alder24

It is allowed, RoW too. She said the words in her mind and couldn't say them out loud, that's why Stormfather accepted them. RoW ch 117

That was my point, it's subjective. Even Windrunners can disagree among each other. Honor is greater than any order's interpretation, so choosing just one of them is not a way to go.

Highspren would disagree:

No. That connection isn't Nahel Bond and will fade when you stop tapping. You need to have in your spirit web a permanent Nahel Bond to the spren, and a stolen power. Without Nahel Bond that power form spren would be useless.

Maybe you should read the all of her posts again, as she explains the logic of it very well - you're own claims are to blame, as you can't have "compounding fueled by Ruin" and WoBs on "Allomancy powering compounding" at the same time - you can't ignore those WoBs, but that's what you're doing this whole time. If both your claims are true, then it would mean that Allomancy draws from Ruin in your theory - which isn't true, that's why she explained it that way, as only your claims can be wrong. That's how Firesong explained how illogical are your claims, because those are the consequences of your own claims.But we have proof of the opposite from WoBs and books. Read this page again, pay special attention to all those WoBs we gave you, because your claims and the WoBs can't be true at the same time, because consequences of it contradicts other WoBs and quotes from books. No reply to "So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy?" Why?

It's hard to say in my opinion. Spikes are dealing with stealing pieces of soul, but also blood seems to be required. So just stabbing a cognitive manifestation of a living person might not work. But you definitely can stab spren and CS like Kelsier from CR. No, you need to spike a spren and a Radiant - you need both Connection from Radiant and power from spren, that requires two spikes, Just spiking a bondless spren isn't enough.

Alloys of god metals aren't simply invested, they are still a body of a Shard, they aren't like invested objects, they are like a god metal, a pure investiture only mixed with base metal. That's why the power comes from it. The WoB Firesong gave in his post is the most important explanation about the nature of god metals: "Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future." Invested metalminds have no such super-fuel in them, as they aren't essences of gods. That's why a god metal (and its alloys) does what it does, because it's the nature of god metals. Invested metals aren't like that. They aren't fuel for Allomancy. You can't get 10x more investiture just from investiture that is in metalmind - you can't create investiture out of nothing, and that's what you're doing with this claim. There isn't enough investiture in metalmind to give you 10x more attribute on its own. This extra investiture must come from somwehere, and that's where Allomancy comes from, as you're burning a metalmind, allomantically. Investiture in compounding comes mainly from Preservation, but the bit in metalmind returns to you too. Why? It draws power from your own body, as numerous sources from books and WoBs are proving, so it's of both Ruin and Preservation as that's what makes up your soul. Plus Feruchemy is a bit more of Preservation than Ruin, so why would investiture in metalmind be fully of Ruin? Which is wrong. WoBs and books disprove this and you have no source backing this up. There are multiple WoBs that state that compounding is powered by Allomancy, by the same power as Allomancy is powered: "So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy." This is the definite proof that compounding doesn't use 100% of the investiture in metalminds, instead it uses the same power that fuels Allomancy - which is Preservation. I have no idea where this is coming from. Oh, from here. Please, just read them all carefully before responding, paying extra attention to WoBs as they explain everything. All your assumptions about Feruchemy and compounding are wrong, that's why you came to wrong conclusions.

