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Everything posted by Weltall
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Possibly it was more for Szeth's benefit. If he was (mostly) dead it's easier for Szeth to cut his ties with his past and move forward since he can rationalize it as no longer being bound by the dictates of the Stone Shamans or his own sense of duty. Alternatively, Nale did it that way to make a point that he could restore someone who hadn't yet passed Beyond in order to impress upon Szeth that yes, he's a Herald and can do amazing things. Or he did it for reasons that only make sense in his head. Like all the Heralds, Nale is insane and Brandon has warned us not to trust anything they say completely. It may have to do with the method of his resurrection not being very good at that sort of healing (compare Nightblood to a typical Shardblade as an example of forcing one magic system to do something it wasn't 'intended' to do) or it may be that Nale didn't have enough Investiture to reconnect Szeth's spiritweb to his body perfectly, so the connection between the two operates on a slight delay. Realmatically this shouldn't be an issue since the spiritweb (as a Spiritual construct) isn't affected by location, so being slightly out of sync is just going to be disconcerting for anyone like Lift who looks at him, but not debilitating to Szeth himself. Now I'm wondering what a certain Sovereign would look like if Lift were to look at him...
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Ettmetal IS Harmonium. The instability (and disproportionate explosiveness) is because of Harmony's conflicting nature and there's probably not too much Sazed can do about that since he's already balancing them as best he can and better than others would.
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FYI, lesser spren can theoretically bond with humans. We have no idea what this would do though. Sorry if it was unclear to you, I didn't mean to imply that it was a literal comparison, just pointing out that the number of powers (in systems where that's a factor) are not within the control of the Shards. Therefore, there are only ten Surges but they may be expressed slightly differently depending on whether you're getting them from a typical Nahel Bond or if your spren has been touched by Sja-Anat. Or if you're a Fused, who are also clearly using the same Surges (enough that Szeth can counter them all based on his own experience) even if they're not operating in quite the same way as Radiant Surges. Since what Renarin does is similar to what a Truthwatcher is 'supposed' to be able to do and we know that different Orders can express the Surges in slightly different ways while still drawing on the same fundamental power, it's far more likely that what we see with him is not a third Surge that was added to his powerset but the result of Odium's influence on one of his Surges and/or his Resonance. We've seen this happen in Oathbringer at least with what Renarin does. He's accessing the same Surges as a 'normal' Truthwatcher but there's some weirdness owing to Glys being corrupted and so he's not working in exactly the same way, but he's still doing mostly the same things. We know from the gem archive that this has happened before (one of the gems is from a Truthwatcher who says they foresaw certain events but can't let the others hear them admit that) and that person must have been able to hide the changes among a society who knew what a Truthwatcher was 'supposed' to be able to do. Ergo, the changes are subtle. Did I get all that across well enough and was that responding to your thoughts as they are in your head?
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[OB] Shards averse to interacting with people?
Weltall replied to Wandering Investor's topic in Cosmere Discussion
Harmony has apparently been doing just that. He 'accidentally' lets slip the idea of motion pictures to the kandra, who mention it to Wax et al, and for all we know Wayne will mention it to Sophi Tarcsel and then she'll figure out how to make it work, or at least get it started and someone else will build on her work. He also mentions other technologies to Wax. We know he's a Shard that's actively nudging development along but he's also got his opposing Intents to juggle. Cultivation is currently busy fighting with Odium so her methods of interacting kind of have to be subtle, but we know she's doing it. Also, assuming that she should focus on the people of Roshar is awfully humanoidist (is that a word? It should be) of you. For all we know, she's fascinated by the rest of the planet's flora and fauna and is only tangentially interested in the noisy two-legged ones insofar as they intersect with her interests and her desire to oppose Odium. Endowment seems to have set up a really cushy gig for herself, insofar as every time anyone uses her magic system, they're carrying out her Intent for her. -
Word of Brandon says: No, he isn't.
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You can theoretically change a hemalurgic spike from one type to another so Forging an entire spike seems like it would be possible in theory. However, Brandon's said that altering an existing spike would require more power than Shai has so she would need some sort of boost. Turning an ordinary metal spike into a hemalurgic one would require not just altering the nature of a spike but essentially creating the bits of spiritweb from nothing. Whether that's more difficult than altering something already Invested we don't know but it can't be easy from a technical perspective. Also, Forgery works based on plausibility so for the stamp to take you'd need to have a situation where it's plausible that a given bit of metal was used, on someone with the power you want the spike to have, by someone who knows what they're doing. And the Forger would have to be intimately familiar with the way hemalurgy works as well. That's a lot of hurdles to overcome. My guess is that it could be done but it would be one of those things where Brandon uses the analogy of turning lead into gold using a particle accelerator; possible but completely inefficient.
