Jofwu

@Emerald_Cross Not a normal issue. Sounds like a printing error. You should be able to return it wherever you bought it from for a new copy.

As best I can tell, this Category was meant as a way to capture certain types of redirect pages. I think I've convinced @Joe ST that they aren't necessary on full articles that already have distinct categories? So I've gone ahead and removed the tag from those pages.

This is an interesting thought. Would love to see a deep analysis on how Syl has affected Kaladin's relationships so far. I expect you could make arguments either way. After all, it was Syl who snapped Kaladin out of being totally shut down and disconnected early in TWoK. Where's the line between her being a crutch that Kaladin becomes dependent on versus a crutch that helps him heal so he can walk on his own? Particularly with regard to Kaladin opening up to others.

That's a really good thought. I guess I tend to imagine him working through his problems with Syl. I don't want to see a romance come along to uplift him, but an intimate friendship? That would be fantastic. I'm on board with this. If we're assuming that this proposed intimate relationship will happen with somebody who Kaladin already has an budding intimate relationship with then, yeah, our pool of candidates isn't very large. But I tend to suspect that we'd see this relationship develop in book 4, and so from that point of view it could practically be... almost anybody. I think you're a bit too quick to dismiss Tarah on that basis. She could definitely show back up and build an intimate relationship with Kaladin. I'm skeptical that their failure to do this in the past implies they are incapable of having that. Kaladin's in a different place now. Maybe he's ready for it in a way that he simply wasn't then. That said, I don't like Tarah for this role because I simply think it would be hard to separate things from their romantic past. I'd much rather see this relationship provided by... a member of Bridge Four? Adolin? But I don't mean to turn the conversation in that direction. Ultimately the thread is about Kaladin's love life.

Hmmm, well... I agree that he doesn't have to become "perfect" before moving on to romance. Didn't mean to imply that. Well said. But I disagree very much that Tarah just wasn't the one. Maybe, sure. But the whole point of the flashback in Oathbringer was to show that he hadn't found a balance. It was to point out that Kaladin's inability to let go of certain things was holding back his development. You don't just magically find a balance when the "right one" comes along. His inability to find a balance with Tarah at that particular time doesn't mean she wasn't the right one. It means Kaladin wasn't ready. And I think Tarah made the wise decision not to chase after a guy who wasn't ready for romance on the off chance that he came around one day. There was love, and it wasn't strong enough, yes. That doesn't mean it couldn't become stronger after they (particularly Kaladin) have had some time to grow a bit. "Because men make mistakes when they’re young and angry." Ultimately, my point about him overcoming certain things before finding romance is about how I really do NOT want a girl to come along and "fix" Kaladin. If he gets into some romantic relationship BEFORE certain aspects of his character development milestones have been reached and THEN he reaches those milestones, I'm afraid it's going to feel like she came along and fixed him. I just want to avoid that, basically. Yeah, I was a bit lazy in describing Kaladin's issues perhaps. Depression is largely what's going on with Kaladin. I stand by the mention of "obsessions" though. The point is simply that those obsessions are rooted in his depression. I focus on that behavior rather than the depression itself because I don't at all want to say that Kaladin needs to heal from his depression before he's able to have a romantic relationship. Back to the whole first point here. I'm not saying he has to "get better" first. I'm saying I don't think he has shown that he's ready to balance a romantic relationship yet, and that he needs to reach a place where he can let some things go before he is. The depression is behind all of it, absolutely. I just don't think we can expect THAT whole issue to be whisked away before he's ready. I could be wrong, but the way I read it, that's the joke.

He certainly doesn't need one. And I'd much prefer that, if he does get one, it comes after he has developed a bit more. Specifically, I think he needs to learn to let go of his obsession with keeping his men safe before he's ready for that. I hope that he gets one because it seems like something he has interest in. And because it would be a symbol of healing, given what happened with Tarah. (inability to balance romantic relationship with his obsessions)

Lots of very good ideas. So far we've had Szeth, Eshonai, and Venli. In other words, Brandon keeps using these to develop future flashback/main characters who aren't interacting with the main narrative(s). That makes me lean towards assuming he will go with Lift, Taln, or Ash. Taravangian and Moash also make a lot of sense to me for similar reasons. Important characters that we're perhaps not going to see much of otherwise. I can also see Navani or Renarin taking the spot. Azure is a really fun idea. I can't decide if Brandon thinks we're ready for a strong Worldhopper PoV or not... A one-off Zahel interlude was one thing. A whole series of them is another level. My money is on Lift or Moash.

