hoser

@Windrunner. Well, I'm confused. Again. Or I miscommunicated. Again. I think that what I was saying is perfectly consistent with the quote you offered. The shardic intent is absolute and not altered by the bearer. I am saying nothing about the subsequent actions taken by the bearer. So when you say that the subsequent actions are somewhat dependent on the bearer, it does not bear on the veracity of the statement I attempted to make. Does that make sense?

Two first posts! Welcome Ren and Clueless! Upvotes all around! The only clue that I am aware of relating to the cause of Szeth's punishment is in the prologue and talks about voidbringers existence. I don't see a direct correlation between setting foot on Urithiru and the voidbringers, so I am inclined to doubt that he is being punished for merely stepping in a taboo place. The punishment seems extreme also. We also don't know why he would do that, given the consequences you outline. I do think reconciling the Voidbringers quote would make your theory stronger. Mentally, I have trouble reconciling the Radiants, who are all about stormlight and spren, establishing Urithiru in a place that has neither. But that might just be my lack of imagination speaking. We do have a quote in one of the chapter headings that Urithiru is to the west of Alethela, which certainly fits Shinovar. I generally like theories that can explain multiple mysteries in a single leap of intuition. The quote about Urithiru being to the west of Alethela is a bit of a problem for this theory, but people have found ways around it, proposing Urithiru being teleported, a floating city that moved or discounting the quote. On a meta level my biggest problem with this theory is that there is so much buildup around Urithiru that it seems like there should be more to it than a pile of rubble.

So Shallan picked up the shardblade to make it seem like an assassin killed her father? And they are not worried about the assassin coming back because they are no longer a political threat? Seems like a reasonable explanation for why they are not worried about figuring out "who done it" to me. So that gives two viable scenarios at this point. One scenario has Nan Balat believing that Shallan killed her father and the other has it done by a mysterious assassin who disappeared. The mysterious assassin scenario could become a mysterious assassin with a shardblade scenario if the Davars think that the soulcaster damage had to have been done by a shardblade. In either scenario I still think that Shallan got the shardblade when her father died. The earlier incident had a younger Shallan and another party apparently in control. The party in control would have every reason to take a shardblade himself and none to let Shallan take it and keep it. The earlier incident seems like it could even be a suppressed memory for Shallan at the end of tWoK.

I believe that Shallan is known to have killed her father based upon deduction. If they didn't know who killed him,their primary concern would be who did it. Their concern is with the medium term financial viability and not "who done it", so I conclude that the killer is known. I read the selection you mentioned, but I don't see how she gets a shardblade in that situation. I also think the 'caster was broken when her father died, but I was just enumerating possibilities to choose the preferred option, because the only absolute is my ignorance.

But we know that Mr. T is in fact very powerful and effective. The question I have is: What does Mr. T gain by letting this go on? How does it fit in his plan? It's like where he asks Jasnah to do soulcasting for him when his men do it just to show off to Szeth when giving him the assassination list. Mr. T's men got in to where Szeth was trying to do the assassination and could have left the same way. Instead they soulcast a hole in a wall. Relating to the thread, the soulcasting that Mr. T asked Jasnah to do seems like a test. If she didn't soulcast the way people do with the fabrial, then not only is she using a spren, but Mr. T may have suspected it and may now know what she is doing.

Purely hypothesizing ... Assumptions: Shallan killed her father: because she thinks she did and the cryptic agrees. Nan Balat knows that she killed her father, but doesn't know she has a shardblade: because they are not trying to figure out who killed their father and aren't using the shardblade to better their lot, instead betting on the insanely long shot that Shallan can get away with stealing a working Soulcaster. Shallan didn't have the Shardblade before she killed her father: she was sequestered, how would she get it; she calls it "the fruit of her sin, the proceeds of her most horrible act" Deductions: Her father was not killed with the shardblade: If the eyes had been burned out, Nan Balat would have wondered where the shardblade went. Why would the father have given Shallan the shardblade?Possibilities: As Gloom (better than Doom or Ookla) suggested: Soulcaster cut by the mundane weapon she used to kill her father. Cut before Davar senior died. Cut by shardblade accidentally when Shallan cut her father after his death (maybe in an effort to hide something about the real means of death?) Cut by someone else posthumously with a mundane weapon. Fact: It is described as sheared in two places, one across a gem setting. Question: What could shear through a gem setting (and presumably a gem also) without being deflected? Maybe this is a hint that it was a shardblade cut.

Well, if the ability to form the Nahel Bond was not available before, then there could be any number of triggers. Maybe it's what Szeth is being punished for .

