Nyali

Well, let's see: Steel - most useful for spiked Copper - second most useful for spiked Iron - useful for spiked Brass - useful for spiked Pewter - useful for spiked (for flaring mostly) Tin - useful for spiked who like messing with people Bronze - mostly useless (ironically, since it was the most useful in the books), but can be used to find people to spike early on? Zinc - completely useless for spiked So, that's roughly the order of usefulness, in my opinion, of spike metals. That means that if the Inquisitor had 5 spikes (spiked 4 people, died with 1 spike), then if Ren wanted the most useful metals to be in the hands of the Spiked, they'd have... yeah, the same five you said. But, if Ren wanted the Spiked to have less useful spikes for game balance, then anything goes. And Lekal has 2. Isn't this game fun?

How do you know that the Inquisitor started with an Iron spike? Or are you just guessing/assuming?

Quick links: Player list: Ack. Well, we had a 50% chance of being right... =\ Venture has 7 Koloss, by the way, according to our Kandra scouts. (Not that we have any Kandra scouts, nope, 'cause we're totally legit around here. Our scouts are just, uhh, some guys. Who can change their shape. <.< ) Are we going to swarm Venture with Koloss, or are we going to coinshot her and let the Venture Koloss just kinda sit there until this siege is done and over?

Oh, I forgot to put in quicklinks! Sorry! They're up now.

Oh good, thanks for confirming Dow and Elodin. They were marked as likely, but not certain. Dow had voted for Orlok and PK, so he wasn't Penrod, and Sart voted for him at one point, so I didn't think he was Venture, though that could have been a ruse. Elodin voted or PK too, so not Penrod, and he voted for Aman, so not Venture. That put them both in Lekal. For the rest: Maill claimed Lekal. Maill claimed McKeedee was in Lekal by asking him to vote for Burnt Maill claimed Joe was in Lekal. Stink died to Koloss and our Kandra reported that Lekal only had 2 Koloss while Venture had 4, so that almost certanily meant Venture hit Lekal and killed Stink, putting Stink in Lekal. And our notes guessed you were the faction with 6 from the start, because at the end of Night 1, our Kandra reported Lekal as having 5 Koloss and the other two factions as having 6 Koloss. Also, our notes didn't put anyone else in Lekal. I'm assuming we're right on that? So, yeah, we totally needed a Spiked to tell us what you yourself posted in this thread Hmm, Elb or Sart.... Sart did vote for Dow earlier, but random poke votes early on against eliminators are a pretty solid eliminator tactic so that if the eliminator in question gets killed, they can go "See? I'm totally village, I voted for him!" Dow was certainly not ever at risk of being lynched there. To be clear, I don't think poke voting on an eliminator early on means anything one way or another - it could have been random luck/insight too. But, Sart didn't exactly make a case for Dow being an eliminator, just poke voted and kept it there when Aman claimed Orlok was an elim. Of course, I suppose House Venture all knew that Orlok wasn't an eliminator, but Sart certainly didn't help Aman stay out of the lynch, whereas it looks like Elbereth tried to help save him - she was voting for Orlok from before the claim. I think. I'm not going back over old posts, I'm looking at my vote tally notes. I dunno. Maybe it's the posting only in RP thing, which while cool, makes it hard for me to read Sart's posts, but Elbereth sounds far more legit to me. So, [ Sart ], at least for now. Sorry for not posting for the last day or so - something came up at work, and then it was baby wrangling all night and falling asleep way before I meant to, then baby wrangling all morning X.x Infant Surgebinders are a handful, especially since she's figured out how to stand up (and fall down if not watched/supported/caught).

Finally! Took long enough for us to get a Spiked, and the inquisitor! With STEEL left! Maybe we can turn this around into a victory for Ce.... errr... everyone. Right. Everyone. Quick links: Player list:

Quicklinks have been added to the second post int his thread, if anyone's interested. Rollover happens right after Shallan's bedtime, so I'm almost always on then, so I figured I might as well take it up for now.

