hoser

Hey, fun theory! Welcome to the forums! Please forgive me if I get a bit detail-oriented. When Gavilar is killed, he tells Szeth it is too late, implying that something important is already done (presumably whatever the Parshendi wanted to avoid (my assumption). The Desolation is apparently on the way and the death rattles started at about that time (according to Taravangian). I think the Desolation coming means that the Parshendi gods will return. But the parshmen haven't been freed. There is no indication that I can see that their status was changed recently. Actually, Nohadon complains that not all spren are as discerning as honorspren (or words to that effect). Apparently a surgebinder had made a somewhat selfish bid for power, creating a war on the eve of the desolation. Although, some claim that Nohadon rewrote the rules for surgebinding. Do we know this? I believe that he has Surgebinding because of the Shardblade that is bound to him. In the Eshonai point of view, she implies that they are relatively recently in the area. They may not even have been on Roshar. Clearly they are not honoring the oaths to their Gods. Why do they have any forms? Some quotes from the readings: If the Parshendi had been living where the warcamps are, it doesn't seem like an expedition would be needed to discover the Shattered Plains. Edit: added quotes

Yes! (Although I think you are being facetious) I want a subscription to Brandon. I want to be able to read an unedited electronic copy now, and get a nice copy in March. I'll sign an NDA.

Yeah, I don't think that Szeth would balk at a death either. I do think that he is vulnerable through his motivation, though. Apparently he voluntarily took on the punishment of the Stone Shamans to do something to defy the Voidbringers. He seems resigned to the coming Desolation. If he saw some hope, he could defy the Shamanic punishment for the same reason he brought it on in the first place. He also has two constraints: he can't take his own life and he can't give up the sword. If he was put in a dilemma where he had to do one or the other, it seems to me that he could crack. OTOH, he could end up hating himself and everyone else and become Odium's champion. That seems like an assumption to me. In isolation, it seems reasonable. If Kaladin had a relationship/bond with two different spren, I would tend to agree. Since Kaladin can access both gravity and pressure surges and apparently only has a bond with one spren, it doesn't seem to be the way it works. Does Occam cut here? Sorry, I misunderstood. I believe that Brandon has said that certain numbers are important on certain parts of the Cosmere. On Roshar, 10. On the Mistborn planet, 16. I can try to dig up the quote if you want. I apologize. The best part of my intention is to learn and share information. The extent that my desire to be right and smart has interfered is not helpful. Please forgive me. Apparently Navani thinks that that is how it works. Her translated notebooks say that that is what is going on. To me, it dovetails with that interlude with the ardent spren researchers. But Navani could be wrong too, I suppose. Welcome to the 17th Shard and please keep sharing your insights.

This book is set in the "Cosmere", which does include other planets on which horses, chickens, grass etc thrive. The earth is not part of the cosmere. Some think that he will become a Radiant. Some think he may have attracted a spren already. Most speculate that he will be a Radiant of a different order than Kaladin. Brandon has said that he will be the focus of a book and it is thought that the books will each focus on a different Radiant order. We have read the Windrunner book. He is supposed to have a later book, although Brandon has said that characters can predecease their books. There are other outcomes than Szeth dying or Dalinar dying. Szeth could fail to assassinate, then escape. He could be captured. He could decide that fighting the Voidbringers is more important than having his soul sit in stone after he dies (lose faith) and not worry about the stone. I am expecting one spren per Radiant. Why do you think there should be two? Kaladin apparently has the full Radiant powerset with a single spren. Szeth's Truthlessness is apparently a sentence laid down by the Stone Shamans. Brandon has stated that his Windrunner powers do not come from an association with a spren. Some speculate that the sixteen refers to the original 16 Shards of Adonalsium. In an Interlude, Rysn's successfully uses a detection fabrial in Shinovar. There are apparently no spren in Shinovar, but they can be brought inside fabrials, at least.

Yes, good quote. That is not consistent with this map which has small breaks growing larger to the east. The easy explanation is that the map is only what the Alethi know and doesn't even reach the center of the Plains. The implication would then be that the cracks get smaller as one gets further away from the center in all directions. However, I also seem to remember in-book descriptions that have the cracks getting wider to the east. With the highstorms, erosion needs to be considered also.