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Welcome (back) to the Shard! Numbers in the Cosmere are associated with the planets rather than the Shards and the latter do not get to control how their magic manifests, it's an interaction between factors. Thus, since the entire Rosharan System (except Braize) has ten as an associated number, we can be pretty certain that there are exactly ten Surges, no more. We know for a fact that Honor did not have any control over the pairings of Surges for example, they're a natural function of the system. However, they don't always behave the same way for each Order that can access them, as explicitly stated by the Stormfather and confirmed by Brandon. New Surge combinations are theoretically possible but you'd need an Honorblade or a way to juggle two Nahel Bonds to make it work. New Surges entirely aren't. Odium is still using the same fundamental forces that Honor and Cultivation are and the magic that the people of Ashyn once used was also drawing on the same elements as Surgebinding so we shouldn't expect there to be all-new 'Odium Surges', just slight spins on the existing ones with consequent spins on Resonances. For example, Renarin is seeing the future instead of the present due to Glys being corrupted.
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Yep, he's just following Rosharan terminology here which is technically accurate even if there's a more precise term he could have used. Like Hoid at the end of Way of Kings thinking of the blade that Taln is carrying as a Shardblade rather than an Honorblade. Indeed, he even uses this as a threat against one Fused who doesn't like the idea of following a human Champion.
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I don't think Rayse was supposed to be at the Shattering
Weltall replied to Invocation's topic in Cosmere Discussion
I'm imagining a story. The eleven living Vessels arrive on Yolen to attend a party thrown by Frost, with Hoid acting as the butler. Sazed arrives late because he has trouble finding his way there. Just after dinner when everyone has retired to the sitting room, the spheres all go dun and the house is plunged into darkness. A scream. The lights are restored and Rayse lies dead in the center of the room, Nightblood run through his body. Everyone looks at one another and wonders: 'Who murdered this chull?'. Everyone is a suspect...- 53 replies
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It's been asked, can you guess what Brandon's reply was? That said, since unsheathed Nightblood eats the Investiture in whatever it hits, it would presumably eat both the original soul of the Fused and whatever Odium did to them to make them reincarnating Cognitive Shadows. The Investiture wouldn't actually be irretrievably destroyed (following Cosmere Thermodynamics) but it would be changed so much that it's no longer recognizable as a Fused. That's my take at least. And then whether the Fused (or any other sapient being that Nightblood kills) passes Beyond or not becomes a question for the philosophers and theologians.
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WoB is short for Word of Brandon, it means something that he's said outside of the books, usually at signings or other special events when fans get chances to ask him questions. Here's an example of one that will also answer your second question. Spoil-tagged because it involves Oathbringer.
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Ummm, kind of both in a way? He's got a well-defined plot but at a certain point it stalls for a while and feels disconnected from (most of) the other plotlines. It's like he needed to be there but his story couldn't advance yet for big picture reasons. The same can be said for a number of character arcs at that point in the series, so how you feel about it will depend a lot on how invested you are in the particular characters involved with Perrin's arc. That's a pretty fair description. xD And there's a lot of fun to be had when you work through those layers or one comes into conflict with another. But if we're thinking of the same quote, Brandon actually said that Mat was one of the hardest characters to write because of that very thing.
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Mat has juuuuuust started coming into his own as a character by The Dragon Reborn but he's a book or two away from really takng off. And with Perrin... well, he's not bad so much as his plot thread is one of the more bogged-down ones in the middle of the series. It started to pick up before Robert Jordan's passing and Brandon kept it going, so if you like him now you should still like him by the time you hit the home stretch. Related to that, Brandon made me completely do an about-face on certain characters that I really didn't like up to that point, or that I started out liking but got annoyed by along the way. Not saying who (other than 'Perrin wasn't one of them'), just saying that you may find yourself changing opinions multiple times as the series goes on, and hopefully more in positive ways than negative by the end. No, he has his own exclusive set of problems that make his life interesting once his independent storyline gets kicked into high gear. xD Full disclosure: Mat is my favorite of the trio because I love his character archetype.
