's left behind. But it wan't some might have idea how, but did not try it yet. There might be more to it than they think. And if all boosted Lightweaving can do is little moving map than that's pretty sad. It most likely can do much more, but they don't know how - so jumping from little light shows to interstellar teleportation is too big of an leap to assume. They don't know it can be done - they might achieve moving bigger number of people between CR and PR where they standing but to another planet is too much in my opinion. Ivory already chose before to bond, just like all others chose not to bond. I did not tell that they will need to fight, just gathering them will distract, and pretending to move or attack will do the job. Metal bars are for imitating weapons for anyone in CR. People can do a lot when their home is invaded by glowing aliens. It is different, but that still doesn't bring back all deadeyes. They are still dead. And many will think it's even worst to bond now, as bonding and surges themselves might cause Roshar destruction. Bigger stakes. It's just to remind to make careful predictions about what we have now, what we know now, and how might it change in 10 years, but not to involve any groundbreaking events that may or may not happen in SA 5. So Dallinar is ok, he wanted to learn with Ishar how to remake Oathpact, he learn something from him (without speculating if he remade Oathpact or not) and learn more in 10 years extrapolating the year of learning he already got + some help he might get - not by saying "he's Bondsmith unchained, he can do anything, and here is 10 WoB showing that this things can be done, even if noone on Roshar knows that". So let's assume that events and plot related stuff did not change (as it can go in any direction), but characters's power and knowlague did, and technology progress in reasonable pace, using the data we have from previous books (which very much shows that Dalinar did not progress far, maybe bondsmithig is hard after all?). Yes it is, glad you finally see it. That's not the only way of getting to Scadrial. We can assume again, for your convenience as always, that it took them 1 Rosharian month form saying "let's invide Scadrial" to getting on Scadrial without talking HOW they get there? All supplies form Roshar would use convenional way of 100 ships (which is not much for army that big and month of travel). In that situations to which I responded they feel where, or where they approaching Rosharians positions. Or use coinshoters to destroy fabrials. If only government worked like this... They want to be sure that no police would try to find them for destroying those ships, and Marasi&Wax&Wayne are really good in finding secret organisations, so why risk it? He had 2 just in short time before and after Edgedancer, and very probable sometime after discovering Parshendi. And they spend millenia fighting together and still are no buddies? If Kalak knew how, he would go to Ishar, because he want to get of Roshar really badly. Let's assume they did not wanted to cooperate, as right now they are enemy faction and that a crucial plot of SA 5 - as I mention before. They probably wouldn't want to help if Scadrial invaded Roshar as well, as seen with Odium invasion. EDIT Let's make bigger assuption, let's merge those planets together, with continets not just close to each other, but touching each other. So logistics, supply chains and "how they get there" is even less of an trouble. Who win then? I would say Radiants, not Roshar, as Scadrial will do damage with guns and technology, devastating regular troops, but over time Radiants, despite suffering heavy losses (let's face it, not every Radiant is Kaladin) will be victorious. Radiants are that strong. But do you see what I've done here? I ignore extremely huge problems that Roshar must be dealing with during invasion of planet Scadrial - logistics, supplies, getting Stormlight, and travel time - just to give Roshar another advantage, so we stop argue about the same things over and over again with different words. But that problems CAN'T be ignored in real war, Dalinar did not ignore logistics when moving against Parshendi, he did not ignor psychology when fighting with Voidbringers on Narrak, Coalition did not ignore morale when moving troops to Thaylen, and they did not ignore regular footsoldiers and supply chains when they started offensive in Azir. It was all talked about on paper in the books, as that's THE most important part of the war - not Radiants, but all the stuff happening behind the lines.

This is getting out of hand. The discussion Roshar vs Scadrial spawned several sub-discussions that I'm involved, so any time I'm talking about mistborns, fullborns, even bands, airships, Malwish, even Marsh was ignored - everything that Basin do not have access to is NOT a part of Roshar vs Scadiral. I'm not claiming that Scadiral has mistborn - it's just separate mini-discussion. I'm really trying to be reasonable with possibilities and assumptions that we can make, not have wishful thinking without connection to reality. I'm assuming that Basin, due to 6 years of trade with Malwish and arresting Set, acquire around 100 grenades, mostly in hand of police. Reasonable, but due to trade it could be easily more. So let's think about Roshar and what they could do - they decided to invade Scadrial. Kandra and Ghostbloods get that informations and inform Scadrial (Seons, or trip) and shuts down all travel from CR. But we need to assume that Roshar somehow figure out how to resolved issues with moving Sprens, Stormlight, Radiants, Dalinar out of Roshar and Radiants can use their powers on Scadrial - That is a big assumption, it's not gonna happened. But let's say it did. Now they use ships in CR, assuming they can use around 100 of them, each able to transport, let's make Roshar happy, whopping 100 people, assuming more - Radiant and it's sprens are counting as 1, supplies, horses, ship's crew, and non combatant poeple all took half of avialble space on each ship. That means whole fleet of 100 ships can transport 5000 combat units on Scadrial within few weeks/months. And when they get on Scadrial's CR they are greated with huge fireball uder their ships, that reduces them to dust - Scadrial prepared trap and set up H-T bombs in mists of CR ready to explode when Roshar's fleet arrived, insinarating all of Radiants, Dalinar, and vessels. Scadrial wins. But let's assume, that Scadiral did not do it,. Roshar uses Harmony's perpendicularity to get to PR - and they are immediately welcomed by artillery and machine gun fire pinpointing them to perpendicularity until H-T bomb explodes in their face - Scadiral wins. Assumig that did not happened, Roshar uses Dalinar to create perpendicularity and move to PR - he's making a huge skybeam visible from Elendel, telling everyone where they are. Scadrial sends responde forces to engage Rosharians that are very slowly moving from CR to PR one by one, with supplies, they begin to fight around skybeam, and H-T bomb falls from the sky, before all troops even are in PR - Scadrial wins again. Do we have to go further? Let's go, assuming that it did not happened, Roshar captures perpendicularity on Scadrial and now sets up base for all incoming troops and supplies, engaging in combat with Scadrial's forces around. Wax shows up, duraluminum steel pushes everyone around, and amongs confusion steel ferring spikes Dalinar killing him instantly - Scadrial wins, as without Dalinar, they cannot sustain supplies of Stormlight on Scadrial with sparse, slow vessels from CR. Dalinar is single point failure, if he dies, Roshar loses. And all of this was just with 5k Rosharian troops. Now all of them, hundreds of thousands are on Scadrial - and they immediately struggles for supplies, as Scadrial implements scorched earth policy - illneses, not deadly but weakening, passes through Rosharians, draining them out of Stormlight as they are being healed, Soulcasters making food, draining them out of Stormlight, and Dalinar, is forced to became permanent Skybeam to replenish Stormlight