My thesis is that the impacts were simultaneous and caused waves (earthquakes). The waves would not cause fissures by themselves, but where multiple waves interfere constructively, fissures could form. The greatest constructive interference would be at the center of the arc formed by the craters. The pressure waves would keep going in the same direction. The waves going from the craters away from the center would not interfere as much and might not cause fissures. This would explain the lack of fissures on the backside. Two problems I see with this scenario: I am postulating a set of seismic pressure waves that causes fissures at the points of greatest constructive interference. The fissures form coincidentally with the wave and grow bigger. Wouldn't there be a damping effect as the waves proceed? The surface being rock would lower the damping, but the elasticity of the material should absorb some of the energy. (Warning: I am not a geologist and am certainly using incorrect terminology) These earthquakes and the corresponding shattering wave would be tremendous. Could any structure, even if built to survive a Highstorm survive? Words of Radiance spoiler:

Speculating wildly, an arc of impacts would have created intense interference patterns at the focus of the arc. The width of the fissures in the plains also increases as you move away from the craters. Wouldn't a central impact have created more symmetrical effects?

nor that they are on the edge of the Shattered plains. Could they be the impacts that shattered the plains? Edit: spell "shattered" with an "h"

I believe the source of Amaram's information is Taravangian. The support I could find for this conclusion follows. In the prologue Gavilar's first suspect about the source of his assassination is Thaidakar, followed by Restares and then Sadeas. In Chapter 51, Amaram is apparently working with Stormwardens and Restares and against Thaidakar and the Ghostbloods: This gives us two apparent factions: Thaidakar and the Ghostbloods, who include the passionate ardent assassin Kabsal and Shallan's father. Restares, Amaram and some stormwardens Now consider the Taravangian interlude: Taravangian seems to rely/trust a group of stormwardens to serve him. The simplest solution is that Restares is a code name for Taravangian or an associate and that he has organized some stormwardens. If different groups of stormwardens are serving different factions and Taravangian is not associated with Restares, then I imagine Restares is the likely source of information about voidbringers.

Oathgates and near instantaneous travel are mentioned in several places. The Radiants apparently left only certain things where the non-Radiants could get them. They seem to have chosen to leave blades, plate and Soulcasters behind. They could have stashed all manner of fabrials where no-one can get to, like maybe Urithiru.

@GunSlinger Thanks for the appreciation and being open to my suggestion about the OP.

Just spitballing here. Consider the goblet that Shallan Soulcasts as having a soul that indicates what kind of thing it is. The "soul" of the goblet is cast into something else. In the general (cosmere?) section there are threads which make my brain hurt, but that's my quick and dirty understanding.

This is all I got, (wo)man (not to be presumptuous). Doc, please don't shoot me. I did not know that this is where you thought Urithiru is. Tangentially, we should find out which mystery has the most disparate theories attached to it. Urithiru's location might well win. Well, you could edit the opening post to include the conclusion. Out of consideration for others, so they don't have to wade through our brilliant repartee to just have a Rosanna Rosannadanna moment. This again, is all I was saying. I apologize for having contributed to your confusion. Unlike the intrepid Meg, my native language is english (murrikan dialect), so I have no excuse for the confusion I cause. Cool. I think my theory about the location of Urithiru might be the most boring. I don't know if you caught that, assuming a somewhat similar to earth orbit, the northernmost part of the supercontinent seems to be warm. That suggests to me that there is a northern hemisphere for Brandon to put stuff. I hope we find out where Urithiru is in WoR, and I think we will.

Rock will constantly describe all of the people as airsick lowlanders, refuse to fight and not teach anybody else to use a bow, while situations constantly arise where a bowman is needed. Kaladin will make no effort to communicate with his parents. Nor will he tell Dalinar about his Radiant abilities or his history with Amaram, even though it affects his job as head of security. Jasnah and Navani will not tell people what they need to know, while competing/fighting with each other.

Confusion! Confusion everywhere! Your OP seems to assume that Derethil is headed toward the Origin (but never says so) and asks why he went West. I try to help by providing an explanation before actually reading the text. You dispute it. Finally I read the text and find that he wasn't headed toward the Origin at all, answering your question. I am glad that you are posting, helping give life to our little obsession. But what do you want from me? You ask for an explanation. I give you an explanation, then find that the premise of your post is incorrect. You could be grateful, or at least embarrassed that you didn't reread the section yourself to make a better OP. You talk about the storms stopping at Urithiru, but not where you think Urithiru is. I have theories about Urithiru, but really, it's a big mystery. Some people think it's in Shadesmar! I believe Urithiru is in mountains somewhere near the middle of the continent, maybe at the Veden Silent Mount or near where the Nightwatcher is. Given what I know, the only help I can give you is to tell you that the Highstorms apparently reach the western edge of the continent except where Shinovar is protected from them by mountains. If you had thought Urithiru was on the continent, it would be something to work around. I'm doing my best to help, but you could help me help you. There are apparent inconsistencies in the information we have. The storms are mild near the Purelake, blocked by the mountains around Shinovar, and the Reshi sea seems to be navigable. The storms can't really go East to West without hitting one of those except for a little section near Steen. But apparently Derethil went West in a dangerous Highstorm. Did Kaladin end his dream and Derethil sail from near Steen? Do the storms pick up speed over the western continent or temporarily lose it near the Purelake? If Derethil left from near Steen, why did he think the Voidbringers spawned in that direction? Aimia is in that direction. Is that why Aimia got scoured? How real is Kaladin's dream or Hoid's story?

