Young Bard

Could I ask a favour of everybody? I'll be online at rollover on Tuesday (or late on Monday night, if you're American...), but if you get to the Day 4 thread before I do, do you mind waiting to vote on Joe until after I do? One of my win cons is to lead the lynch on an [Evil] player, so it would help me greatly. *sigh* Fine. OK. Sure, you're a Child. I can't really be bothered arguing about this anymore, particularly since Independents aren't even mentioned in my win cons, so I don't particularly care if you are one. I highly doubt you're GOH, anyway.

But wouldn't end the game? I've still got goals to complete Your earlier post is directly contradictory to what your later post says. Just saying. Earlier post: "If Odium dies, the Children will win." Later post: "If all of God's Own Hatred dies, the Children will win." - Note: Mark just told you this after your earlier post, so the fact that you know it now doesn't mean too much. Really, I don't care that you're an Independent. In fact, if you reveal your goals, I'll do my best to help you unless they contradict with mine. But the more you keep on denying this, the more suspicious I get of you...

The fact that you didn't know the Children's win con makes it just a bit obvious that you're not a Child. I don't think you're GoH either right now, because I think that being in an open faction you'd have team-mates to correct your mistakes, so I'm guessing you're either an Independent or a closed-faction member, both of which are basically irrelevant to me, so I'm not trying to insinuate anything.

Huh. OK, you're not a Child of Adonalsium, that much is clear.

Do you think that Odium can survive another attack though, or will he die properly the next time we kill him? I'd rather we actually manage to kill Odium with the lynch tomorrow and be done with it.

Joe. If you're a Vessel with a kill, then I can't think of who else you'd be besides Odium. And I am beginning to get MR12 vibes from what's going on, but I don't consider the theory that GOH needing to kill the Ghostbloods likely, although it could be possible for an individual win con. We only have the names of about 4 Ghostbloods maximum, which is far too few to credibly challenge the village in a game this big. Question for everyone here: What's Luckat's and Joe's planets, and which do you think I should visit next cycle?

I'll join the 'asexual' club. When I first started reading books which had more adult scenes in theme and my friends started taking an interest in that kind of thing, I sort still found something vaguely... unsanitary about the whole process. Wait, you find it enjoyable to do what?! *shivers slightly* Over time, my stance on it sort of moved to ambivalence, although I still find scenes that are particularly detailed slightly weird. The thing is, beauty isn't a set tradition. There is no one things that resembles beauty, and it changes over time. In the Elizabethan Era, an 'ambivalent' look was considered beautiful. In the Victorian Era, thin-ness was considered ugly, as it was seen as a symbol of malnourishment, which considered right up until Hollywood movies changed the style again. So when people ask me whether I recognize 'beauty', that's my response. Beauty, at it's heart, is purely subjective, at this point in time one that is largely influenced by the media, so I see no reason to follow that trend if I don't feel like it. Oh, Claincy, an alternative I've heard to 'grey asexual/aromantic' is 'demisexual/demiromantic'.

I think Elbereth noticed this before. I saw a note of it in Wilson's spreadsheet, and there was discussion that duplicates would be created, though I'm not sure whether that ever happened, because the link doesn't seem to have been updated... However, I just checked MR7, and they do appear to be gone forever, unfortunately... I can't seem to find any other way around that. Shame to lose all of the faction docs...

I see name (as in in-game name i.e. Mraize) and alignment, but not homeworld, though I consider myself quite savvy in my Cosmere knowledge, so I can usually tell what planets people are from without being told. I can't target living people, either, but I think they balanced that because by the looks of things Wilson is an independent, and I'm a Child. If what you say is true, Wilson, do you mind scanning me to get verification I'm village? It's not foolproof, because we could both be GOH, but it would go a long way of confirming that I'm not manipulating the thread with my scan results.

Brandon Sanderson. Thanks for contributing to the game talk. I was not attacked last night. I'm pretty sure they were the only things that I need to directly respond to, but I'll give a more in depth post when I get home tonight, which will be very late (probably 7-8 hours from now, or close to midnight AEST) EDIT: One more thing - the no colours from scans thing was a mistake on behalf of the GM. The Ghostbloods colour is pink, as Joe said it was, which makes me convinced he's telling the truth more than anything else.

