alder24

Yes but the name is still SP 3 spoiler

The Shard that wants to survive could be one of those from RoW. Invention is tricky as Harmony wasn't able to reestablish contact with them.

Moons are small, stars are big. So massively huge. Stars changing orbits would drag planets behind destabilizing the entire system. If those stars were made billions of years ago, they would be in a stable orbit, with one star gone long ago. But as I said, magic fixes this problem. The 0.5 radius of Earth is bigger than Mercury, and it is a planet, not a dwarf planet (usually really small planets like Ceres or Pluto). The size of the astronomical body is only one of 3 factors defining a planet - it has to be big enough to be round, it has to orbit directly around its star and it has to dominate on its orbit and clear up other objects from it (like asteroids or smaller planets). Binary planets are fine on all three. In real life I think you didn't but this fixes it. Microscopic plankton is the food source of whales. It could possibly be a food source for your most gigantic animals, because the larger they are, the less maneuverable they become, and they can't hunt well. Lower gravity helps them, but plankton still is the best source of food for them. And I think they need iron to grow, so your oceans should be full of them. It still can be. You won't see deep into water, only some limited distance around you. It can look marvelous on the surface of the ocean as bacteria and plankton can glow too, and it can be visible from land, giving you the impression of the entire ocean glowing. Salt or fresh? They can be still called seas. Hmm, possible. Venus lacks plate tectonics but is tectonically active, it is periodically flooded by magma which replaces its entire surface every 100 mil years. If there is an active core heat must have a way out, volcanoes should be present. Or Invention did something less catastrophic. Light. There must be a light source. It might be good to make Invention's god metal glow intensely (It can glow only in dark conditions) so it can support ecosystems growing around it. No matter how sensitive your eyes are, in caves, where no sunlight reaches, you can't see at all. All those deep caves should be mostly devoid of life. Echolocation would work, eyes won't. You must have a light source, or you have animals like olms that stay completely motionless for years to conserve energy. Depending on the order. Some just doesn't care. But I like it! That's fun but dangerous as you can accidentally set your house aflame. No I mean end-positive. But can be called end-neutral, depending on the angle you're looking at. The same amount of investiture exists in a closed system so it can be end-neutral. But it worries me that metal isn't used up - you have a perpetuum mobile. That's weird. Why? A cube twice as big would still require 2 times more energy to heat up to 70 *C: Q = m•C•ΔT Oh that's why. Ok I see it now. You deserve it, this is fun Nothing on Whimsy and mass. My mind used up today's allocation of invention.

Oh. Your rest should be used up alongside tapped one. It just makes more sense to me.

Yes, but their investiture present on another planet can be use to create Avatars, which is meaningful.

Ok that's more likely, but a Vessel is the mind of a Shard, and if they split themself into numerous people, who aren't Shard and Vessel anymore, they would drop behind power of their Shard, raw Vesselless power, which won't just politely stick around and wait for its Vessel to return - it would do some dangerous things. Ambition wasn't mentioned until UB, but we knew for a long time that a Shard was Shattered near Threnody, and 4 new names were just dropped in RoW. 15th Shard also wasn't mentioned anywhere until recently. I don't think this is a valid argument. Cosmere is vast, there are hundreds of planets for Shards to settle. They arrived on Roshar in ancient times, were one of the Silver Kingdoms and were fighting in numerous Desolations, including the True Desolation. If they were simply running away, they would disappear as soon as new Desolation had started. But I now see you address those problems yourself. Yes, they've conquered several nations ever as far as around Pure Lake. To add a bit, there is/was a Shard that didn't inhabit any planet - Iriali might fit this as that Shard might not be invested on any world, and people traveling around shouldn't count.

You articulated it well, and you address the issue with Adonalsium being the one. I don't think this is true - for a Shard, who has near infinite power, it's almost impossible to split himself into so many Splinters and stop existing as a one.