Metalmind isn't nearly as invested as god metal and can't be. God metal is a mini black hole, transcending all 3 realms at once - invested metalmind isn't. A god metal is a pure essence of a Shard, an invested metalmind isn't. A god metal is physical, solid state of investiture, invested metalmind isn't. A god metal is a body of a Shard, invested metalmind isn't. God metals aren't comparable to simple invested metalminds, because investiture in metalminds isn't the pure essence of a Shard. Invested material is in no way comparable to a god metal when it comes to compounding. And there isn't enough investiture in a metalmind for compounding - if you store 50% of your weight forn 1h, you have 1h of attribute in your metalmind in the form of investiture. No more. Period. Brandon times and times again explains that Feruchemy is end-neutral - what you put in, you're getting back, nothing from an external source is stored in your metalmind (it's only used for transferring attributes into investiture and back, but this isn't stored in a metalmind). Laws of Cosmere prohibits you from making 10h of 50% weight from 1h of 50% weight - you can't create investiture or energy. Period. But this is what you want to do. This energy you want doesn't exist. Allomancy is powering it, because you're drawing the power from Preservation directly. Brandon explained it so many times it's crazy, go read WoBs, like this one, read it please: This proves that Feruchemy isn't powered by an external source but by your own investiture (it's internal and end-neutral), Allomancy draws from the Shard (the Shard means Preservation per books and other WoBs previously quoted here), and compounding is powered by that Shard (keep in mind, this WoB talks about how Rashek used compounding, and he was mainly compounding Atium - this might draw from Ruin, or more likely from the metal itself (still the essence of Ruin) - in the case of Atium the power will come from Ruin's essence trapped in the form of god metal, and that's why it's Shards in the WoB). There is a Feruchemical genetic decay present, just like Allomantic genetic decay - power gets weaker with every generation, it's not precisely 1:1, but really close to it - this might explain the loss: At this moment I'm not really sure if you purposefully misunderstood WoBs or not. Metal is a filter for the power coming from Preservation, a Feruchemical charge overwrites that filter and acts as a new filter for the power: "The metal acts as a filter, much as the Aons in Elantris do, to determine what the power actually does. [...] The Feruchemical charge acts as a filter as well as the metal, and changes what the power does." The second WoB said: "So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy." There is only one power that usually fuels Allomancy - Preservation himself. This statement is a definite proof that you're wrong. You've just shown that you haven't even read those WoBs I've given you. You're cherry picking statements from WoBs that fit your theory, ignoring all those contradicting it. No inconsistency here. Brandon said that it's going to depend on who the Breaths are keyed to, nothing more. The WoB I gave asked about Misborn burning a metal that he Awakened - so the Breaths are keyed to him, and that's why Brandon said Breaths will return to him. It's fully consistent with this WoB. Which I've disproven in every post. This additional investiture is only used to power transformation of attributes into investiture - that's what the WoB said. I will be repeating the same thing said in that WoB over and over again. Investiture in metalminds comes fully from your body, not any external source. Books and multiple WoBs are the proof. Being very close isn't the same as being a Shard. The Bands aren't a Shard, they aren't as invested as a Shard. On top of that they are 16 metalminds combined and they are still not a Shard. A full metalmind is at least 16x further away from being a Shard than the Bands (unless Bands were filled with something like Mists as some theorize, which would place the Bands ridiculously further away from a normal metalmind). And again, you're ignoring another WoB I've given to you, where Brandon said that a full metalmind is moderately hard to steelpush (which means moderately invested), while a Shardblade is very hard to push (very highly invested). Another WoB said that Scadrial is a low invested world compared to Roshar, meaning people deal with little investiture on Scadrial, unlike on Roshar. And to actually steelpush a Shardblade, you need to wield the full power of the Well of Ascension - Wax can push some metalminds, more invested ones can still be pushed with duralumin. So a metalmind is very, very far away from a Shardblade. So if Allomancers hold "almost none investiture", how much would a metalmind hold when they can push it with their "almost none investiture"? There is less power in a metalmind than what Allomancer can draw from Preservation when burning metals. That's why compounding is utilizing that power of Preservation, because metalmind on its own can't provide 10x the amount of investiture it holds. There are dozens of WoBs about the amount of magic systems on Roshar, in most of them Brandon says how hard it is to define a magic system on Roshar, as it isn't that clear like it is on Scadrial. No, this one WoB is in no way definite, when there are dozens of others, especially the one saying "we haven't seen Cultivation's magic except for the Old Magic". WoBs are contradictory at best. Surge is a word that means powers of creation. Surges on Roshar are manifestations of what people percive to be fundamental forces. Transportation can be done by many invested arts, and all of them work on the same principles. I don't really understand what you want to say here. He stored all senses in his tin rings, and he did that every other day - and they were only rings, not bracers - rings were small and would carry less than what's in bracers. That wasn't not a lot when he stored them so often. And I didn't say that's tiny. Edit: If this feels too aggressive, it wasn't my intention, sorry. We really should just stop it. If this doesn't convince you, I don't think anything but a direct conversation with Brandon won't convince you. You keep ignoring books and WoBs that tell you time and time again that Feruchemy is powered by your body, not an external source, or that Allomancy is powered by Preservation, or what compounding is doing and what role has investiture in burnt metalmind etc. There is really no point in continuing this discussion if you keep dismissing all those WoBs and sources from books. I fear it will get too heated. Now we're talking about the amount of investiture in the Bands and full metalmind, which in no way is connected to the original topic and I fear we will keep disagreeing on every detail. That's why it's better to agree to disagree and drop this.

