hoser

I am making plans to attend the Seattle signing and am hoping to ask some questions. I am collecting suggestions and gentle feedback on my initial thoughts. The following are some questions that I thought of: If Szeth put down his sword and someone else picked it up, would he still have his windrunner powers? Is Szeth's grandfather part of a resistance to Stone Shamanism? Do Stone Shamans deny the existence of Voidbringers? After the Recreance, did the Radiants rejoin Alethi society? Is Urithiru still intact as of the end of tWoK? Did any of the other orders abandon their weapons at the time of the Recreance in addition to the Stonewards and Windrunners? Is Szeth the first Truthless? Are the Vanrial community lighteyed? Are they descended from Radiants? Is the Tranquilline Halls a planet in the physical realm? Can Steelhunt codes be found there? Brilliant souls, what are better questions, and how can these be improved?

There is a chain of logic which makes honorspren voluntary splinters of Honor. Nohadon mentions honorspren and surgebinders. Nohadon was before the Radiants and may have helped create them. The Radiants were present before the Heralds packed it in. WoB that Honor was still intact around when the Heralds packed it in.

This thought of Gloom's seems brilliant to me. It seems so far out there, based on so little supporting evidence, that I can't say I believe in it. But it does explain the conundrum below, well described by Dros.

Nohadon laments the disunity and civil wars that predated the desolation including one led by a Surgebinder, saying "there are princes, kings,Soulcasters, Surgebinders. We never lack men or women who wish to lead." He just forgot about the Radiants. Entire kingdoms were wiped out in that desolation. He comments that the heralds had been forgotten. After the Radiants formed, there was a stable group of kingdoms. He wears the Radiant symbol and wrote their manual while having nothing to do with them. Interesting theory.

During the last Highstorm, I had this weird vision ... Do you think it predated them? They are the only ones who seem to have used it. Before Nohadon, there didn't even seem to be the Silver Kingdoms. There are a bunch of quotes in Windrunner's thread here. What is your thought?

There is a possible explanation for some of this. Maybe Szeth can't draw surgebind in Shardplate because of incompatible investiture. But the knights could surgebind and wear plate. So maybe there is "compatible" investiture. If Elhokar and Dalinar's plate have a "compatible" investiture, maybe Dalinar can draw from Elhokar's gems to save Elhokar's life. /ducks back into foxhole

Noone is saying that the heralds weren't formed until after the last desolation. That is directly contradicted by the Prelude. As I remember, the vision w/Nohadon was post- a not-last desolation. The point is that the Radiants didn't seem to exist at the time of Nohadon's vision (which must have been before the Prelude). If the Radiants were involved in the creation of Urithiru and Nohadon really walked from Abamabar to Urithiru, then the Radiants must have been founded during his lifetime. Based on the Prelude, I believe that the Heralds returned to be tortured immediately following desolations, so they wouldn't have been around. My sense is that desolations were separated by more than a single lifetime, otherwise people would have been entirely wiped out. So the Heralds would not have returned during Nohadon's lifetime. Of course, maybe Nohadon didn't really write "The Way of Kings."