while all of Windrunners are now supllies of Stormlight to Radiants and cannot fight - if not H-T bomb, this time Death himself pays him a visit with Atium and spike - Scadrial wins. Assuming that all of above did not happened, Roshar fights for first time with Scadrial - Roshar formes line hundreds of thousands strong , they move forward into entrenched positions, Radiants are moving with them, some are closing to trenches - artillery opens fire killing thousands Rosharians in closely packed formations, follows by machine gun fire killing thousands more - within minutes Rosharians runs away suffering catastrophical losses even if Radiants are mostly still standing - morale of army is gone as they faced new technology of mass destruction for the first time, noone wants to fight - Scadrial wins and drops H-T bomb on Roshar's camp killing Dalinar. We can go on and on, but thuth is invasion cannot happen. And that above ignore so many other problems like terrain, as Basin is surrounded by mountains, and closer to Elendel they land, faster the response will be. And no glowing flying man will change that. Roshar would face so many single point failures that it is not reasonable speculations anymore but just wishfull thinking making them ignore all problems and just used Radiants to conquer Scadrial - even in SA the biggest talks are arond supplies and resources in war, not Radiants doing Radiant thing - as all campains involve massive amounts of regular soldiers, who almost recapture Sibling in first hours of Tower invasion. You seam to just ignore it and want Roshar to win, using knowlague you possessed from WoBs, that they don't even know that they don't know about it yet. You cannot just skip past problems that for now they can't resolved. If you're doing that, maybe skiped to the end and wish for Scadrial to just wave white flag and surrender before anything starts, as that's just equally probable as what you wishing for. You don's that's for stealing powers not bonds - https://wob.coppermind.net/events/402-starsight-release-party/#e13432 - but you need only to kill them. They had both pipe, and Dor in jars when they moved out of Fortress I would say without fight with Moash it would take him a little longer, but he was close. Wyndle is bad example as Lift has her whole spirit web messed up. I not sure if that first one is true, as all sprens we've seen did not knew about what can be done, in RoW most would knew as they learned from Radiants - still training new Radiants takes time. If Kalak knew what to do with connection, he would already done it with help of Ishar, as he, Nale and Ishar has good relations. So Kalad don't figure it out yet. It wan't perpendicularity, it was Navani that made Ishar sane. Yes, but that's one metalmind, not 16 at the same time. It would require more skill, and touching it for regular soulcastor, doable, but harder. That's fighting for me, and Marasi has unique skill. TLM, they were talking about using all coinshoters to pushed rocked out of Elendel - if they could organise them to do it, it can be done with small teams, yet longer to train for sure, hard, but with entire population engage doable with some (weak) results. They't don't use shields. Living let's assume it as well uses Stormlight, as dead blade did not needed it, so it's a feature of plate. Most skilled Radiant inhales light when they want, so if crystal breaks and they don't notice it, they lose all light. Unless they will get injured and inhale instinctively. Lot's but Basin was preaparing for 6 year to conflict and even some wanted to strike first, so we can assume they have hundreds/low thousands as they are easy and fast to make when you have manufactories. No they, don't artillery can fire for days or weeks constantly, they are made for that. Hundreds machine guns do the job. Rosharians won't have advantage, as morale is the most important factor of the battle, and now they face unknown enemy deadlier than any Radiant or shardblade, able to kill thousands within one minute - their lines would collapse instantly. And we all know who conquered America. You can give them 2000 Radiants, they still can't make it to Scadrial. And most of them are not 4th oath. They don't know anything about Scadrial, as they just got there, no intel, no language, no familiarity. They can throw it form other baricaded room, use murder holes on ceiling, or wires, or traps. It's all about draining Radiants out of Stromlight - very effective tactics. Yet they still have army for 350 years, still make weapons for that army and guns etc. And just now they have 6 years of preparation for conflict with Malwish, some were pushing to strike first, outside cities were preparing for war - it's all there. Tactics are implemented, even if not used. That's how military works. They know how to fight with what they got, they train, they are not stupid - assuming they can't fight as they did not had war is just making them look stupid. They have trains, all that's needed to move factory. And no, Kaladin either used storm or huge King's crystals for that travels. Not spheres. Ehhh no, it's they had too big bomb, as they hated Elendel and wanted all of it gone, not part of it, ano no rocket could fit that bombs. Rockets that they had, had to short range and only for smaller bombs, that would not be enough to destroy Elendel. All of it must be destroy, with all its people. Yet they can't ship them to Scadiral's CR in such numbers, and there is only one Elsecaller who won't do much. Using H-T bomb for Scadrial means victory and that's all that matters. All that experience is gone, when face with different new weapons. Sick for sure, yet they have moders medicine, so they would be greatly ok after some time. And using half-gods and Hoid, that all cannot get ill as an example is not gonna make it. Roshar don't have that technology, they got some toys that are simmilar to it, not whole technology. They still can't use advanced metallurgy, and they have very little aluminum. It's not just about coping it, it's about understanding it, they don't have tools to understand how it's made, too many moving parts, too much precise metalwork. Soulcasting won't make it. They can't make guns. And they can't make microscoping nuclear bombs, stop putting nukes into your gun, that bad idea. Didn't he faced 200 guys with aluminum? As it was said after, that the guys at the top, didn't have aluminum weapons as they were regular dudes, not army before. All soulcasting does is draining your Stormlight when on Scadrial - and they have soulcast for iron/steel, not for sophisticated alloys. For industrialization society is important. I thought it was there, good to know. Hoid is Hoid, not Roshar, and you don't know if Design is with him on Scadrial. Mraize is Ghostbloods, not Roshar, you can't use Scadrial's organisatio and their resources, that sole purpose it to protect Scadrial, for Roshar advantage. Dalinar don't know that. You know this, yet they don't and still did not do it - They can make some perfect gems, but not enough to support interplanetary invasion. Yes, great that Roshar can replicate that "better" transportation wherever they want it, rigth? For now chulls do all transportation. FTL is not needed on planet with radio. Medicine is advanced but not on level od industrial modern times. Not to mention sanitation with latrines when scadrial has sewers. Very advanced. With interplanetary invasion incoming, they would have to little trainers for that amont of volunteers that will volunteer. They will train them fast with basic as A-Steel/A-iron is the most time consuming. People already trained will be assassins, coverd by all of Roshar fancy toys with copper clouds. Yes, and drain them out of Stromlight, cracking - that's what it's all about They have guns, they need to fire up, and made unpenetrable cloud of bullets and shrapnels and explosives. Deterrence. Copper cloud, and pretending to be part of the camp. Or Wax duraluminum steel push, with steel ferring killing who needs to be killed. Not to the extend and scale of Allomancy. And doubt it