Straw, if you wanted to post what you did at the very end, you had 24 hours to do it. I thought we decided we weren't going to unless the other factions did the same. Why would you do it one minute before rollover? Quick links: Player list:

And why would you say this ONE MINUTE before the vote ends?

Also could you please NOT make posts like this?

Could you please NOT make threats like this? Thanks.

Okay, well, no one likes the Con idea because he's so inactive. I guess that's fair. I'm moving my vote back to [ Alvron ] (and [ Conquestor ]).

Maill was trying to get everyone to hit Cett in the thread, but you didn't attack despite being the only faction with a reasonable amount of forces (we had checked Lekal and Venture the prior night and knew they had very, very few between the two of them). I guess he really tried to coordinate the attack via his PM with me, which didn't go so well, given I wasn't actually in Penrod.

Oh, hey, I was just looking through old posts from prior days, and came across something interesting. People wanted to lynch me in part because they thought I was a Penrod who voted for Orlok? Well, what about the Penrod who DID vote for Orlok, and did so very early on, and didn't post after? I'm not too sure on this one though because he's inactive at the moment, but here's the post (okay, 17s is having issues with me copy/pasting the link to the other thread, so I have no idea how this will actually look): http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/54871-long-game-23-the-siege-of-luthadel/?page=19#comment-458480 Why come on, vote randomly for a member of your own faction, and then go away again? And how do I know Con is in Penrod? Because Lekal found out via Kandra and told me both via that coded message from Day 1 and he confirmed it in the PM he set up with me afterward to try to coordinate an attack on Cett (haha, sorry about that, but I didn't ask to be the "face of Penrod!") The only thing is, he says he's been inactive and claims he hasn't read up on stuff. That could be true, or he could be spiked or the inquisitor and active in his doc while saying nothing in thread to lay low. While he's not a great target for being spiked due to apparent inactivity, what about being the inquisitor? Or maybe he was spiked BECAUSE he was mostly inactive on N0, because if voting for Orlok was suspicious, he also voted for PK on Day 1. (PK Vote Link) He twice on two consecutive days voted for a teammate as a random vote, and that teammate ended up dying and not being spiked. If he was a little more active, I'd say that's definitely Spiked behavior, but I dunno with him being so absent. Does anyone know if he's been on the forums in time to put in an order to spike each night? I don't know how to check... And what does Penrod have to say about him? Is he active in your doc at all? Has he never posted in there? In any case, I think I need to vote for him. Finding the spiked should be our top priority, and my vote for Alvron was just reciprocation for the whole "we wanted you to die if anyone went after Penrod so we had you be our voice" thing. [ Alvron ] and [ Conquestor ].

I'm honestly concerned about Alvron. I really don't get why Penrod let me continue like I was, but I'm starting to think it was to confuse matters even more. By having me as a meat shield, all of Penrod's members were protected. What better way to protect spiked in a smaller faction? I'll also point out that Penrod has been hoarding Koloss. They didn't attack anyone last night (we checked) despite insinuating that they were going to hit Cett. Someone did hit Cett - I don't know who, but whomever it was, you didn't get the support from Penrod you were expecting. Why stay so defensive? Because the Spiked don't want Koloss attacks to go through. Random deaths can hit them. Cett hoarded last night because we were afraid of being attacked by 2-3 houses at once. What's Penrod's excuse? So, yeah, [ Alvron ].

Well, there's a simple reason why I voted for Orlok that has nothing to do with the Spiked. Orlok wasn't on my team. See, I'm not actually in Penrod. I don't know why Penrod hasn't called me out, but I just kinda ran with it when someone mistakenly placed me there. I couldn't stop laughing when someone decided I was the "face of Penrod," but no one from Penrod apparently cared to clarify. I figured even if Orlok wasn't actually Spiked, people would go for Aman next anyway, and we'd get two out-of-faction kills. The more kills out of faction, the better we are off in the faction game. I *was* hoping that Orlok was spiked though, and annoyed when he wasn't. And, I already explained that "clearly spiked" thing a while back - it was a visceral reaction to Aman lying about Orlok being spiked. I was honestly annoyed by that, and that was the very first thing I thought and posted upon the writeup going up. I later recanted and said, thinking about it, Aman probably isn't spiked, but someone willing to lie like that was a detriment to the rest of the village. I still stand by that sentiment. So, well, feel free to vote for me, but your arguments as they stand are based on a faulty premise. Yes, I helped get two people killed - they weren't in my faction, and it did help our faction in the faction game.