If there is only one level of bonding, then he has it, because he can retrieve it from wherever they go when released and not willed to remain. So it seems to me that you are hypothesizing multiple levels of bonding. Of course, if you already believe it's an honorblade, then I suppose the other level of bonding might be through the Oathpact or inherent in the relevent herald.

I agree that it is not the assassination of the vedan king. The scale of the room, the number of tables and the scale of the slaughter seem totally different. I am puzzled at the reasoning for not believing it is not Shallan's father. The memories you quote may not have happened at the same time. The word "memories" instead of "a memory" suggests that they didn't. The other clue that they weren't simultaneous is that Nan Balat doesn't show any signs of knowing that she has a shardblade (that I recall).The contents of the picture could have been something that she was suppressing more deeply or she just didn't remember at that time. The dining room could have been at the Davar mansion because she had been basically sequestered there until she went to find Jasnah. The father was trying to become highprince, so he better not have a threadbare dining room. If you kill someone with a Shardblade, then cut them again with it, you could get the pool of blood (if you are not careful, you will cut the person in half). I know nothing, obviously, but the scene seems consistent to me with her having seen a battered Nan Balat and later murdered her father. Or infinite other possibilities that I lack the creativity to come up with. The sheared Soulcaster is a problem for which I can only construct implausible scenarios.

I admire the thoughtful presentation and basically agree with the conclusion about where the Heralds go as posted above. I don't understand how you supported the conclusion in the section below. We know that Hoid travels through Shadesmar to planet hop. It seems that Shallan and Jasnah were in Shadesmar also. So I don't see why the Heralds would have had to suicide to get there. Apparently it is possible to physically travel to Shadesmar at least.

Yes. That is, I would say that the statement is true if it is an image of any recognizable part of the honorblades. P.S. I hope the below is a server artifact. Fatal error: Out of memory (allocated 0) (tried to allocate 517781808 bytes) in Unknown on line 0

Ask and you shall receive (please let me know if the link works, the spreadsheet is obviously not finished). It's security through obscurity, so please be honorable.

Here's one: Chapter 26 "Stillness" p467-468 of the paperback. He is caught between the "Thrill" and a strange revulsion. I don't know whether the revulsion is from his spren or not, but then he experiences thoughts that seem alien to him: "Once these weapons meant protecting, a voice inside of him whispered." "Life before death. What was that voice?"

Edit 2: I would be happy to add a new claim, but not with the word "may" in it. The claim with "may" seems to me like it could never be wrong. So please let me know whether you want to claim that Nohadon "did" or "did not" and I will add the issue. 23. I take this as a vote, but not a new claim. Please let me know if I misunderstood. 29. Yes! Love the idea of Renarin creating huge explosions. 33. I think the "real" means reasonably graphic, so I take this as "Agree". 34. Since it specifically says "this thread", it does exclude theories from other threads. In any case, I am not going to go through every theory in every thread to verify a claim.

This seems like a distinct possibility. I personally find it hard to believe for two reasons. Szeth has a line in the prelude about his honor demanding that Voidbringers exist and his punishment insists that they do not. If his punishment insists that Voidbringers not exist, then it hard to imagine rules concerning the nonexistent Voidbringers. His honor depending on the existence of voidbringers suggests that his "crime" involves the Voidbringers. Picking up a Shardblade seems irrelevant. Mr. T says that he was given the Shardblade by his people and he doesn't disagree. That suggests to me that it is part of his punishment.

I don't know about confirmation, but your thoughts match the general belief. They are generally Heralds and the masked man is Hoid. Here is a thread about it.

I see a problem with maintaining low status warriors. How do you keep them from taking over and elevating their status? My favored solution is high-status Stone Shamans that kick butt whenever the low status warriors get uppity. So I doubt the low status warriors have shardblades, but I think the Stone Shamans absolutely do. These powerful Stone Shamans would recover Szeth's blade. Going further out on a limb, Szeth talks about his shardblade being unique. I imagine ten unique shardblades with the powersets of the different radiant orders.

This thread might be better placed in the Stormlight Archive forum . Someone brilliant (maybe Gloom) proposed a theory similar to the following: The Heralds return to their planet of origin (Tranquilline Halls) when they died. Originally that planet was not controlled by Odium and wasn't a place of torture. Honor, humanity and the Heralds were chased off that planet and, under Odium's control, it became the place of torture. This makes more sense to me than anything else, as Honor deliberately consigning his champions to hell just seems wrong.

