Kingsdaughter613

Some of us are very aware of this and still don’t think Kelsier is completely responsible. (And, just to note, I’m the person who has him threatening to make MeLaan drown herself in lye in a roast battle. So it’s not like I don’t understand what he’s capable of.) One part is because we also have a WoB, as well as textual evidence from TFE, indicating that Kelsier is a terrible administrator. We also know that his version of running a group is to say “I want X done” then leave figuring out how to get X done to others. He’s also the kind of person who would think that oversight indicates a lack of trust, so he doesn’t bother with it. All of which indicates he’s likely to be responsible for policy, but not individual methodology. There’s also more minor things. We can be pretty sure he wouldn’t have agreed with how Mraize tried to recruit Shallan, as it’s opposed to the way Kelsier recruits Vin. Also, it was a stupid way of doing it. Kelsier is too good at reading people to use that method. (This has zero to do with morals, btw. Morally he’d have no issue; it just wasn’t a good way to recruit someone.) We do know he wouldn’t be okay with what happened to Lift under most circumstances. One of Kelsier’s few consistent soft spots is children, even unborn ones. (As seen by his decision to leave a pregnant noblewoman alive.) He’s more likely to try and recruit Lift than capture her.

The theory that it’s now a Kandra does not preclude the possibility that it was an Aviar prior, which I think likely.

Saze probably fits Truthwatcher better. They also tend to be scholars, but aren’t as logical as Elsecallers tend to be. I agree about Kell being a Willshaper, btw. The quiz put that as his most likely Order. I think it would really come down to which Spren he ran into first, honestly.

Eryn inclined her head slightly. “My thanks.” She walked briskly down the block, pausing as she approached the tavern. ”Think we should ask Ett’s and Drae lady if join?”

Eryn shrugged. “Will ask.” She paused. “ No, you ask. Speak better. To Basil be self, but hide power and keep secrets. Not one of us.”

Because he’s hiding his involvement. Also, I think the MMSK is actually Bavadin’s, not Kelsier’s. They’re just ‘working’ together (while planning to backstab each other.)

The priest glanced at the scholar with some amusement. “The Survivor would like you. That is why he formed us: to question and seek answers.” Eryn nodded. “Think some on Aluminum. When have thought come to me. I will reveal then.” She inclined her head toward the priest. “Done now. Will go Steel Inn.” With that she turned, heading for the door.

Read the whole theory. He’d be running a double con, where he’s seemingly trying to steal Harmony while supposedly allied with Autonomy, but is actually planning to ‘borrow’ Harmony and use it steal Autonomy and then give back Harmony + Autonomy to Saze. Basically: Step 1: Kelsier pretends to become disillusioned with Saze Step 2: Kelsier ‘allies’ with Autonomy Step 3: Kelsier manipulates Autonomy into arranging a situation where he can sever Saze from Harmony, supposedly so Autonomy can shatter it. Step 4: During the above step Kelsier betrays Autonomy and steal Harmony. Due to Kelsier’s nature this turns the Shard to Discord. Step 5: Kelsier uses Discord to kill Bavadin, who is momentarily vulnerable. Step 6: Kelsier takes up Autonomy, Connecting it to Discord. Step 7: Kelsier gives the triple Shard back to Sazed, ensuring that Scadrial has a Shard capable of action. Interference would occur between steps 4 & 5, mostly because Kelsier is conning Sazed as well as Bavadin. This results in Harmony being Shattered, at least until book three. And Kelsier wouldn’t be a villain; he’d be a pseudo-villain. Right idea, wrong methodology. I pointed out why he can’t be a true villain in my second post. It’s mostly because the third Era would have to be a hero to villain story for Kelsier, as that kind of face-heel turn can’t occur offscreen.

Eventeo?

The guy whose name was almost traitor before Brandon realized no one would name their kid that? Ahe or something? The one whose daughter had a thing with the martial artist who used the Dor? I’m very bad with names.