would be that practical, as every emotion would require it's own pain-fabrial - and that takes a lot of space. No, that just wishful thinking. They can't do it now, they won't learn how to do it in 10 years. They, don't. Scorched earth policy. You know how Russia dealt with Napoleon? It would weaken them and that's good enough. yeah, just 2 small daggers with Raysium will definitely do a job, and help quickly made anti-light in mass production. Think rationally. The Stormfather is a spren bound to Roshar, not Cosmere. And Honor is shattered. It won't be easy for Bondsmith to use it's power out of Roshar. Doable in long run, doubt it will happen it 10 years. Good thing you're on Roshar ready to help and resolved all problems they faced. And many Sprens are finding new Radiants under Odium's controlled lands and are killed quite fast there. That might work. Dalinar had to constantly renew connection to be able to speak, and after some time and meeting them again, he had to do it again. I don't remember how it was precisely described. Hahahaha - no. Jasnah had a lot of time, and still is not on 5th, and can't soulcast organic matter well jak bread/jam well. No mastery of Bondsmithing in 10 years is gonna happened. HOUR??? Do you know how big the ocean is? They would have to WALK under the ocean! Storm, be realistic, not "radiants for the win". Crem turns to stone, because there is no more water, in the ocean there is a lot of water, it would take much longer to solidify - if at all. Yet they still the same, value honor and morality above all, Inksprens value logic and reason, and not getting killed and destroing Roshar above all. If before Maya's speech only one joined Radiants, now is too late for more. But civilians would. With some metal bars. Done, distraction. Scientist were most likely arrested, and it's easy to tell them - amnesty for technology, not to mention all other papers confiscated by police. They have it now. It would. Fireball of plasma would be created in vacuum of space. And in small boxed vacuum, box itself would carried energy for time, and later fireball. It would work the same with or without little box of vacuum. Light itself would vaporised everyone in kilometers of radius, and in tens of kilometers put everything that can be even skin, on fire. Light alone is deadly. Explosion are more than just fiery booms like in the movies. So humans are not responsible for genocide of 8 spiecies? They still are, reasons might change, but the result still remains the same. Willshaper's sprens will not bond humans, they say it, they giving chance back to Singers and they want to preserve their culture and people, far from war. Wishful thinking. Fused might won. Todium might rule. Roshar might be second Ashlyn. You don't know that! And they can't make chip sized gems - Wishful thinking again. Still no portal on Scadrial and it won't be there in 10 years. Wishful thinking. Copper clouds... They will run out of light quickly. Or NONE did it, and in 10 years it will be still impossible. Or just some guys with dynamite from secret organisation that don't want to be jailed after blowing up bunch of ships So why he did not test it with his buddy Ishar? But they need to know and learn it, and that takes time.

And here we go again - is there a limit on this forum for how big posts can get? We might hit it soon I said it's foolproof! Stop making it look foolish! Even if most coinshoters won't hit where it needs to be, some will and that means dead Radiant, even if spren breaks the bond, this will slowly reduce number of Radiants on Scadrial - and they cannot be that quickly reinforced, not every order has squires and new Radiants must be trained for months. And most important figures will be aready dead - they are irreplaceable. All necessary informations can bu published in newspapers for public, and Steris can organise "Hemalurgy with Death - lessons for beginners". Do you have to spike the spren to steal the bond? Source? I think you only need to spike the person - like Ishar was doing with Dalinar. And when you fight not with just whole army of the planet, but whole population of it, then it's undefeatable - like Spain by Napoleon, but with spikes. See? Foolproof! Ire had jars with Dor when they moved to capture Preservation. Was that unkeyed? Would he? Just because he was close, doesn't mean he would had it easier - Kaladin was close since OB. For Teft it might be something like "I will accept my past mistakes" or something acknowledging that he can make mistakes. He might knew the words, but didn't want to tell them - just like Kaladin in OB. That is not so much easier. As for now, every spren that bonded seams to be unaware of what the knight can do, until they do it. Just because Stormfather talks more, doesn't mean he will teach Dalinar something that he is not aware of. Kalak don't know anything about Bondsmiths, Ishar want to redo Oahtpact to be free of it. Both insane and Ishar might not return to his cooperative state ever again. People are less invested than bands, she does not soulcast fused however. For Jasnah it might be hard to do it, but for regular soulcasters it will be almost impossible. But no idea how he would act against someone in CR - there might be a way, emotional allomancy? Bands might be drained, or that's the fake one, suppressed - they might get refilled, and with whole Scadrial population, that will be done quickly (like 20 people at once filling it). That be usefull but what she did was enough to fight, and that's what most people needs. Metalborn teams can be quickly organised and trained as assassins and fighters with already experianced trainers like Wax and there is probably a lot of information on that left by Sazed. Squires needs to learn how to swordfight (which can take years of intense training) and use surges - Metalborn needs to learn how to shoot - many already do it. That's why I would say they equal. And to what you would use that reverse lashing in the air, clouds? Shardplates will take damage and heal using Stormlight - that's the whole point of it. Explosion near the Radiants is enough for pressure wave to break the crystals, and explosions will sent shrapnels with supersonic speed in all directions - they will remain threat for a long time (like the plane that flies through it and take damage - some will get hit in vital place and they will be taken down). Scadrian AA might already use that ammunition type, if not that's basically the only change they need, they have Wax grenades. So no problem as they need to just fill the skies with shrapnels and no windrunner will go through it. If they had them, there is too few Radiants to be everywhere. And even in OB in Kholinar battle, despite having Shardbeares, they send in regular soldiers to clear the corridor. There are at best 300-500 Radiants right know, most are from 2 orders. You can double it after 10 years, and that's still not that much. They wont cover everything. The only thing needed to break the spheres is explosion near it so pressure wave destroys it. And the glass can be break far away from explosion - like at the very end of TLM glass was being broken on the other side of the city. Radiants wouldn't maneuver well in close quarters WITH dynamite sticks thrown at them, as there is nothing to get cover behind, nowhere to excape, and small rooms would amplify the explosion - can the Radiant even survive explosion once? It would very quickly drain them out of Stormlight - and add to it leachers grenades that can be made in big numbers in advance... That's a death trap in every room waiting for them. Not to mention litteral traps that can be easily set as seen in AoL - Rosharians have no idea how to fight in modern urban era, on Roshar taking city walls means taking city, they don't fight door to door. Elendel don't have walls. That would be disastrous for Roshar and drain them of every reasourse they have - then Scadial does counteroffensive pushing them back and splittingthier forces and you have Stalingrad in Elendel. Do I need to remind you how it ended for 6th army? "but it could