No. Every person you know, everyone you love, all your friends, family members will age and die, and you will be there to witness the death of them all. That is terrible and depressing, and having immortality with loneliness and depression is the worst. But your version of immortality guarantees that you will eventually die of cancer, and that will be a long and troublesome death. So not only you will lose everyone you know, but also struggle with cancer time and time again until eventually you will die, after years of fighting with it. Or some random sickness or injury will finish you earlier. It's not as bad as traditional immortality, but still is bad.

Yes No, Vin ordered people to search for Koloss and then she went there and soothe/riot them with duralumin - only a group she went to, not every Koloss in the city at once. But she still needed a lot of brass/zinc but not at the same time. She could just go back to Venture Keep and get more vials after taking control over a few groups. Both soothing and rioting work for taking control over Koloss and Kandra. Vin took control over TenSoon at the end, so yes, but there is a but - a rioter, misting, can't burn duralumin. So Misting alone can't take control over Koloss or Kandra. HoA spoilers:

No oxygen. Even in hibernate state you need constant oxygen. Not every once in a while but all the time. TotES: Kandra would need a lot of bones for that. Making a boneless body like that wouldn't be possible. And they would probably be unable to move with those tendrils intact. Plus there is a mass limit on Kandra, but rather a big one so no worries here. Maybe, hide mice or rabbit bones in your body and use them after catapulting your spikes. The bones must be adequate to the sizes of Blessings. That might hurt a bit, and they would lose a lot of cognitive function etc, but possible. But with bones a problem is that they would break on impact, leaving them still immobile, but now without additional mass required to grow muscles holding broken bones together. Unless you're hiding the flying squirrel skin inside of you too, that won't end well at all.

No. Not any invested metal - god metals only. Metalminds aren't invested enough. They work as a keyhole for investiture to go through, changing what the power from Preservation does. No it doesn't. How can you get 10x the attribute if you're using only the attribute you had in metalmind? Where is this extra energy coming from? Think about it. That's not what compounding is doing. You're cherry picking WoBs that fit your idea, while ignoring those which are in conflict with it. I've given you WoBs about mechanism of compounding, explaining what this investiture in metalmind is actually doing - it isn't used as a fuel for compounding, only as a keyhole, for fuel to come fully from Preservation. You still get this investiture in metalminds back to you, yes (as burning Awaken metal gives those Breaths back to you if they are yours - WoB), but you also get much more from Preservation fueling Allomancy. That's where 90% of investiture is coming from, from Preservation, rest is released from metalminds. Not even close to a Shardblade. The Bands of Mourning weren't even as invested as a Shardblade and they contained a ton of investiture. Keep in mind metalminds are burned, it takes time to burn them all, they don't release all energy at once. If compounding gave you only the investiture trapped in a metalmind, burning it would give you the same amount of attribute which you store, not 10x more. No, you misunderstand the mechanism of Feruchemy and compounding. A metalmind contains tiny amount of investiture. Compounding doesn't use that for fuel, but only uses it like an new Aen, it tells investiture coming from SR what shape to form, and it returns to you. Raw investiture like Dor is something very different from investiture in metalmind. Dor is a liquid investiture, it's very, very dense, so dense that it gives the effect you saw in TLM. But metalmind is just invested a little bit - not with liquid or gaseous investiture, but static one. A metalmind is not as invested as a jar of Dor. Investiture can't be created or destroyed, your idea of compounding breaks this law, as you somehow get more investiture from tiny bit of investiture. You can't get 10x investiture using only 1x investiture as a fuel. That doesn't work like that. Or different attributes are converted into different amounts of investiture? Just like burning different metals is done by different rates as more energetic effects require more investiture. Less energetic attributes are turned into less investiture. So simple. You really misunderstood the WoB you've posted? Investiture coming from outside is used ONLY to transform physical attributes into investiture, and investiture back into physical attributes. Only for that. Even that WoB said: "Feruchemy, you are putting Investiture in from your own body" which breaks your whole line of reasoning. When you ignore all the evidence that says otherwise and cherry pick WoBs ignoring half of what was said in them that contradicts your idea, then sure. You've claimed that Feruchemy is only of Ruin, which was disproved by books and WoBs, claimed that Allomancy is now of Ruin, which was disproved by WoBs and books, that Hemalurgy isn't invested art - again, disproven by logic using books and WoBs etc. Now you're claiming that investiture in metalminds comes from an external source - dispriven by the very WoB you've posted. No definitions are needed here when you're ignoring evidence. That's why is simply better to drop it as nothing I say will change your mind, and nothing you say will change mine.

