MacThorstenson

I think the spirit web is exactly what you want to change to enchant things. You just define the object as something different than what it was before EDIT: I think that most enchantments, unless they are visual, would require some form of fuel in order to provide an effect, like how most things in cosmere require fuel. EDIT 2: I think that most of the stuff about the magic system is wrapped up now, so what do people think the fuel should be?

Mac stepped up to the edge of one of the alleys near the Odd job tavern, taking care to make sure that he was still inside of it when he stopped. “Well,” he said to himself, “this guy wanted to meet here.” @ElendVenture

Great! Its good to see that we are on the same page!

Basically what I think. That is a very interesting idea, I didn't think of that. I don't think that the two are mutually exclusive, see my point below. This way, the people who's faith isn't in an omnipresent being have their folk hero, and if their god is omnipresent, then they have an ascended god. I do think that miracles don't work unless the god has ascended. Yes and no. Yes in that I basically agree with what you said, but I dislike the instrument part because it removes the part of the believer. The person is still a person with faith, with desires and a life, they just have access to this power if they need it for something that's inline with the gods will. If the action that they need the gods power for is something the god would do if it was on the planet, then they have access to the gods power. They can still choose whether to use it or not, but they would be able to use it if they so desired. They aren't an instrument in anyone's hands, they are their own agent, but they are choosing to act in like with the will of their god.

A voice whispers from the shadows of the shadows. "The DA can give you what the others can't"

I would say that I agree with steel here. The way I have it worked out, is that the spirit web is really just a string of connections moving from the spirit web to other things. Each of those connections is exactly the same, its only where they are reaching and where they attach that changes things. Living things have a lot more connections than non living things, so you can change their connections, move them around piece by piece, connect them to new things, do whatever you want with them. You can't get more connections without hard work, but by ritual magic you could easily move the connections around to achieve a desired affect. No not really, what I was referring to was changing who they are, what they are doing. You could anchor them to the PR, anchor them to an object, a place. Generally affecting CS's in any way would fall under necromancy. In terms of the god thing, I am completely with Xinoehp. When It comes down to it, miracles don't equal faith. People can see miraculous things, but not believe in a god, just like how people can believe in a god, yet not see it do miracles. So miracles aren't always faith increasing events, and it doesn't immediately become a feedback cycle. I would say, that each god is also bound by the faith of their believers, in that they can't exercise their power in a way that would go contrary to what their believers think they would do. Imagine that people believe that I am a just and merciful god. I can't go around smiting people because they hurt the feelings of one of my believers. I could talk to them, but what I would say would fit within my code of justice. I wouldn't kill them for mean words. Likewise, miracles would also be bound by the same way. Someone couldn't channel the gods power for something that the god wouldn't do already. I would note that most if not all of the time, this wouldn't be a restriction. Most gods would only get to power by being themselves, there isn't much benefit to doing anything else. If you lie to get to power, you can't do anything that's outside of what people think your power is. Most gods would be happy being themselves, because thats what people had faith in. Also, I think ascension shouldn't be an issue of critical mass. Ascension should be by a change of belief, saying that the god is now omnipresent. If people only see the god as a person with a body, then they don't ascend. But if people see the god as a person who can watch over everyone, then the god can ascend.

I also agree that we should leave the combative stuff to the innate, but I do have one thing to say on the division of magics. If the main magic is ritualistic magic, then the entire magic system for the world could lean more toward magi-tech, and not something more Wizardy like Harry potter, Gandalf, or even skyrim magic. If we wanted, we could separate the three branches of magic slightly, Keeping the ritual magic to be this, while changing the innate to be more Wizardry with spoken spells, and the natural magic being something else. I don't know about the natural magic. I would imagine that it would be very slow, and not even recognizable as manipulable. People would accept it as a way of life and wouldn't try to manipulate it and thus wouldn't have put much thought into it. I don't know though. Do you want to look into that and building that up? As for the branches of Ritual magic, I have a few ideas in the spoiler below.

But ritual magic, the way we have it, cant be aimed or anything like that. If people are using magic for combat its because they enchanted a weapon or object with that sort of thing.