Oh, I see now. Just misunderstood. Sorry.

I assume he will probably have at least some of Bridge Four with him. Just didn't really mention them since the conversation is more focused on the main, PoV characters involved. I think you're misinterpreting that slightly. It's the arc itself that he labels "primary"--not the characters who take part in that story arc.

I agree with @Pagerunner's approach at choosing the 9 characters Brandon is referring to, though I wouldn't write off Lift... Who would be included at the expense of Renarin, Adolin, or Navani. Probably Navani in my opinion, of those three, but it's a toss up. What do these ten characters probably have in store? Kaladin - I don't think we have too many clues from Oathbringer concerning specific things Kaladin needs to do next aside from swearing the 4th Ideal, and that could happen in countless ways. But the Lirin PoV gives some big clues for what Brandon's planning I think, despite the fact that he has trashed it. With Alethkar occupied and the Coalition in control of Jah Keved, there's bound to be conflict in the region around their northern border. The Herdazian general is apparently involved with what's happening there... and so is Kaladin. It makes a lot of sense that Kaladin would have a team that's active in the area. Shallan - I think we're going to see a lot of interaction between her and Adolin, her [proto-] squires, and her brothers. She and Pattern noticed that Shadesmar is "weird" in some way around urithiru, and I'd be surprised if she weren't involved in following up on that. This points at Shallan in Urithiru. I also think she's going to have more dealings with the Ghostbloods in book 4, and they've asked her to get in contact with Sja-anat. Not sure how she can do this while stuck in Urithiru... So maybe her brothers won't matter as much and she'll be headed out into the field. Hard to predict where Sja-anat will be next though. Dalinar - Dalinar's role will apparently be downplayed in book 4, and that's not surprising. He'll be busy politicking and establishing his refounded Knights Radiant. Venli - I see Kaladin mentioned as a pairing for her, but I have a hard time seeing how that would work out. I think Venli will primarily be among the singers, which isn't really a safe space for... any of the other characters. I feel pretty strongly about this though. I think her role in the story is to lead her people in a rebellion against Odium and the Fused. It's possible that she'll run off and then return to do this later... But I think it's more likely that she will have plenty to do where she's at. It's possible we'll see some battlefield interactions, but Venli's not much of a fighter. Part of me wonders if Moash could be one of the 9 characters, because I can definitely see her interacting with him. (and we do need to keep tabs on Moash) I've seen her mother and Rlain thrown out as pairings, but neither of these would be a main character, whether they interact or not. Szeth - He swore his oath to go after the Shin, but that's certainly going to have to wait until book 5. He could be hanging around Dalinar, but if Dalinar asks him to do something he's going to go do that. He does probably need some setup for book 5, but who knows what form that takes beyond a bit of screen time. I don't see him having anything interesting to do while stuck with Dalinar in Urithiru. I think he'll be out with one of the other two groups. Lift - Not much to go on with her either. Definitely an easy argument to make that she's mostly sidelined as a PoV character. Renarin - We need to explore the nature of Renarin and Glys to some extent. On one hand, that could happen anywhere. On the other hand, who better to pair him with than the girl who's supposed to seek out Sja-anat? Shallan/Renarin road trip? Jasnah - I've seen lots of people wishing to see her go off on some awesome adventure, but she's the queen of Alethkar now. I'm not convinced she has time or freedom to go skipping across Roshar, putting her life at risk. I put her firmly in Urithiru, doing politics and figuring out how to "fix" the city. She'll definitely make some Shadesmar trips in or around the city, so it won't just be meetings for her. Adolin - Brandon has suggested that he hasn't escaped the consequences of killing Sadeas yet, so perhaps this will come back to play--and that likely means being in Urithiru. He's also a Highprince, which means he's on a short leash like Jasnah. We also need to see some Adolin-Shallan interaction, but I don't suppose Brandon will bend the story out of shape to keep them together. There's not a lot here requiring him to be a PoV character