Kingsdaughter613

Not necessarily. Depression really doesn’t work that way. It’s misery despite positive stimuli. Medication and CBT are more likely to help than Lirin suddenly approving of his son’s choices - and Lirin shouldn’t have to. He shouldn’t have to change his personality or his beliefs for someone else’s benefit. Nevermind that Lirin was right; being a soldier was bad for Kal - which is what Lirin’s problem really is. Kal has plenty of other people who can give him the approval he needs. And Lirin strikes me as very much the sort to support and approve of his son going to therapy; just by nature he isn’t the right person to give Kal emotional support. They’re too much alike, and Lirin has a rather cool personality.

Untreated depression will likely get worse. Currently he has depression without a trigger. He has chronic depression, which is cyclical, comorbid with SAD, which is seasonal. Without the genetic predisposition, he would likely not have depression at all.

This wouldn’t even be an embryo. Think of it like an IUD, preventing the potential pregnancy from implanting. Also, baby wouldn’t get a cognitive self until it can think, which doesn’t happen until brain development begins. Personally, I think avoiding Cosmere healing until late pregnancy would be wise.

Yes, and I like him better now that he’s acknowledging the depression, instead of blaming it on external factors.

Kaladin’s depression appears to be biologically based, exacerbated by environmental factors. This is evidenced by its early onset, prior to the majority of his issues with his father.

No, that’s PTSD. Which is probably also somewhat predicated on genetics...

The problem is that I know people who went through worse than he did - and they reacted better. Then again, the mindset needed to survive 2000 years of persecution isn’t the typical one. I don’t think, for example, Kaladin would be able to hold his wedding, followed by six days of parties, if either of his parents died the morning of. But that’s exactly what my community does - and I know of cases where it’s happened. I’ve been to some of those weddings! (And then people wonder why we’re still holding weddings...) So yes, once Kal’s life was better in WoR, I wanted him to stop thinking about all the bad things that happened to him all the time. How can you move forward if you keep looking back? Sure, the past hurts. But stop harping on it! Mourn your brother on the anniversary of his death, not every day! Do you really think that’s what he’d want? Of course not! Just... deal and move on. For a good chunk of WoR, Kal was miserable not because of any particular event, but because he was depressed. But he wasn’t acknowledging that, and I didn’t know he was, and it came across as very whiny to me. In OB I knew, but I didn’t much enjoy it. I also found it whiny because I was going through my own trauma (see: daughter almost dying) and reacting in a completely different way. I think that’s when Mistborn became so dear to me though, as there I can find characters who work through things the same way as me - by surviving and moving forward. I liked Kaladin just fine in WoK. I found his insistence on replaying his trauma after annoying. I have trouble understanding the concept of stopping mentally. If my family had done that, we wouldn’t exist. And I think, historically, that need to keep pushing forward was better understood. If everyone ‘stopped’ the way Kal does every time a child died young, humanity would have died out long ago. So general opinion: I don’t like characters who continually harp on their trauma in the way Kal did - and I don’t much care for RL people who do either. I like characters who take their traumas and turn it into strength. I like characters who acknowledge how their traumas shape them, without overly dwelling on them. I like characters who can keep moving forward and, failing that, characters where the narrative is at least honest about why they can’t. Now the narrative is being honest about Kaladin’s depression, and he has clearly developed a trauma disorder. And, for the first time since WoK, it feels like he’s finally going to move forward. No, I don’t think he really moved forward much in WoR and OB. He’s never moved on from his trauma. We spent two books with him stuck in place, unable to move forward while he, and the narrative, placed the blame on external, as opposed to internal, factors. You can’t help someone who won’t admit what’s wrong, even if that someone is yourself. Now that Kal is being honest, he can move forward. It makes a nice parallel to Shallan, actually, as she’s both admitting (through Veil and Radiant) and denying (through ‘Shallan’) her problem. Kaladin acknowledges his trauma, but it took until now for him to admit that it wasn’t the situations in and of themselves that were causing his continuing misery and begin the path to recovery. Shallan acknowledges that her refusal to confront and deal with her trauma is causing her problems, but refuses to face what those traumas are, exacerbating her problems. Meanwhile, Dalinar faced his trauma and owned it and moved forward, though it took some divine intervention to do it. Let’s hope the other two can manage a more mundane version. Well, Kal anyway. Kaladin is not a child soldier. He was 22 (in our years) in WoKs and 17 (by our count, if I’m recalling correctly) when he joined the army. Until recently 14 to 16 was considered adulthood for most of the world. It still IS in large portions of the world. Lafayette was 17, for example, same as Kal. John Quincy was clerking in Russia, alone, at 14. A little earlier, and you’ll find younger. There were 16 year olds fighting in WW2; many lied and claimed they were 18. And Adolin is just as much of a child soldier - more so, because Adolin started younger. So is Dalinar. So are a whole lot of Alethi, particularly the lighteyes. So were Vin and Spook in Mistborn, for that matter. So are most soldiers throughout human history. I think they’d all be offended at being considered child soldiers. They just have a different concept of adulthood. Adolescence is really a very new idea, and did not exist for most of history. I would not consider someone a child soldier unless they are considered a child by the standards of their society. You do realize that noble Alethi kids are taught to fight from when they’re, like, six, right? Like the RL noble children often were? Unless you’re considering every other lighteyes a child soldier (with considerably more merit) then Kal certainly doesn’t count. And if you do consider them all child soldiers, well, then Kaladin doesn’t really have any more cause to complain than any other...

