hoser

There is another way to look at Wyndle's quote. It only mentions cryptics and honorspren. The possibility that jumps out at me is that all bonding spren fit into these two super-types (is that even a word for non-programmers? Maybe I can hyphenate it.). Since I believe that the bonding spren are of honor, cultivation or a mixture and honorspren are likely more of honor, I theorize that Wyndle is a kind of cryptic. If all the Wyndle-type spren are cryptics, then they could come and admire his/sculptures too. Maybe all spren related more to cultivation are known generically as cryptics. Digression: Making sculptures out of people's thoughts. Creepy! What effect would that have on the people whose thoughts are being sculpted? Yikes!

I guess I'll consider you to be voting for intimidation. Seems reasonable, except he goes off on his minion about following the law. Wouldn't any legal system have laws against threatening people, especially judges? After the first time you do it, doesn't somebody issue an APB on you?

Good catch. Although he is carrying a fabrial of unknown vintage. My totally unsupported theory is that he gets the windrunning from the sword, which I do not believe to be an honorblade.

I understand the point being made, but I can't agree with this statement. They seem honorable in some ways, but not others. There is nothing honorable about breaking a treaty. If you learn new information, honorable people communicate, negotiate and ultimately cancel the treaty publicly before sending an assassin. There is nothing honorable about sending an assassin to kill an ally. It doesn't matter what color clothing the assassin is wearing. The fact that the Parshendi have customs for sending assassins proves that they are not consistently honorable. Eshonai doesn't confront Dalinar until he is weakened by prolonged fighting. If Eshonai had wanted to communicate with Dalinar, she should have done so before there were many thousands of dead around the Tower. She didn't engage until the Alethi Shardbearers had been weakened by mowing down many thousand Parshendi. The Parshendi seem to have no compunction about killing unarmed bridgeman slaves (although maybe they don't know they are slaves). Giving them credit for not attacking the weak when they are happy to mow them down under certain circumstances doesn't show the whole picture.

I agree with the thesis. There are a variety of explanations for the Second Ideal powerup, so I am not sure whether that applies. The instance MadRand brought up where Kaladin falls from the bridge seems to be a clearer application of an unexplained power. Kaladin does something magical to amplify his voice when yelling to Adolin in the tower battle and sound waves are also pressure.

What do we know? Supra-national organization with at least one surgebinder, multiple Shardblades and at least one live larkin (therefore well connected and funded) They have paperwork from the "arbiters" for outlandish punishment They are able to get the Prime Minister equivalent to accept their intrusion and performance of the ridiculous punishment Purpose: avert Desolation by killing nahel-bond surgebinders Means: find minor infractions and use as an excuse to perform summary executions Range: seen in Alethkar, Iri and Azir Reputation: known to and accepted by Azish government, never mentioned in WoK Leadership: Darkness is the only leader we've seen, has minions, but operates alone sometimes Darkness refers to the Edgedancers as if he knew them, whichsuggests that he's effectively immortal if he is alive at all Lift sees him as dead Wyndle calls him an abomination Questions: Are they the reason Teft's family hid their activities?; Did they kill Teft's family's cell? Darkness can infuse, but has he shown any other surgebinding abilities? Does Nahel-bond surgebinding really bring on desolations? What is Darkness? Herald (Nalan?); zombie/lifeless/undead/lich lord; corrupted surgebinder, corrupted radiant, corrupted non-surgebinder What is the source of Darkness' abilities? Being a herald, magic sword, other magic item, Nahel bond? What is the deal with Darkness's scar? Is it related to his corruption? How do they gather their intelligence? How do they follow Lift? Are they associated with the Vorin church? The Ghostbloods? Are they wearing the local uniform? If they are local enforcement, how can they travel all over? How do they get the "arbiters" to accept them if they are not local enforcement? Intimidation? bribery? or do they forge the documents?; Wouldn't all these things be against the law? What's up w/these guys? What have I missed? What have I got wrong? edited: incorporate ideas from Gloom, agrooster, Windrunner, marianmi, Argent

I basically agree with this and offer a quote in support: Smarter people than I observed that there are not all the random spren in Dalinar's visions. That would make sense if they are the result of Honor splintering, since he hadn't been splintered yet. I think if Odium started collecting bits of Honor, once amalgamated, the intent would reassert itself. So I doubt that Odium would risk the resulting pollution.