You may want to have this thread moved to the Stormlight Archive section. It seems specific to that series and you will likely get more information there. 1. In the Starfall vision, it is apparently the runup to a Desolation. They talk about Urithiru as existing already. Nohadon talks in the tWoK (in-world version) about walking from Abamabar to Urithiru. Natanatan was one of the silver kingdoms and was referenced in the Starfall vision. There is no evidence that I am aware of supporting the notion that Urithiru and the Silver Kingdoms didn't exist until after the last desolation. It's your theory, but throwing out all the evidence we have for a completely unsupported conclusion seems sketchy to me. 2. Before the Recreance, there is no evidence that anyone but the Heralds and the Radiants had Shardblades. In the Nohadon vision, he reviews the leadership of the world and does not mention Shardbearers. In the Prelude it shows the Radiant as being equipped in a much more powerful way than the other fighters. If somebody besides the Radiants knew how to make Shardblades, how did the knowledge become lost? While it isn't proof, I consider the default assumption to be that Shardblades were only available to Heralds before the Radiants formed. 3. You make a good point. We really don't know how the Radiants and the Heralds interacted. However, your OP states definitively that the Heralds took over the Radiants. I would recommend that you at least change it to say "may have taken control" rather than "took control". Hoping this helps ...

It is hard to puzzle these things out from the few snippets we are given. I would like to gently suggest some edits. I think the Silver Kingdoms existed before the Heralds packed it in. According to Jasnah, Urithiru was the center of the Silver Kingdoms, with a throne for each of the kings. Nohadon had his time for the sword. Maybe the Silver Kingdoms were the result. Basically, I think the Radiants helped establish the Silver Kingdoms while the Heralds weren't around. What? In the Nohadon vision, we see thunderclasts. There are other sources of information than the Heralds. Kaladin learned about the second oath and the properties of the Nahel bond manifested without the Heralds. Honor was still around also. I don't agree with this. I do agree with the section you crossed out that follows. While legend has it that the Heralds led the orders, the prelude shows them operating independently. So I agree with Natans above and suggest the following be stricken:

She may very well be capable of Traveling. It seems that she had arrived in Kharbranth not long before Shallan did, as Shallan witnessed her bargaining for access to the Palaneum. That suggests that she made the leg before Kharbranth by conventional means. She could have made some hops by Traveling, but it also seems possible that she spent short amounts of time in most places and Shallan was slowly catching up the whole time. There may be limits on Traveling. The woman Radiant in the Starfall vision didn't appear until after the Windrunner. Traveling may require some sort of target (relative or absolute), so the Stoneward couldn't Travel there until the Windrunner established a target somehow (otherwise, all the Stonewards would have arrived first or the Windrunners might have teleported because it would have been faster). So if Jasnah hadn't been to Kharbranth previously, she might not have been able to Travel there. Elantris spoiler:

Upvote for your pain. I sort of remembered that quote, but was too lazy to track it down.

Welcome! Starting a thread with your first post seems brilliant. Have an upvote. This seems like an interesting idea. One minor issue about forum etiquette. People in this forum may not have read Mistborn yet, so IIRC it is customary to include references to other works in spoiler tags (I know this doesn't always happen, but I think it is polite). I have trouble with this theory because when I compare gems to the examples of the solid bodies of Shards that I can think of. Solid bodies of Shards: rare unique (planet-specific) do amazing things Mistborn spoiler So while gems are used to do amazing things, they seem more comparable other allomantic metals (what Araris said) than the body of a Shard to me. They seem to be normal gems and are common enough to be used as currency, lighting and in reasonably common fabrials. Gems are used in the magic of Roshar, but the Shardic investiture seems to be more in the spren and the stormlight as I see it.

Umm, yeah? Kill the woman? Have the woman watch you kill her uncle? Be a nearly insane mass murderer choosing to slavishly obey anybody who carries a certain stone? Serve a serial-killing old person that on his "good days" thinks that depriving the world of all other effective leadership on the eve of a crisis is a good idea? Serve someone who on his "bad days" is not allowed to lead? Totally cracked. But, Brandon.

I like Kalasnah because it has issues of age and status. I wonder whether they are both too serious to attract each other and I haven't a clue about Jasnah's orientation. Shallan/Kaladin seems too predictable. OTOH, they mesh well on the flippant wordplay, which recalls Kaladin's mother to him and seems positive. Kaladin's steadiness could be attractive to Shallan. She could distract him more effectively than Syl, helping him out of his depressive side. If it turns out that Kaladin killed her brother, that could cause interesting issues on both sides. If Jasnah does find men interesting, I enjoy imagining the most cracked ship possible: JaSzeth. I imagine Szeth failing in the assassination of Dalinar and convincing himself to give up his Truthless ways. They are both accomplished mature people. I don't really have a feel for Szeth's personality or what Jasnah would find attractive though. This provides the most interesting murder-of-family-member issues. At this point Szeth seems like the Gollum of this series, so definitely a cracked possibility.