SD, about what? I mean, it's not a thing to ask in general, but what is it you're even asking me to talk about? The fact that I think we should be trying to find the Spiked and not playing the faction game so closely that we all lose? That looks like a random poke vote, and this late in the game, I'd have expected a bit more in the way of reasoning behind votes. Think about this. The Spiked now have 5 members. How many members do the other factions now have? 7 deaths so far, and 5 spiked, so the other factions now have (27-12)/4 = 4 members each, on average (not counting the Spiked as being in the other factions). The Spiked are now the largest faction. I think it's time we start voicing suspicions on who is spiked and stop playing the faction game. At least until we get rid of some Spiked and they are no longer the largest "house" in the game. (Or tied for the largest, or nearly the largest, or whatever, I don't know if my faction lists are right, but the point stands regardless.)

Well, you DID just try to kill her last night by outing her as Cett by outing yourself as Cett right after people said they wanted to lynch a Cett... Sure, people could have gone after you, but there was at least a 50% chance we'd go for the other person you confirmed as Cett Her reactions make sense to me! And yeah, if you're as inactive in the doc as Burnt has said you are, I can see why they wouldn't think you were spiked. I don't think any of that is particularly suspicious, but I'm starting to wonder about you if you are reading their doc but not posting and apparently claiming you aren't, and then exposing yourself in a way that put the heat on another faction member... Hmm. Also, sorry for not being on last night - after work, I went right to a friend's birthday party and didn't have a chance to log in from there. (I thought I'd be able to log in from the car, but hadn't realized my wife wanted me to drive despite her picking me up.) Apparently, the vote shifted rather dramatically while I was at the party. Sorry I wasn't around to consider moving my vote... but, well, to be frank, we did really want Aman dead for what he pulled, so it's hardly a loss from my standpoint. Yes, it would have been much better to get a Spiked, but my notes have Burnt as just as unlikely to have been spiked as Aman...

Whoops. Shows how well I can read. I saw "protected from a scanning" and thought you meant he was smoked. It's the morning - reading is hard.

I don't follow the logic that if Joe was protected from scanning, he must be Spiked. Even if the Inquisitor started with a Copper spike, I'd be extremely surprised if there weren't true Smokers at the start of the game. Joe could just be a Smoker using his ability. While I think the ability helps the Spiked more than it helps the other factions, perhaps he was Smoking his faction's coinshot or mistborn or lurcher or whatever. Or maybe he IS a coinshot or mistborn or something and their faction has a smoker who was smoking HIM. Either way, I don't feel that a failed seeking is really that damning. If a faction has a smoker, there's really little reason to save up vials to Flare, so why wouldn't they burn copper every turn? While finding a spiked is totally damning, I feel that, like I said before, anything else can be a red heiring as far as the Spiked are concerned. So, to be clear, I'm not saying he ISN'T Spiked, just that what you're using as evidence is super weak. If you want to kill Joe because of his faction though, that's different.