I don't think they can do it - it's still a body, made out of living cells, that require oxygen, blood circulation, water and energy to function, otherwise cells will start dying and the body will simply rot. A mech suit is out of the question, it's simply too big. Kandra still have a nervous system, so an eye camera like you propose is out of the question too - it's separated from their nervous system. Plus Kandra's soul would disconnect from the separated part. What MeLaan did was rip her arm out and later heal it, but the ripped arm was as good as dead for her - no connection, no feeling, no function - just a dying piece of meat. If it's reattached quickly enough, no significant damage to cells is done. They can't rebuild their bodies without bones. They would be stuck in goo form and eventually die of starvation, as now they have little to no mass. Possible but really hard to survive. Their enemy would have to somehow ignore them throwing a piece of meat (which requires bones) and the rest of the body just dropping down like a dead one - that would be pretty obvious.

I was thinking that too, but then as @Treamayne pointed out, Listeners Shardblades have a gemstone in them, just like human Shardblades - Radiants left their blades without a gemstone in them, thus they couldn't be dismissed or summoned. They were always stuck in their physical form. Only after a few decades after Recreance someone discovered that you can add gemstones to them and bond a blade. Listeners would have to discover this separately from humans but unlike them, Listeners had no idea about fabrials, trapping spren in a gemstone, no use for gemstones except growing food with larger ones, and their dullform and workform weren't particularly good at science. I find it unlikely that one day a Listener decided to place a correct type of gemstone in their Shardblade, corresponding to the spren type the blade used to be, Yes, I have that feeling too. It's likely that they have some amount of Shards hidden in Shinovar. But maybe Skybreakers are related to? They also have Shards. I think they were aware, I would be surprised if no Radiant ever just wanted to visit the ruins of Stormseat and accidentally discover Listeners. But most likely they just left them alone seeing their separation and isolation from Odium and forms of powers. Moreover Listeners talk about Neshua Kadal who fought about their gods, not ones who visited them bringing them gifts. It's also possible that at the time of Recreance Listeners were still in a dullform, without even a workform.

Oh right, I have a tendency of forgetting about it. The 2 last spoiler boxes contain short explanations, as per warning before, and the boxes within those boxes are WoBs on which I based those explanations. No spoilers in those WoBs, they talk about questions you've asked. Do they? Well here is a thing you don't know - Atium that appeared in era 1 isn't the Atium you think it is. Brandon realized that he needed to change its mechanics as he was writing HoA, and it wasn't explained in books at all. It was a retcon. Atium in era 1 was actually an Atium-electrum alloy, not pure Atium like Lerasium was - pure Atium allows you to peer directly into SR and see a greater picture, just like Elend did at the end of HoA - you can't really counter this that easily. The effects of pure Atium were also written at the Allomantic table attached to HoA. As a side note, a Mistborn burning Lerasium would get a different effect from it. Lerasium turning you into an Allomancer is a side effect, not main effect. So we still don't know what Lerasium really does and if Atium has a similar side effect. WoB about Atium retcon: WoB from HoA annotations, explaining mechanics of Allomancy and Lerasium: Please, in the future try to avoid double posting. You can quote multiple posts at once, if you want to answer to many people, or if you already wrote a post and want to add more, you can edit it using an edit option. Here are some tips for you:

Yes, you should know that. Atium used in Era 1 was a god metal. Lerasium ingested by Elend in WoA was a god metal. It wasn't called a god metal, but it was said it's the body of a god. I think the term god metal appeared in AoL for the first time (outside of WoBs). HoA ch 78 epigraphs: Yes, you can. Ars Arcanum in Era 2 doesn't contain spoilers for the book you're reading. It's just a reminder for you, so you can understand the magic system characters are talking about. When I was reading Mistborn for the first time (and second) I often looked at the table to remember what that metal does, or what metal this Misting uses or stuff like that. That's wrong, Aluminum Mistings don't do that, Chromium Misting does that. But this is something that you can just read about and it won't spoil you a book. The Ars Arcanum just contains quick and simple explanations, so if something appears, like an iron Ferring, you' ask yourself "what does he do" go to Ars Arcanum and refresh your memory. It doesn't spoil anything, it explains the magic system. Most of those metals and their properties were already explained in HoA book and Ars Arcanum, so this certainly isn't a spoiler. I don't think it was explained in books at all. It relies on your knowledge of HoA and Koloss named Human. Some Koloss were in Kandra's Homeland when Sazed Ascened. Below I explain it a bit more in a spoiler box, but I really think it wasn't said in anywhere books at all: Well, did they kill themself? They removed their spikes and were turned back into mistwraiths. But Sazed Ascended, he knew about them, what do you think he would do with them now when he's holding god powers? Again, I don't think it was explained in books at all, but just in case you don't want to know it, spoilers box:

Good point. How then? I doubt dullform Parshendi would be able to win them in a fight, or steal them. They were in isolation, so the fall of the Silver Kingdoms would miss them and by this time Stormseat was already shattered, no people there. Interestingly, Venli said this about Shardblades, which sounds a bit like they were given to them. RoW ch 68: Who would give them Shardblades with gemstones? Not Radiants at Recreance. If they weren't given to them, where did they find 8 sets, 16 Shards in total? That's a lot for a small tribal nation. For comparison I Dalinar in WoK said there were 80 blades in the entire world (WoK ch 52). Parshendi having 10% of them seems significant (10% as that was 5 years into the war and Alethi captured 7 out of 8 blades and Dalinar was aware that at least one blade is still in Parshendi hands).

I can't find anything about it. It has been puzzling me too for a while now. Either they've found it at Narrak when they came there, which is unlikely as much evidence points out to Stormseat being shattered before Aharietiam, or during Recreance some Radiants left their blades to them, because they knew neutral Listeners were living at the Shattered Plains and might need them. I think it's very unlikely that they've somehow get them from local, Natanan nobles after Recreance, as that would imply they had other forms that mateform and dullform (it was Venli who discover warform so it's even more unlikely), plus there would be some stories about contact and wars between humans, and "thinking parshmen".