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Yeah, given that they came up with the way of making flangria (which apparently tastes really bland on its own, Kaladin likens soulcast food to mold in that scene) delicious they've probably got ready access to herbs and spices in Herdaz for experimenting. We know that spice is really popular in the Vorin lands for men's food and the location fits geographically where we'd expect to see a center of spice production. Also this. And the fact that Sixth of the Dusk hates Herdazian food is proof that he's got awful taste. xD
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As this topic hasn't yet been given an [OB] flag for the title, you're gonna have to spoil-tag that stuff. OB And yet more spoiler tags because of Oathbringer.
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The full WoB (that I didn't post because it's loooooong) has some more to say about this, using Autonomy as an example. The Investiture associated with Patji's Eye is 'Autonomy's Investiture' even before the Shard became aware of it, but once she discovered it and 'knew' that it was hers she was able to do things with it. Maybe we're both thinking the same thing and just not using the same words? Basically all I was trying to say is that there's no such thing as 'Adonalsium Investiture' any more in a strict sense; it's all associated with the Shards. But it may be doing its own thing completely independently of whatever Shard is associated with it. So by extension, I'd agree that there's probably Investiture on Roshar that's not directly associated with any of the resident Shards (rotspren for example could be argued to be largely 'of Ruin') though it's not likely to be very much in the grand scheme of things. It's entirely doable, especially given that you've got a year or two to work with. Everyone started out knowing the same amount about all these topics (ie nothing) and it's become easier than ever to find out everything Brandon has said about them now that Arcanum exists. Thanks to it and Theoryland before it and participating in discussions with everyone here I keep learning of new Words of Brandon that I've either missed seeing or didn't grasp the significance of. If it's your goal, you'll be a full-fledged Cosmere guru before you know it. xD
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I don't think Rayse was supposed to be at the Shattering
Weltall replied to Invocation's topic in Cosmere Discussion
If you've read Mistborn Secret History you've missed nothing, that contains the best explanation we've got so far (ie 'the Vessels' motives varied') and we're not likely to get much more until Dragonsteel comes out. So get comfy, we'll be here a while. -
The fact that there are so many lighteyes now when the sample size (and social attitudes) we see in Dalinar's visions of the past show that there weren't any other than the Radiants he saw makes it fairly clear that the eye color change is inheritable from someone bonded to a dead Blade so long s they were still bonded to it at the time they had children. Those numbers certainly didn't come from the Radiants because most of them were apparently killed shortly after the Recreance. We know that the color change is dependant on the type of spren that became that Blade and the entire plotline with Moash becoming the head of a new family once he receives the shards Kaladin passes onto him only makes sense if it's understood that his children would be lighteyes as well. There's also dialogue in WoK and OB where characters make it clear that they believe a darkeyes who becomes a lighteyes will pass on their newly light eyes to their descendants. Yeah, Rosharans in general are very highly Invested, not only in the way that Surgebinding works but in general because you've got the highstorm blowing through regularly which is loaded with Investiture. Brandon's even said this is why an outbreak of the common cold in the Purelake was so shocking; their Investiture makes them so healthy that any disease is a terrifying concept. Sel does have the Elantrians whose changes due to Investiture are even more pronounced (so long as they're 'in range' at least) but setting them aside, Rosharans do seem to have more Investiture running through/around them on average, obviously setting aside extreme cases like the Well of Ascension and people with massive Breath stores. And the latter doesn't bond to the soul in the same way a Nahel Bond does. Roshar is the way it is because Adonalsium apparently designed it that way for reasons that nobody in-universe can fathom (Frost believes there was a reason for the way he did things and not just Adonalsium having a cool idea for a star system on a slow day) and this includes the 'natural' spren bonds that allow things like greatshells to exist. The Nahel Bonds however were a new thing that came after the Shards arrived as the higher spren who form those bonds didn't exist until then and they mimicked what they'd seen Honor do. We know there will be Rosharan worldhoppers in the future and there's either been trade or some form of diaspora by the time of Sixth of the Dusk because Brandon has said that the titular character has had Herdazian food (and hated it). As for why Brandon the God Beyond made Roshar the way he did, I'm quite sure the only answer to that is: RAFO. But it probably has to do with being one of his three planned 'big stories' in the Cosmere along with Dragonsteel (where it all began) and Mistborn (the long-term one on the planet with a double-Shard). Having multiple Shards makes for all sorts of possible interactions, moreso than having just one. More possibilities makes for more storytelling options. EDIT: No such thing, I'm afraid.