I'm pretty certain it was Venture who attacked Lekal last night, not the other way around, putting Stink in Lekal. Our Kandra reports imply it, and various statements made here corroborate it. I think Aman was getting back at Maill for trying to mobilize people to attack Venture. My understanding of the deaths and knowledge of what my faction did suggests that no one helped Lekal attack Venture, if Lekal attacked at all. Again, sticking with the Aman vote - he's the one person I'm absolutely sure is in Venture, and I would like to hit someone in Venture since they've proven to be a house of lies and murder. Not that we aren't all doing that to some extent, but Venture's lies are protecting the Spiked and their murder is more active than any other house. They're basically coming across to me as a second eliminator faction. Again, I know that technically all three factions that aren't your own are kinda like that, but there's a difference in magnitude so far. I wouldn't be surprised if the Inquisitor is in Venture... EDIT: Semi-ninjaed

That's a really solid game. I don't really like Mafia in person (to make the game go fast, people are random and not logical), but One Night Werewolf means it's supposed to be random, it's over in seconds, there's still some logic in there, and it's surprisingly interesting and fun. I need to get a copy... I've only played with other peoples'. But, given how hard it is to get people in my playgroups to play hidden role games, like BattleStar Galactica and The Resistance, dunno if I could get people to play that one except at parties. Oh, and speaking of hidden role boardgames, "Traitor Mechanic: the Traitor Mechanic Game" is almost out. You are all mechanics trying to repair various things and have to get the parts just right, but one of you is a traitor trying to sabotage the garage and make it go bankrupt. It's by the same people who did "Deck Building: the Deck Building Game" last year (which is a deck building game where you are all building decks, like for houses), and who are also working on "Trick Taking: the Trick Taking Game" (a trick-taking game where you're all magicians trying to steal each other's tricks) and "Time Management: the Time Management Game" (which is an action-management game where you are all time travelers helping rearrange time). I have a fondness for meta jokes.

Holy... wow... Well, like I've said many times, I'm still voting for [ Aman ] for already stated reasons.

Btw, before I forget: coinshots - remember back when Aman said that you should only attack on even turns and then said offhandedly that his faction has no lurcher? Given his willingness to lie to save himself, I have a feeling that his faction DOES have a lurcher, and he wanted people to only attack on even turns so his faction's lurcher could flare iron to protect the most likely target in their faction. Tonight, that's him. It follows from what he did last night, and what's the point of telling people your faction doesn't have a protection role? It serves no purpose, but telling people you have no protection role looking out for you when you do have one does have a purpose. So, I'd bet Aman is protected by flared iron tonight. Just something to keep in mind.

Btw, thanks for confirming your faction for me, Lopen. Looks like my list was correct on that xD Figuring out which faction everyone is in has been a really fun minigame so far. Just like you want to protect Aman because he's a good player in your faction, some of us want to get rid of him because he's a good player who isn't in our faction. But, it wasn't just because he's a good player that I was trying to lynch him - there are plenty of other good players in this game who are also not in my faction. Aman, however, showed that he could mobilize quite a lot of people to do what he wanted as far as the lynch goes. The tieing thing on Day 1 proved that. That makes him not only a good player with every reason to get people on my team killed and the ability to do so, but also a perfect target for a spike. Who do you target when you have a conversion ability? The people with power roles or the people who others listen to. Aman is both, if his claim of being a Seeker is true, though no one has been spiked since his roleclaim. Still, Seekers are great for spikes because they can lie about people being clean who aren't and create false trust, or lie about someone who doesn't have a spike having one which is exactly what happened. I know you won't accept any arguments against a factionmate with a useful role that you want to keep around. But, I do stand by what I've said. Except the "he's definitely spiked" thing - that was a gut reaction to the reveal that he lied about Orlok, posted right after it was revealed. After thinking about it more, I realized that Aman is probably NOT spiked (I'm thinking 50-50 either way right now), or at least, his actions make total sense regardless of whether he is spiked or not. But, even if he ISN'T spiked, I feel that he needs to be lynched for what he pulled. He really can't be trusted in these situations, and a false viewer is dangerous. Yes, if left alive, he could continue to scan people and find the spiked. But, why would any of us believe him now if he did find a spiked? He's proven he has no compunctions against blatantly lying about his scans to get people killed. EDIT: Also, I didn't bandwagon on him. I voted for him Day 1 for reasons I clearly gave, and I continued that vote on Day 2.