be very effective." - that's enough for electrum. I don't need them to be like in HoA, They need to only distract (not fight 1on1) Radiants and avoid thier attacks long enough for reinforcements to come - the very thing Kaladin unintentionally do in OB when fighting Amaram. In fight Mistborn might die, but in sneaking into the camp to kill/spike Bondsmiths and Elsecallers or others - he wins. That's the war. Not every battle is on the battlefield and involve swinging swords at each other, and if you can make a difference you take that opportunity. And to escape such Mistborn/Banduser might push emotional allomancy with duralluminum to paralyzed everyone - and then he disappears into the mists (both CR/PR). Was that his eyeslits or just the part of helmet that covers his face, that is movable? Even Shardplate illustrations from the books are showing eyeslits. And again Kaladin kill. Not many, but shrapnels, random bullets and ricochets will pose a danger and might hit eyslits when there is lot's of them. That's the point. For living plate intense, focused gunfire do the job. One piece of artillery can hit one spot at a time, hundreds or thousands will cover entire kilometers of field in constand bombardment that nobody can go through. Pressure waves alone from each explosions alone will push any Radiant onto the ground, and there he will slowly get draind off his Stormlight and killed. Not to mention psychological effect of that bombardment - just look how it affected soldiers in trenches in WW1 - Radiants despite glowing armor are still people and can be affected the same way as any others. Psychology in war is a huge factor - Scadrial have advantage here. Just because Scadial was not at war for past 350 years, doesn't mean they don't have any strategy, tactics, training and generals thinking about usage of modern weapons on modern battlefield. They have generals with medals so there is something going on in that military. And Roshar will make it easy for them, as they bring swords into the gunfight. They had training with guns and artillery, they quickly adopted and create AA in response to Malwish threat - they've been militarizing themselves for past 6 years. They know how to wage a war even if they did not been at war. Rebuilding factories can be done "relatively" quickly as it was offten done in WW2, but Radiants cannot do such operation on scale of carpet bombing, and factories can be easily guarded by AA and artillery, hidden far away from frontlines, too deep for Radiants to reach them - or they can be relocated with ease. Factories are not a problem, as Scadrial industrialization is huge, few Radiants won't do any difference. And even on Roshar they know how to catch Radiants/Shardplates with ropes and nets - they can easily do the same on Scadrial with any Radiant. Because Set had only one chance, and Elendel control and checked any boxes moved into the city so they could not transport it. Rockets had too short range to deliver it to Elendel, and they needed to destroy whole city, so fewer bombs would not make it if detonated in the same place. The more bombs they wanted to use, the more problems they would face. Yes, people can be teach that, but it would take them some time. So doable, but not on large scale. And the Singers on Shattered Plains want to get away from war, not jump straight into interplanetary war. So no "helpers", no Willshapers. In defense they would help, not on offense. It's kind of like first coalition meeting in OB - Let's attack Shinovar - but in Spaaaace That's right, that's what I've been talking all along. Few bombs each of thermonuclear scale however will be enough to wipe Roshar out of Scadrial alone, especially if aimed at ONLY entry point, Harmony's perpendicularity. It might even destroy perpendicularity. That's enough to stop any invasion and kill most of Radiants. How can you soulcast Harmonium? Also why would they try soulcasting bombs as they don't even recognize them and know what's that for - they need to know what it is to take actions, and Scadiral has huge advantage, as everything that Roshar would met will be unknown for them. Another big key factor. They have tactics, as explained before. Not used, but they have. Far superior to Rosharian tactics, so even if not perfected it would be like walk in the park. Soulcasters need Stormlight, which must be transported from Roshar - if that can be even done in 10 years, as right now it's impossible. Guess what, Roshar in no way has any logistic capabilities for supporting large scale invasion of another planet from CR. Their supply and reinforcement chain will be slow, long, sparse, with little cargo space, stretched so much that it won't be sustainable. It would take weeks/months to transport single cargo vessel with most of Stormlight in crystals disappearing and giving little supllies to Army of millions starving for food,waiting for weapons, armors, ammunitions and reinforcements. Just crazy and impossible. And they cannot take any supplies from Scadrial land. In all of that discussion we didn't even talk about foreign diseases that would more than decimated all of Roshar forces on Scadrial - simple cold was deadly for Purelakers, on Scadrial all Stormlight would be draind for healing just fraction of invasion force from deadly local illnesses - and it won't even treat whole army. You gonna have situation like Napoleon in Russia combined with Native Americans first contact with Europeans. Scadrial need to just couth in direction of Roshar and it's over. All of that Rosharian tech is already on Scadrial - radios, pomps, airships, grenades, heaters etc - all fueled by electricity not Stormlight. One leacher grenade on Rosharian airship and it's going down. Rosharian airship is one time thing - as it takes thousands of crystals, hundreds of people and two separate locations to make even ONE flight. Scadrial ships can get airborn with ease - even if Elendel have only few of them. Let's admitt it, Roshar won't make firearms, nor copy it in that scenario. They are far to complicated, require far to many small moving parts, precise metalworking and gunpowder. Not gonna happened. And putting small nuclear bombs in your gun is THE wors idea I've ever heard of - it's gonna blown off your gun, your hand, your head, your body, and everyone in 100 meter radius. It would be hard for Roshar to make even gun-like-slingshots in active invasion on other planet, when your supplies for whole army comes in one ship every week. Not to mention large scale production. Scadrial already have a lot of aluminum, that's enough for sticks, bullets and boxes (droped from skies on Elsecaller - who likes to put boxes on Bands? Uno reverse card! ). And didn't TLA endend with epilogue 2 years after Wayne death? That's a long time to progress, Like Roshar have. It's not about switching swords for guns, it's about changing every aspect of society. Industry, government, education, agriculture, mining, transport, processing etc list goes on. Roshar is very much hundreds years behind Scadrial, with few fancy toys. Right now they cannot industrialize on large scale. Wow, therunner, I'm done with you after storm knows how long. So good to finally talk about tactics, strategy and logistic not flying men again. Not really, Preservation is only needed on the very first moment of becoming metalborn, then they can use it wherever they want as it not Scadiral's metal that are important, it's just any metal. Radiant's are strictly bound to Stormlight, which is strictly bound to Roshar. Yes, that's fair, but as I answer therunner - not every battle is fight on the battlefield. Killing someone in his sleep is as victorious as in the middle of fight. More details somwhere above, after short scroling - I hope it's short. I doubt there would be more than few 5th ideal Radiants of any order per generation. It's just very hard to reach it. So it's not like they don't want to reach 5th ideal, it's hard for them to get prepared for next ideal, as it's means new understanding of law and how to enforced it. And that's Nale's thing to, following the