Govir

There was a post (here or on Reddit, I can’t remember), about how many characters have unnamed mothers. I know Brandon has seen it, but I’m not sure if it was before he finished RoW. That may affect him to try and include more mother’s names.

So random thought I had: what if Restares is Helaran in some fashion (e.g. fully alive or a cognitive shadow after dying)? This is due to the combination of RoW saying Shallan would know what to do when she found Restares and someone saying they think Helaran could still be alive. It’s a crackpot theory, I know, but I would be ok with it.

Good to know. It's been a long time since I've read I also just realized a lot of that post probably should have been behind spoiler tags...so I'm going to try and fix it.

I'm not opposed to this, as my theory definitely didn't have the whole picture. More of a general very basic structure of possible pieces.

It is my thought that conjoiners/reversers don't use a cage. They get their effect from the split gemstone and some kind of quantum entanglement type mechanic. I also believe the following: I think you start with "raw" investiture somehow which can come from one of the shards. This doesn't do much on it's own, although it does do some stuff (as seen by Stormlight). You pass the "raw" investiture through structures to give it shapes, which dictate a change in usage. This step can be done multiple times. You get a result. Some throughput examples. Stormlight (1) -> Flame Spren (2) -> Pewter (2) -> Generates Heat (3) Stormlight (1) -> Heliodor* (2) -> Bronze (2) -> Detects People (3) Mistborn Elantris

I really thought it was going to be Tarah before they gave the name, and I did think we'd at least see Tarah in the bar (maybe in Dakhnah's group). But I'm ok with not seeing her as well.

I enjoyed it, but still think it was kind of meh. 1. My first thought was that it started off similar to Snapshot and a bit of Altered Carbon (the show, haven't read the books) thrown in. 2. I don't like the ending, because it felt tropey without saying anything new. "Two versions, one must die, but who survives?" I think it would have been much more interesting if both survived (although, with the structure of the plot, the original has to die for the PR to live). I guess my overall boiled down reaction is that it was entertaining, but not unexpected. All the pieces are things I've seen before, and it's missing the way Sanderson can subvert expectations.

Spoiler for the podcast I suppose (and Oathbringer, if you want to get technical) The whole episode had me laughing, but this got me real good. Well done.

I’ve been championing this theory, but afaik it is still just a theory. It’s technically possible, but even I will admit it’s unlikely. We won’t know until the book actually comes out, or we get an official word from Brandon’s camp.

I'm trying to say there's nothing magical going on with the "changing polarities" bit. That statement is saying a fabrial can be made to both emit pain (pewter) and diminish pain (tin) using the same gemstone / powersource by mechanically switching which metal cage is touching the stone. We have seen this fabrial in OB. Going from emitting pain to diminishing pain is the changing of polarities. I will die on this hill until the actual book comes out, or we get official word of either being correct.

As I stated in the chapter 11 thread, I think the epigraph reinforces my thought that iron and steel were a mistake in the chapter 10 epigraph. The construct of the lecture was like this: Metal 1 (pewter) can be used by itself Metal 2 (tin) can be used by itself Metal 3 and 4 (steel and iron) can be used together, "as well" (implying steel and iron were already talked about, which we did not see at least) I think it should actually be Metal 1 (pewter) can be used by itself Metal 2 (tin) can be used by itself Metal 1 and 2 can be used together as well And now we have an epigraph saying they know Iron can be used in an attractor. If Iron and Steel can be used together, why wouldn't they try to use them apart? And *we* know steel is probably the repeller metal. I think it's more plausible we got an error in the text, then it is that there are different versions of steel being used in fabirals. Edited version combining chapter 10 and 11 epigraphs, and changing steel and iron for pewter and tin.

Wasn't Renarin hidden from his sight? or at least in the Diagram's version of Renarin? I took this as a little white lie on Venli's part. She's talking to Timbre, who is a lightspren and can in theory act as a social bridge to the other lightspren. I don't think Timbre is *actually* representing the lightspren at this time.

They are known as mavset-im, Those Ones of Masks. Mask implies a covering, which to me reinforces the thought it is a Lightweaving Fused (which we've seen in a Rysn interlude).

My immediate thought is that the epigraph reinforces my thought that the previous epigraph contains an error, specifically that iron and steel mentioned in chapter 10 should have been pewter and tin (i.e. the two metals being talked about separately prior to that statement). I haven't read the rest of the chapter yet. Edit: Further thought, if they knew iron and steel could "reverse polarity" and they knew iron could be used as an attractor, they should have tried steel as the repeller.