Well, I am sure of nothing except that Brandon is leading us down some false trails where the obvious answer is not the final answer. Given my general accuracy, you should probably soulcast some salt deposits before reading any of my posts . One of the only tools I have to figure this stuff out is Occam's Razor. If Brandon gives us a world with Shardblades and lighteyed nobility and an explanation for how that came to be, I accept that unless I can find a solution that better explains something else. I can't disprove any theory not directly contradicted by WoB. I do think that a more complicated theory needs more of an explanation. If we accept Dalinar's vision of the Recreance, I think the radiants were "generally" the only lighteyes and the main people with Shardblades at that time. After the Recreance, we have a source of blades and, if the blades cause a permanent change in eye color, a simple process of might makes right leads us to a lighteyed nobility based on the information in the text. If you want to say that the blades we see in Alethi society are not the ones we saw distributed at the Recreance, then I think you should explain where the new blades came from and what happened to the old ones because there is no support for it in the text and it seems difficult and complicated. The onus of explanation is on you because you've created a story with no textual support that is counter to the story that is written in the text. One problem is why Syl hates Dalinar's weapon. There are many possible explanations: Only a Radiant bound to 5 oaths should bear a Shardblade It has an uncontrolled bloody history Radiants should create their own Shardblades Radiants should be provided shardblades by their spren Radiants should be provided shardblades by Honor the Shardblades changed after the Recreance the Shardblades were corrupted by Odium Only a Radiant with a spren should bear a Shardplate Syl has some association w/all Shardblades of that class Syl has some association w/that particular Shardblade The shardblades that the radiants abandoned at the Recreance are gone. These are different shardblades that got distributed somehow that Syl hates for some reason. One of these explanations is not like the others. We know from WoB that we've seen three types of blades. Szeth's blade behaves differently based on the information in the text, ergo, it is different. My personal theory, which has no textual support, and I would not ask anyone else to disprove, is that the sword is providing Szeth with windrunning powers. The powers and the sapphire eye color either naturally go together in the world's magic system or are together for Windrunners. If it is because they are together for the Windrunners, then maybe the sword was made by corrupting or destroying an honorspren somehow.

Yeah, I can pretty much see all that it might be as you say, Gloom, with one small exception. I think that any heralds that died would have returned w/Taln, so I'm pretty sure they are all alive, either never having died or newly returned somewhere.

Well, we know that Dalinar is maybe doing glowy (invested) things. We know that Elhokar sees cryptics in the mirror. Maybe they both have spren bonds in the early stages and aren't aware of it. A highly implausible theory would be that their respective spren both decided to help facilitate the transfer of stormlight to save both bondees lives. To take the speculation to the height of absurdity, we could suggest that Elhokar's cryptic somehow facilitated the transfer through Shadesmar. This is pure speculation, lacking all evidence, so please be gentle.

If you reread the Starfall vision, you will see that the Radiant eyeglow is independant of when they have summoned their swords. I believe that it is about them infusing stormlight. The Radiantblades also have the effect of lightening the eyes permanently, which I believe underlies the Alethi nobility system. Another distinction is that Szeth's blade has no enduring effect on his eye color. When he unsummons it, his eyes return to their normal color. Sure. Some random Radiantblade from some vision is a different in a way that no-one has noticed, but the one that clearly acts differently and has a unique provenance is not actually different.

I like this. I might once have even suggested something similar, but I think the clear exposition deserves full credit and an upvote!

So these recordings are being directly made for Dalinar to become a Herald? Do you not believe then that others have seen these recordings also, as one of the epigraphs seems to indicate? There is some evidence that the Radiants were established during Nohadon's lifetime, post-desolation, when there would have been no heralds around. The prelude and starfall vision seem to indicate that the Radiants seemed independant of the Heralds. Millenia later, people said that the Radiants followed the Heralds. I think they followed the same ideals, but I find little contemporaneous support for the idea that the Heralds "established and led the KR." The following snippet seems to me to support the entirely opposite conclusion: I don't doubt that the Radiants respected, maybe even revered, the Heralds, but their establishment and leadership seem independant.

Talenal's blade is not present, so it is not being described. When we see it later, it is clear that it doesn't fit the description. However, Jezrien's and Kalak's are also not being described, so they could be relatively plain. Well, unless you buy the theory that someone confiscated all the Shardblades and Shardplate and replaced them with different Shardblades and Shardplate without anybody noticing, the question I have for you is: Brandon claims that we've seen three types of Shardblades, after Radiantblades and Honorblades, what is the third kind of Shardblade? Szeth's seems unique with the eye color effect and history.

