hoser

I like the thoughts about Shinovar as haven, bastion and granary. I struggle with the idea of Urithiru in Shinovar for the following reasons: Urithiru was the Radiant base and meetingplace of kings. I don't think kings want to meet in another king's kingdom. Shinovar was one of the Silver Kingdoms. I imagine a more central location on the continent. Radiants seem like they should be based in a place that gets stormlight. But I know nothing. It will be fun to find out.

A significant number of Amaram's retinue were present when Amaram admitted to Kaladin that he stole the Shards. There was the stormwarden and Restares that he discussed it with. There could easily be whispered rumors that Amaram was not entitled to the Shards to build on.

Syl had a name, but was surprised to remember it. Pattern will probably remember his name presently.

I like this! It makes sense as you present it. One caveat is that we know about Shallan in the near-present. It is not clear to me that Syl is able to communicate w/spren in the cognitive. Her information could be over a year old. We don't know what honorspren are doing in the present. Honorspren could be coming across w/honorspren blessing currently. It seems to me that the disagreement between honorspren and Cryptics is also ancient and fundamentally based on their natures. Given that they dominate in different cities and they seem so different, I imagine that their disagreement is more than a few years old. So, even if they disagreed about spren crossing over recently, they've disagreed about many things before this. It will be very interesting to see Syl and Pattern interact.

The Ideals of the Knights Radiants (written up in the in-book Way of Kings): one shared ideal and four unique ideals for each order unlock enhanced capabilities and even trigger access to stormlight (or at least the second ideal does for Kaladin). I have been assuming that the surges were a shared Honor-Cultivation system with the Oaths as an Honor system built on top of them. Could the spren have created the oaths? (tWoK chapter 67) Jasnah says (chapter 6) that the spren are returning the oaths. Does that strengthen the thought that they empowered them in the first place? The spren created the Radiants in imitation of what was done with the Heralds. It was a surprise to Honor. (WoR chapter 3) Nohadon complains that some of the Nahel-Bond spren are not discriminating enough. (tWoK chapter 60) So the spren created Surgebinding and it was kinda good, but it had a bug in that the empowered people wouldn't necessarily work together. Could the spren be the ones who changed their own system? The spren could have created the Ideals to restrain the behavior of the surgebinders. A Surgebinder either adopts the progressive ideals or doesn't become a strong surgebinder. The knights thought they had to disband (or whatever they did) because continuing as knights would lead to Something Bad. In doing so, they violated their Oaths to their bonded spren, not least of which is the first: journey before destination. Spren may have died or become mindless as a result. Syl comments on gravity working consistently as a working agreement (between the spren?) to keep people's minds from being blown (this is a whole topic of it's own) (Chapter 9 WoR). The oaths could be a similar agreement between the spren (and maybe Nohadon) to limit the strength of the Surgebinders who have not adopted all the ideals. Of course, Honor and the spren could have worked together on this also. What do people think?

I assume one can't soulcast spren. Syl -> real woman Syl would definitely be interesting.

The interesting thing for me about this episode is that it is unnecessary. The guy got in with that wall in place. Why wouldn't he just leave the way he came in? Are they showing off for Szeth?

The leaves would be like poison ivy with spikes. The irritating fluid would spray and the spikes would launch at you whenever you came near.

{sarcasm} No, Alaxel is right. That's also why people of color are not integrated into the armed services. As is well established, people of color pissing in the same trenches would be offensive. Likewise, people of nonstandard gender attractions are not allowed to serve, because we as a society will never be able to figure out how to manage the complicated situations that would ensue from people serving with other people they find attractive. Oh wait, what year is this? Never mind. {/sarcasm} Seriously though, I have never served{sarcasm} and so my opinion and knowledge of history are meaningless.{/sarcasm}.

There are many possibilities: If blades are stored in the spiritual realm, Taln comes from there, and stormlight chills, that makes a pattern. Why is his beard filled with bits of wood and leaves? The blades don't come back with leaves on them. I doubt the spiritual realm has leaves and splinters. If Heralds travel back to be tortured (as Kalak thinks), they may have the ability to travel realmatically. We don't know if Taln knows that the Radiants packed it in. If he doesn't know the Radiants packed it in, it would be logical to go to Kholinar, which has apparently been the Alethi capital since Nohadon's time, at least. The Knights all lived in Alethela. Urithiru might have been more logical, but for all we know, Taln already went there. What about the rag he's wearing? Is it the one that was stolen from Axies the spren collector?

I know nothing, but I am in the camp of curse/boon only affects supplicant, so I can't see it affecting Renarin directly. He does ask about Renarin thinks, but leaving out Adolin could be because Adolin had left to collect highstorm damage reports. OTOH, he also doesn't worry about what Navani thinks, so it might be significant.

There are many definitions of honor. While we don't know what Szeth did to become Truthless, I suspect it was quite honorable. Of necessity, I will ignore it in this discussion. Syl defines her role as an honorspren as including "nobility". I think she is referencing noble behavior rather than heredity. Wikipedia mentions "moral code of the society". By these definitions, swearing allegiance to an evil overlord, maintaining that allegiance and doing what knows is wrong are all dishonorable. Szeth's motivation being craven and selfish (to avoid annihilation and spend the afterlife in the rocks (paraphrased)) does not seem honorable either. Even by this reductionist, totally amoral definition of honor, Szeth is not honorable, as he believes that killing, walking on stone, using stormlight, etc are wrong and he is sinning, even as he does them. It is inherent in his punishment that he is honorless. He chooses, over and over, to do wrong, but that would be true no matter what he did. Denying his punishment and not walking on stone, using stormlight, killing, etc would also be wrong by Shin society. Truthless really translates to honorless. Per the code of Shin society, Szeth cannot be honorable. Failing that, we can look at whether he reaches for a more global code of right behavior. We see that he chooses to abide by his punishment and do wrong for an utterly selfish reason: to avoid annihilation.

