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Everything posted by Yata
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
Yeah I understood that but it was wrong the concept that your "Cognitive Identity" is stored in Alluminium or it's responsable for accessing Metalmind or something like that. By the way I think we have not a proper term for that (except for "Mind" maybe) so in theory it's possible (but unlikely for the confusion) that Brandon would call that "cognitive identity"- 143 replies
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
The Spiritual Identity (actually the only "Identity" knowed in the Cosmere as Term) is like a waveform or maybe it's better to call it a tag present in all the Spirit Web. The Investiture intereferes with other Investiture if the Identies doesn't match. You may notice this simply as the kind of Attribute the "Identity" is. It's a Spiritual Attributes and you may notice this from: - The Feruchemy Table - The Ars Arcanum who explicity states it as "spiritual sense of identity" - From WoBs that explain what the Identity actually is - the fact that if someone crafts a Spike from someone and doesn't let the Spike to decay too much the Spike's reciver could pass from the Spike's Victim regard the Investiture's interactions (for example he could use the other other's metalmind if he has the power or he could retrive Breaths stored by the other). Niscosil Feruchemy instead Store the Innate Investiture in your Soul (the proper Spirit-Web's parts) and also this is expliciy stated by Wobs and the Nicrosil's effect (notice we don't know if the Niscrosil is limited to this, but "at least" it allows to store Innate Investiture) EDIT: I wrote the post in a messy way, I fixed a bit- 143 replies
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As other said Kelsier's Spike does "nothing special" so I will find unlikely for it to be made of Lerasium. Note also that whaterver a Lerasium Spike steals...An Atium Spike could steal it too. There are some theory regardless the Godmetal in Hemalurgy. We saw another godmetal, the so called "Trellium" be able to spike at least three different things (Physical Allomancy, Physical Feruchemy and an unknown attributes) this made many people (me included) to think that all the Godmetal if used as Spike could steal "everything" (as the Atium does) but with a special effect related too. The Atium's extra is the greater efficiency, the Trellium is maybe the "stealth status" and for Lerasium there are some speculation, of course baseless...but nice. Another possible explaination is that Godmetals Spikes would steal from a Attributes set (for example the Trellium could steal everything Physical related)
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Depending on the WoB's time and context the "silver's role" in Metallic Arts could be simply be part of an avaliable Alloy (Electrum)
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I think the "missing currency" is simply for a pratical reason. You could not use two "coin" with are too hard to compare. Probably the missing polestone in the currency system is too similar to another and instead of having a value issues they will use only the lesser valuable as currency.
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I am quite sure there is a Wob on Hoid aganist Nightblood who states that for Hoid would be hard to recover from Nightblood's damage (but therefore it's indeed possible). I will try to find it again but I am not too hopeful
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This is a doubt I had for a long time. An Inquisitor (or to be more precise everyone with a number of Spikes comparable to an Inquisitor) would be easy controllable by Vin's era Allomancers. The only solution I found on this is that the Copper Allomancy boosts the mental resistence (or if you prefer it mitigates the Hemalurgy weakness) and therefore Inquisitors were able to resist it in the case. It also to be noted the Inquisitors were not "free" for a long time. In the First book they are under TLR's control and in the Third under Ruin. Steal them from their master is a harder feat than simply take over them while they are free willed (as it was showed with the Koloss in book 3)
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yeah I know but the Stomach is where you probably hold the not invested Gold to compound later, burn an extenal metalmind (and I am quite sure you have to at least pierce your body with it to burn) would mean that the Metalmind will reduce his volume, probably be more loose and could simply fall or be removed easiier.
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The complete destruction of physical is no a problem for Cosmere's Healing (with an exception of KRfor a reason, I could only speculate).