law, if someone is ready for next ideal, he won't stop them from reaching it. So optimistic. Getting rid of your demons is so easy? We now have therapists, and we all now how mental care looks on Roshar. So no, Hoid might be the one, but he had millennia to get there. Just because Brandon said it is possible it deosn't mean it's gonna happen and be as common as chull. Not to mention sprens must first find that person, and that might be troublesome. Dalinar had to constantly reconnect and touch Azir's people to keep the bond to their language. Dalinar is strongly connected to Kaladin, and Kaladin to Dalinar and Stromfather, and it was happening during storm - I doubt he could make the same thing with someone else, that he doesn't. Touching is a big thing for connection manipulation, even Ishar is doing it - it might be hard for Dalinar to connect spren with Scadrial if it means touching Scadrial in some way. He's gonna touch spren and then walk for weeks with thread in his hand? That's gonna look funny for sure. That's like a child, and knows nothing? Not really helpful, even if with little training on how to remade Oathpact, not on waging interplanetary wars from CR. But the bottom of the ocean is not made of stone, but layers of sediment, and lifeforms. So no. That's not gonna work - and again, if that was so easy than fused would already recover it. Not to mention having Stormlight for weeks of suffocation and being crushed by pressure - nope. Be realistic. Except Americans are not like sprens - everlasting, almost unchanging spirits, characterized with unique ideas for each species. So you can tell all about whole species just from word and behaviour of one specimen - because they are sprens. 1. Themselves, sense of duty for their planet and nation. Or a man with gun among them, or in basement, or bomb that would explode when they move. But more likely the first option. 2. CR doesn't scale as PR. And just concetration of souls can be faulty - you are gonna look at that huge incoming concetration of souls from the north, and you missed few people sneaking on you from south - it turns out that no people were coming from north, but weird, squishy, four-legged and hairy creatures that goes "beee" (sheeps) - but your gonna be dead with aluminum spike through your heart, and decapitated. Stormlight can be suck out, stormlight can be more important on frontlines, even more, when your logistic supply lines have so little ships comming from roshar after weeks of travel. Coal is fuel of industry. It was said, that Roshar is too young to have fossils, and coal is just that, plant fossils. Oil is the same. So no coal/oil on Roshar. And if Rosharians wants to have industry on conquered parts of Scadiral it would be even harder for them to fuel it. And the coal is needed for metalworks and big furnaces to fuel industry - that's what I meant. Leaching grenades. And the seekers won't be running towards Radiants screeming "I've found one" but staying behind and telling (radio are a thing) others what they have felt - Radiants might be fully unaware that seekers even exists. Might, or that's might be the max weight that ship can carry normally. As the bagpacks in BoM on little ship were just place there. He literally figured it out that rocket will be on Shaw, that was looking like construction side from outside (pointed out in the books), because notes had informations about rockets and range - so he figure it out that launching it from higher position would result in bigger range. He did not see it, he couldn't. You just don't understand, you don't have to! First you do that, in pressure chamber in the vacuum, or with dry air conditions and place everything where it should be placed and then you close the box. That's it. It is sealed off and ready to make boom. No exposure to air is required to make it explode. Just box. Sealed off. And then you press the button, and you've become death, the destroyer of the worlds. There is and will be ONE Elsecaller, and Willshapers don't want to be close to any war, especially interplanetary one, as they just want to sing in peace. As they don't have big manufacturing power, they do what's needed the most - anti-voidlight - and use it to kill Fused and Voidsprens, they don't play with big explosives, that DON'T kill Fused and Voidsprens. As I said, Roshar's explosive capabilities are small, simmilar to Scadrial's, but with delicate vessels, hand delivery, and hand, slow ignition - not ideal. It is a wavelength, yet making it is not just following the wavelength. They need to precisely hear what they doing, and any mistake will slow them down, or forced to make it again. Any impurities in plate will make it not repeatable. My point is, it's gonna take humans some time to copy that, and manufactoring anti-light will be slow and in small quantities. Uff, another one bites the dust. That's a long reply. Don't forget that Roshar's high command is composed mostly of men that can't read. When invading foreign planet, fulled with things that you never seen before, weapons, surges and tactics alien to anyone on Roshar the ability to express himself in clear manner, and to give written commands understood by everyone might be quite usefull. Thanks, I'm trying. However my opinion is that no offworld invasion from CR can be successful for any side, as there is only one way in, no logistics in place, no supplies, no vessels, basically no anything that would support invasion on that scale, that far away, through alien land in CR - somewhere in previous posts I talk about that. But let's go with "what if somehow they made it into PR". That's the biggest problems with Roshar inviding Scadrial. And Scadrial's perpendicularity is located not in the South, but North (?), in Pits of Eltania guarded by Koloss (one of Jak's adventure), which is even worst. Done for, not, it's taking me longer and longer to reply. But that's fun.

Oh boy, here we go again, writing a long boy That's not how allomancy work, there is a difference between allomancy and surges - Radiants can't do anything without their sprens, Bondsmiths might (or not, we don't know) works the same. Ask Brandon, not me, he decided that Kelsier would win, so we must go with it. Kelsier is goon in fighting against superior opponent (inquisitor) and surviving. It's his main thing. I'm gonna give you a RAFO card. We don't know what he does, why he does that and what he would tell Jasnah. After all, he would watch Roshar burn if it means getting what he wants That just wrong. Did Kaladin's 2nd oath no longer mattered when he sworn 3rd? It is still valid to some extend. They don't work like that, they want to progress as that would made them more usefull. Stop making illogical claims, just to support your arguments. "someone who's emotionally ready to swear all five on the spot?" That doesn't mean they don't struggle in the past and overcome it already... But that would be rare if it ever happened. Book 5 is before W&W but we don't know WHAT will happen! So I'm saying let's take all that already have happened and extrapolate it into future remaining logical and cautious. Undoing duel does not waste everything, it creates new opportunities. I believe that SA5 will end with Dalinar on Tdium side, Stormfather dead, no more Stormlight, Roshar completely devastated by endless rain, which would destroy Kharbrant, which would mean Tdium broke his promise with himself, seriously wounding himself, that leave him unable to act. That just means there is many possibilities of how things may go, not just the one you like. Let's make reasonable assumptions that would melt the best and the worst scenario in the middle. So Dalinar is alive, he is better but he is not an master, and cannot do stuff like moving Oathgates, connecting Stormlight to Scadrial or Stormfather and sprens to Scadrial etc - or it has big limitations. I was saying if Roshar would invide Scadrial through Harmony's perpendicularity, they would have problems with capturing it, and Scadrial has only one perpendicularity. 