WitchRolina

*sighs* See, this is what I meant by having trouble with communicating my ideas. Both of those statements sounds like they are in response to something I didn't say or ask about (from my perspective), meaning that I did so incorrectly. Freaking autism... First, the ten orders bind to specific spren - of which there are ten. The question is whether or not there are more that can form the Nahel bond, and what surges they'd be able to access. Metals were used as an example of this happening in the past in Sanderson's works, it's not meant to be a literal 1:1 comparison. You're answering a question that was never meant to be asked. Second, Surges have resonance between them. Yes, there is an aspect of illumination to that. It's possible that it's a resonance with another surge that allows it to see the future rather than merely the present. Just because the third surge isn't blatantly used doesn't mean it's not there, and doesn't mean that what he's using could be a resonance. To be clear, both of these theories are specifically about how adding Odium into the surgebinding magic system affects it. In both of my theories, it's an expansion, but in different ways. It's not a comparison to the metallic arts nor how they interact with them, it's not asking how to attain a third bond or brainstorming new surges.

Can you explain this statement? My understanding is that the surges you get depend on the spren you bond. I'd not be surprised if there's more than 10 spren types capable of forming a bond. Which would fall more in line with the second theory about corrupted spren - the corruption from odium granting a third of the ten surges. I'm not sure if I was clear on this or not - these two are not the same theory, but two very different theories. Would it be better if I just created a different thread for each?

My apologies for the late reply and res - I lost the ability to get online for a while and wasn't able to continue to the conversation. Additonally, forgive the difficulties I have with communicating my ideas - communication is... difficult for me. I've also thought on these some more since then, so my responses may be more in line with my new thoughts than my original post. First, regarding the ten orders and honorblades - given that there were Ten Metals right up until there weren't, is it possible that there are more than ten surges, but that there were only ten people to take up blades? Perhaps that's why there are 10 surges instead of the more widespread number of 16. Thus the reason that there may only be ten orders of knights may be more of one of imitation... but we're past that point. The heralds can no longer be something held to be a model for the Knights due to their fall - the modern knights would have to move beyond that. Part of that may be similar to what Vin and Elend did when trying to find new metals - perhaps the new knights might discover a new surge or combination of surges. A Nahel bond may be formed that doesn't fit one of the orders of knights radiant - essentially forming a new, "eleventh order". That's part of the inspiration behind the three eyes - five orders for each eye, and a central order being the Bondsmiths. It makes sense to me, given that there can only be three bondsmiths, which was always peculiar to me. The other question regarded corrupted orders. Honor and Cultivation could be interpreted to be granting one of the surges to each of the knights through the bond, as spren are a combination of honor and cultivation's investiture, as Scion pointed out. One possible interpretation is that Bondsmiths get Adhesion from honor, while Windrunners get Adhesion from Cultivation. Under this interpretation, when a spren has been corrupted by Odium, it gains investiture from a third shard, thus the possibility of gaining a surge from Odium. This would imply new resonances as well.

So, there's a few things I've been wondering ever since Way of Kings. My original understanding was that all ten orders of Knight Radiant were of Honor, but further reading and Wyndel changed that for me - now it seems that there are 5 Honor-based and 5 Cultivation-based Knights - that is to say, 5 orders for spren of each shard. But there are three shards on Roshar, not two. This leads me to think that there are possibly 5 more orders, based on Odium-based spren, and that those five orders, and that there are five additional surges corresponding to it, for a total of 15 knights and 15 surges - and the double eye becomes a triple eye - or rather, the third eye is added. Then the thing with Renarin happened. At first, in Words of Radiance, I thought this evidence for the theory. But then we saw his spren, and the concept of a "corrupted" knight order came into being... and my theory shifted again. Or maybe perhaps now there's two competing theories. Now I see an order as having a bond between two surges - one from Honor, and one from Cultivation. Adding in Odium into the mix adds a third surge, possibly one of the hypothetical five from odium. I also wonder if that the sibling of the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather became one of these corrupted spren, and that's why the Stormfather won't speak of it to Dalanar (well, that or it was betrayed in the Recreance). What are y'alls thoughts on these two ideas? On the Third Eye with 15 Orders, or corrupted orders having 3 surges?

Been a fan of Sanderson for a few years now, and after the latest shardcast I wanted to give my 2 cents on theorycrafting ideas I have. Hopefully should be more active in the future, but with the new Monster Hunter game out I might need to get all that out of my system before I become more regular. Still, see y'all around the forums.