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I know a Shardblade's cut be healed by Gold (and indeed every kind of Healing) but a "fatal Spiritual wound" could be different (I am not saying it is different, but it could be). Because if you "die" and your Soul is really cutted from your body...you in that situation may not be able to activate your access to your healing. Someone else could Heal you quite fine (we saw this in the books) but I am not sure about self healing from lethal Spiritual Damage (with mundane damage I have no problem at all, also because we saw already this kind of scenario).
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Yeah the more easy way is to pull a costant damage to their body and let their charge run out, it's the reason Miles carried explosive, to remove himself from mostly bad situations. Of course there are more efficient way on doing so, for example Rip their stomach out will prevent them from burning gold and therefore compound more than they have already (it's possible to remove some ingested goldmind too). If you want to stay in the "more magical way" a Leecher could be quite efficient in removing all the uninvested Gold in seconds and start to drain the Goldmind (if they are in the Compounder's System). Behead someone with Nightblood could or not work...first of all we don't know if Healing could heal at all a Spiritual Damage of that magnitudo (made by Nightblood or by a "simple" Shardblade), much more we don't know how a Cognitive Damage works...I suspect that destroying the Cognitive made the target physically fall apart, but it's only a speculation.
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Mainly in BoM when they explains ReLuur's situation. Notice that if there wasn't that limitation, the number of Kandra would be costant as they could re-use the old Spikes to make new Kandra born or also use other kind of Spikes (Inquisitor's Spikes or Koloss' spikes) to craft new youngling. The fact (from TFE) of Kandra have only paierd Blessing could misdirect but indeed a Kandra could be made easly with two different Blessings' metals (for example one Petwer and another Iron) IF the Blessings are made for him (indeed I think that more than "made for him" is something on the line "that Spike was never used by someone else") PS: In my previous post, I cited the unattuned Spike as a problem because IF your way to craft a new being works (and I doubt) the new Mistwrath will have a new Soul not a piece of the previous one. It's actually like (in Realmatic terms) if the Kandra A simply gave birth to a child, new Soul and new Cognitive...related to a some degree to the "parent" but mostly indipendent and different
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This will not work as the extra Spike is not attuned to him (I placed also that problem in my first answer here). It's the reason the Kandra can't simply use old Kandra's Spikes to make new Kandra). Those unattuned Spikes are fine as "extra Spikes" (as TenSoor shows) but they can't replace a missing "base spike" (Again as TeenSoor's attempt with ReLuur shows in BoM)
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Indeed as you read BoM, you saw how a single Spike Kandra becomes. The turning off pain receptors seems to be false as ReLuur's state without one of his spikes.
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If you split a Kandra in Half (or a Mistwrath in Half...it's the same thing). Just one of the two part will retain his Mind and Soul, the other part is just meat (with possible a Spike into). On another note, you have to notice that also if your method will be able to craft another Mistwrath's life....Both of them will be in intense pain and barelly lucid as they will have only a Single Blessing each (without calling in all the issue with the mismatching of identity between the Spike and the new Mistwrath as it will be a new being and not the same the Spike is attuned with)
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Like other said, Silver is allomantically inert as (allomantically useless) like platinum and other dozen of metals.