1 which is very hard, 2 yup, 3. that deosn't mean The Sibling can be moved, it is a different spren. Moving Shardblade out of Roshar is very hard. And yes, I know you will say "connectios" but they might not get that, they might not learn that, they might have problems with that. Old radiants did not do it, despite having thousands of years. If he know how. Good luck locating them and geting to them. We can lost multiple planes in the ocean, and you think they can find some small rocks? The Thrill would not be thrown into the ocean if it was that easy to get it out. They will work on making perfect gems, but I doubt they will make them in huge numbers. No, we know how entire species is thinking based on two Inksprens as they told us how rest of them is thinking. Yes, you do, Scadrial vs Roshar, if only all of Scadiral were Metalborn, and all of Roshar were Radients, you would be correct, as that's all we talking about. Civilians forced to stand next to window = threat - your logic. On Roshar there are no houses in CR. Also good luck making working modern weapons without coal - is it on Roshar? It was said it's to young to make fossils by Zahel. You have leaching grenades now. No need for touching. And Lightweavers might be found by skilful seeker - as they can even sence feruchemy. For the ship stability, speed and rules. Here is better example - supplies does not have any medalions on them, and they weight a lot. The papers that Wax recovered from van and used them to locate the rocket? Yes, that's the one. And probably more captured by the police afterward. Please, you are smarter than this. You can SCALE DOWN the bombs, SEAL them off from the elements, and make automatic ignition. Or even radio-button. I don't believe I had to explain this... One person can deliver it from CR, not that much of a delivery system. Anti-light is more powerfull. Common on Roshar, not on Scadrial, not when you are on the mission, in the middle of the fight etc. And preserving anti-light is a good idea when you killing fused and your production is small and limited. You need to hear it first, to make it, it might take time as slight differences would make the plate not work, but yes. yeaah, no. just nope. Soulcasted gunpowder - very easy. Guns has to many moving parts to soulcast them easily. Not to mention how limited that would be, and only few could do it. Just no. And just because you have them doesn't mean you can use them. I know you are Roshar-fanboy, but hold your chulls. Because army could not get on the other side... Surprisingly in real full helmets, they tent to be very small. That's the point! Morale is winning the battle! If you can defeat the enemy befere there is a battle, you won! That is really great point, and huge advantage for Scadrial. Tbf, when I saw just just the same arguments over and over on the first page, I skipped that to now - Sorry Frustration Haha, that would make a mess for sure Gunpowder is easy But you need to catch up to the guns and understand them, that's too big of an leap for Roshar. Too big. I'm barely catching up with your responses - I'm too slow. But still we're not discussing proper tactics, soldiers, weapons and logistics - that's what wins the wars. Not flying glowing man. Despite Napoleon's brilliance, he was still loosing battles in places he was absent in 1813 (that was whole coalition tactic) - Radiants won't win battles where they are absent. Here is another thing that we ALL ignoring, that is Metal Art - Hemalurgy. Give all Scadrials hemalurigic spikes to use. EVERYONE! To steal Radiant bond with sprens. Coinshoters shooting spikes into binding points, Steel Ferrits spiking Bondsmiths (and your favourite Elsecallers) and stealing bonds, wounded man stealing bonds from Edgedancers that tries to help them. Just everyone has a spike to use. However you can imagine it, just do it. Roshar has no idea about that art, and Scadrial has some practice in recent years already. You just have to have intention, and know where to put it. And before you see, Scadiral will have own Radiants fighting against Roshar. Just brilliant, foolproof.

They can or cannot, but close is not the same as figuring it out. And Dor was already being distributed on Scadrial's CR in Secret History. Teft had it easy? Strongly disagree, I would said he had it as hard as Kaladin to reach 3rd ideal. That struggle is very subjective and someone might think Teft has easy time, yet it only depended on Teft perception, and for him it was very hard. Many Radiants would face similar subjectivly hard struggle to reach 4th ideal. Yes, Stormfather, aka "I didn't know you can do it before you did it" is gonna be a lot of help. Sibling works the same. Kalak and Ishar are unreliable and unstable, and might not want to share that knowledge - Ash was a whole year with them and they did not get that much. Yes, there are no Fullborn, and there will be no more (I started it only as what if), and there is only one Elsecaller. Fair to the Bands of Mourning, still that is not one metalmind but 16 combined, and fully charged wich a lot of Investiture, and that might be much more troublesome than regular single metalmind. Possible but very hard. And before one Elsecaller would do it, she would be killed by ultrasonic "medalion Fullborn". Good calculations. Still is it that hard to take care of your skills? Marasi having "useless" metal without training was able to masterfully use it even in AoL. And teams of metalborn are present in era 1, and to some lesser extend era 2 - A-Iron and A-Steel team in AoL, TLM has copied Wax and Wayne and Marasi was suprised that Bilming police has no anti-allomancer team, suggesting that Elendel now has a teams of allomancers etc. They are mention sometime, but not fucused on. Most of the metalborns would be at similar level of skill as squires of Radiants. Still long way to go, yet deadly - like Vin killing her first Mistborn (kind of, not really, but you get the point). It will be hard. But Wax had grenade launchers that filled the air with shrapnels, that will do the job. You don't need to hit them, but to fill the air with bullets and shrapnels to drain them out of Stormlight. That is very doable. Radiants do have advantage, but regular rosharians don't, and they will be doing 95% of fighting in city of size of Elendel (look at scale on map). Scadrials knows the terrain, all little paths they can take, hideouts, canals, houses, towers etc. And they had guns, for rosharians to do any damage they had to be close, they won't pass positions and barricaded roads, filled with guns and machine gun nests, they won't get even close. Not to mention artillery support. Explosives will deal with Radiants, as they won't be able to sustain healing on that scale for long, most won't be be able to manoeuvre well in close quarters and their crystals holding Stormlight would get broken by explosives, and even single bullet. With electrum - no way, he sees he's own future and reacts to it instinctively. And in the battle between Kaladin vs Kelsier per WoB, Kelsier would win - and they both are the best of the best. Electrum misting would be hard to deal with as long as he have electrum, he would be keeping Radiants busy with him, giving time for reinforcements to arrive and overwhelm them - that's the way. Again, battle at the end of HoA, regular dudes with atium defeated thousends of Koloses, electrum would work similarly, as we see in era 1. No, most were capture and traped in Marasi's time bubble. Many others would most likely be capture by the police. And they already has whole bunch of documents sot they can replicate all of that fast. Navani will share, but how many rosharians will be able to hear the rhythms that well? That's the bottleneck. The big bomb was too big to pack on the rocket. However they can make it much smaller, still very powerful, and fit it in the rocket. Very ideal, as you now have tactical nukes. Plate HAS eyeslits! Jasnah plate in RoW was the living plate, so it could adjust, but the regular dead one has eyeslits - Kaladin killed Helaran through eyeslits. Adolin and Dalinar rushing towards archers always cover their eyeslits. So