I don’t think he’d remain that way though. It’s too great a betrayal of his arc and it sends the very bad message that you can never be better than your genetics (remember: Kelsier’s psychopathy is neurological, and something he was born with.) There’s also the fact that if he’s going to face-heel turn the process has to occur in Mistborn - and not in a novella or in the time between books. It has to happen in a mainline novel. So that leaves us with three possibilities. One: Kelsier remains a Mistborn protagonist throughout. His motives are - relatively - pure, and he’s on the side of angels throughout. Based on various things Brandon has said, I no longer think this will be the case. And honestly? It would be way too boring for the character. Two: Era 2 will be a protagonist journey to villain for Kelsier. I don’t think this is likely because of the reasons mentioned above, and because that isn’t the story Brandon has been telling with Kelsier. There’s also the fact that such a story has to take place primarily ‘on screen’ and I think too much of the story will have been told ‘off screen’, possible Secret History 2 not withstanding. This one also causes a few other problems, all meta. One is fan alienation. Let’s be fair here. Most fans don’t read every Word of Brandon. You have fans who only read one series. You have casual fans who don’t analyze every word. And Kelsier, as a character, has many fans. You make him a villain and the fans who aren’t primed for it will - rightfully - feel betrayed. The last they saw of the character he was a hero, and he was in the process of becoming a better person. There’s also the fact that even if the arc is done so well that no one objects - and it can 100% be done - there is a great risk of making it impossible for many people to reread the original series. If you know this character that you fell in love with as a hero becomes this horrible twisted villain in a story written over a decade later, it can taint the original story. So for those of us who love Kelsier, who fell in love with and were inspired by him, it can make the original trilogy too painful to read. I’ve mentioned this a handful of times, and I’ll say it again here: Kelsier has saved my life. Where Kaladin makes me suicidal, Kelsier’s ability to smile no matter how hard or bad things are has given me the strength to fight through the few days a month when I’m depressed. People have told Brandon that Kelsier’s inspired them in that manner. And I don’t think that’s the kind of thing Brandon wants to take away. Which leaves option three, the one I think is most likely and most interesting and -in my opinion - the most true to the character: Kelsier initially seems to be the villain, even acts as the villain, but ultimately turns out to be on the correct side all along - just going about things in the wrong way, causing him to have a redemption arc. This one allows for a lot more leeway, as we don’t need to see the hero to villain story - because it never happened. Kelsier has always been a hero with... unorthodox methods, shall we say? We’re now on the other side - the crew not knowing his plans. But this crew doesn’t trust him and THIS time his plans don’t go off as planned. Kelsier himself though is still the same person he was - and that’s the crux of his problem. He can be a villain without being a villain in this scenario. And it lines up nicely with what Brandon has said - that in other circumstances he’d be a villain, because Kell’s way of doing things doesn’t work well in most situations. And that lesson would be the very one Kelsier would be learning as his arc in this kind of story. Basically: option one: his character remains static option two: his character regresses option three: his character progresses. So my guess is option three for all the reasons stated above.

Kelsier may have been Snapped directly by Preservation. It certainly wasn’t a normal snapping, so really isn’t something we can use as proof.