Even though Darkness was surprised when Lift invested, he detected her investing before she took action. I think he can detect investing and surgebinding. The surgebinding detection would be similar to the way Kaladin detects Szeth's surgebinding in the highstorm stormriding dream. The interesting thing about Darkness to me is how he knows that Szeth's surgebinding is not via the Nahel bond (assumption made here) and so he lets him go. Why not go after Jasnah? Can't find an excuse to kill her? Doesn't want to get the attention? Fooled by the story about a Soulcaster? She teleports away from him whenever he attacks? Jasnah has learned to hide the signs of magic use from Ivory?

Much as I really want to see it, I thought polically there were two problems. Amaram has a reputation as being a decent brightlord, rather than pondscum like Sadeas. Amaram is a hero as a nonShardbearer that defeated a Shardbearer. This is an ideal that many share. We know better, but unless word gets out about what he did, punishing him would be unpopular.

Kumbaya! Perhaps an overstatement? Inaccurate WRT Augustine, definitely an overstatement on my part. If all the people involved have to be perfect or even innocent, can a government ever take action? I hope we can agree that the war is somewhat, but not totally justified and that asking what the Radiants would do is an somewhat different question. It is tribute to Brandon that he can create an ambiguous enough situation to be interesting. May your firstevery reading of WoR be rich and enjoyable!

One point is that asking "What would the Radiants do?" in the middle of the situation is nowhere near the same as saying the war is unjustified. They are two entirely different perspectives. As for the war being justified, I analyze it differently. Actually, I was wrong. I looked into it early in the debate and my memory did what it does, or doesn't do, in this case. Augustine came up with the just war concept, but Aquinas first defined it. Per Wikipedia: Thomas Aquinas 1. The Alethi King - check 2. punishment for an evil perpetrated by a government, army, or even citizen population - regicide - check 3. this one is iffier - Elhokar and Dalinar would certainly accept a surrender and might be willing to negotiate if the Parshendi would be open to it, but a negotiated settlement seems impossible with the Parshendi refusing to communicate. Certainly Sadeas and some other highprinces lack right intention. I imagine many soldiers also. I'm not sure how reasonable this one is. What you quote resemples the Catholic Catechism per Wikipedia 1. lasting, grave and certain damage - Gavilar still dead - check 2. All other means impractical or ineffective - scholars and envoys sent, communication refused, Parshendi went to a secure bastion - check 3. Prospects of success - the Parshendi and Alethi both think so and you agree - check 4. Use of arms creates greater evil - Bridgemen probably don't like it, highprinces find it worthwhile, how evil are the Parshendi? Given how forthcoming the Parshendi are, the Alethi could call this one any number of ways. They have to make a judgement once Gavilar is killed, but they don't have the information they need. - this one is debatable

These last two sentences are nowhere near equivalent. Using some just war theories including Saint Augustine's, the war is totally justified. If the Radiants were around? The Parshendi probably wouldn't have started the war like they did. It gets tricky to change the conditions in mid-scenario and judge only one side on that basis.

There is quite a bit of interesting speculation about Urithiru if you follow the link in my sig. IMO, it is worth it for Windrunner's great OP. I like the connection to the Origins of the Makabaki story. I hadn't seen that before. Your location has the advantage of not really being in any country. If kings are to meet in a city, they might not want it to be under another king's control. What Asha'man said!

I don't see the Radiants giving up these deadly weapons without a purpose. The Knights maintained order and discipline until the end. If they were corrupt, they would have kept the Shards. Having a snit or protesting just doesn't fit for me. I think they left the Shards despite knowing they would be abused. They thought that people having the Shards would be a net benefit. I think they also made arrangements to have the Way of Kings and the Dawnchant preserved at Vanrial. I think they had a plan and leaving the Shards was part of it. What? Shardspear? On topic, you say? I suppose. I could see it either way. I think he'll turn out to be an amazing fighter with any weapon. If he can choose a weapon, he'll make sure it will do the job required.

Thanks. I notice that you're not denying that a male wrote it. But it is good to know not to count that as evidence. Catching all the jumped conclusions around here seems like a Sisyphean task, so I appreciate the correction.

"If you suggest this thing again, you will feel a kick from my big Unkalaki feet on your foolish lowlander chull!"

I think this is an excellent theory. It is also presented beautifully. Without challenging the base of the theory, I would like to suggest that part of the supporting evidence is more ambiguous than presented. Specifically, it is unclear whether Darkness is referring to Jezrien or the new Azish ruler when he says "drooling." Specifically, the nitpick I have is with the following: The actual quote follows: The new Prime is being announced. It is logical to wish that he lead in wisdom. He is also a young incompetent thief taking a job many others don't want. Darkness echoes the lead vizier in the formulaic reference to Jezrien, but the "drooling" could apply to the new prime, Jezrien or both. It looks to me like 'Darkness (...) references Jezrien as "drooling."' overstates the certainty of the interpretation. I think 'Darkness may reference Jezrien as "drooling."' or something similar would be more accurate.

Implies a male wrote the glyphs in Dalinar's room?

So Sadeas could get a spren? Ouch! To attract a mindless bonding spren, he would have to excel in a relevant attribute, I think. Otherwise, the spren on the cognitive realm might not want to be on both sides of the conflict.

I see two different definitions of external here. I don't see how Shardlet's fits the situation. I have no problem with Moogle's. Here the surgebinder can't be affected, only his environment. Here the surgebinder can be affected. By this definition of external, I have no problem.