On reflection, my tone seems inappropriately harsh. I apologize, 11thorderknight, for the tone. Please forgive me. I do not follow the logic here at all, though. What? How are classic and modern plate obviously different? If the modern Blades aren't leftover from the Recreance, where did they come from? And what happened to the Blades left behind at the Recreance? By definition, as you've set it up. Lost me again here. I agree with the conclusion, but the above seems like a non-sequitur. There are dozens of modern Shardbearers who are apparently w/o spren bearing "modern" blades, the only known source for which is the "classic" blades at the Recreance. I don't follow your process of elimination. All I see is a process of assumption. From the prelude, each Honorblade (including Jezrien's) is a "masterly work of art, flowing in design, inscribed with glyphs and patterns." From the prologue, Szeth's sword is "long and thin, edged on both sides, smaller than most others". Taln's eyes when bearing his Honorblade do not lighten or glow. So Szeth's blade doesn't look like Jezrien's blade and the eye thing that Szeth's sword does is not what Taln's sword does, so it doesn't match anything we know about Honorblades. Even if the sword is the source of Szeth's powers, which we have no evidence in support of, it could still be the third kind of Shardblade that gives the powers.

Well, I used to espouse the idea that Szeth had Jezrien's Honorblade until we learned that we had seen 3 kinds of Shardblades. I then jumped ship and decided that Szeth's was the third kind and not an honorblade.

Ah, clarity. That one. I remember it being marble, but it doesn't really matter what it was. Thanks. Why do I even try to communicate? Do we violently agree now? Can I shut up?

We know they are in debt. I think you acquire debt by borrowing. To borrow, they need collateral. What collateral do they not have anymore? More deposits in the quarries. It seems simple to me. What am I missing?

Actually, I think they are fake quarries, because the surface deposits don't represent the deeper vein that they would normally represent, so however they were monetized was likely fraudulent and w/o the Soulcaster, unsustainable.

When I read the last 4 paragraphs of Chapter 3, the point is clear. However he monetized the fake quarries, once he died and the Soulcaster stopped working, they are bankrupt. If he had survived with an intact Soulcaster, the risks would have been minimal, as he could create more resources w/the Soulcaster or from being highprince. What am I missing?

Why not Helaran? You make sure he is committed and the family's future is already tied to you anyway. He's probably busier, so a mysterious trip is not that easy to arrange. This also ties the whole family to the Ghostbloods. He has alienated many in his bid to become Highprince. He has sold off fake quarries that he has created with his Ghostblood ally Luesh. He is basically all in on becoming Highprince. If he wanted to be secure, he would have stayed as a minor rural house. Betraying the Ghostbloods at this point would invite retribution and mean giving up on his plans. It's not like he enjoyed hanging out w/his family. He knows they are deadly and seem to have plenty of shardblades. The Ghostbloods could even outfit Nan Heleran in Alethkar, leaving his family as virtual hostages (assuming they don't know about the other Shardblade).

Sure, but he isn't giving them entire Shards of Adonalsium anytime soon.

Just spitballin' here. Well, even if Odium could trust an obedient soul, he probably wouldn't. Given his intent, souls that would obey him would hate him. Even a soul that intended to obey Odium would have their intent warped by whatever Shard they picked up. Once a soul has picked up a Shard, control seems like it might be difficult.

I agree that the evidence for the Shardbearer being Shallan's brother is not strong. The main reason I believe in it is the dramatic possibilities. There is one statement in the OP that does not fit my understanding of the situation. My understanding is that Amaram's forces were ascendent at the time the Shardbearer appeared. Amaram had a pattern of allowing an early advance to overwhelm his green troops, then counterattacking. He had done that again and was essentially winning when the Shardbearer appeared.

Thanks to everyone associated with creating this. That was great! I'm not sure, but I think weight would fit better than way in the two places indicated below: “I’m not a god, Teft,” Kaladin said. “I can’t hold back the way (weight?) of ten armies.” He turned to the other two. “We decided to stay here on the Shattered Plains. Why?” ... But storm it, Syl likes Dalinar. That carried away (a weight?) with Kaladin, perhaps more than it should. I believe the "inintelligible" in the segment below should be "ardent". slaves kept scraggly, unkempt beards so Bridge Four would be clean-shaven or at least keep their beards neat. Teft’s was light brown where it hadn’t gone gray and he kept it short and square, almost like that of an [unintelligible (ardent)].