Kaladin's dream has him riding the storm to the other end of the continent. From Chapter 46: Since Derethil went West, he presumably started to the West of the continent, further suggesting that the Highstorms make it to the western coast where they are not blocked by the mountains around Shinovar. This limits the locations of Urithiru, per your theory. Derethil's goals (as told by Hoid) seemed to be two-fold: sail the Highstorm and find the spawning-place of the VoidBringers. He left: Apparently his goal was not the Origin. I believe the Highstorms are most violent on the East and weaken as they cross the continent. Based on your initial post, I assumed that Derethil's goal was the Origin, so I constructed a logical theory to explain their traveling west. Given that they were not actually trying to get to the Origin, it is not necessary for the Rosharians to know whether the world is round or not. I feel certain the Radiants knew and I don't think they would have hidden it, but I can't prove it right now. The Stormwardens have probably figured it out also, if it wasn't otherwise known, with their ability to predict the storms. But, either way, it is irrelevant.

The Highstorm(s?) always come from the East. Presumably the winds are prevailing from the East. If they understand that the world is round, they would know they can get anywhere sailing West. Surviving a Highstorm is not the same as sailing upwind through it and prevailing winds. Yes, I know you can tack, but this lubber thinks running before the wind will get you there much faster. Edit: fix typo

@Kurkistan Thanks for the gracious comment. Your quote was on-point, but being told I was wrong so bluntly for a position that I hadn't really taken was not fun.

So, you're saying there's a chance. "huge conspiracy of money-fakery" seems like an exaggeration of my argument. They are apparently in debt beyond any possibility of paying it off normally. We know this. Actually, it may not be true at all. Could they just auction off the Shardblade? Why is Shallan keeping it? I suppose they would have to explain how they got it. I think I said that I generally agreed with Jim Mar10 who said "There really was no cost in spheres for him to create the marble depostis since he was using a souldcasting fabrial to make them. " I did not support Rutsahl's argument that the lost spheres' cost would equal the possible profit. Huh? So, you're saying there's a chance. Really, I don't know. Maybe the worldbuilding doesn't even extend that far and even Brandon doesn't know. Maybe he was planning on creating the marble deposits. Maybe spending that time wouldn't have been worthwhile with the resources available to him. I do think that the Highprince probably derives some income from his vassals in a feudal system but can't prove it.

Apparently No. Not what I meant to say, at least. Really I was just speculating about why their father hid what he was doing and why they can't pay off the loans. It seems to me that a surface deposit of marble created by a soulcaster will run out sooner than a deeper natural vein. Thus it would be more valuable to make it seem natural. Thus he can borrow more. It is not a true bait and switch because I think the plan is to become Highprince and make it right somehow rather than leave town. Makes sense, but clearly the fake natural deposits were not enough at the time of his death. I have no idea how he was planning on fixing things once he got to be Highprince. I did not mean to suggest that he would deal with it in any particular way. I do think that there may have been a number of solutions available to him at that point. He could do as you say. Or maybe his income as Highprince would allow him to pay things off. or maybe a combination would work. I have no idea. I don't believe I stated this.

I beg to disagree. I think I'm just a bad writer . I am suggesting that their father may have been involved in a bait and switch operation with the marble deposits to help become Highprince. Obviously, he's dead now, so it is not a thing anymore. I don't think that they intended to increase their debts if they got Jasnah's Soulcaster, and I'm sorry if the way I wrote suggested that. BTW, what did I write that suggested that Shallan and Nan Balat were planning to do a bait and switch? <Edit>Never mind, I see where the confusion arose. </Edit> Edit: added never mind clause at end.

Amen! The "deposits" are on their property. They are not selling the quarries to anyone. Then borrow based on the expected income from the quarries. Their properties get seized if the loans aren't paid off, but her father was planning to be Highprince and presumably could have then found ways to pay the loans off. They are in debt and their lives and properties are at risk unless they find something.