Wait, do you actually want another Shallan chapter? What a change from: But I get it. I felt the same. (I'll bet there will be a moment whey you say "I want another Dalinar flashback" ) She didn't know she could heal drunkenness with Stormlight. She likely wanted to get slightly drunk by drinking strong alcohol (because that's what a tough woman like Veil would want to drink) but she underestimated the strength of her drink. She wanted to be drunk because she hoped that some people would treat her as drunk and will tell her more information than they would be willing to tell somebody that isn't drunk (as people wouldn't trust her if she wasn't drunk, but will say anything to pick up a drunk woman, which Shallan didn't thought through). So that's why it's complicated, and explaining it to Pattern, who doesn't understand basic human interaction would be time consuming and mentally exhausting. That's a good point. I've never thought about it. I guess she started to heal her wound as soon as the knife entered her body to ease up the pain. Or was it because Shallan was playing as Veil at that time and Veil can handle a little pain. But Radiants still feel pain when injured.

So why do they sleep then? They sleep because their body is gathering energy and resting. That's what they're getting back when tapping - energy and rest. Sleeping changes that baseline you're talking about. If they weren't in coma/sleep when storing in bronze, then what you're talking about would be true. But because sleep is involved then they always have the same increased baseline available to them to store and that's what they're storing. I think storing it doesn't make you rested after you wake up, because most of the wakefulness you got during that sleep was stored in metalmind. I think you would return to the original state, or at least somewhat close to it, depending how long you were sleeping. Because you store what you get from sleep, not what you had in your body before sleeping (but your body would still need to function and use energy and rest for that). If you were tired before storing, you might be even more tired after. But that also might depend on the amount of wakefulness you're storing. If you're storing 80-90% of it, then you would get tired through that, as your body is using more than what's getting (10-20%), but around 50% then you would wake up as rested as you were before sleep, if you store fewer than that, then that sleep will be beneficial to your body as it can now store that wakefulness for when you wake up. Of course that's assuming a bronzemind doesn't work like a coppermind and stores everything you got from sleep, which might be the case.

Yes, they certainly would, I think more than one. Both Kelsier and Mare are good names, Dox or Clubs too or naming them after any member of their group. Elend might want Tindwyl, as there were no other meaningful people in his life. Vin might choose Reen, despite his abusive behavior, he had never betrayed her and died protecting her, which was important to her.

Luck isn't really a Cosmere thing. And there is already an Aviar that "makes you lucky" - the one showing you the future. It uses Fortune, which is a Cosmere phenomena, responsible for things you may call luck and future visions.

I find him much closer to Christ. Jesus had nail wounds on his hands, Kelsier had scars on them, Jesus showed his wounds to his apostles in a specific pose, Kelsier showed his to Skaa, Jesus is Savior, Kelsier is Survivor, Jesus was teaching people, Kelsier too, both died and came back, both are main figures in their respective religions, the symbol of Christianity is the Cross that Jesus died on, the symbol of Survivorism is the spear that pierced him, Kelsier even performed few "miracles" and blessed kids given to him. It just goes on and on.

Yes and no. They are bound to the whole star system, and therefore they can invest multiple planets in the same star system - both Cultivation and Odium did that. But if you ask if they can invest multiple different star systems then the answer is no. They are bound to the system they've invested first and can't leave it without either separating that investiture from themself to leave it behind or ripping it off the system. They can't invest multiple worlds. But, there is a method. Investiture of every Shard exists anywhere in Cosmere, but they're aren't aware of that. If they expand their mind a bit and realize there is their investiture on a different planet, now they can tweak it and use it as they wish. They can't invest in that world more than it's already invested, but now they have control over investiture of theirs that already was there. But the amount of investiture in that world is much smaller than what they have in their primary world that they've invested. Huge WoB, I've bolded important parts of it:

I don't want this topic to be derailed into Stormfather vs Stormfaker, as there is already a place where we discussed it all, using the same arguments. Except for this WoB about Jezrien's death, nothing new came up. I don't see those inconsistencies. Stormfather is inconsistent already. He deemed humanity doomed and sent a Highstorm to kill them, a few days later he shouted at Dalinar that he would get himself bonded to be killed, but merely a moment later he accepted his Oath. He denied Kaladin's plea to spare people in Highstorm in OB, and moments later he wanted to apologize to him by guiding him towards Urithiru. He called Dalinar's actions in Rathalas justice then agree with Dalinar that it was a massacre. He shifts left and right constantly and we saw him do the same in prologue: I can't see any ability that the prologue Stormfather has that Dalinar's Stormfather doesn't. And it's explained why he behaved so differently with Dalinar compared to Gavilar, he sworn to do it differently: Up until the KoWT prologue we simply didn't know Stormfather could lie or want to lie. But he lies, he lies by omission, which is still a lie. He keeps many secrets to himself. OB ch 113: OB ch 65:

Or he lied, which is consistent with Stromfather we know. It took some time for Stormfather to admit to Dalinar that he was not only forced by Honor to choose a person for visions, but also to choose a person to bond and make new Bondsmith. Despite Dalinar and others talking multiple times about Heralds, Stormfather never joined until Dalinar asked him directly twice. Stormfather also hadn't told Dalinar for a long time that the mad person in Dalinar's camp was Taln, or that Taln's Honorblade is missing, or that he bonded Gavilar. He never said where and what the Sibling is and many, many other situations when he doesn't share information, omits the truth or even lies. Most of this is because he is expecting direct questions about all those things, and that's the core problem with Stormfather. The reason why Stormfather didn't tell Dalinar about Taln is explained in the SA 5 prologue: There are "they" who can't know about it, and that's why he lied. Stormfather just wanted to hide the truth from people, just like he did at the end of WoR, he wanted to hide the truth of what happened in the Shattered Plains by sending an unexpected Highstorm to kill them all and hide their bodies. And to oppose this theory further (which is really great theory, I just don't agree), Stormfather could sense Jezrien's perma-death, while Heralds, particularly Kalak, weren't able to sense who died in the Last Desolation - Kalak didn't know that Taln died, Jez and the rest didn't know that Kalak wasn't dead. For me this is the biggest argument against this theory.

Yes, it's often pointed out here that both Rashek and Sazed while holding powers of Shards should have known Kelper's 3rd law and be able to precisely correct Scadrial's orbit. While in the case of Rashek this might be excused as knowledge isn't equal to precision he had (even if he knew where, he wasn't skilled enough with power to put Scadrial on correct orbit and would always overshoot, and he couldn't practice to gain that skill as it would destroy Scadrial). But Sazed should have known this. However my excuse is that knowledge is coming to a new Vessel gradually, and Sazed just tapped all memories from his metalminds. He had a clear image of star maps in his mind, while the Shadric knowledge of orbital mechanics wasn't there yet. Therefore he used star maps in the heat of the moment instead of waiting for knowledge to come to his (as people were burning on the planet and he had to act right now). But those are my explanations for why they didn't use Kepler's 3rd law. Oh yes, that's a problem. Bigger problem is a "blue white supergiant" star existing in the Taldain system, with a habitable planet in its orbit, tidally locked between that supergiant, and a white dwarf star on the other side of the planet. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Taldain_system Yes, but either within 1000 years this didn't cause any visible changes and later Sazed fixed this too, or Shardic power kept the system stable despite changes to Scadrial's orbit.

No. That was Radiant. She admitted it when Shallan tried to kill Kalak, starting Veil's integration. She took control for a little moment and stab Ialai, it was even said in that chapter, foreshadowing who it was, RoW ch 7: ch 93: I disagree. Those little amnesia moments with sketches are a clue for readers that Shallan isn't a reliable narrator, and tells us that there is something very wrong with Shallan and her different personalities, especially if you know nothing about DID. And as said in RoW, she didn't just suddenly get amnesia, she always had it, Veil was part of her for years protecting her from memories of Testament:

I think it's unlikely. Spren can still be hurt. Breaking oaths and deadeyeing his spren is the most extreme form of it, but just using a Shardblade to stab a spren from a PR (like Kal did) would likely be forbidden to him because it hurts both that spren and his Nahel spren too. Stormfather was hurt by Dalinar in OB too, Notum in RoW. This can be a likely explanation. Snapping creates cracks in a soul, he can't hurt a soul (or at least implies that in SH when he said to Kel that he didn't intend to hurt his soul), so he would be unable to snap via emotional Allomancy. Good question. Lifeless has a body, a soul made out of Breaths and a limited, but still has a self-aware mind. I don't think so, Different question, can he punch Kandra who turned off their sensors of pain? I think it might be possible if he didn't punch hard enough to cause tissue damage, and if he knows about that kandra can't feel pain for now.