Okay, so here’s my crazy theory about the basic plot structure and possible storylines: Book 1, our new SWAT protagonists track the mystery mistborn serial killer (mmsk). As they track him they discover a mysterious conspiracy that’s manipulating events on all levels. Around the time they defeat MMSK they learn that Kelsier is behind the conspiracy and he’s working with another Shard against Harmony. Book 2: Kelsier is the villain of this book, but there are hints all along that he’s playing this other Shard (revealed through his PoVs to be Autonomy.) Our heroes work to defeat him, pitting them against the entire planet. Along the way they (and we) become increasingly Cosmere aware. This ends up leading to them exposing (some of) Kell’s machinations to Autonomy prematurely. In typical Brandon penultimate fashion, they actually do manage to stop Kelsier’s plans, only for it to be revealed that what he was doing was intended to stop Autonomy who, it turns out, had been active on Scadrial since before Rashek’s Ascension. Of course, in typical Kelsier fashion, he didn’t tell anyone his plans and Autonomy - forewarned - now takes many of them over to turn against Scadrial. At this point Kelsier joins/is recruited by the heroes, who realize that he was, in his own way, trying to protect Scadrial. Total theory: The heroes discover that Kelsier is trying to steal HARMONY. They intervene, preventing this, but this leaves a hole that allows Autonomy to shatter Harmony. Kelsier then risks himself to save Sazed, to the shock of the SWAT crew. After this they learn that Kelsier knew Saze couldn’t directly act against Autonomy. He intended to take Harmony and, wielding it as Discord, use it to kill Bavadin allowing him to take her Shard. Then he would return the triple Shard to Sazed. Saze, upon learning all this, blankly asks why Kelsier didn’t just ASK him for the Shard, as he would have given it to him. The realization that this could all have been avoided if he hadn’t been so intent on one upping everyone is what finally breaks through Kell’s arrogance and forces him to acknowledge that he messed up - very, very badly. Book 3, then, is Kelsier’s parallel to Sazed’s journey in HoA. His confidence is deeply shaken by how badly he messed up, especially as Autonomy continues to use his own tools against him. This book becomes his redemption arc, as he rebuilds himself and finally learns that, for all his power, he isn’t invincible and he can’t be completely autonomous. This allows him to create a new plan from the dregs of the old, and work with the SWAT crew to defeat Autonomy and give her Shard to Saze. (Harmony being reconstructed as part of this.) At the end Kelsier and Sazed talk, as they did at the end of Secret History. Kelsier reveals that he told himself he was staying to protect Scadrial, but not only had he not done that, he now acknowledged that he just wasn’t ready to die. He then tells Sazed that he can’t willingly go Beyond now because Preservation’s Command won’t let him. Saze points out that Kelsier still doesn’t want to die - which he notes as very human - and removes/alters Preservation’s Command instead of forcing Kell Beyond. Saze then restores Kelsier, orders him to ‘do better’, and tells him he should go Beyond when he’s actually ready to do so. The book ends with Kell looking over Scadrial with two eyes and realizing that his hands are smooth and unmarred. His scars are gone. So, while some (most) of this is going to be completely wrong, and a whole lot is pure fancy and sap, I do think Kelsier is going to mess up very, very badly and that this will force the character to grow in ways he hasn’t yet. That’s the only part of this that I really think has any chance of being remotely accurate (aside from the ‘SWAT team chases MMSK’, which is from WoB.) Either way, with Mistborn Era 3 starting within the next 5 years, I wanted to get this out there on the off chance I’m even REMOTELY right. Mostly so I can claim bragging rights on the off chance any of the above occurs.

Hair is not part of the Kandra’s body, so it wouldn’t heal.

He’s not a Ghostblood; they don’t kill their own. He’s not 17th Shard; they don’t directly intervene. Unless Mraize didn’t kill him, which I wouldn’t seriously consider except that this is the THIRD time the GBs have been implicated in a murder we haven’t seen, and Thaidakar has been accused three times of having arranged an assassination he wasn’t involved in. Which I find suspicious. And we know they didn’t commit at least one murder (as Shallan did it.) Once is incidence, twice is coincidence, and there’s no such thing as coincidence. But three times is definitely a pattern, and there is a pattern here. The most interesting possibility is that Gerrah is one of Harmony’s agents, and Kelsier is eliminating Sazed’s informants for unknown reasons. Which is a possibility. Honestly, assuming the GBs killed him (as the text implies), the biggest question I have is why now? Mraize and Gerrah have been wandering the same circles for awhile. What changed? Why kill him now? And is that bird an Aviar or a Kandra? I can’t be the only one who found it very suspicious that the text specifically pointed out that Lift couldn’t heal the feathers, when we know she’s been able to heal hair and nails.

Guys, officially this is not here until 12:05 PM on Wednesday, okay? Also, Kelsier’s name is pronounced Kel-see-ay in world, and he’s talking, so keep that in mind, alright?

Nice!

I’ll send it to you via PM early in case I’m busy at 12 and forget, lol.

Can we intentionally allow Kell to give his late on the grounds that the character is always late?