guns would very much help here. And many opponents that Wax encounter were very skilled at aiming. Random bullet is as deadly as aimed one. Artillery do not shoots at one location but on the entire fields, square kilometers of land, making it hard to get on the other side. You can heal as long as you have Stormlight, with cracked crystal - no healing. That's the problem, but they still have some leftover Trellium, more than 5 spikes, possibly more in some storages of Set. But few bombs would still be extreamly destructive. You all forgets about differences in tactics between Roshar and Scadrial. Modern guns and artillery change everything. While Roshar has army marching in one line to engage in swordfights, Scadrial has probably the same tactics as used in Franco-Prussian war or even WW1 with introduction of ariships. Rosharians would be sitting ducks for any machine gun and artillery. Scadrial tactics is defence in depth - layers of lines, fortified positions, machine gun nest, artillery postions of different range - all spaning tens of kilometers in length and depth with position for reatret etc. That sheer difference in tactics would be a key factor in all engagements, and without modern weapons, rosharians would not be able to addapt. Radiants cannot be everywhere, they cannod hold positions for long, Stormlight will get exhausted. Most of the fighting is done by footman, not Radiant - see in Jasnah PoV in battle. Radiants alone will not hold the ground - offten said in SA. It's like sending unsupported tanks in the middle of enemy positions - they will do damage, but single rocket from man-pad and tank is done. It does not look very movable to be fair. And getting sprens out of Roshar would be hard. 10 years is to short to learn all of that, even if they knew about it being possible - they don't. Aimians did not move Oathgate, they cover it on top. And can Sibling be moved?? Source? Which might be dead, traped or hidden - book 5 not 4 we don't know, better not include. Ehh, Because Inksprens seams holding much bigger grudge without feeling responsibility like Honorsprens, and now it's even worse! Inksprens believe that it's not only their life at stake, but whole of Roshar - they are much more logical than Honorsprens, so they will follow their logic. They will not join, as in their mind it would mean destruction of Roshar. What progresing Ideal has to do with following Nale? Nale didn't stoped Szeth's training despite being enemies, why would he prevent his allies from reaching 4th ideal? That stupid. About Kaladin - it was somewhere, either related to RoW or OB (when he almost sworns 4th oath), maybe in addnotations. Can't find WoB, but Brandon was talking about Kaladin reaching 4th idael - either he says it and reach 5th one, or he would be stuck on 3th forever. All Radiants has their own struggle which in their mind might be as hard as Kaladin's and that's the only thing that matters. How do you know that the duel would even take place in 10 days, and that's not the whole plan of Todium? How do you know that Dalinar would be one to fight, that he would use his Bondsmith's skills in that fight? All I got, was that his training with Ishar was going to be to remade Oathpact, not about duel. That training might be after duel, or not at all, if Dalinar got killed. Book 5, not 4. Time bubbles. Still with a little of steel spead, time bubbles, grenades, and leaching and coinshooting, all soulcasters would get killed before they even realized what they are dealing with. And that is important. Roshar has bigger advantage on homegroud, that I said before. But that perpendicularity is guarded by Koloses, and it would be the same chokepoint for Roshar if they capture it - so easy to cut off, so easy to focus all your forces on that position, and blast them into oblivion, before more reinforcement came. Or send H-T bomb there and do nothing, work as well. The Well most likely not, but harmony could change something and move both perpendicularities somewhere else. But still, I agree. Easy, metalmind-ships for the win. Oh, good luck with that, another genocide of sapient species? Why not, lets kill everything with gems before Scadrials even arrives. And they don't know how to make perfect gemstones still, so they might not made them in big numbers within 10 years. They won't be able to distinguished civilians from soldiers, and Rosharians are not used to fight house to house. And as I said, not every Rosharian is Radiant. That's the whole point of that discussion, to pitch Roshar vs Scadrial, not Radiants vs Metalborn. Seekers... and Leachers. Anything more? Didn't in TLM Wax and Max boarded ship before Max get his amulet? And logicly, one person weight is too little compare to the whole weight of big ship, so there is a little margin there for only few people. Set needed to destroy all of Elendel (5mil people) from safe distance - we don't need that, smaller bombs would be more useful on tactical level in war than big strategic one like that. She capture most of them in the bubble, not to mention many others outside that room in caves, now all arrested. Autonomy give them that knowledge but it didn't disappear, after she's gone... And it's on capured papers. You know you can seal it off? I would give Roshar the same amount of explosive power as Scadrial after 10 years (they might not go this way, as anti-light might be to valuable for killing fuesed and sprens). But that just raw power, no delivery systems. Hitting that perfect note is quite important and that might take time for everyone else. Because the book is still not published yet? You don't know what will happen so everything is equally as probable. Todium might win and kill everyone. Or asteroid might hit Roshar and kill everyone. So let's talk on what in book 4, and carefully predict future base on that we know, and not that we don't know. Rain of bullets and shrapnels on 1km long field is as dangerous for Plates as precise shots - and most of them won't have plate, and most of Rosharians are not Radiants. Or like Napoleon invading Spain and Russia, best gennerals, tactics, soldiers and cannons won't do much when they struggle for supplies and logistics. Discussion of an possible alien invasion through CR is futile as that is exactly what happened in TLM. And that invasion was stoped by Marasi with barely any support, intel, manpower and resources - it is nothing compared to planet wide mobilisation. And we don't even know, what man of gold and red are even capable of. We can assume they would easily deal with any misting and ferring on their way. But it wasn't metal arts that Autonomy consider a threat but technological progress alone! Which is very telling. That could mean that Scadrial now possessed technology that can face any Investiture based abilities. And as we could all see, stoping invasion from CR, that had support of inside and powerful organisation, in undisclosed localisation, that had created their own way from CR to PR, with unknown abilities and weaponry, that was in work for more than 6-10 years, was prevented basically by ONE person (with support of an team) and ONE grenade. It was that simple despite the odds. Now mobilized whole, united Basin and make them face the same threat with all resources, manpower, weaponry and technology, and invasion from CR is just impossible. You can add to this Malwish Consortium (and their enemies) and it's even more impossible than ever. Invasion from CR is just not gonna work anytime soon. Radiants on Roshar do not fight on battlefields alone, they have thousands of soldiers fighting as well, without them, Radiants would be quickly overwhelmed. And Scadrial has better tech, tactics, weapons, and logistics. Shard won't hold the ground. That's the whole point of that discussion, to pitch Roshar vs Scadrial, not Radiants vs Metalborn - and that is what we currently all doing, discussing who is better, Radiants or Metalborn (Radiants). So how about focusing less on few hundreds of Radiants/Metalborn aka tanks that sometimes can fly, and more on hundreds of thousands of regular soldiers?