though. Navani - Another Urithiru character, I assume. Her interest in fabrials makes her a likely candidate to help out with the city/Sibling mystery, and I don't see her going far from Dalinar. I don't see any reason for her to be a PoV character for this, however. So how to put all of this together? I have to agree that Lift seems least likely to be a main character of the ten listed. Navani, Adolin, and Renarin seem next most likely to be sidelined. We've got several characters who are likely to hang out in Urithiru, so it's easy to imagine the 4-PoV primary arc will be here. Dalinar and Jasnah are definitely here in my opinion. Navani is also definitely here, though hard to feel certain about her position as a major PoV character. Shallan, Adolin, and Renarin could have things to do here. Szeth and Lift could be thrown into the pile. I've got a little bit of hesitancy to assume this is the primary arc though, because humans stuck in Urithiru doesn't sound particularly... dynamic and exciting. Great content... but the primary arc of the book? Hmmm... Two options for Venli. She's either deep in singer territory, and probably interacting just with Moash (these two forming the 2-PoV tertiary arc)... OR she's closer to the front lines and somehow interacting with humans there. Everything I've noted above under Kaladin DOES make me feel very strongly that he will be very busy in northwest Alethkar / northeast Jah Keved / Herdaz. I'm not entirely sure who will be sent with him, however. Adolin is a pretty good option. Makes plenty of sense that he'd be on the frontlines trying to take Alethkar back. And he's got a lot of chemistry with Kaladin. Szeth is another good option, given his fighting ability and the fact that he can keep up with Kaladin. Could toss Lift or Renarin here, I suppose. I think it would also be good to step back from the characters for a moment and take in the bigger picture. I haven't mentioned anything concerning the western half of Roshar, which perhaps feels like a big oversight. Then again, as much as I want to see more of these nations, I wouldn't be surprised if our time there is limited yet again. The Dalinar (or others) could make a few minor field trips away from Urithiru if necessary. I can see a lot of information about the Makabak region coming second hand. (i.e., conversations and reports from the Azish) Everything more towards the northwest has largely been a mystery all along, so not surprising if we continue to get little from there for now. We've also got interludes to help keep us on top of these areas. So I don't see a big problem here. However, I DO think we need to see the Horneater Peaks. These are very important to the defense of Jah Keved, and Oathbringer made it abundantly clear that something is happening there. It's been a whole year since the Battle of Thaylen Field. Our characters HAVE to handle... whatever's going on there, in the next book. With all of this in mind, I've got two propositions: OPTION 1 Primary Arc Who: Venli, Kaladin, Adolin, and Szeth Where: frontlines the northern Jah Keved / Alethkar / Herdaz Lots of direct human-singer conflict. Venli gets to see her people thrust in the middle of a somewhat reluctant war, and Kaladin is a good, empathetic person for her to run into here and there. Adolin-Kaladin chemistry will be on point. Szeth is maybe a bit out of place... I'm looking forward to the Kaladin-Moash confrontation(s). Secondary Arc Who: Dalinar, Jasnah, Navani Where: Urithiru Politics, Knights Radiant rebuilding, and the Urithiru restoration project. Tertiary Arc Who: Shallan and Renarin Where: Horneater Peaks Wild speculation here, but I like it so I'm sticking with it! Word is that that strange spren are starting to pop up around the Horneater Peaks, on top of the other weirdness going on there. Shallan and Renarin, escorted by Rock and some of Bridge Four, are sent to investigate. OPTION 2 Primary Arc Who: Dalinar, Jasnah, Shallan (and someone else... Adolin, Navani, Renarin, Szeth, Lift?) Where: Urithiru Politics, Knights Radiant rebuilding, and the Urithiru restoration project. Not entirely sure how to connect Shallan with her Ghostblood activities while she's here, but presumably some of that. Secondary Arc Who: Kaladin (and... others. Szeth, Adolin, Renarin, Lift?) Where: frontlines between Jah Keved and Alethkar, including Horneater Peaks Area is maybe too broad to be reasonable, but it might work. The "who" here is a big toss up. In fact, it's possible that this is even swapped with the primary arc. Tertiary Arc Who: Venli, Moash Where: singer territory We're deep in singer territory, dealing with mostly internal singer issues.