Certainly. But in context it makes no sense. Worshippers may pray to Jezrien, but here we have the announcement of a monarch and his first act. Said monarch is, in fact, present. Jezrien is nowhere present or relevent. Whatever worshippers do when they pray doesn't really matter. What is relevent is that there is a new ruler and the wish that he rules wisely. The references to Prime Kadasix seem formulaic and irrelevant. Further, there is no evidence that Jezrien is drooling in any way. When seen in the Prelude, he doesn't resemble the drunkard at all.

When Szeth gets the original list, he says it is a list of names (not titles, so he couldn't know the name of the second Azish Prime after he killed the first) and comments on the presence of monarchs and highprinces, but no Azish Primes. He completed the original list before the end of the Way of Kings. His first order of business is to go after Dalinar. To me this indicates that Szeth survives the attempt on Dalinar and is following further orders from Mr. T when he kills the Azish Primes.

I guess it partly depends on what you believe about the history of the Rosharans. I think Jezrien was a king on the Tranquilline halls before he became a Herald and the Heralds were chosen and fought there before arriving on Roshar. So Nalan could not be from Makabaki. Even if the Heralds were from prehistoric Roshar, the desolations would have accelerated evolutionary trends. While the origins of the Makabaki story seems somewhat unlikely, I suspect that they were mostly wiped out in a desolation. I think the Silver Kingdoms were post-Nohadon and long after the Heralds were chosen. As I said, darkness resembling the Makabaki could be coincidence. If Darkness didn't fit the racial types like Shallash, it would be stronger evidence that he was a Herald IMO. Excellent explanation. Upvote for you. An interesting thing to look for with Darkness is what abilities he demonstrates. If he can bind surges like the knights of Nalan's corresponding order (skybreakers) he should be able to fly, change things' gravitational vector and blow things up. The only evidence I see so far is that he does seem to travel quite widely, but of course any ability can be replicated by a fabrial also. While I can see that he wouldn't want to fly around the palace, apparently she has gotten away from him before. It should be quite difficult to escape someone who can fly. Edit: surgebinding abilities

Why would anyone pay a fortune for the dead body? Maybe someone knows how to use the bodies to make objects with their abilities. Consider the use of plurals in the Brandon quote below. It seems likely that they have more than one ability. What else can they do?

It certainly seems possible for it to be Nalan, but there are discordant details: He is described as Azish, whereas Shallash doesn't fit the racial types on Roshar. If as some believe, the Heralds predate Honor bringing his people to Roshar, the types very well might not match. Of course, Nalan could coincidentally fit the Azish racial profile. Szeth is quite certain that the sword comes from the Shamans, and the Shamans will retrieve it. In addition to the other discrepancies with the idea that Szeth's sword is an Honorblade, it belonging to some of the constables doesn't fit unless the constables are working with the Shamans. But the Shamans deny the existence of Voidbringers and the constables claim to be averting a desolation, so I doubt the Shamans and the constables are working together. All that we know of the plan for the Heralds was that they were to separate and leave the swords. While plans can change over the millenia, it seems odd to completely reverse course. If the injustice of Darkness's actions is evidence of his being a Herald because the attributes are reversed, then why is he confident? Shouldn't the confidence be reversed also? He should be unjust and uncertain. The Heralds are the only effective immortals that we know, but it is clear that we know very little really. If one Shardic investment can make the Heralds immortal, then another could make Darkness immortal.