"with us using our abilities effectively"... surely the best of our abilities that we have is the lynch? I find this plan flawed, because you're assuming that God's Own Hate will show some amount of moderation or hesitation, which I don't share your faith in, and I count myself and the village lucky that it was blocked. If you want to halt the lynch until we have solid evidence, then we'll never reach a point where we have a lynch. At a certain point, you need to take a gamble and trust your instincts in these games. If we don't, we'll slowly get whittled down one by one. Take Silverblade's role, for instance. He has the potential to reveal the Eliminators, so I don't doubt they have him pegged on their kill list to die before he can reveal them, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was their target last night, although that might be a bit obvious. Nevertheless, if you have a protect ability, I thoroughly suggest you keep SB safe. The longer that this gets dragged out and we don't lynch, the more Silverblades, the more innocent villagers with useful roles now gone from us, are left behind, and your strategy of waiting and collecting information but not doing nothing with it gets flushed down the toilet with the now dead village roles. The other thing - I do not (yet) want to lynch Darkness/Brandon. I want to vote on him, which is something else entirely. My argument is more of a poke vote than anything else, trying to get some more discussion going among the players that are either too shy to weigh in with their opinion, or too eager to hide in the background to avoid getting analyzed. In addition, I've spoken with Darkness before on non-SE related matters, so I think I could have a better chance of spotting him out more than any of the other inactives (I found him a bit more jovial and jokey than he was when I spoke with him before, for the record, but I'd say it's probably him trying to fit in with the community.) Finally, it was too ripe a temptation not to commit sacrilege and vote for 'Brandon Sanderson', though I like to pretend that that's just a happy side effect... Do you have any players you find suspicious? Anything players you particularly trust? Something else you feel might be relevant to who get's lynched today? People talking about these things makes us easier to draw connections between players, so it becomes a lot easier to find someone's docmates even after only one person's cover is blown - provided they've left behind a trail of trusts and suspicions. Take the discussion of a Day 1 lynch, for example. Most of us here have played these games before, so each of us has probably made up our minds as to whether a Day 1 lynch is worthwhile or not, but this is all new to you, so it might provide a fresh light to hear your opinions, as well as joining the group discussion so we can lynch you so we can all be happy and be friends. I can see the merits in this plan, but just to clarify: You're assuming Awakeners can see the Investiture of all the planets they're on? I didn't know that. Also, you're assuming everyone (including Rayse) will just sit around waiting for the Awakeners to do their rounds, where they're probably also rotating around, making it much harder to track down everyone, especially if they try to be avoided.

Mraize of the Ghostbloods. Personally, I'm pleased - he's not one of Odium's gang, but I doubt the Ghostbloods are going to be our allies, particularly seeing as Mage was carrying a vial of poison and a silver knife (though it's been speculated that the knife is meant to ward off shades rather than have an aggressive role, but still...) Unfortunately, I don't have a colour for the Ghostbloods, so I'll refer to them from now on in a grey-silver, though this might not be their real colour. That's all I have, unfortunately. I'm inclined to think that the Ghostbloods were an Open Faction, as I wasn't struck by a whole heap of suspicion by anyone defending Mage (although I did find a few people pushing for Stink's lynch strange, but I'll discuss that when I get home.) For now, I'll toss a vote at Brandon Sanderson, because I'd like to hear his thoughts on the game so far. I've seen him post a few times, so he's active, but he's said nothing but Meta and OOG talk, which could be because he's a new eliminator and is trying to be cautious and avoid anyone getting a read on him. Also, it would amuse me greatly to lynch Brandon Sanderson. @Darkness Ascendant

