hoser

I see a lot of good thought here. Given that we really only have information about 3 heralds, it is necessarily projected. Taln seems pretty broken too, so it might make sense to include him. I do have a few thoughts about the heralds mentioned below. The assessment of Jezrien seems questionable to me. Kalak's assessment could be projection, as it pretty well describes Kalak also, but it might be accurate. Kaladin is a depressive personality, per WoB, so I don't see his inner wretch necessarily applying to Jezrien or other Windrunners. It pretty much runs counter to Kalak's description of him: Nalan's comment about drooling definitely seems applicable to the new Azish prime. Whether it could also be applied to Jezrien is unclear to me. It bothers me to see it asserted as fact. I believe that Brandon has said that the Heralds are definitely affected by the torture and then guilt over abandoning their duties with a sacrificial victim (Taln) and a dishonest accounting of the result (we won). Nalan seems to me that he may have been significantly corrupted and no description leaves out the crescent shaped scar. I personally think the scar is a remainder of some Odious transformation beyond the torture and aftermath of desertion. Nalan does give a description of the Edgedancers that may well have described Vev before being broken. He talks of them being distracted by minor irrelevent causes. It seems her brokenness could accentuate that tendency, where she could be loving and healing within such a minor sphere of influence that she doesn't really help.

Elhokar may not be a terrible king, but he is not a good king either. He just doesn't really lead. It creates a vacuum, which Dalinar, Sadeas and Roshone have all filled at various points. As Gloom said above, he is not trying to serve, which is needed. His goals are (quotes to be added later): not let the kingdom fall apart (preserve his father's legacy), not be assassinated and be a king to be remembered. None of those help him do anything. The first two goals are negative and the other is childish and vague. Dalinar has pieces of vision and is iterating toward where he needs to go. Elhokar, floating around like a jellyfish, can only follow or react. It is telling that, with Dalinar gone and an opportunity to figure out what to do, like maybe by having the in-world WoK read to him, he drinks himself senseless. He did ask Kaladin for help, but he was even then without a center. If Kaladin had told him what to do, it would have been little different from following what Roshone told him to do. As for the leadership of the Radiants, I think all the orders will lead in their own ways. As in the Tower battle, Kaladin (or Jezrien if he can be salvaged, or whoever is the head of the Windrunners) will perform many of the apparent leadership duties. Dalinar will work to hold the orders together behind the scenes with a different, more supportive kind of leadership. The knights will be a confederation, more than a hierarchy, with orders working together, rather than being commanded by one order or person. A leader can't be too far ahead of those he leads. S/He needs his actions to be one step better than the people s/he leads. Even if the leader can see three steps ahead, s/he can't act that way. Elhokar, not Roshone, put Moash's grandparents in prison and let them rot there when they challenged his decision. The feudal system allowed Roshone to conscript Tien into the army. Lirin and Hesina could have worked to maintain more popular support in Hearthstone, but allowed themselves to be isolated. Elhokar should have been punished for what he did, but how do you punish a king without undermining him? If pre-Radiant Dalinar had tried to keep Elhokar as king, hold Alethkar together and abolish gender/lighteye/darkeye/nahn/dahn distinctions (running against the church teachings), I doubt it would have worked. Dalinar may not have been perfect, but there may not have been perfect solutions available to him. Even Kaladin, with a much simpler set of issues, worked himself into a snarl that took a deus ex machina to get out of. TL:DR; It is a very rich story in that the issues are not clear-cut.

I agree that the listener gods are the Unmade. I think they were once living creatures who gave up their bodies to become spirits of a sort, hence the name Unmade. They would be the ten counterparts of the Heralds, with unique powers for each one. I know nothing, but I don't see them as spren or likely to be captured in a gem. Eshonai describes being controlled by voices in the new rhythms of the form and the verses about it provide strong support for the third paragraph of the OP IMO.

Greater Hexi is really more square. Should be called Greater Quadri.

Lift grew up in Rall Elorim, near the Reshi Sea. She thinks to herself that Darkness followed her from Marabethia, also on the Reshi Sea. She claims never to have been around Reshi people. Seems hard to believe, but not really map-related. Maybe she thinks the food isn't good there. Clearly she hasn't feasted on larkin roe.