No, because Honor's invested art already exists on Roshar, which is different than a new Shard coming to Roshar and fully investing in it, manifesting his own invested art there - like Odium. Ishar made Radiants AFTER he became a Herald with Honorblade granting him powers of the Bondsmith. Before that ever happened, Ishar was able to manipulate connections on Ashyn, which wasn't Surgebinding, but people on Roshar would call it that. Surgebinding is of Honor. Whatever was on Ashyn was different from what we have on Roshar. What are you talking about? You have two WoBs that complement each other. It is a simple logical leap - one WoB says that Allomancy is powered by Preservation, the other is saying that compounding fuels Feruchemy with Allomancy. When you're burning a metalmind, you draw directly from Preservation, as you're using Allomancy to fuel Feruchemy. The metal acts as a filter, which tells the power what shape to take - an invested charge of a metalmind overwrites the normal filter of this metal and tells it to take another shape - attribute. But the power still comes from the same source that fuels Allomancy - from Preservation. The only moment when natural Allomancy is fueled by Ruin is when you're burning Atium and its alloys - in that case you're powered by Ruin's essence trapped in the form of metal, not from Ruin himself. So no, compounding doesn't draw from Ruin, investiture in metalmind is only a filter for the power given by Preservation. What math doesn't add up? The power you store is the power you get back - nothing in your metalmind came from external source, only from you. The only external power used in Feruchemy is to change the physical attribute into investiture. That's it, it does a work and is used up. But only what's yours is stored in your metalmind. You have Brandon that said so many times that Feruchemy uses only your body, and nothing else. That's why it is end-neutral, as when you're tapping a metalmind, you're drawing from the power you previously put in there, which came only from your body. If we're nitpicking then I will point out that this WoB doesn't say that. It said "they are connected to him via spikes". We know that Bavadinium allows you to talk to Trell, that has to involve connection. Old Magic is what Nightwatcher does, at least partially. No, because the WoB I gave you said "no one has used Cultivation magic on-screen (not counting boons and curses)." Lifebinding isn't just Old Magic. What positive and negative structure are you talking about? They are related to Cultivation, that's it. The Ashynite magic system is based on symbiotic relationship, a bond, Old Magic isn't. It doesn't need to do the same as Hemalurgy, it does similar things, that's enough. We don't know what would be the effects of stealing someone's attributes via Bondsmithing. I've told you what my definition of invested art is multiple times. The ability to access powers of creation filtered by Shard's intent, often based on people's perception of them. Why can there be only 16 invested arts for a Shard? What if Adonalsium was Shattered into more than 16 Shards? It was possible: Hemalurgy is Ruin's invested art. Allomancy is Preservation's invested art. Feruchemy is a merger of Ruin and Preservation, invested art which came form both of them. Shard don't have that much control over their invested arts as you propose - they do have some control, but they can't switch them. Feruchemy doesn't draw from any Shard - what you put into metalminds you get back and nothing came from a different source than your body I disagree with your theory of Lerasium-god metal-base metal alloys, but still accept that we know too little about god metals to say anything about what a triple alloy would do. I don't see a reason why a Shard would be limited to only 16 Magics, when Allomancy and Feruchemy gives Preservation 32 already. But because we know next to nothing about those things, it's hard to say anything definite. But we repeat the same things over and over again, getting further away from the main topic, and disagreeing over everything. Now we're talking whether Old Magic is Lifebinding and related to Ashynite invested art - which is just pointless. That's why I think it's better to just end it, agree to disagree because we can't convince each other on those points. Especially when you're rejecting such simple and confirmed things like "Feruchemy being of both Ruin and Preservation". I see your theory as interesting speculations, but that's it, speculations, not based on any concrete evidence, and in places contradicted by books, WoBs and logical connections between them. That's why it's better to just agree to disagree.

I meant they don't change it into corrupt or raw investiture or something like that. They don't turn Breaths into something else like Nightblood. Identity doesn't matter here.

Welcome to the Shard. The black smoke Nightblood leaks is corrupted Breaths - the Breaths got consumed and changed into something else and that's leaking from Nightblood. They were most likely corrupted by Ruin due to Nightblood's command "destroy". It's still Investiture, and in Cosmere investiture can't be destroyed, just like energy in our universe. The smoke just returns to the Spiritual Realm, but we don't know to which Shard it returns - to one that it originally belonged to, or to the one that corrupted them (Ruin). It won't stay in the Physical Realm, in a box or on a planet for long. Because they don't corrupt Breaths, they don't change them, and they don't hold as much investiture as Nightblood holds. Returned just consume Breaths in its entirety. The Breath they've consumed powers their Divine Breath for another week. Nightblood isn't like that, he consumes and corrupts everything. There is more Investiture in the sword than it can actually hold - that's why he leaks it. Returned aren't nearly as invested to leak investiture like that. Investiture consumed by them eventually goes back to the Spiritual Realm and to the Shard it came from. Mistborn spoiler WoB:

It depends where in Cosmere. On Roshar you might get Internetspren. On Scadrial not much. But internet isn't alive, isn't sapient or sentient, you won't get a Cognitive manifestation like humans have, or AI can have.