There is no reason to need lift, even if not everything that is flying is not lashed. But wanting things to have lift to lessen the Stormlight needed, that may be a good idea. I was mostly emphasizing the difference they put on wings vs fins. To me, wings are more a curved bulge, whereas fins are straight flat.

Tin is considered an Internal Pulling metal though, so in theory it should be doing something internal. But Tin and Pewter have always been weird to me. I really need to go find that in book explanation of their weirdness again...

To follow up on this, my understanding of how the flying machine works is that there is at least a Conjoiner in use (and a Reverser if they want to be efficient). In the simple scenario, a Conjoiner is used and moved around on the Shattered Plains. When they run out of plain, they enclose it in Aluminum (which blocks the connection) and run it back to the other side of the plain. This means there's a period of time were the connection is broken. In my more efficient scenario, there is a Conjoiner and a Reverser such that when they reach the end of the plain, the enclose the Conjoiner and expose the Reverser, allowing moving back to the other side of the plain to also use that movement for actual vehicular movement.

My understanding was that they tried added wings for stability, but it created lift. So instead they added fins. (Emphasis on difference between wings and fins).

I would think it's a mechanical process of actually moving which metal is touching the sphere. But I agree Navani's wording on Steel and Iron are very vague. Almost like she should have been talking about Steel and Iron in fabrials, then mention they can be used in the same one. As it is now, it sounds like Steel and Iron are what changes the polarity. But I think the changing of the polarity happens because of the moving of metal. Or more likely, like Brandon meant to use Pewter and Tin in this last explanation which then calls back to an Augmenter / Deminisher we've already seen (the one she used in OB). I forget. How finalized are these previews? Is it possible those metals are a typo?

I don't think this is a true statement. I think that in Allomancy, the metals are like keys or patterns. An Allomancer has the ability to pass Investiture (via Preservation) through the metals and therefore the metal works more like a conducting wire shaping the Investiture into the effect. (This next statement is my theorizing) The reason the metals burn away is because of the amount of Investiture passing through them. Elantris spoiler This theory allows Fabrials to do the same, pass Investiture (via Stormlight) through metal to get an effect. The metal determines the broad classification of Fabrial, the Gemstone/spren determine tweaks (e.g. a heating Fabrial more generally is an augmenter, but because a Flamespren is used it emits heat). Metals we know from the epigraphs: Zinc - express more strongly (Rioting) Brass - express less strongly (Soothing) Bronze - detects things, heliodor is used to detect people (Seeking) Pewter - "express attribute in force", this always seemed to me to mean it manifests the attribute. i.e. a trapped flamespren does not produce heat. But add a pewter cage and heat is produced. Tin - "diminish nearby attributes", this makes sense as the opposite of pewter. Metals we don't know from the epigraphs (as of Chapter 10) , and as such are speculation on my part. (sticking with the "base" 8) Steel - "push" on an attribute. Could be used in Repellor fabrials. Iron - "pull" on an attribute. Could be used in Attractor fabrials. Copper - hides things. Could be used to hide from an Alerter fabrial.

The way I've been looking at fabrials is that the metal helps determines the type of certain fabrials and the gem determines the attribute. To that end, we have seen Attractor fabrials which I will conjecture use Iron (i.e. pulling) and likewise I conjecture you can make a Repeller with Steel. What gets Attracted / Repelled depends on the gem used, following the Ten Essences. An example of this is the Alerter which uses a heliodor (meat, flesh) and Bronze (seeking) to detect people, but is said it is theoretically possible to use other gems as well (from RoW Chapter 8). EDIT: And now I see there's a whole Fabrial thread in another forum, which you're active in. I hold by what I said (and see that it was mentioned by others in the other thread). Also, your comments of Tin/Pewter being oddly paired, wasn't there a bit about this in the Mistborn books? I can't remember where though, and The Coppermind doesn't seem to have anything specific about that talk.

I thought you meant *Lift*, and was super confused. Could this be the difference between conjoined gems (e.g. spanreeds) are either going the same way, or going opposite (in addition to the different gems, as per The Coppermind?

I’m not sure, since we don’t know much about the Sibling. But it’s just what my first gut reaction was.

It’s a wild guess, but I feel like the one writing to Navani is the Sibling.

"By your powers combined, I am Captain Roshar!" What if being an Allomancer is more about being able to open a pathway to an unlimited source of Investiture (i.e. Preservation) and the metal is used as a conduit? I'm thinking like Elantrians use Aons. And the reason the metal goes away is because it is literally being burned away, by the Investiture being passed through it? So it's possible that the metal in fabrials are having Investiture passing through them, and hitting the matrix and being shaped by it. But because it's less than a direct link with Preservation, it's not burning away the metals.