Thanks, Argent. Steelhunt spoiler

I am not willing to quote Steelhunt content, but this quote is out of context, IMO. In context, it can be seen as referring to someone other than Jezrien.

There is WoB that there are spren that are splinters of Adonalsium on Roshar. This means to me that there is a significant investiture from Adonalsium on Roshar that persists. I imagine that the investiture of Adonalsium on Roshar doesn't compare to a full Shard, but I don't really know, so it is worth considering.

Excellent! A few minor thoughts. I don't see the surface tension thing making the metal flexible. The size does adjust (which doesn't seem like a surface tension thing), but after that the movement ability seems to come from the design and not the metal flexing (otherwise why have multiple pieces with joints). In addition to the Regrowth Fabrial from the Starfalls vision, there are Soulcasters, Oathgates and other fabrials that the Radiants made that the Bondsmiths could make.

What an excellent set of thoughts. Not only are there apparent lightning bolts, but the background of the central area seems like stormclouds. Many of the large icons (not the glyphs) seem like they could be stylized creatures. Others have noted that the glyphs are semi-reversed versions of the glyphs in the Radiant chart. The woman in the frame seems significant and one hand is dark. Could she be Cultivation with the one hand helping and the other pruning or the Nightwatcher with curses and boons. The colors are bright on top and dull below. I assume it is a diagram of a magic system like the Radiant chart. Mistborn spoiler: Brandon has said there are thirty magic systems on Roshar, but I don't know what he is counting. If we think of the ten powersets of the Radiants as ten magic systems we could get to thirty by having three ways to access them. Accessing the powersets through the Nahel bond, fabrials and creatures could correspond to an Honor system, an Honor-Cultivation shared system and a Cultivation system. Odium could work by corrupting these systems. This could be a chart of the Cultivation system. Or we could look at the ten Radiant powersets as one system and look for systems for each of the three shards and combinations. I count seven combinations: one for each Shard, one for each pair of Shards and one for all three. This chart could be the Cultivation/Odium system. I don't know how to get to thirty from seven though. But Adonalsium has invested on Roshar also. With 4 Shards, we get 15 combinations (4 single, 6 double, 4 triple and one quadruple). Fifteen is half of thirty. Could there be an additional duality making the thirty magic systems? This chart could be a Cultivation/Adonalsium system. Magic we've seen: Radiants Corrupted essences: Midnight essence, thunderclasts Nightwatcher blessing/curses Creature-based: Reshi islands, Aimians (two kinds), larkin, Parshendi Radiant fabrials Modern fabrials And I still have no clue about what voidbringing might be. It could even include some of the above.

I share the curiosity. I think it tells us about Shallan, also. The back cover refers to her as having a thief's heart. Stealing a Shardblade and a Soulcaster both would both cause "achievement unlocked". I can definitely see her wanting to get out of the house and into the world. She says, and I believe, that she did not understand the political ramifications, which only apply if she is discovered.

According to Dalinar the kingdom of Natanatan fell some centuries before the events of the way of Kings (Starfalls vision). If the destroyed city were the capital, that could sure help the kingdom fall. At the least, a few centuries before is the latest the city could have fallen. The Kingdom of Natanatan was one of the original silver kingdoms and seemingly existed prior to the last desolation (Starfalls vision). The Desolation was won in many places. The swords were left at the rendez-vous of the heralds, which had no apparent significance to anyone else. The events described above seem possible, but to me something like the Recreance vision seems more likely. Shardblades are too valuable to go unused.

Apparently he did do it. Consider what he said to Szeth: "You can tell Thaidakar that he's too late." And Taravangian in chapter 71: "But the dying see something. It began seven years ago, about the time that Gavilar was investigating the Shattered Plains for the first time."

They do match one of the circle icons in the gem chart, except they are inverted (assuming bottom of icon = toward center of Kharbranth picture). In the Kharbranth picture they look like head-on larkin rather than crabs. If they are larkin, could all 10 of the large icons in the gem chart be representations of creatures?