How did you get to that conclusion when there is nothing to suggest that? It isn't named "Survivalist Words of Founding" nor did Wax, who knew them well, contradicted Marasi. It was clearly about the Words of Founding, written and left by Sazed, not changed by anyone. MeLaan was kind of busy living in PR and trying to convince TenSonn to rebel against the 2nd generation, and later saving him, and later not getting under Ruin's control. MeLaan had no idea what was happening in CR, not to mention SR. How would she know that? She can't see that. No, she simply has never read 80 or more volumes of Words of Founding. Can you blame her? This episode was enough to determine that Kelsier somehow survived his death and Ascended to Preservation like VIn did in HoA. That's a lot. Why we don't know details of the afterlife yet, we have hits here and earlier in HoA to make us suspicious. That's enough. First off, Brandon in any way didn't give us a detailed answer. He said in different WoBs that Kelsier has bones, which are useful to getting his body back, and that a single hemalurgic spike is sufficient to pin a soul into a Mistwraith's body (he didn't confirm that Kelsier did it, only suggested it). But all of this leaves so many things out. Who helped him? Is this spike charged? Does it contain his soul? Any powers? Nothing? How did they do that? Why didn't he recover his Allomancy after getting his body? Whose body is that specifically? Brandon just teased us with clues, nothing more. All of this is left for SH 2 and Era 3. But it was revealed in TLM! Kelsier said that the spike is pinning him to his body. We have this information in the book now, that earlier was revealed in WoBs (which was very easy to spot in BoM). TLM epilogue 4: The only real spoiler was Kel being alive, but this was already hinted to us in HoA, so not a big deal. It's really hard to "show" details of the magic system, someone had to explain them. Sazed did in epigraphs, but they can only be as long as they were, that's why annotations are there, to explain more than the story can.