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
@Oversleep I already read all the WoB you proposed and I considerated this in my point. The problem with foreign godmetal from the WoB is the absence of ties with the godmetal's source (the shard) in the Magic User's spirit web. This is the reason I said that I think a Magic System without Spirit-Web restriction will be fine with and the one with a Spirit-Web requirement will be without possible users. About the Atium misting, I know...But Seers are an artificial Misting creating through Preservation's manipulation, you can't really take them as "the regular flow". If I don't remember wrong (i have to write this fastly and then go out), Calderis posted a WoB about the Shardblades as possible Spikes if they were not already "full" of Investiture. But here I think we are starting to mix many topic in a single one, so probably it's better to ignore my point and maybe I will start a new topic somewhere else. PS: Oversleep I will be out of home all the day, but you may contact me from Discord if the discussion need some answer of mine- 143 replies
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
ok now I got what you want to say, before I missed your point. First of all, as I said before, it is theorically possible to have a metal in the Metallic Arts that nobody could burn (for example imagine the Atium before Rashek's Ascension. Nobody could burn it but it was already a metal compatible with the Metalic Arts (and indeed Feruchemist and Hemalurgist could use it). In the same way, if a Shard isn't Invested in Scadrial, the Scadrial's magic user will have not the right S-genetic to burn or store/tap that metal (this is a bit unclear with Mistborn/Full Feruchemist and how far their "burn everything" goes). In this context you have right, Vin would be not able to burn Tanavastium or Raysium regardless they are Invested or not because she misses the right genetic to do....But a System without the genetic costrain (Hemalurgy) would work quite fine. Regard the "if the high Invested is not burnable, Vin can't burn Sazed's Metalmind" you have to put on the table the amount of Investure. A Shardblade (an example of Hyper Invested Godmetals' alloy) is so Invested to be almost impossible to influence with other magics (Allomancy for example) but this would be caused by the amount of Investure it carries. As proof, just took Nightblood, Nightblood is made of mundane metal (Steel) but for his insane amount of Investutre an Allomancer could not burn it. Also all the WoB regard the "burning Shardblade or burning Nightblood" refer to their insane amount of Investiture as the problem. Lastly notice that already the "standard Metalmind" starts to act differently than mundane metal. Alluminium/Chromium took a longer time to destroy them and they are affected only after the regular metal is removed. Yeah I suspected you misunderstood what I wrote ;-)- 143 replies
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
I am unsure to follow you here, why is Vin's attempt relevant to my point ? I didn't said that Old Magic doesn't follow Realmatic Rules, I said as it is not a magic system that it has not to follow the magic Systems' rules. For example (and I am quite sure to point this in a previous post on this topic) the Stormfather could manage the Highstorm, accelerate it and probably make them slow down. Would you call this a magic system ? is it not. It's an effect of a Splinter (the Stormfather) but it's not part of any magic system. The same thing are the Listeners' Forms this could potentially fit also with the Magic Systems' rules (if in the end we will discover that Roshar's focus is Bond or Spren) but it have not to. In the same way, the Old Magic could be a features unique of the Nightwatcher, a power of her and therefore we could not use the Magic Systems' rules to define. We may discover that the NW have to bond to a degree with the supplicant to mess with his Aspects (and honestly I think this is likely) but this has not to be the case. By the way, a powerful Splinter is not really constrained by the same mortal rules. We know that above a certain threeshold you could do almost everything with investiture and power (the Shards are a clear example) so it's not impossible a powerful Spren could do "weird stuff" in a limited scope.- 143 replies
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Leras was indeed alive until Kelsier pick up Preservation. The ghost part was mainly for Leras' Mind-loss. What we saw of Leras is someone who lost a decent amount of his Mind. But he was a fully living Vessel until the moment we saw/heard him die (and the dropping body is a proof). Probably if Leras wasn't holding a Shard, his mind suffering will render him completelly Mindless and the little he retains is only thanks to the expanded Mind a Vessel experience...but he was a living being for the whole time (well until he die in HoA)
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Well we know this for sure if I don't remember wrong. it was mainly in the regard of Odium. But Hoid managed to slip under Ruin's nose for a whole book and in an instance he was directly in Ruin's mouth. Anyway I am curious if the was to hide from a Shard is related to be stealthy or the opposite (be so bright to be not identificable)