If the parts of ritual spells that wizards had internalized needed to Be activates by a verbal command, we need to be strict about the strength of the command. The verbal command would need to be irrevocably tied to the affects you want it to achieve, such that if you heard it in passing you would be distracted as your mind prepared to cast a spell.

That would be cool if the innate system was verbally activated, but couldn’t be written down. One thing that I want to have happen is the ability to combine and change abstract concepts about people. So if I wanted to, I could change my age. This would require a little bit of ecology and ritual, enough ritual to do the transformation, but enough ecology to believe that age is a aspect that can be changed.

This is true. I would say that the transmutation and elemental mixing areas are very underdeveloped. In addition I would say that they would develope their own words for this sort of stuff, and have barely any knowledge of actual science. This would be so that we can keep the setting relatively fanstasy. In this case, he would be able to instinctively combine hydrogen gas and oxygen gas to water. Maybe he could combine it in different ratios. Another option is that all three are completely separated, which could be interesting for people trying to understand the connections.

This is as would be seen in a lab for a class. Spell for water: Introduction: There are a lot of things that go into creating a compound, and a lot of concepts that we will touch on. The first is placement. You need to be extremely specific on where you want your product, there will be no time to adjust this later due to the nature of spells. Spells map out what is going to happen ahead of time, and then everything happens in an instant. In addition the fuel and the rate of consumption of fuel is necessary. Other wise it will again, all be consumed in an instant. Placement: Of Products: You need to specify where you want the product to appear. If you specify nothing it will appear with the center of mass one foot above the center of the circle, the appearance point. In the case of liquids, it will appear in a droplet with the center over the center of Mass. Thankfully transmutation circles deal with the vacuums, making sure that no two atoms appear in the same place, and that no vacuums are caused by disappearing objects. In the event of water, it may be beneficial to either specify the size and shape of the container, or specify that you don't want the entire transmutation to occur at the same time, allowing a little to be formed in appearance point at a time. This allows the water to drain into your container via a trickle. Note: this may consume more fuel and require specifications in the fuel area. Note that this a a crash course on placement and that placement needs to be completed very thoroughly, as it is the fundamental part of the reaction. Of reactants: The reactants of water are tricky. You need to specify exactly what you are looking for, or else you will cause problems. In this case you want to specify and area that you want the spell to search (This area cannot exceed the size of the reactant circle) and specify what you want it to find. If you say Hydrogen instead of Hydrogen gas, you can break apart molecules causing violent reactions. Unlike vacuums, the nature of the magic doesn't protect from this. Fuel: You need to specify how much fuel is consumed, when to stop consuming fuel and where to take the fuel from first if necessary. Many of these commands are repetitive and usable in general forms, experienced magic users may want to internalize these instead of writing them out every time. If these are not included, then all the fuel will be consumed at once, regardless of how much was needed. This can result in large explosions. It may not be the best. In addition, unless specified otherwise, the equation will begin running when the fuel is placed regardless of completion. The best way to deal with this is to create a dot and link it to the system, so that it won't start unless something is on it, this can be refined to be specific things, like your finger. This can be refined to be a general condition, like a command, and can be internalized as it can be important. Draw the overlying circles. In the water circle: Specify where in the circle you want the result to appear, see placement for guidelines. Specify that you want the Oxygen gas to be separated into an atomic state. Specify that you want the Hydrogen gas to be separated into an atomic state. Specify that you want the atoms to be combined in a ratio of 1 Oxygen to 2 Hydrogen. In the Oxygen Circle: Specify what you want it to look for and where you want it to search. May be beneficial to have containers of pure oxygen gas. See placement for guidelines. In the Hydrogen Circle: Specify what you want it to look for and where you want it to search. May be beneficial to have containers of pure Hydrogen gas. See placement for guidelines. In the fuel circle: Specify the rate at which you want the fuel to be consumed. See Fuel for guidelines. Then you place the containers in their circles if you desire. Its recommended for minimal mess that you have a receptacle for the water, and containers of Oxygen and hydrogen Gas. Unless the fuel is in a volatile state, a container won't be needed. Then you place the fuel in the circle. Trigger the reaction. Without any specification, this is what would happen: All the Oxygen gas and hydrogen gas above their circles (Height would be determined by the amount of fuel) would be separated into atoms and combined in a ratio of 1:2, forming a sphere of water with its center at the appearance point. Then it would appear and drop to the ground. With specification: The Oxygen and hydrogen gas in the defined areas would be broken up little by little and appear as a trickle at the appearance point. @xinoehp512 @Steel Inquisitive EDIT: Dang it took me 40 minutes to write that, and I never even developed symbols.

