hoser

In another context, spirit may have found a useful quote. consider the following: Whatever triggered Szeth's actions and whatever he did to become truthless may indeed be relevant to the death rattles starting. It was at least close to synchronous.

Well, I promised myself I would just walk away from this one. But I must be really stupid, because I've gotten really confused, so I will wade in again. What does "external" mean? A similar example is the Chasmfiend. I now believe that Dalinar either super-strengthed himself or surface-tensed his armor or himself. For purposes of discussion let's pretend it is being done via strength. I read the above to say that Dalinar would not have actually become stronger, but the weight (not mass) of the Chasmfiend was reduced. I don't get it. A windrunner could effectively reduce the weight of something by changing the direction of some portion of the object's gravitational attraction (assuming the Chasmfiend is not invested, which may not be true, as it has spren that allow it to get huge), but that is not what happened. The claw came down with incredible momentum (mass x velocity) and Dalinar withstood it. Furthermore, when Adolin took out another leg or two, the thing collapsed. So, I see three problem's with the "external" theory as applied to the situation. The chasmfiend was an invested object, so it would resist an external magic applied directly to itself. Dalinar withstood the momentum, not just the weight, of the claw. If the weight of the chasmfiend was reduced, then why did it collapse? If it could stand with it's full weight on X legs, then it should, with significantly reduced weight, be able to stand on X-1 legs (assuming reasonable X). So, I believe the magic can affect the properties of the mage, "internal" by the definition above. WoR spoiler Consider Szeth. He changes the direction and magnitude of his own gravitational attraction to fly around, walk on walls, etc. The walls he walks on are not attracting other people in those instances. "Internal" magic by the definition above. By Shardlet's definition of external neither the windrunner nor the spoiler-person can affect themselves, so, as I understand it, you are 100% not with Shardlet. So it seems that Moogle is using a different definition of external than Shardlet. What is excluded from Moogle's definition of "external"? I don't think anyone is arguing that surges can't be used externally.

Maybe if you soulcast without knowing what you're creating, it defaults to the ten essences or even the essence most related to your order (hint: Shallan goblet->blood). This is not to say that you couldn't do something more sophisticated if you knew what you were doing, but mistakes or ambiguity might drag your creation toward the default.

Hi! I really like the thought and quotes you are offering. I do have one little nitpick that I hope you will forgive me for. Some people in this forum may not have read Mistborn yet. I want to protect their potential enjoyment. The custom here, as I understand it, is to put spoiler tags around references to "outside" works. There is an icon in the editor just to the left of the font box that will allow you to do this easily if you edit your post.

Welcome! Please accept an introductory upvote! I only have speculation on-topic though. The Heralds may have been chosen on the Tranquilline Halls, which may have been another planet in the same solar system. Whether or not this is so, they may well all be able to travel using Shadesmar. Other powers ... Jezrien is also called the stormfather, so maybe he can do something special relating to the storms. If he can do something special, then hopefully the others each have a special ability too. If Darkness is Nalan, we know that he can infuse from the Lift interlude. There must be more, IMO, if ten Heralds could help fight off desolations before the Radiants formed.

The source of the information could well be voidish, but that doesn't mean it is intended to hurt Dalinar. I imagine that Odium hates his minions and they hate him right back. So, if he's not watching carefully enough, they could do something to try to help Dalinar. Of course, Odium could be behind it too, which might not be good.

I don't think ivory is a cryptic either. He's just a black spren called "Ivory" that thinks certain other spren are liespren . It's not surprising that a class of spren that value wisdom might have judgements of spren that look for creativity. I think the Cryptics probably consider all spren that bond traitors to sprendom.

I've always assumed that the visions were being projected in an isolated corner of the spiritual realm, where Honor could create whatever he wanted Dalinar to see. It fits with the highstorms including a rift to the spiritual realm to let the investiture into the physical realm. Jasnah is operating from information provided by the dapper oilspren, who the Cryptics consider a traitor and who may have his own resentments.

This is completely wonderful speculation. I would like to add another dimension. I propose that the way the bond is formed with the cryptic is interesting. It is partly a test, as I see it. Telling an important personal truth is a test. Being thrown into Shadesmar without information and having to survive is a test, seemingly harder for Jasnah than Shallan the first time. What attracts the spren is not necessarily the same. Yes, they may need to be broken in some way, as the blurb suggests. I think they also need to excel at the primary attribute of the order. Kaladin was an exceptional leader who protected his men and random undersized, underaged boys. Jasnah seems quite wise and has been working on careful. Shallan is an amazingly accomplished creative artist who had some work to do on the honesty front. Joining people of high status doesn't seem like it could hurt either.

Welcome! Good catch! Please have an upvote for delurking! Lift interlude

9 highprinces, 30 sets of Shards. Losing one set is significant. Presumably you start with the princes you have no chance of winning to your side, so your potential allies wonder if they'll be next. If you get over 5, the diplomatic effort may be a failure. Which highprince is least likely to be won over? Hint: 6 letters, starts and ends w/"S". What cause would justify an honor duel w/Shards as stakes? Would accusing someone of stealing their Shards by murdering and enslaving the rightful owners be good enough? Wild speculation, easily falsified. I'm sure Brandon has come up w/better. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Shards ended up w/the Kholin camp or redistributed to their allied factions.