You are talking about moving them, and both sprens and Sibling are not willing to share informations without asking. Moving or creating Oathgates in 10 years is just too much, as we don't even know what it took to made them in the first place - thay might be incredibly difficult to made. They have bigger problems now, to worry about something they don't need. And again - Ghostbloods don't figure it out, they won't as well. 1 have joined Radiants, when all he believed was that Jasnah might/will kill him, now all Inksprens knows that ancient sprens have chosen death to save Roshar, as Radiant powers might destroy the planet. I'm pretty convinced, that all undecided are now fully convinced not to help Radiants, as this is now much bigger threat. No Elsecallers for you. They all had armor at Feverstone Keep, they were 4+ ideal. And it is very hard to get there, Kaladin struggles a lot, faced suicidal thoughts all time, and deep dark depression. It was very hard for him to overcome all of this to reach 4th ideal, and as per WOB, if Kaladin did not make it in RoW, he would never become 4th Ideal Windrunner. It's fair to assume, with words from Skybreaker, that 4th Ideal is rare. I'm sorry, what? You compare Ishar that had like 7000 years to master surges, to Dalinar, that is doing it for barely a year, and will have another 10 years IF he survives 5th book. Not a good comparison. Connection is the most powerful force of Cosmere, and very little is known about it even for us, it will be very hard for Dalinar to master it, as all he does now is just a hunch, rather than skill. Nightwatcher is not bonded, and Stormfather is omnipresent on Roshar, not Scadrial. Which is very important distinction. Bondsmithing is very likely not to work outside Roshar system. No doubt on that, but I was talking on using scouts, they can use mistings that would burn metals like morse code in CR, that would be recieved by Seekers in PR. Just enough to get information so they can act. But Roshar will be in control of Scadrial CR, even without Radiants. Fair, but they using it from PR to look into CR, not the other way around. Outside battle of Thaylen field, when they do not use any of that information, no such actions were made. No Elsecallers for you, and they would not be able to kill Fullborn, he could move faster than speed of sound, think faster than supecomputers, and easily locate and kill any Elsecaller before they ever see what is happening. Noone is just able to compete with Fullborn. Bands are extremely full of Investiture, it's the most invested thing apart from Nightblood ever made. It will be impossible to soulcast that. And Fullborn move faster than you can create any aluminum box, and he could easily break it with compound strength alone. Not to mention effects of emotional allomancy, that would paralyzed anyone, which we see in TLM. Yes they, are, but they are surprisingly equal and fair to both sides, making them a perfect tool for us to compare Roshar and Scadrial. I did not try to suggest that there would be a fair pitch battle on empty field. That's the point. Logistics and supplies wins the war. Both invasion scenario will fail shortly, as neither Roshar, no Scadrial can streach their logistics to reach others planet. They do not even have vessels to transport army on the other planet in large numbers, not to mention constant shipping of the supplies through CR, that would require monumental effort and manpower. It's like Napoleon or Hitler invading Britain - didn't happen as they couldn't make it through the canal. Any invasion even with innitial gains would quickly stop due to lack of supplies and then they would have to retreat because of resistance even of weaker forces. That's why I compere them on pitch battle conditions, as all of those troubles are removed from equation. No invasion can happen. Location of Harmony's perpendicularity was revealed in newspaper, not really hidden. And can't there still be Ruin's and Preservation's perpendicularities hanging aroung? And they could just take boats, planks, anything that floats and ship them to CR, not a big problem, we don't know how CR of Scadrial is looking now, but Kandra have to boats, so not a problem. And there is land in CR. Yes, because they did not do it before, and that revelations are gamechanger so they will not be willing to do it after. Also there were only 2000 Honorsprens in total, and they were the most numerous order, so I doubt any other sprens could have bigger numbers than Honorsprens, now all decimated by Recreance. And not all orders were numerous, some might be very few in numbers, so fewer sprens to bond, therefore low population is fair to assume for Inksprens, few hundreds at best. I would say there are more metalborns in total compared to Radiants, and metalborns had their whole life to train, and had best teachers with traditions of more than 1300 years. Metalborns are much more skilled and able to work in effective groups compared to Radiants, who just got their powers, and any new replacemant of dead one, will be completely untrained. Still Radiants had better combat related skills, including healing. But metalborns and regular Scadrials knows how to deal with someone with healing abilities - shot him until he runs out of healing. Regular full metalmind is not the same as Bands of Mourning... The difference is staggering, both Wax and Marasi were leaking mists when they used it. They are too much invested to be affected by soulcaster or Radiant. They have AA guns, and stealrunners and pewter-runners. Maybe not that fast but still highly mobile. And you just need to shot them out of skies, as they have very limited amounts of Stormlight, IF they can transport it to Scadrial, which is not likely. Roshar forces don't have stockpile of perfect crystals, so it might be possible that all of the Stormlight stored in regular crystals would simply vanished before reaching Scadrial. Modern siege is not the same as medieval one. They would need to take the city streat by streat, building by building, flat by flat - and in that fight, Scadrial has big advantage in that case, and knows it terrain too well. Assuming they would use them, even now on Roshar, they used it once in Kholinar. And spies can be caught and mislead. No, that works, only on Roshar, only in Highstorms, only for very selected few. It's not comparable to Ferrings. Seeing future is not a game changer? Vin would strongly disagree, Vorinism would strongly disagree. Everyone would, They are invincible, as seen in finale of HoA. And they also have Atium now, no Radiant could face someone with Atium, no matter of healing. Small one yes, big one can, but that is a problem for large number of people on board. Still Elendel has few of them, not to mention potentialy hundreds in hands of Malwish. I'm tend to send only Elendel and Urithiru coalition against one another, as we don't really know what Malwish or Fused are fully capable of and what technology they possessed. And uniting them is not possible in even alien invasion scenario, as we saw with Malwish inTLM. Set did it, they made multiple successful tests, all of that is in Wax hands now, including scientist. They can make it easily work on Roshar. Anit-light was only used in very small amounts, crystals worth of it, as it is very hard, slow, and limited process to produce even small amounts of it. Only Navani is capable to do it from Urithiru. And it was mostly used in a daggers, rather than as a bomb, they would need to figure out whole manufacturing/holding/delivery/igniting/aiming systems and more to produce capable weapons. Scadrial has it now. Usable. Or 10 year of being dead. Still 10 years is not a long time, as in 1 year Dalinar barely made any progress. We cannot also speculate if Ishar will teach him as that's outside of currently published books. So we can as well said Ishar tripped, fell and broke his neck. That death stick is useless when your enemy is ranged one with artillery. Living plates would be a very rare sight, and could be destroy under heavy fire, dead plates - aim at the eyeholes, and they are dead, easy with modern and precise guns. That whole disscussion turned into "my side would wn" vs "my side would win" with stretched arguments without ever reaching sensible conclusion. I think that Frustration severely overestimates abilities, progress, and numbers of Roshar in that conflict. I'm of opinion that no invasion could take place, because of logistic, supplies and organized defence issues, that would not be overcome, especially when they would face enemy that they don't know anything about, on terrain they don't know, with tactics not familiar to them. On more fair ground, no invasion, just battle, even on large scale, ignoring all problems, Roshar would be winning side, but it won't be easy.