I don't think he wants to learn to Awaken with Stormlight that much, or that that was one of his goals to settle there. He tried to do that and failed, we know that, but it doesn't mean that was one of his main motivations. His primary reason to be there is easy access to investiture. Moreover I think he's on Roshar because of his psychological and personal problems rather than because of any specific goal. He stated it himself in WoR ch 81 that he can't stand the memory of his home, and everytime he decides to breathe he makes a decision between two equally terrible things (or something like that, I lack the English version to quote precisely). In RoW he said that giving up the sword was the best mistake he ever made and that he hates fighting. I think he is just a broken man, by something that happened in the Warbreaker sequel, and he hid on Roshar among broken soldiers like he himself had become.

I was specifically responding to this part: "Thus making them take on all kinds of embodiments of natural laws (Honor and Cultivation) and emotions (Odium)" I said he doesn't fit this pattern, and Honor is responsible for emotion spren, not Odium. By bringing up corrupted spren I wanted to point out that not all Voidspren are truly his, that some were corrupted, but he still has his true, natural Splinters which are golden in color. Those aren’t spren related to emotions. Odium only recently invested in Roshar enough to make his Rhythm integral part of Roshar, there is little time for him to influence other spren. While some normal, lesser spren (not native to Braize) are for sure invested with some Odium's investiture next to main mixes of Honor and Cultivation's investiture, and thus are influenced by him, this on a much smaller scale than what Honor and Cultivation have. Also Odium doesn't care about all emotions. He lacks care, love, empathy and emotions of this type (which was noted by Venli). Is his presence influencing people and spren in a certain passionate/hateful way? Possibly, but I don't think it's that noticeable in humans compared to other places in Cosmere. But in spren it might be as per one of WoBs I posted there: So yes, his presence would result in natural creation of more spren related to his intent, which is about hate, conflict (Sja-Anat noted Odium-Shard loves conflicts while Rayse-Vessel hates it) and some emotions. But as I said, his reluctance to invest more in Roshar would likely limit this effect a lot, or all spren manifested because of Odium are deemed to be Voidspren and were banished to Braize, and that's why we don't see his real spren there that clearly.

Perception and the fact that Kelsier was dead, a mind separated from his body. He shouldn't have felt any pain, but his mind was telling him to feel it (which Hoid told him right after their fight). Hoid knew about this and he caused no real harm as Kelsier was already dead. Hoid also said that he didn't intend to cause any real harm to his soul.