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Gencon Hemalurgy WoB (Random realmatic discussion)
Yata replied to Calderis's topic in Cosmere Discussion
I think we are mixing together some indipendent aspects. First of all, the Old Magic is not a Magic System so try to make it fit with the Magic Systems' rules we know is probably a good way to screw all, then about the VoidBinding (the famous third Roshar's Magic System) we didn't see it yet (unless it is showed into OB's material, but I didn't read it) and therefore the Listeners' Forms of Power are not Voidbinding (again try to fit others phenomens with the Magic Systems' rules could be useless). Now I agree with the Bond as Roshar's Focus and I said this for more than a year, but I think on Roshar we could have some problem because as far as we know, some of the "magic expressions" we saw, could be caused by Braize's magics and therefore maybe we are trying to put all under the same set while there are two differents sets living togeher. Of course (and my previous posts made this quite explicit) I strongly believe as an unique focus for a determinate Shardworld and honestly for now nothing seems to point in other direction. But I have to disagree with Calderis here. I don't think the Shard's injection is a thing and much more I don't think it's the cause of what we saw with the Trellium. First a general point and then I will going into the specific case: The Magic Systems arose from Shardic Interactions with the Planets they invested into. For me this manifest as the Shards' Intent/Mandate dictate how you could access the magic and the planet (who "forces" the Focus) dictate how the Investiture is shaped by mortal users. So a specific planet would have a specific (and unique) focus. If another Shard arrives on a planet with already Shards and magics in it. He would (over time) develop new magics and maybe change a bit under special circumstances the one already present in it (for example, if Endowment travels to Scadrial and Invest into it....maybe over time a new Metallic Art with an Initiation related to Endowment will be born and maybe some other with Endowment in combination of Ruin or Preservation or both). Other Shards' Investiture could work under a Shardworld's magic if they are compatible. This is the reason any Splinter (Seon, Skaze, Nightblood and possibly Divine Breath,ecc...) could work with Roshar's Magic. Indeed this is to me the reason of Trellium working into the Metallic Arts, Trell isn't Invested into Scadrial (no more than Ruin would be Invested of Roshar if some Atium was trasported there) but his Godmetal will automatically be a recipient for the Metallic Arts (if we could create a not Insanelly Invested Tanavastium it would be compatible too for me, it's the amount of Investiture in a Shardblade who prevent it from be used in the metallic arts, its composition will be fine). The gods' pure essence (godmetals) is naturally affine to magic and it become compatible with appropriate magic (metal magic). To me Trell didn't Invested on Scadrial, He/She/It simply crafted some Trellium and send it to Scadrial. Now the tricky part, while with Roshar and Symbiontic Magic this could work perfectly fine at 100%, it's different with Scadrial's magic as it is mostly coded into their S-Web. So as Trell didn't invested on Scadrial, there is nobody that could be able to burn or store/tap Trellium (this could be different with a Mistborn or Full Feruchemist but there aren't). So is the Trellium magically useless on Scadrial ? Luckly no, because we have the Hemalurgy that doesn't need a specific S-Web to work and therefore it could be used with the Trellium perfectly. EDIT I forgot to mention something, probably it's implicit but for sake of clarity: The Trellium (and every other godmetal) will be perfectly work into Hemalurgy as a Spike everywhere in the Cosmere not only on Scadrial or because Trell send some of his godmetal there. To say if Odium creates some Raysium on Braize (I use Odium because he can't move from there), that Raysium is fine for a Spike on Braize. This is a bit different from Roshar's case where Brandon explicity tell us that Symbiotic magic is boosted there (probably for the weaker boundary between the Realms) PS: I wrote this whole post just after waking up, probably I will return later to fix some unavoidable grammar horror- 143 replies
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You could (with Skill) manipulate your Connection to your birthtime to make your Spiritual Age into an acceptable range (notice this could be performed with Feruchemy alone and there is no an incremental ratio over the centuries) TLR has no access to all the Metallic Arts' power for his own choice as he hid some of the Metals and stop the advance of technology need to explore better the metallurgy. Therefore he has not all Durallumin. But mainly as part of his plan he need to be there to burn away a great amount of Atium. TLR's plan was just a 1024 years long plan, he didn't need to keep it forever, just enough for the Well to fill again. Lastly, but this could be a minor boost, A-Cadmius allow you to live longer thanks to his time-manipulation skill (a Pulser could live for centuries with his power and a resonable amount of Cadmius)