It should increase the force/acceleration--not the mass of the object. Increasing the mass wouldn't [directly] make things accelerate faster and isn't really in line with what gravity... does. You're mixing up mass and weight at the end though. A given mass will weigh twice as much if you apply twice as much force/acceleration to it. A double lashing makes something twice as heavy AND makes it fall faster. What it doesn't do is increase the mass of the thing.

Tarah! I know this isn't everyone's first choice, and we know so little about her... But I don't think Brandon has been planting the Tarah seeds for no reason. It's totally possible that she's just a throwaway character who serves to flesh out Kaladin's back story and love life. My gut tells me that Brandon has plans for her. I'm absolutely convinced that she's in Urithiru, which suggests she has a role to play in the future. Meanwhile, Oathbringer directly connected her to Kaladin's 4th Ideal struggles. My prediction is that Brandon will have them meet up in book 4 and rekindle their friendship. He will develop her character a bit for our benefit while he uses her (and her past with Kaladin) to explore some of Kaladin's issues. MAYBE things will turn romantic by the end of the book, but I tend to think we won't see romance come back into their relationship until book 5. If I can be even MORE bold with wild speculation... I believe Tarah moved to Mourn's Vault after leaving Kaladin, which is on the border of Alethkar and Herdaz, and that means she has connections up there. The [now scrapped] Lirin PoV that Brandon read, along with his commentary on the rest of the chapter, suggests that this region, particularly the Herdazian miilitary, will be important in the book 4 story. So, wild speculation: Kaladin will spend most of book 4 helping shore up defenses in this region. Tarah will be sent with his team because of some connection(s) that she has. (e.g. maybe she knows this Herdazian general personally)

I think the burden of leadership is going to be a heavy theme. Definitely agree that Venli is going to have to step up as a leader among her people. I think it's notable that Eshonai was in a really difficult position. She wanted to protect her people, but she DIDN'T want to be at war. This will surely play into Venli's themes as well.

Brandon corroborated Amazon's June release date for Volume 3 in the SA4 update yesterday.

I added a comment from Ben recently about the Urithiru artwork, and there's the bridge schematics that he's done. Just to say that I wouldn't be surprised if he's got something else notable buried in there somewhere.

Mr. Vorinirov

I've been itching to do a quick update post on my Stormlight Archive Timeline as I've hit a big milestone. In my last post on the timeline I mentioned wanting to convert from a spreadsheet to a database. And I've done it! Link to the newest version: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zq5bJoKE83ggDCjH43i1hZi0CIpB2iAx7v37zQPVFK0 Back End Changes Previously, every entry in the timeline utilized a single row in the spreadsheet. This put some restrictions on how the date was calculated and it meant my list of sources were jammed together. In my database I've broken everything down into three tables. An "event" is simply some event that occurs (along with a category for sorting and any book chapters that the event occurs in). Next is a table of "intervals" which define the number of days (and any range of error) between two events. Lastly is a table of "sources" which link any relevant sources and my notes to each interval. Now I can make a date dependent on multiple intervals (it uses the average, more or less). This is very useful for something like Gavilar's assassination, where we several potential date ranges based on different sources. The database is able to find the average date and the overlapping error range so that we get something as specific as possible. I can also create a new record for every source I use, which makes them a lot easier to organize and sort through. One downside is that I simply have a local copy of the database, and updating is a manual process. If I make changes, I have to export new spreadsheets and paste them in on top of the old copies. This isn't as bad as it sounds though, because I wanted to separate the presentation from the calculations regardless. The final product now is mostly just text, which means the Google Sheet loads up and operates a lot faster. Conditional formatting slows it down, but that was going to be there regardless. (And I can always spit out an unformatted version for maximum speed.) It also means you can use Ctrl+F to atually search the document, which is super helpful! Front End Changes In this latest version I've added a few more events than I had previously, and made a few corrections. All small stuff for the most part. The most notable additions are some Pre-History events which are very speculative. But we DID get some more details on the Desolations via WoB, and after some good conversation in the "History of Roshar" Shardcasts, I felt like there was enough information for it not to look stupid. I've also added a few "filter" options. Under the "Spoiler Filter" sheet you can check/uncheck boxes to control which event categories are displayed. Theoretically this can be used to hide spoilers, though obviously you can use that however you want. More interesting is a filter (in the top right corner) which allows users to filter out events that are below different levels of "confidence". The color of event ID numbers gives a hint at how confident I am in their date. Something marked 1 is absolutely known with explicit support while something marked 5 was pulled out of thin air for the sake of putting something on the timeline. You can now use this little dropdown to hide events below a confidence threshhold. One other change is that the event numbers act as hyperlinks to cells on other sheets. If you click the event ID number for something on the timeline, it will pop you over onto that event's row(s) on the References sheet. So you can instantly jump over and see what sources were used to nail down each event. Lastly, there's an Ages sheet, which lists the age of each character (with a known age) next to each event. The Ages column on the Timeline sheet references these numbers, though it can also be used if you want to directly compare characters side by side. Future Plans I've still got some Oathbringer events missing, so the next notable update will happen whenever I can finish those off. Many of those that are missing simply didn't have enough information (that I could find) to place the event. The good news is that Tor's Oathbringer reread posts have been listing dates for each chapter based on the gamma read timeline. I'm not assuming these are canonical, but they make for a great basis in lieu of something more specific. So I'm currently working through these, trying to reconcile our timelines. The bad news is that the Tor Reread only moves at 1 or 2 chapters per week, and they're only about 2/3 through the book! Also, I don't agree with every date provided. There are occaisional small discrepancies that I think will need to be adjusted on Karen's end (and other cases where mine need adjusting, but that's easy to fix...). In and of itself this isn't a big deal. The problem is that I don't know how the gamma timeline is CONNECTED, so if one date is wrong I have no way of knowing how a change there will impact subsequent dates. So it's going to be a while before (1) Tor's Reread reaches the end of the book and (2) I am able to finish filling in my timeline with that information. Most of the holes in my timeline are from Part 4, so I'm looking forward to that. I very well may update my timeline periodically, if I feel like I've added/changed anything significant. I will update the version number in the spreadsheet's title when I do this. But I likely won't mention those updates here or in the forums as it will just be dates added/changed. When I AM totally caught up I will probably update my timeline post in the forums. I'll also probably make another blog post that covers any discrepancies I think I've found, either with the gamma timeline or with contradictions in the book itself.