I've found WoBs asking the same question as you are, but they are at the bottom of this post. Seons and Skaze are far less numerous than Spren, and existed likely before Splintering of Devotion and Dominion. And they are made out of singular Aon which very likely limits how much they can be affected by perception of people. Not to mention, they are fully sapient and their self-perception now matters a lot. And they aren't made out of mixed investiture. On Threnody Shades are Cognitive Shadows, not Splinters, not spren. There is no other known world which has splinters present (no SP spoilers), only Sel and Roshar/Braize. They are Splinters of both Honor and Cultivation (and Odium for Voidspren), with varying amounts of investiture of both Shards. They aren't related to Splintering of Honor in any way, but are still called Splinters because Honor willingly Splintered part of his power to create spren (together with Cultivation). Because we don't know why. We know only that Roshar is the only world where Splinters exists in such high concentration, a world that was directly design by Adonalsium who created first spren (starting a pattern and influencing future generation of spren to be spren of nature and emotions) and might have set up this system to work in that way (notice that spren in Shonovar are almost non-existing for some reason), and lastly we know spren are highly influenced by human perception. Combination of all of those factors likely resulted in spren being embodiment of nature and emotions, which simply isn't possible on other worlds, as they either fully lack Splinters, have to few Splinters, the place wasn't specifically design by Adonalsium to fulfill some purpose, and humans might have perceived a world there a bit differently, or sapient species were absent for a long time (like humans or Singers) to imprint their perception on investiture, unlike on Roshar. There is this WoB which said that if another Shard settle on Roshar, new types of spren might start to appear, this suggests Roshar has something unique that makes it happen: And there are those WoBs, which suggest spren of nature and emotions are present on Roshar because of Cultivation and Honor being there, which might not work for different Shards (at least in type of spren popping into existence): And in my search for WoB for you I have found it: There is no other place like Roshar and Sel that has a significant amount of free investiture just lying around doing nothing. On Sel, spren are in the form of Seons and Skaze because of the nature of Devotion and Dominion, just like on Roshar spren of nature are leaning more towards Cultivation, while spren of emotions are leaning towards Honor. But there must be free investiture present and this is possible to happen only on Roshar and Sel, with Roshar developing so many different types of spren of nature and emotions, because there is so much more free investiture there compared to Sel. I was just scrolling through WoB Coppermind searching for correct WoBs and posting them here if they have at least some connection to your question. I definitely posted too many WoBs, but it's too late. If you want, you can search for the answer yourself - there are 17 pages full of 824 WoBs related to the word "spren". Warning, full Cosmere spoilers: https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=spren Odium doesn't fit the pattern, he corrupted existing spren creating some of red Voidspren, while golden spren would be mostly of him by natural creation. Stormspren are Voidspren, just as Chaosspren, Secretspren and Guiding Spren. Spren of emotions are actually spren of Honor, while nature are of Cultivation - per one of the WoB somewhere above, and Coppermind:

Welcome to the Shard. You're a very wise bear, great observations. But... Constellations and zodiac signs. While the orbit of Scadrial was changed, the calendar used by Scadrian wasn't. TLR still forced usage of old callender, which didn't line up with new seasons and with the position of constellations in the sky. This is the easiest way to explain how Sazed was able to use ancient sky maps. If Nelazans were able to produce super-precise star maps, Sazed as a Shard, with sight unmatched by human eye, would be able to pinpoint location of pre-Rashek Scadrial. Before Rashek's Ascension, Scadrial was technologically advanced, with gunpowder and trains present, which ensured the existence of sophisticated telescopes. What do you think? Also, nitpicking (because I love to do that), you said that Earth would have to move several light years to see changes in the position of stars in the night sky. I disagree. Alpha Centauri is just a few light years away, just 4.5 LY from Earth. This system is also the 3rd brightest in the night sky. Moving Earth by several light years closer to or further away from the Alpha Centauri would significantly change its brightness and position on the sky (when Earth is moved in a different direction). Of course this doesn't really matter on the scale we're talking about, less than 1 AU changes. But as I said, I'm nitpicking. But now I also wonder how would your conclusion change if you take into account that Cosmere is a small star cluster, and distances between known worlds might differ from what we have in our stellar neighborhood. If it was a particularly compact region, with stars close to each other, would this create a more visible change when changing the orbit of Scadrial?

This subforum is only for discussing preview chapters of SP, not full released books, please put all those question in a spoiler box by using edit option at the bottom of your post: If you want to openly discuss SP3, you can do it in this section of the forum: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/forum/110-spoiler-zone/ Because this thread is from March 21, 2022, the spoiler stream in question is from a year ago, which I think happened on June 16, 2022 (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/498-youtube-spoiler-stream-4/), as that's the first spoiler stream after this date. It was a year ago, and I don't think it answered any questions about secret projects. I also don't see any information about new spoiler stream, but it might happen soonish just like with Tress spoiler stream.