Eryn smiled warmly. “You have met our master? He named you; you are one of us now. Will need to arrange to give mark,” she added, turning back to the priest. He nodded. “I know a woman; I’ll write down the address.” He jotted down a few lines on a scrap of paper. “She’s not one of us, but she’s very skilled - and very discreet.” Eryn nodded. “Always good.” ”Agreed. But you didn’t need privacy for that?” Eryn shook her head. “These.” She removed the spikes from her satchel. The priest’s eyes widened. “This one full, this one empty. Took from hemalurgist.” ”A rogue hemalurgist?” The priest repeated, shocked. He shook his head. “How did he know the art?” ”Said his father knew. Learned from grandfather.” The priest frowned. “I’ll let our people know. You have a name?” Eryn nodded, giving it to him. “Take care of these?” ”Of course.” The priest assured her. “I have some aluminum foil in my chambers; it should keep the charge until I can get this properly stored.” ”Good.” Eryn tilted her head slightly, thinking. “Man came to us before. Basil Naseir. Know him?” The priest frowned. “Naseir? He owns the aluminum mine near here, and he’s known to be a devout follower of our master. But the latest reports said he was in the city. If he’s here...” Scroll’s eyes narrowed. “I don’t have many people available - the Lord Survivor’s been sending them elsewhere - but I might be able to spare one or two.” Eryn shook her head. “No need. Basil ask us work for him. Will say yes. Then watch; no suspicions. ”If this one keep mouth shut,” she added, glaring at Drae.

RoW spoilers within One fine day, in a lavish manor on the lovely world of Eddings, three tricksters gathered. There they came to a decision that was to them of little consequence, but of great import to the multiverse and all who dwelled therein. For on this day Prince Kheldar of Drasnia, David Xanatos of New York, and Kelsier of Scadrial, determined to rob the multiverse, for the sole purpose of alleviating their collective boredom. Chaos and Mayhem ensue as the grand tapestry upon which all stories written and unwritten dwell was promptly torn to shreds. And so we begin. The first target: The world of Harry Potter. Silk (aka. Prince Kheldar), native of Drasnia on Eddings, the world of the Belgariad. Quick witted and sharp tongued, he’s his nation’s greatest spy and he’s helped save the world twice. The richest man on his homeworld, he’s married to fellow spy Velvet (aka. Liselle) and has a young child. His half brother, Urgit, is the king of Murgos and his cousin Kheva is King of Drasnia. Played by @Lecky Twig David Xanatos, native of New York on Earth-G, the world of Gargoyles. A suave and wealthy businessman, he has few morals and fewer compunctions, particularly when pursuing power. Currently nominally on the side of good, after an extended period of villainy. Inventor of the Xanatos Gambit (TM), he is happily to married to fellow trickster Fox, and has a young son, Alexander. He is aided and abetted by his loyal servant, Owen. Played by @Narcoleptic Axolotl Kelsier, native of pre-Catascande Scadrial in the Cosmere, the starcluster where Mistborn, Stormlight and several other Sanderson stories take place. (But you know this, don’t you? You should; this IS the 17th Shard.) Charming and charismatic, he’s been a conman, a revolutionary, a god, and currently runs his universe’s version of the mafia. He’s also trapped on his homeworld, much to his annoyance. Played by me, Kingsdaughter613. I’m putting this here because obviously we’re going to bring up the Kelsier - Thaidakar thing. Once the spoiler period is over this can be moved to the RP boards (or earlier, if the mods say it’s okay.) If anyone would like to join you are welcome to PM me. You are welcome to offer to play various characters in the different worlds the trio visits, members of their respective supporting casts, or additional tricksters - if you can convince me that they’re of a similar bent as these three dastards. @Lecky Twig We’re in Silk’s home, so you get to start us off.

Eryn shot Ledashwy a sharp glance. The other woman looked nervous, uncertain. Why would she give a false name after seeing how annoyed Eryn was with Drae? Unless... “Why Sage?” Eryn asked finally. “You choose? Or given?”

Eryn nodded at the scholar. She would not introduce her. Then she turned her glare on Drae. “His name,” she cooly told Scroll, “is Drae.” She glowered are the man. “You should not lie. We all serve Sovereign here.”

This actually appears to be a natural part of the function of Breath, based on a similar event in Warbreaker.