I think Stormlight is ‘healing’ any pregnancy before it can develop.

And, weirdly, I liked him better here, where he’s admitting that he’s unhappy for no reason. I did not like it when he blamed his unhappiness on his situation, because I kept going ‘oh, grow up. I know people who have gone through worse and come out better than you.’ (I know quite a few Holocaust survivors.) I really hate it when people do that. I’m the person who turned to my father, while my daughter was possibly dying on a trauma table and said, “We will make something good of this.” And now wants to work in Child Life because of that experience. (My daughter lived, btw. But we all thought she was going to die for a week.) It drove me absolutely nuts that Kaladin kept harping on everything wrong in his life instead of moving forward, because it’s the exact opposite of the way I think. But admitting he’s miserable because of something in himself? Not external factors? That’s a level of honesty we haven’t really seen from him. It’s an important acknowledgment, because Kal is someone who lies to himself quite a lot. So now... NOW I can empathize with him. Before he was just a whiny kid who needed to grow up. Now it feels like he finally IS. I liked him better here than I have since WoR.

Kaladin is depressed because of genetics. His father isn’t helping, but the depression is biological.

Those works are more properly considered manners novels. They were written as contemporary works, not as period ones. It was only later that they were considered ‘Regency’. They are Regency in the same way Byron and the Shelleys are Regency; they wrote during that time. However, I doubt most people would consider Frankenstein ‘Regency’, despite it being written in 1818! Austin is considered one of the best known authors of manners novels. Her books should be looked at as 19th century contemporary, as opposed to period, which is generally viewed as a work written after the time period it portrays. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novel_of_manners Georgette Heyer essentially invented the Regency Romance as a genre. She was deeply inspired by Ms. Austin and the manners novel, which comes across clearly. When I said Regency, I was referring to the Regency Romance (which is not necessarily romantic), which are often simply referred to as Regency, or Regency novels. Today when people say Regency, they are usually thinking of the romance, not period-contemporary works like Frankenstein. Because Austin’s work greatly inspired Heyer, and Heyer deeply influenced our perspective on the genre, Austin often gets mistakenly added in. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regency_romance Unless you’re the rare person who goes “Oh, Frankenstein!” or “Prometheus Unbound!” when they hear the term ‘Regency novel’ we’re not talking about Austin. And as much as I love Byron and the Shelleys, they aren’t who I mean by ‘Regency.’