The translated Navani notebook pages describe modern fabrials that cut gems to trap specific spren. The spren and the stormlight are the invested elements. The radiant-era fabrials (Soulcasters, Regrowth, Shardblades, Shardplate, Oathgates (we don't know whether Oathgates have invested metal yet)) all have invested metal and the gems are generic and easily replaced (as Jasnah does with her soulcaster, she doesn't seem to care about the cut and whether a spren has been trapped inside). Consider what Navani says about Shardblades and Shardplate just before the Nohadon vision: Consider this chart with WoB and confirmation from Peter: Stonewards do not have access to the Growth surge. The Stoneward must be using a fabrial. It seems obvious to me that the fabrial she is using is the one she is holding.

The new fabrials don't necessarily work like the old ones. If we believe Navani, they definitely do not. Soulcasters are invested objects. The metal must be the invested part, since the gems are disposable. Modern fabrial "science" does not invest metal. If some act of investiture (performed by a Bondsmith?) creates the invested metal object, what happens when cut by a Shardblade? Shardblades sever connections to the spiritual or cognitive realm. What happens to the "soul" of the Soulcaster? It is either split in two or destroyed. Welding the metal will not recreate the act of investiture that created the fabrial, nor merge the pieces of the fabrial's "soul".

Consider Starfalls: as the knights appear: Shardplate is glowing, with etched glyphs that leak vapor; eyes are glowing While talking: armor not glowing, except large Radiant symbol; eyes glowing, leaking When flying:armor glows Consider the Recreance vision: The armor glows at joints and on glyphs across the front the blades glow for a while after abandoned, then fade when walking away, their eyes are extremely light, but they are not glowing. Possible ways for Knights Radiant to get their stormlight: Gems in their armor serving as sink/source/battery Armor serving as sink/source/battery Blade serving as sink source battery Access directly from the source as needed Gems external to the armor charged by highstorms As for Szeth, I believe that he is right, but what is true for him is not true for the Radiants in their own armor. Whether compatible investments or some other explanation applies, I don't know. Based on the above data, we can make some deductions. In the Recreance vision, some of the windrunners flew in, so they must have been infusing. When they walk away almost immediately they don't seem to be glowing. Assuming they can't just make it go away, their stormlight must be in the armor or the swords. Either they made sure they had none or nearly none or they found a way to sink it in their equipment or directly to another realm. The armor glows when the powers are in use and only a glyph and sometimes the joints when the powers are not in use. If infusing the armor to make it glow were the way the Radiants store their energy, this pattern would be reversed. So the glowing armor is not for stormlight storage. The armor glowing reminds me of Syl's antics when Kaladin is doing his spearfighting thing. This matches what we saw when Dalinar saved Elhokar from the Chasmfiend. The armor glowed in sympathy with the use of power, but not before or after. I do not believe that I have really eliminated any possibility. The armor could store the stormlight without glowing. The swords are permanently linked to the cognitive and/or spiritual realm, so they could be source and/or sink for stormlight. The gems in the armor are already essentially batteries that can source stormlight to Radiants. If Radiants can sink the stormlight into the gems, then it could explain what is happening. If the Radiants can access and vent the stormlight directly to whichever realm it is coming from, that would work too. I believe Occam's razor suggests that the gems are the batteries, but given the likely richness of this magic system, that seems like a weak argument.

Well, they were just left in the ground near an active battlefield. I suppose they could be magically cloaked somehow, but there is no indication of that in the Prelude. Rampant totally unfounded speculation starts here. In 4500 years, I will go with the thought that they were found rather than mounded over with crem. But there seems to be no record or history of them. What force would have the discipline to find them and not use them? I'll go with the Radiants. Even if they didn't find them initially, if someone else found them and started abusing them, the Radiants would have stopped them. So the Radiants put them somewhere. Going further out on this limb: The Radiants have stored them in Urithiru.