That's better. Still unstable, one star would be flung out into the void, but magic will fix that. Ok, that's end-negative for sure. Good think you clarify the details. Yes, it's good one. Nitpicking time! Two moons? Are they orbiting any planet or just their star? If there is no planet, those are no moons, it's a space station they are a binary planet. Very rare, we haven't found any of such systems yet (Pluto-Charon or Earth-Moon are sometimes proposed to be binary planets but aren't), but it's possible. If they are moons and they have a planet, what planet are they orbiting? Gas giant - that's fine, not sure about shared orbit. Rocky planet like Earth - it's almost impossible for a rocky planet to have 2 big spherical moons, especially on the same orbit around each other. Dude Really? I envy this system, I would love to witness a star eclipsed by a black hole Possible, but dangerous. What's the mass of the star and that black hole (make the star G-type main-sequence star, just like the Sun to avoid problems with no light on planets and with too short lifespan)? Does this black hole consume that star, or are they far away from each other (far away to avoid X-rays emitted from accretion disk, but then black hole is invisible on the sky unless it passes in front of the second star)? What's the origin of this black hole - is it captured or from a star collapse? Both could be disastrous events for the planetary system, destroying the binary planet for sure if that's a captured black hole. Core collapse implies a massive star, more than 40-90x the mass of the Sun to guarantee no Supernova (which would create so much troubles for the binary planet). But every star big enough to collapse into a Supernova would go through a red giant phase, expanding to such a radius to likely transfer mass to/from the other star, and swallow neighboring planets, or change their orbits, destroying the binary planet. Basically I don't see a way for a binary planet to exist around a black hole. I'm no expert though, I'm just nitpicking. Magic is the answer Don't do that. I did math, that's 7x the density of Earth, impossible to exist. Make them just Earth-sized with Earth's gravity. Or play around with lower gravity and smaller planets, like Roshar, that can be fun. Or just make them as dense as Earth/Mercury - lower mass, lower gravity, but real planets - Mercury's gravitational acceleration is 40% of Earth's but has only 30% radius compared to Earth's, on your planets which have larger radius, with real densities, gravity would still be smaller than what's on Mercury. People living on those planets (with real density) adapted to low mass environment over long period of time (form investiture for example)(can jump really high, and are the highest in Cosmere) but incoming travelers need to use F-iron medallions or Gravity fabrials to live there - cool real mechanic involving the use magi-tech. You can then say that because those devices weren't developed till current times, contact and trade with this system was very limited (plus a black hole would mess up time dilation in CR for trade routes). Strong magnetic field is fine. Red water indicates a huge concentration of iron. Keep in mind, large animals require ridiculous amounts of food. That's not how light works You have darker and murkier water, you have no light propagation in it. Investiture still glows emitting normal physical light. Unlikely, unless they were brought there from Yolen, or recreated by a Shard. Sooo they are oceans? Definition of ocean: a very large expanse of sea, in particular each of the main areas into which the sea is divided geographically. Hold up a minute. You said: Both moons also have extremely strong magnetic fields. You can't have a strong magnetic field without large tectonic activity, especially on a planet where the majority of its surface is land. Either you make it like Roshar (created by Adonalsium with some way to generate magnetic field or you make it tectonically active. I wonder how big a cave can get before it collapses on itself. It depends on the depth. No complaints here, just wondering. I like cavy planets. It's dark so no luminosity is there Love it. Cough cough Autonomy would like to have a word with you about Taldain. Oh wow, that's cool. Killing your enemy's siblings to make them lose power is a new tactic in future vs threads Radiants? They throw spheres around like crazy. While they aren't ruling class, they're rich. Elantrians however were a ruling class. Is the tech developed on Nirah like fabrials, dependent on magic? Or is it powered by Lightbearers directly (they make electricity in power plants)? Or is it Earth-like tech? This is important. How? Lightbearers make light, heat and electricity, not propellant (which is mass). They can use electricity or heat to heat up gasses which are later thrown behind the ship, propelling it forward, but having a machine doing it for you is better. It might be cool to make those bacteria unable to live in Verdas' oceans (for example due to low concentration of iron), and thus they have to struggle with artificial enclosures to create Seashine. It sounds more believable than people just being nice and caring for ecosystem Wait, without intent? Do you mean if someone accidentally does the right steps without wanting to use this art they will still use them? Do Pewter suppresses inventions too? Is it? Is the god metal used up in the process of creating Haze? If yes then it's end-positive. If the investiture comes from energy (heat) alone than it would likely be end-positive (the investiture itself is used up but comes from external source, heat). That was simply amazing. Congrats on that one (except for the binary planet's density which is still triggering me and I've returned to it like 3 times writing more about it). Fun read and fun ideas, very fun to nitpick and discuss in more details. So good. I really love it.