You spike him in the Cognitive realm, just like you probably would a Spren.

Kaladin is likely reacting to the lack of Stormlight during the weeping actually. And we should probably stop discussing this because A: this is the Mistborn forum and B: I can’t continue without violating Shard policies. PM me if you’d like to continue.

Austin didn’t write Regency; she wrote Manners novels. Georgette Heyer invented the Regency, using Austin as inspiration. She wrote 70 odd novels, of which most are awesome and the rest are good or decent. Basically anything Georgian/Regency is great. Also, not every romance writer is recommended reading by military academies... (Apparently ‘An Infamous Army’ is one of the most accurate depictions of Waterloo out there. I have it as a historical reference.)

He was pretty badly off near the end of OB. His depression is cyclical. A lot depends where in the cycle he is when I meet him but, judging by his nature, he’s not showing up until it’s so bad someone MAKES him. And he’ll probably insist he doesn’t need help. Also, my grandfather went through those camps, survived alongside his brother, then had his brother die immediately after. He picked up his brother’s body and walked from the Russian side to the American side through an active war zone. Oh, and he had been deported in 1937. What Kaladin goes through is NOTHING compared to what he did. He came out considerably healthier psychologically than Kal has ever been. (He’s the person I brought up before, btw.) What Kal went through is NOTHING compared to what the survivors did, and I do not believe he could have survived what they did, if only because he would have spoken up and been shot dead for it. Kaladin is suicidal because he has depression, not because he went through what he did. The other members of Bridge 4 went through the same, but they aren’t suicidal. They don’t find themselves despairing for no reason. And that’s the point. Depression makes a person feel miserable (or angry) for NO reason, in-spite of outside stimuli. Kal does not have PTSD from running the bridge, btw. And neither do most of his bridge. They’ve turned that trauma into strength, for the most part. They’re proud of what they’ve gone through. Except Kal, who isn’t fully capable of doing that, and his inability stems more from his depression than anything else. He was showing signs of developing PTSD in OB though.

I think this is very possible, especially considering Scadrial and Nalthis were specifically brought up. Of course, so was Taldain, but Shallan didn’t mention it in this chapter.

Read more Regency novels. There are a lot of Adolins there. It’s where his character archetype, the Corinthian, comes from.

Aren’t we all.

Thanks for the compliment. This just happens to be my field; my BA is in psych and I’m working on a MA in Creative Arts Therapy. The therapist you saw likely did not specialize in Child Life. Child life is working with chronically ill and dying children, and their families. It’s generally considered one of the hardest fields due to the emotional toll. Sadly, it’s also really necessary. I’ve wanted to go into this field since my older daughter almost died and I spent a two months with her in PICU. BTW, perfect example of how a traumatic situation does not result in long term trauma and can actually result in positive growth.

I love reading Kell’s point of views. They make a refreshing contrast to Kaladin’s. I prefer characters who don’t let grief stop them and keep moving forward instead of dwelling on the past. Also SH is a trickster story, and I love trickster myths.

You’re welcome! The ‘interferes with functioning’ thing is so important to psychologists and therapists, but outside the field it tends to be ignored. If Wayne came to view his inability to use guns as a problem I’d probably treat it like a phobia to a certain extent, but also try and work on his deep seated guilt issues. I probably would not go at it as though I were treating PTSD. As opposed to Kal, who I would a) have to determine whether or not to call an ambulance for, followed by b: get him on an appropriate anti-depressant regimen - with MONITORING. (Seriously, I’m not letting him out of my office UNLESS he’s going to in-patient psyche.) Once his depression is somewhat under control we can begin dealing with his trauma issues. Wax is the one I’d want to work with though. Grief counseling is where I’d like to practice someday, though my specific preference is Child Life.