That's why I said Rosharan would call it Surgebinding, not Khriss. I wanted to point out that people are using many different terms to name the same phenomena. I disagree - Feruchemist tapping duraluminmind doesn't invoke Honor. Preservation snapping people into Mistings doesn't invoke Honor. AonDor forging connection in any way doesn't invoke Honor - those are done through different Shards, not Honor. More, yes, but not in a way you want it to have. Honor can't pop up another Surge into existence just like that. It's predetermined in some way, and it depends on what people perceive as fundamental forces. Shards can't switch invested arts. Yes, Rashek did get an instinctive understanding of Metallic Arts, including Hemalurgy. I think it was said somewhere in HoA that Ruin whispered to him more about Hemalurgy, allowing him to create those 3 Hemalurgic Constructs he did, but I can't find it now so I don't know anymore. Understanding Hemalurgy isn't the same as practice. HoA ch 9 epigraphs: HoA ch 44 epighraph: That's not Lightweaving, that's because the Shroud is formed out of Cognitive Shadows, who are very susceptible to perception - the Father Machine controls them and forces this form onto them. I said like in the next sentence that Harmony did this subconsciously, not intentionally. It was explained in TLM Ars Arcanum. Now I see the last part is very interesting, disproving your theory - Shards don't have that much power over their invested arts. It does - you have to bond to use it. Even Honorblades need to be bonded to be used. We have no idea what Shard Ashynite invested art was aligned with, it was most likely Cultivation based, as per WoB Cultivation was at some time on that planet and the magic system isn't exactly the same as it used to be - it changed. We know it wasn't Surgebinding, but Rosharan would call it that way, just like they would call AonDor Surgebinding. Ishar having powers of Ashynite Bondsmith were likely not from Honor. But Ashyn is simply fully unknown to us right now. True, but that is very logical to me, enough to make this very likely. Corruption is very likely to happen with spiking - we saw that with Trellium spikes, their eyes were sometimes glowing red, indicating corruption, and Trellium spikes had red veins on them. Not every corruption is red - Nightblood bleeds out black, corrupted investiture (likely Ruin's investiture based on WoB), I see it very likely that the act of spiking corrupts stolen investiture with Ruin's investiture and this is planted into your soul. That's why spikes repel Mists, as they contain Ruin's investiture, that's why they grant connection to Ruin, that's why I believe that Allomancy granted with spikes is powered by Ruin, not Preservation. That WoB was 2 years before the RoW release, where the term "Lifelight" first appeared. That's why he said Stromlight. Yes it does, normal compounding uses Allomancy to fuel attributes of Feruchemy. And normal Allomancy is fueled directly by Preservation. Only when Allomancy is granted by Hemalurgy (in my opinion), as you're burning metal, that's Allomancy, not Feruchemy anymore. Your physical taste buds are changed in some way, or your spirit is altered - we don't know the precise mechanism of Feruchemy, but we do know that investiture comes from your own body, mind and soul. It isn't in any way external. If a tiny bit of your soul, responsible for tasting, gets drained a bit (not fully as you can't store 100% of attribute except for memory) and that is put into metalminds, or maybe your taste receptors get physically smaller, or nerve signals to them get stored - I don't know what is stored here but it something is from your body, no investiture is coming from outside and is put into metalminds. That's why Feruchemy is generally so weak - you need to spend a lot of time storing to have some use of it - compounding makes it much, much stronger, gives you so much more attributes, but it is still powered by Allomancy, which compared to other invested arts, give you very little amount of investiture. But the change is so big, as your body and soul can only fuel Feruchemy so much. Something like heat is easier to understand - you convert energy of your atoms in your body into investiture. The only external investiture involved in Feruchemy is the one responsible for changing your energy into investiture - but that is used up and isn't stored. But what you put in metalminds is what you get and that comes from your body, not from external sources. That's why it's end-neutral. Feruchemy is end-neutral, there is no investiture coming form any external source. That's what end-neutral means. It's powered by your body, your mind, your spirit. Ars Arcanum: The investiture in Allomancy comes from Preservation into your body. I don't know if investiture from White Sand goes into your body or is simply used up from the Sand directly. But that was weak nitpick. Yes, and yes, but the spike itself grants connection to Ruin, like Trellium spikes connect to Autonomy. Plus, Hemalurgy arised from interactions between Shards and Scadrial. And talk to those strongly connected to him - like Vin to Elend or Kel to Vin and Spook. Ashynite magic and Old Magic aren't the same, they are RELATED, because they both originate from Cultivation. Lifebinding, while unconfirmed, seems to be a very solid speculation, and we know for sure there is unused Cultivation magic system on Roshar - whatever it's named: In that case you get connected directly to Autonomy, getting her main invested art. Side note, Roshar is influenced somewhat by her: Whatever happens it wont give you invested arts. Atium-electrum alloy can't be burnt by non-Allomancers, even by non-electrum Mistings. I personally think that while god metals in general can be burn by anyone (whatever Brandon means by that), alloys can't and you have to be tied to the Shard to burn them (as Mistborn would have a hard time burning a Shardblade, which is an alloy, or lack tie to it to burn it). Lerasium seems to be an odd one, as anyone on Scadrial can burn it and its alloys, without being an Allomancer. In my opinion it is very likely that contaminating Lerasium with another god metal, makes it lose this property (maybe with the exception of Atium for reasons). But that's all speculation, we know next to nothing about god metals and their alloys. They are real, but I don't believe they have effects like you want them to have. What if Shard manifests more than 16 magic systems? I don't see anything that would prevent them from doing that - in fact one can argue that Preservation has done this already - 16 Allomantic powers + 16 Feruchemical powers shared with Ruin, or Honor's 10+10 whatever he has on Roshar. What If Preservation manifests an Avatar on Nalthis, or invests on Nalthis, creating a new magic system? Which alloy would give you that power? You've already used all 16 base metals to get Allomancy, there is no one left that would give you Preservation's magic from Nalthis. Shards' power is infinite and omnipresent - there is no limit for them manifesting Avatars. If the sole presence of Avatar spawns a minor magic system, the Shard can definitely have more than 16 invested arts. I'm simply rejecting your idea that Shards can manifest only 16 invested arts, and that Lerasium+god metal+base metal gives you specific invested art. Big WoB about Avatars and how Autonomy creates them: Unknown, Brandon hasn't decided yet: But connection is investiture, if you're stealing connection, you ripping it off the soul, even with Bondsmithing. We kind of saw that with BAM and all Parsh - imprisoning her ripped connection from their souls. Oh, you're saying that during the spiking process, Ruin provides investiture to remove that piece of soul from the victim and attach it to the spike? The investiture Ruin provides is used only for cutting off and gluing pieces of souls, which are put into spikes. Make sense, it works like Feruchemy, where investiture from SR is provided to transform physical attributes into investiture, and back - but only for that.

I know, that's what I've been talking about. In my opinion you will get only normal human strength, nothing more, as most of Koloss strength comes from 4 spikes and changes done to the body due to those spikes. You can only take what's in your original soul, and that's human strength - you can't take what's given by spikes, and body deformations are given by spikes. That's happening because they are now Hemalurgic constructs, not humans, at least physically. Their body is twisted by spikes and tries to adapt - and spikes tell it to grow. But the spirit of Koloss is still human, as that's how they look in CR after death - that's what you're stealing, and only that, as rest is given by spikes - the growth of body muscle over time is the effect of spikes.