I think it is partly a bait-and-switch scheme. The father creates marble near the surface which, if it were a natural formation, be likely to run much deeper. Borrow money based on the expected income from this imagined deeper vein of marble. It is forbidden for anybody but an ardent to use the holy relics. Maybe the prohibition is not civil, but religious, so Jasnah can flout it. The creation of fake natural marble deposits is just fraud, I think. The fabrials left over from the Radiant Era (Radiantblades, Shardplate and Soulcasters) are made using different principles than the modern fabrials. I'll edit in a quote from Navani if I find it. In chapter 60 Navani explains that modern artifabrians don't understand Shardblades and plate. She doesn't talk about Soulcasters. As for how the ancient fabrials work, one possibility comes from Brandon quotes about Shardplate. The metal of the plate is invested. Maybe the metal parts of the Soulcasters are invested and just draw stormlight from the gems. This would help explain why being cut with a Shardblade was fatal to the Davar Soulcaster. With regard to the Mar10 post above: Welcome! I generally agree, but Shallan's father apparently owned three ardents of his own. Edit: added discussion of Navani quote paragraph

Mistborn spoiler: The history, as I understand it, has Honor and Cultivation chilling here, then Odium hangs out for a while, then he goes somewhere else and mashes up some Shards. Then Odium is back and all, like, committed. So what happened? My guess is that Odium put some of his magic in the creatures of Roshar after he came back and leaving would be kind of tearing himself apart. So maybe if he wipes the place clean, he can get that part back and be on his way. A side benefit might be that without people, it might be harder for Honor to get put back together. But that is just my theory about the Final Desolation, I have no evidence to support it. As for the two series, I believe it's from Brandon. There are some quotes below from the interview database. Here's one quote: Interview: May 18th, 2009 AMC Filmcritic.com - Novelist Brandon Sanderson Discusses the End of the Wheel of Time (Verbatim)Clayton Neuman What do you have planned after you finish Wheel of Time? Brandon SandersonMy next series will be The Way of Kings, which is the start of a big epic for me. I've plotted it as ten books. Fantasy writers, we get into this business because we love the big epics. We grow up reading Brooks and Jordan, and we get to the point where we say, "I want to do this myself." Another: Interview: Jul, 2009BarnesandNoble.com Book Club Q&A with Brandon Sanderson morph147Next, I've been hearing about The Way of Kings series you are starting. Are you planning to have that as a single book or going to try and make it a trilogy like Mistborn or a large ten or more book series? Brandon SandersonIt's going to be a big series. No promises on length right now, but I feel that it is going to be long. I have 10 books plotted right now, though some of those might get combined—essentially, there are 10 plot arcs I want to cover. But expect it to be big. The first book is done, and came in at 380,000 words before editing. and these two refer to two 5 book series: Interview: Nov 12th, 2011 Alloy of Law Signing Report - zx15 (Paraphrased) zxg15Asked him for more info on what he meant when he said that Stormlight will be organized as two 5-book series within the total 10 books. Brandon SandersonUnderstandably he didn't want to give much away, he wouldn't say if there would be a time skip or not. He did tell me that there would be a large change in tone between books 1-5 and 6-10. Also, he said that since book 2 is now going to be Shallan's, he wants Dalinar's book to be number 5. He then talked about how the 5 characters that were introduced in depth in Way of Kings would be the the 5 flashback characters for the first 5 books and the others would be more focused on in the final 5 books. Interview: Nov 10th, 2011 Alloy of Law Signing Report - Green Hoodie Mistborn (Verbatim) QuestionWhat’s the status of the second book of the Stormlight Archive? Brandon SandersonI will be going right into that as soon as I finish A Memory of Light. I have it outlined, I have decided whose book it will be, each of the Stormlight books will have a focal character who gets flashbacks. It’s going to be Shallan’s book. So the first major cycle of the Stormlight Archive is looking like it’s going to be Kaladin, Shallan, Szeth, Navani, and Dalinar as the five book arc. And if you haven’t heard, I’m doing it in two 5-book arcs, so the first 5 books should wrap a lot of things up and whatnot. And I might even stop then and do like an Elantris sequel and things like that, and then start the second 5-book arc. So I will do that immediately, I’m actually planning to do that and have it out, it probably won’t be next year, it’ll probably be the following spring, but it’s a little over a year away. I’ve got it all outlined, so it should be...I’ve done a lot of work on it, I just haven’t written it.

Supposedly there are two 5 book series. I guess that the first five book series will be surviving the desolation, fighting Odium to a standstill. The second could then be reaching a more satisfactory solution. Brandon is anything but predictable, so he could have Odium win in the first series and have a desperate struggle in a world dominated completely by Odium. I prefer the first solution, as the world is already pretty bleak and he sort of did the second already in another series. With Honor splintered, the odds are already against Team Radiant. I remember there being a quote to the effect of Odium having invested too heavily in Roshar to leave. I assume that investment is in living creatures. Presumably that is in providing corrupting influences in people, perhaps including the Thrill. If the Final Desolation destroys all life on Roshar, his investment may return to him and he can travel round and destroy more Shards.