The 16 rays coming out of the sun are not equiangular. In particular the angle between due East and East-North-East is significantly larger than the others. I tend to think it is the mapmaking equivalent of a typo, though.

My answer for the first 1. I believe it was a vision sent, not by the stormfather, Tanavast or Adonalsium, but from the real God beyond. Kaladin gets the encouragement he needs from Syl. Dalinar has a deep spiritual focus as a Bondsmith but he needs encouragement to deal w/his broken spren, hence the vision. Consider the following quotes. From the "vision" and after: From Jasnah's conversation w/Wit at the end of WoR: From Dalinar's conversation w/Navani about whether to live together (ch 4):

With WoR, we have more of an idea about the factions on Roshar. I was particularly intrigued by the following snippet from ch 54: I thought it would be interesting to have a compilation of the factions and what we know about each. I have started it and will compile contributions from this thread, if people want to contribute. So the parties that we are aware of: Diagramists Ghostbloods Radiants Shamanate Skybreakers Sons of Honor Wit/Hoid 17th Shard What we know about the parties Diagramists Led by Mr. T Goal: Some humans survive Desolation Method: Destabilize, take over and ? Members: Mrall, Abrotogar (sp), Graves Ghostbloods Led by Master Thaidakar Cosmere aware (local species of human) Members: Iyatil (babsk of Mraize?), Mraize, Jin Aware of Mr. T/Diagramists creating chaos former members: Kabsal, Lin Davar, Heleran Davar? Radiants Members: Dalinar (Bondsmith), Jasnah (Elsecaller) (assumes she will join w/others), Kaladin (Windrunner), Renarin (Truthwatcher), Shallan (Lightweaver) Goal: destroy Odium? Shamanate possess 7 Honorblades Skybreakers Led by Nin/Nalan members: Szeth Nightblood Sons of Honor members: AmaramWit/Hoid Stop Odium Honorblade, presumed allomancer 17th Shard Leader: Dragon Members: Gallodon,

Another possibility is that there is a seal as Diamondmind posits, but it can be affected by a Bondsmith and the Stormfather working together. Logistics will be a problem, of course. I hope that Wit and Jasnah aren't just hiking around the wilderness for a week. Jasnah could elsecall Rlain somewhere in a jiffy, presumably.

Excellent points, Diamondmind. Upvote! 1. It may be inevitable, but there are possibilities other than inevitability. If Eshonai hadn't been trying to be taken by the spren beforehand or even been trying to be taken by another spren, would the spren have been able to force it's way in? Had her previous preparations weakened her ability to resist? If the Parshmen shelter from the everstorm and the carefully transform to other forms during the next highstorm, could they take a safe form? Is the Everstorm weaker because the stormform singers were slaughtered during the summoning? 2. We have no evidence that they can't either. Maybe they are just so passive without spren that they haven't figured it out/been motivated. 3. We know that they didn't. They may have put their survival/freedom first. Some Alethi wanted to just conquer them. They may have figured they should get the treaty first and not wanted to upset the apple cart. During the war, converting them would risk their spying operations being discovered. I really just think they are people, and must have free will somehow. The comet spren that bothers Eshonai after her transformation seems suspicious also. OTOH, I know nothing.

Sure. The name is known. Is it associated with a known person? If so, I am not aware. AFAIK, it could be a code name for the head of the Sons of Honor, that nobody outside the organization knows the real identity of, in which case, it could be Mr. T.

Really? Where is that shown? I totally missed it.

Given that there are ten, I imagine it is the capitals of the Silver kingdoms: Kholinar, Vedenar, Kharbranth, ... Maybe the map of the Silver Kingdoms from tWoK would show them.