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Dalinar is confronted with that line and thinks that Nohadon's intent was to remind his readers that a leader should serve those he leads, using the lighteyes/darkeyes distinction as part of the parable. The possibility of natural mutations excepted, light eyes seemingly began with the Knights Radiant and part of the association between light eyes and leadership comes from a dim memory of the Radiants and the powers they had. Hoid indirectly thinks about this at the end of WoK when he recalls how Vorin culture decided that lighteyes should be the rulers and that it wasn't any more ridiculous than other methods he'd seen... and this one actually had a good reason behind it. There is an apparent link between how light your eyes are and the strength of your Nahel Bond, as Kaladin's get progressively lighter as he progresses through his Ideals. That said, for anyone who's not a Surgebinder the relative lightness is an entirely cosmetic thing and there's no indication that it's treated at all differently culturally. You're considered either lighteyes or darkeyes (or you're heterochrome and things get trickier) and exactly what shade the eyes are is irrelevant.
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I don't think Rayse was supposed to be at the Shattering
Weltall replied to Invocation's topic in Cosmere Discussion
@Envay Welcome to the Shard! Odium is lying to himself when it comes to his intent, Hoid and Frost both agree that he's 'Hatred' and the former points out that Rayse was loathsome even before he Ascended. Take anything he says with a massive helping of salt. The Liar of Partinel samples combined with WoB suggest that the answer to the latter question is a very emphatic 'No'. Hoid is older than the Vessels. And to top it off, the Liar sample opened with Hoid's master dying, at which point Rayse hadn't even been born yet. We don't know how much time is going to pass between Liar and Dragonsteel (ages back, Brandon was planning on a gap of about five hundred years) but clearly enough that there's no connection between Rayse and the original Hoid whose name 'our' Hoid has taken. -
If Adonalsium actually created humanity directly (something Brandon has danced around, saying that people believe it without confirming that it's so) and he created the singers (likely, given that he made the entire system they live in) then it's quite possible that he made them closely related enough genetically that they could have children with each other. Even if you're almost or actually omnipotent, why reinvent the genetic wheel each time when you already have a template that works?
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I'm puzzled by the fact that you accept the idea of a simple Investiture threshold for one instance but are dead set against it being applicable to the other. Regarding proximity, the Investiture that is a spren is a part of Kaladin whether Syl is physically anywhere near Kaladin or not. Said Investiture when fully manifested in the Physical Realm as a Shardblade is considered heavily Invested. See here and here. Rosharans are also generally heavily Invested people, see here and here. OB Spoiler You're arguing uphill against something that we have seen happen based on a single ambiguous Word of Brandon that was not intended to discuss cross-Cosmere applications of that specific method of divination Yet more OB spoilers: Do you have any plausible explanation for what we saw happen other than what @StrikerEZ and I have been saying, or are you just going to keep saying 'Nuh-Uh!' over and over?
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Kaladin is a Surgebinder which means that he has a chunk of sapient Investiture permanently bonded to his soul. He doesn't need to be currently holding Stormlight to be Invested. Also, given what we saw in Oathbringer, I'm not sure why you're so dead set on arguing against the nature of it. The probability of 'Someone with Investiture being able to access Fortune through an intermediary' is exactly 100% because we have seen it happen. More OB spoilers
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Another thing that occurred to me, on the question of appearance. It's quite possible that there's a relationship between the non-Shin peoples developing the epicanthic fold and humanity becoming the 'Children of Honor'. Dalinar sees all three Vessels and he does not remark on the eyes of Tanavast and Cultivation's Vessel but he does notice that Rayse has 'Shin eyes'. Perhaps when the humans and singers essentially switched Shards, the humans' eyes were changed to look more like their new gods' as a sign of their allegiance? We know this sort of biological tampering is well within the capabilities of a Shard. I can think of a few reasons why the Shin might not have this, ranging from them initially favoring Odium (humans apparently gave him more of an ear at first) to them preferring to not have the change as a sign of their being the ones who kept to the initial agreements with the singers, or various permutations thereof.
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Here's one that talks about that specific Oathbringer scene. Returned see the future in two different ways. Seeing things in art depends on having a lot of Investiture in general while their dreams are unique to them via the process of becoming a Returned giving them a peek into the Spiritual Realm.