Wayne does not, on the grounds that his trauma is not interfering with his ability to function in his daily life. That is one of the necessary diagnostic factors in most mental health issues. Note G in the following, which is where a lot of people slip up. You can have all the symptoms of PTSD, and still not have it if G does not apply. I do not consider being unable to use a gun an example of G. I would consider Wayne to have deep set trauma and guilt issues, as well as numerous maladaptive behavioral tendencies. I would probably utilize some form of CBT type therapy with him, and there would likely be considerable overlap with treatment for someone I would diagnose with PTSD. Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence in one (or more) of the following ways: Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s). Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others. Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent or accidental. Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains; police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse). Note: Criterion A4 does not apply to exposure through electronic media, television, movies, or pictures, unless this exposure is work related. Presence of one (or more) of the following intrusion symptoms associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred: Recurrent, involuntary, and intrusive distressing memories of the traumatic event(s). Note: In children older than 6 years, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the traumatic event(s) are expressed. Recurrent distressing dreams in which the content and/or affect of the dream are related to the traumatic event(s). Note: In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content. Dissociative reactions (e.g., flashbacks) in which the individual feels or acts as if the traumatic event(s) were recurring. (Such reactions may occur on a continuum, with the most extreme expression being a complete loss of awareness of present surroundings.) Note: In children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur in play. Intense or prolonged psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s). Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s). Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by one or both of the following: Avoidance of or efforts to avoid distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s). Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people, places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that arouse distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s). Negative alterations in cognitions and mood associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following: Inability to remember an important aspect of the traumatic event(s) (typically due to dissociative amnesia, and not to other factors such as head injury, alcohol, or drugs). Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world (e.g., “I am bad,” “No one can be trusted,” “The world is completely dangerous,” “My whole nervous system is permanently ruined”). Persistent, distorted cognitions about the cause or consequences of the traumatic event(s) that lead the individual to blame himself/herself or others. Persistent negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger, guilt, or shame). Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities. Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others. Persistent inability to experience positive emotions (e.g., inability to experience happiness, satisfaction, or loving feelings). Marked alterations in arousal and reactivity associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following: Irritable behavior and angry outbursts (with little or no provocation), typically expressed as verbal or physical aggression toward people or objects. Reckless or self-destructive behavior. Hypervigilance. Exaggerated startle response. Problems with concentration. Sleep disturbance (e.g., difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep). Duration of the disturbance (Criteria B, C, D and E) is more than 1 month. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., medication, alcohol) or another medical condition.

No one ever notices the help. If you’re trying to spy, a mid-level service job is perfect. You have an excuse to be everywhere, to touch everything, and unless you’re really bad at your job (either/both of them) no one is going to notice you.

Usually this comes up in arguments on Stormlight, but it fits here too today, so... My maternal grandfather went through a hell that makes what Kaladin goes through look like child’s play. And he came out kind, compassionate, warm, joyous and unbroken. Not everyone who goes through trauma ends up with PTSD. Many come out with no or mild trauma. This is NOT unrealistic. There is an annoying tendency today to assume that every mildly traumatic incident will result in long term traumatic damage. Considering some studies indicate that that expectation actually makes developing that kind of damage likely, and you can see the problem. Also PTSD refers to a very specific set of symptoms. Please stop misusing it. When people do that the APA changes the terminology, which is annoying. College is hard enough without having to remember more than one name for the same condition.

The Vorkosigan books are some of my favorites due to all the ways Bujold plays with the concept. I mean, Aral is Bi from the beginning. A general, from a hyper-masculine society, and he’s bi. And it’s so unimportant to who he is that I completely forgot for multiple books until it came up again. (His son is the usual main, and Miles is decidedly NOT thinking about his dad’s private life.) It’s just part of who he is, but only a part. And Beta! Where you wear earrings to specify your sexuality. To a very specific extent. Also: the Herm population. I honestly don’t think Brandon is capable of writing like this yet, though. He still struggles to write romances. His best relationships are more parent/child-esque, or platonic friendships.