I assume that Parshmen will be turned to Voidbringers by the Everstorm (Stormfather says so also). I further assume that Parshendi have a choice (Rlain and escapees). I assume that Parshmen can take on other Parshendi forms: dullform, mateform, warrior, ... Kaladin is going back to Hearthstone. Should Kaladin take Rlain somewhere to start converting Parshmen to Parshendi. Obviously, anybody who doubts that their slaves will become Voidbringers will not want them to become Parshendi. Politics and slave ownership aside, the humans are better off with allied or neutral Parshendi than Voidbringers, so they should be converting all the Parshmen they can to Parshendi. I assume that Parshendi would need to be emancipated, but that is a separate issue. I can't see anybody agreeing to free or change their slaves until they see the danger, but by then it will be too late. Should Kaladin and Rlain just do it to people's slaves because it's the right thing? Does this make sense or have I lost it?

I think the Cryptics have no problem being invisible when they are in the cognitive realm. Maybe Wyndle is referring to spren that have crossed over. Consider that they were hanging around Shallan in Kharbranth and she could only draw them, not even see them in mirrors. If Elhokar sees them in mirrors and no-one else does, then either they want just him to see them or he has a special ability.

I like this! Upvote! I do have some questions. Do we really know that Restares was in Alethkar with Amaram? I think Restares might have been communicating w/Amaram via spanreed. Could Restares be Mr. T? They both seem to use stormwardens. Mr. T doesn't want his real identity known. As pointed out above, Pai's actions coinciding with Szeth's second attempt on Dalinar and Graves attempt on Elhokar stinks to high Braise.

For Kaladin (windrunners), I think we have seen at least two possibilities: stormriding and "unconscious fighting" (terrible term, I know). He rides the storm in a dream in tWoK. I think windrunners may be able to do it for real also. It could involve manipulating pressure and gravity together. When dodging the blows of the two Shardbearers simultaneously in the fight with Adolin and while fighting against Szeth, he moves without thinking and can almost tell what is going to happen. He even thinks that he could close his eyes and do as well. Conceivably he could be reading the movements of his opponents using both pressure and gravity. This combat ability does seem special and maybe unique to Windrunners, but my argument that it uses two surges seems weak even to me, so please be kind with your derision.

{Snarky sarcasm} Mass murder in Kharbranth. Precipitated civil war that wipes out large parts of the Veden fighting forces. Rioting in Kholinar. Plague in the Purelake. The Everstorm creating armies of Voidbringers worldwide. Regicide out west. Crazy herald about to use renegade assassin to wreck the Shamanate. Renegade assassin who knows his identity and that Mr. T lied to him to get him to try to assassinate Dalinar a second time. Yes, his plans are working out quite well indeed. With saviors like Mr. T, who needs Odium? {/Snarky sarcasm} Really, the only things that are going well are his failures. Szeth no longer does his dirty work. The Radiants have started reforming. Dalinar has survived. Moash may infiltrate his organization and expose him. {Snarky sarcasm} But don't worry, the Diagram has contingency plans to fix all that. {/Snarky sarcasm}

I think they were Cryptics based on their appearance. I assume that the Cryptics had not crossed over wanted him to see them. I think they knew the effect they were having on him. While he doesn't seem to be a terrible human being, he does not seem to be exemplary, particularly in the area of creativity. Therefore, I do not think the Cryptics were interested in bonding him. {Wild Speculation} So why would Cryptics hang around him? To witness his actions? To keep other spren away? Why would they show themselves to him? To increase his paranoia, so that he does not act confidently? Because if he acted confidently, he would screw up bigtime? Why leave when Kaladin/Syl show up? Don't want Syl to see them? They think with Kaladin there, he is not as likely to screw up? {/Wild Speculation}