I now (this has changed w/Jasnah's reveal) think that honorspren and Cryptics are both noble classes of Nahel bond spren. They compete and dominate in different spren cities. Apparently several classes of spren that are more H than C think of themselves as honorspren (hence Brandon's comment), although maybe some of the classes that think of themselves as honorspren don't agree that the others are honorspren. Cryptics are hidden, encrypted, complex, as are the powers they provide and the name fits for me. Seemingly no other order of spren claims it. The honorspren are more straightforward, providing more obvious powers and so is the name. We will get more about how these spren orders compete and distinguish themselves. I don't think we know enough to understand the logic of how they name themselves. Cryptics may well be more of Cultivation than Honor. Wyndle's comment about Cryptics and honorspren coming to see his gardens singles those classes out because they are the highest status classes and their attendance conveys the most distinction on his gardens. All wild speculation, much of it certainly incorrect.

Works for me if it works for you . I think of the chart as describing an honor-cultivation magic system, so even if Adonalsium spren bond humans, I could see them not being part of the chart and providing different powers. Likewise, I don't see that voidspren would be on the Radiant surgebinding chart. I see the left side of the chart being cognitive-related and the right side being spirit-related I see the top of the chart being more honory and the bottom being more cultivationy. I could try to set it up as quadrants (Honor-spirit, Cultivation-spirit, Cultivation-cognitive, Honor-cognitive clockwise from the top), but, the only thing I'm sure of at this point is that I'm wrong.

I agree that Jasnah is likely partially wrong. I don't know of anything definitively linking cryptics w/Adonalsium. The following quote suggests otherwise. We definitely ran into cryptics in tWoK. I, personally put Cryptics w/Cultivation and Cognitive.

Just a nitpick here IIRC, Brandon has said that Honor was alive when the Heralds (9 out of 10, anyway) packed it in. There has been a lively and unresolved debate about whether he was around until the Recreance, but no WoB that I am aware of. If he was not foreseeing the Recreance vision, he must have been alive for it. OTOH, one of the chapter heading quotes seems to be a Radiant wondering what happened to the "Shard of my soul."

I feel confused. I don't see how we could have read the same thing. Walking away slowly... I really appreciate you and all you've done here. I don't want to give offense.

Um, politely, but, no. WOR spoiler

Soldiers being traded has nothing to do with whether there are other Truthless. In addition, I am sure there is a relevent quote. from the Rysn interlude in tWoK:.

Interesting theory! The Almighty in the Starfall vision says that "To speak of what might be is forbidden." He also speaks of the Everstorm coming and the future being a shattering window (something like that). There must be something there. Vorinism has it twisted somehow, but I am leary of the knights having a prophetic ability. In the Starfall vision, the knights seem to be deducing the Desolation based on data, rather than using prophecy. The Parshendi fit pretty well, as Navani clearly connects them retrospectively, and they may not have the same restrictions on prophecy. The crude/brilliantly ambiguous writing is a puzzler. The rock pried out of the windowsill is strange too. If you are planning to write something, don't you bring something to write with? Does this mean the being arrived incorporeally and couldn't carry anything? Something possessing Dalinar to give the warning kind of fits.

The problem I have with this theory is the epigraphs. In the chapter heading quotes, Navani seems to be linking the writing with the Parshendi. She is doing it retrospectively, so she would know.

Done

The swords were unique and fantastic art pieces. I call my Ford Escort Emma. I would totally name a Shardblade linked to my soul. I envy Bloodfalcon his "car".

Since I assume that Szeth's abilities are coming from the sword, I don't think people can do it without a special shardblade. I have no evidence, though. If people can infuse without fabrial, spren bond, Radiant ability or magic sword, why wouldn't everybody do it? If it was just a special technique, then eventually the secret would leak out and every soldier would learn it. As for Bloodfalcon's question: there's also this from the Prologue to WoR: I think people are discounting what the witnesses are saying about the glowing (the witnesses may also be reluctant to report the glowing), because they don't understand it, hence the Assassin in White.

Maybe it has already been done, but if not, I want to write up a wild speculation about this. Somebody asked if the Parshendi had gemhearts and got RAFOed, IIRC. I think they have tiny gemhearts that are always linked to the spiritual realm by their spren. The different songs are ideal forms that are present in the spiritual realm that they essentially tune to. The spiritual realm is everywhere, so distance doesn't matter.

There are complicated solutions, but the presence of unbonded Nahel spren with defined forms gives me the easiest answer. The case for different types of bonding spren: Nohadon says that honorspren are pickier than other types of bonding spren. If they are all the same base type, how would that make sense? Shallan sees multiple Cryptics. If she can only bond one, why do the others have form? Shallan sees her cryptic in the physical realm. She clearly is only bonded to one. There are cities full of unbonded spren with defined forms. In fact, they consider bonding a betrayal. In the wake of Jasnah's revelations about spren civilization, the solution to this question seems clear. If spren form is determined by the bond, then unbonded spren should not have form. The other problem I see with the human determining spren form theory is how the spren could choose if they are not looking for particular attributes.