Audio is up and linked.

That's a good point. Those numbers were based on a comment from Ben McSweeney that the stories of Urithiru are 15 feet along with a line from Dalinar that the roof is 100 [Rosharan] yards across. So I'm taking the height of the tower on the drawing we got in pixels to get a scale that you can then use on the roof. But the size of the roof is a bit tricky to measure, the drawing might not be perfect, and Dalinar's phrase is probably not meant to be taken as precise. If the roof is 90 yards across and everything else is perfect you get 6 Rosharan feet = 6'-9" which is more reasonable. Point being... Yeah, take that speculation as a grain of salt.

I definitely tend to think the stone is modified by Surges to be stronger. There's a reason that mountain peaks do not typically exist with the slenderness of a skyscraper. There's a reason that kilometer high shear cliffs are very rare. Even if massive walls and clever arches can handle it's own weight, the wind forces on something at this altitude are going to be insane. In other news... I posted the above on Reddit as well and got the following response from Ben McSweeney (the artist behind these sketches): I'm not quite sure how those numbers fit, as I think 6 feet for the human was on the low side and this would imply an even shorter figure. Or I guess you could argue the size of the chasmfiend isn't 1:1, or... something... In any case, Ben's word (assuming he remembers correctly) is more valid than my guessing. 15 feet as the story height would mean that all of the linear dimensions above should be 82% of what I gave, and all of the area measurements should be 68%.

Difference in time measurements: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/blogs/entry/633-rosharan-time-measurements/ Haven't been able to dig into this yet but... Some recent info about the size of Urithiru suggests that 100 Rosharan yards is about 380 (Earth) feet. If there's 300 Rosharan feet per Rosharan yard that means their feet are about 27% larger than ours. There's uncertainty, speculation, and a bit of error in that however.

They affect categorization. So if the {{character}} infobox is used they will be tagged as a Character (and so on). Categories listed at the bottom of the page. Beyond that, I'm not sure there's any benefit to making this clear at the top of the page, as it should be readily apparent to readers whether the article is about a person, place, thing, etc.