There are quotes, lettered in parentheses, at the end. The Diagram is Mr. T's plan to save humanity. On the way he thinks he has to become king of everything (A, B ) Graves pretends to be a patriot wanting to kill Elhokar so that Dalinar can take over. At the end, he talks about the Diagram. He says that they tried to keep Kaladin away from Dalinar. They know that Szeth is coming back for a second try. Deduction: Graves is an agent of Mr. T who is really acting to have both Dalinar and Elhokar killed so that Alethkar will fall into chaos and Mr. T can take over. (D, E ) Mr. T apparently helped Szeth become a Truthless so that Mr. T would have a weapon of destabilization (C ). The chaos in Jah Keved was created by Szeth's assassinations and Mr. T has already taken over. Azir is destabilized by the assassination of two successive emporers and might be needing leadership except for the intervention of a budding Radiant. Earlier, a Selay Gerontarch was slain by Szeth. There is an ardent who denounces the queen of Alethkar. After her execution, riots erupt. There is some sort of plague in the Purelake. It sounds suspiciously like "medical" intervention is needed. Deduction: Mr. T is making his move, with all these crises, and probably others, being supported by his agents. Nin is aiming Szeth to take out the Shamanate. More chaos. Questions: Is Nin using Mr. T in his designs or is Mr. T using Nin, both or neither? Will Moash learn about the Diagram and Mr. T? Will he be redeemed and let Kaladin know that Mr. T is a huge part of the problem? When will Szeth turn his attention to Mr. T? Now that the desolation is here, will Nin cease his persecution of the budding Radiants? The diagram apparently has contingency planning to destroy even the rebuilt Radiants. With Dalinar and the Radiants, the Diagram has already failed to an extent. At what point does reality diverge so much from the Diagram that Mr. T ditches it? The Diagram apparently has Mr. T destroying humanity's ability to fight. After he has thrown every realm into civil war and destroyed their fighting population along with any Radiants that pop up, how does Mr. T plan to fight the desolations? Mr. T asked the Nightwatcher for the ability to save humanity. The fluctuating intelligence is her apparent answer. Based on his point of view, Mr. T is monumentally stupid in what he thinks of as his brilliant times. He is murdering to get the information one of the Unmade is providing him. He is assiduously following a Diagram that he created on a day he was so "smart" that he is unlikely to ever be that smart again. Has he been led astray by Odium? There is a timing issue. Mr T seems to be motivated by Gavilar's visions that he was told about on the day of Gavilar's assassination in his POVs. Szeth is already a truthless and the death rattles have been happening for a year at this point. Either Szeth became a truthless on his own or Mr. T visited the Nightwatcher and had his special day before learning about Dalinar's visions. Is there any evidence supporting the idea that Mr. T had his day of "brilliance" after Szeth became Truthless? A. Ch 79 Epigraph B. Ch 80 Epigraph C. Ch 78 Epigraph D. Ch 87: E. Ch 84: Edit: added quotes, last question about timing of Diagram relative to Szeth becoming Truthless.

I assume the Parshendi got the knives in the ruins of Natanatan or from previous battles during other desolations, but either way, you would think they might have rusted away over centuries or millenia. A similar question is: Where did they get the Shards they had? Captured from Radiants in battle? But for the blades to be frozen, the Knights would have to have betrayed their oaths. Eshonai's POV has her taking guidance while in stormform, presumably from some of the unmade. I think the Parshmen, having no spren, will be taken over by the storm odiumspren. Parshmen with spren, like Rlain and the ones who escaped in the canyons, may be able to resist and help the humans. Eshonai, from I-11

Kaladin shows some natural aptitude for fighting even against the peasant boy in Hearthstone. He is an obvious candidate to be Honor's champion (along with Shallan and Jasnah, of course, but their orders are more linked to Cultivation). When he advances in level, it seems to get announced with great fanfare. He could be "just" a KR, while being an exceptional KR.

A creed of Knights A chorus of parshendi A despair of Voidbringers An audience of listeners An apathy of parshmen Edit: added audience and apathy

I like this! I like that the two men could be a man and a woman. The cover, to me clearly is meant to depict the moment when Kaladin lands after saving Dalinar and before fighting Szeth. The scene may not be exact, but for me, avoiding spoilers and artistic license covers the differences. I guess there could have been an earlier version where Shallan and Kaladin show up at the climactic battle with a gemheart after being lost, but it is hard to see his crisis not involving the king. Post-crisis, he could not have gotten lost in the canyons.

I don't see that assumption as justified. When your associates are thieves, you really don't want them knowing that you have a Shardblade. Even if they are not a threat, it's a pain to have to keep replacing them. In addition, you don't know who they might tell. It's just the sort of true lie that Pattern would appreciate. She could also have had a Shardblade sometime over the last 4500 years and then given it up.