I imagine that this system would be very similar to the selish magics in that it is very algorithmic. I also imagine that the placement of symbols would matter, which circle they are in and the such. Im going to write up a complete spell for water in english, give me a little.

While that's a cool idea, im not sure that that lends itself to the idea that anyone could access the entirety of the magic system, plus that would make it really hard to RP, because we would need to build a whole language/system from scratch in order to cast spells. With more general symbols we don't need to catalouge the whole 'alphabet' and invent a magic language. I was thinking that the form of the symbol has to tie into the spell you want to cast. Here's an example of something that would be easily known, A basic combination. This is what the layout is: O--O--O | O In the middle circle the result would appear, in the bottom the fuel. In the sides the objects you want to combine. A spell like this would do nothing but make a mixture of the two items, spacing the molecules out equally in them. Its good for instantly mixing solutions, thats about it. With modifications or different structure you could do things like specify the spiritweb of one object is moved while the physical aspect of another is moved. This would be the basis for enchanting. You could specify that atoms combine in specific ways. This would be the basis for how you get water. First you would need a spell for recognizing the presence of Oxygen and hydrogen gas. Then you would need to specify where the water would appear, then you would need to specify that the oxygen and hydrogen will split up and combine on an atomic level. Then you place the fuel and water is there. Thought? EDIT: We could say that people with innate power are able to describe the wants and desires via symbols.

What if the innates fuel is energy made by their body? Like Eragon? Definitely, but I think that ritual magic should be able to do nearly anything in regards to a few simple constraints (like conservation of energy and mass need to be maintained and a few other things) as apposed to innate magic which only has the simpler functions of ritual magic. Like if ritual magic can extract hydrogen and oxygen from any substance and turn it into water then control where the object moves, innate magic would only be able to create water from hydrogen and oxygen or another simpler function. This function could be expanded by peoples perception of you, so like if you can make water, but enough people have faith that you can control it, then you can control it. I had another idea, I think that if ritual magic can't create anything but can only move around, then we need some way for enchanting to work, because nothing is naturally enchanted. One way this could be accomplished is via a second fuel. Life. Imagine this, due to the fact that life is able to grow and develop, you can take its spirit web and manipulate it, and transfer it onto an object that isn't alive. With the extra spirit web, you are able to modify it to be the way you want it. As to how the symbols work, I think they should be changed a little. I also think the symbols need to change. I will look into that.

Heres my answer to 1. I think that the ecology should be limited to random magically invested things. Like the land being linked to perception, and random magical phenomena. The innate magic should be able to do what the ritual magic does, but easier because its imbued withing the persons sDNA, its also a lot more simpler, because its random. But I think that they should be able to do it without fuel. If we were to liken it to something we already have, it would be like being a misting, as compared to a mistborn. The mistborn needs metal to do a lot of things, but the misting can only do one thing. In this case, the misting wouldn't need metal, drawing the power directly from the spiritual realm. The ritual magic shouldn't be influenced by perception or limited by guild, I think that certain guilds may have a preference for what types of magic they do, but what magic they use isn't written into the system by anything. I don't think the ritual system should be able to do anything. I think that it should only be able to change things that are already there. Essentially it can transport anything on any of the realms and splice it together, move it, do anything. This way we can have things like imbuing an object with power, or spiritually editing things and still be limited. I would say that the lowest it could go would be the atomic level. You can't create gold from lead, but you can move all the gold in a mine to one area. You couldn't give make someone have innate magical power, but you could give them someone elses. What do you guys think?

What we have so far: 3 parts to magic Innate People who are born with the ability to use the magic. Ecology CR is close to the PR, land is influenced by perception, and areas that guilds control have affects from those guilds. Ritual Symbols can have magical affects. There is a fuel to the magic that exists in the physical realm and is necessary for ritual magic. It has 3 realms, like the cosmere. The magic functions on the same principles, but isn't the same. There are gods and they are influenced by perception. Is this what we have so far?