Bringing this back from the dead after a conversation on Discord tonight. If you look closely on Shallan's sketch of Urithiru you'll notice a 3ish story tall Chasmfiend on the right side of the page to give a sense of scale. In Words of Radiance, Shallan was kind enough to draw a Chasmfiend with a human for scale. I could swear someone has pointed this out before, and maybe done the math, but I can't find it anywhere and I figure it should be documented somewhere. (like here) These are rough numbers obviously, but they should get us in the ballpark... Calculating the Height A chasmfiend is about 8 humans tall. If we figure a typical Rosharan male is about 6 feet tall that gives us a 48 foot tall chasmfiend. Urithiru is about 68.5 chasmfiends tall. At 48 feet per chasmfiend that's 3,288 feet tall. That's right folks. Exactly 1 kilometer tall. Bravo to @ccstat (and everyone else who contributed) because this is exactly what we concluded in this thread. That's 5.55 meters (18.2 feet) per floor by the way. Balconies and Roof Now the other views on this sheet are slightly different scales, so I had to do a few more comparisons between them. But here's what I came up with for the balconies, units in meters First thing to highlight is that we misinterpreted Szeth's comments about balconies extending outward on each floor (or it was retconned). It's pretty clear that the face of each tier is relatively vertical. Concerning the "balconies" for each tier... The final conclusion here (looking at the first post) was 50 meters per tier, which gives you 450 meters of extension from balconies. I'm getting 690, though of course that's with the lower balconies much larger than those at the top. Also worth pointing out that they seem to get a bit more narrow closer to the mountains on either side. The "roof" has a radius of about 70 meters (diameter = 140m = 460 ft). Dalinar said it was about 100 [Rosharan] yards across. So we've got about 1.4 meters per Rosharan yard? That's 4.6 feet. Perhaps there are 5 Rosharan feet per Rosharan yard, which sounds like the kind of numbers they'd use. And then 10 inches per foot. That would make their inches about 10% longer, their feet 6% shorter, and their yards 50% longer than ours. (give or take, depending on the error in this whole process) Oh, and not pictured here both the Oathgate platforms come to 200 meters across. This conflicts with the statement that they are "several hundred yards across", as they're only about 40% further across than the tower roof. Farmland and living space I measured square pixels for each floor on the plan view. These are particularly rough, but again it should give at least a sense of what's going on. For total roof/balcony area, I'm getting 20.3 million square feet = 466 acres = 1.9 square km. Anyone know a thing or two about farming, because I sure don't. A quick Google search tells me the overall, worldwide average for humans is 0.5 acres of cropland per person. That's not good news for the Urithiru residents, because that suggests they can only support about 900 people... And that's assuming all of that area is for farming. (looks to me like there are buildings on much of it.) They've got more land to use outside the city. They can grow food in their balconies. I don't see how any of these would EVER been enough to make Urithiru self-sufficient though. Yikes. In terms of overall space (roofs balconies plus interior space, at 18 floors per tier) I'm getting a little bit over 1 billion square feet = 24k acres = 97 square km. Burj Khalifa apparently has 3.6 million square feet of floor space, so Urithiru has about 290 times as much space. I'm also seeing that Burj Khalifa is designed for about 900 people to live in it. If we use the same ratio that would put a 260,000 cap on the population in terms of living space. I have no clue how much of that skyscraper is residential vs commercial, so I'm not sure how valid that comparison is. With Urithiru you're going to have a lot of space required for government/military, commercial, and even some light industrial work. But we're also dealing with different societies in different settings. I'm sure the Kholin barracks pack people in a lot tighter than fancy skyscraper apartments. And that order of magnitude doesn't look completely unreasonable, right? If I'm off by a factor of four and it can fit a million people, that's London in 1800 (one of the biggest cities in the world at the time, I think) Seems like the Alethi are using most of the first two floors, right? Those account for 28% of the total area. In TWoK chapter 22 Dalinar comments that there are 150,000 troops together in all of the warcamps. So the total population of the warcamps was maybe 400,000? Is that reasonable? They took losses over the first two books, and only 8/10 highprinces moved into the tower. That would put the current population of the tower at about 300,000. If it can hold 1 million then they're using something on the order of 28%. So when it comes to food they're in trouble. Living space will maybe work. Unless I'm missing something? I'm ignoring the basement levels of the tower completely, of course. Anything else that needs looking at?