Because I felt it was the best choice available to me, for a number of reasons. There has been a question of whether or not a Day 1 lynch is advisable in many previous games. Ultimately, the answer has usually been a resounding 'yes', because the results of the lynch can then either cast suspicion on, or absolve, various players from being an Eliminator. However, people decided this should not be the case this game because results are not revealed, so we do not gain information from a Day 1 lynch... Except we do. I confirmed, soon followed by Wilson, that there are scans on dead players available, and I'm fairly certain that if there are 2 of us that have revealed to the thread, there's probably one player that also has an ability like that, and hasn't revealed yet. Now, even supposing I were an Eliminator, and attempted to give out false readings to suit my purpose, we have another player now that can verify doubtful scans, meaning that there's a much greater chance of getting caught, and with that risk, I'm a lot less likely to try in the first place. In addition, suppose we didn't have a Day 1 lynch, because there wasn't enough evidence. What then? Night 1, we have at least one kill from God's Own Hate, SK Independents, Child Vigilantes (oh god...) that may or may not be right, and none of the causes of death, roles, or alignments are revealed. Now, even if I'd come out, and I was on the same world as one of the deceased, I still wouldn't be able to send in the order to scan their deaths until Night 2, to reveal on Day 3, by which chance there could well have been another pile-up of bodies. So, on Day 2, what will you do? You still have no evidence, so do you not have a lynch on that day either? Do you keep letting the body count rise, until God's Own Hate outnumbers the Children and they accomplish their win con? Remember, we only outnumber them 2:1:3 if my world is anything to go by... And finally, I did want to scan a body, as Ecth pointed out, because that is my main ability and I have a win con based on that ability. In fact, I probably had more reason to vote for Mage than anyone else in the thread (as people in my World PM know), but I chose not to until the last hour of the game because I felt the faction goal, particularly with the ratios so close, was a lot more urgent. And I say last hour, because I made it quite clear what I was going to do 45 minutes before the game ended, as I posted here. For those who can't be bothered clicking on the link, here's a quote of the relevant paragraph. (bolded done just now) So, yes, technically, it was a last second lynch. But as far as last second lynches go, it's probably the most open and honest last second lynches in the history of SE, and I don't regret my choice.

I don't think they did. I think you missed the late vote switches.

The good news? You'll all get the result of the scan tonight, because Mage was on my world. So, we'll get the results of the lynch eventually, but not immediately.

I know it! *grumbles* But Weeks is definitely in my top 10 authors and possibly in my top 5, and I do thoroughly recommend giving it a read. If you don't take my or Meta's word for it, then listen to Peter Ahlstrom talk about how awesome this series is.

Ecthelion, sorry Mage

Joe was the first to say "Child", the person on my world was first to give the full faction name, the Children of Adonalsium, along with the factions win con. I just double-checked. Both are basically soft-cleared in my head. This is correct. I have an ability like this, and I already told my World PM, so I'm fairly sure God's Own Hate already knows. Joe, I could use your protection. However, I'm wondering how you could possibly know this, because I told my World PM and no other PM's are allowed this game. Honestly, I'd vote on you if it weren't 45 minutes to rollover, and if I didn't think you're a better Eliminator than to brandy about information you're not supposed to have. Right now it's a tie between Ecth and Mage. I am in support of a Day 1 lynch, particularly since I can confirm the roles/alignments of dead players, so I will do what I can in order to make sure a Day 1 lynch happens, as it tells us (me in particular) information. For the sake of not appearing to vote change at the last second, I'll say this now. If it remains a tie at rollover, I'll swap my vote from Ecth to Mage. If Ecth pulls ahead, I'll keep my vote where it is. If Mage pulls ahead, I'll swap my vote to Mage in order to be more sure that there won't be vote manipulations to prevent a lynch. Mage, I'm sorry if you get lynched because of me, but it's the most logical choice available to me.

(Psssttt... You didn't answer my question before. ) Plus, I have another question. What are the PM Rules this game? Also, what is the Order of Actions in this game?

What? EDIT: Thinking about Aman's plan, I think it would be a good idea that if someone is killed the previous night, someone from their world reveals the list from their world. That way, we get all the information that we need to trace the Eliminators while maintaining a measure of secrecy from the World Destroyer. Does anyone have any objection to that plan?

You might have to bite your own words, Mage. There's a fair chance that the person with the most votes at the end of the cycle will be you.

Did these come from your goals or from your flavour text? Remember, this is used to represent potential characters, not confirmed ones. God's Own Hate is confirmed as Odium's faction.

I'd kind of suspected you'd grow more paranoid about me after LG24, and couldn't rely on gratuitous village reads from you anymore. I'll just have to try harder, then... Also, who's BB? I'm having a mind-blank.

Ah. Sorry, that's my mistake. However, my main point remains.

Really? I suppose it's Day 1, so it would almost be intriguing to see what happens with this, but in general, I don't support this kind of vote. Particularly as the game gets close, eliminators can use this kind of vote as a springboard to shift the vote away from one of their own by switching at the last minute (colloquially called a 'hammer'). Plus, tricks like this can make you appear active to the casual observer by voting and participating in the thread while really not contributing anything at all. *sigh* Why do I even bother... I'm not particularly suspicious of Stink. If it comes down to Stink v. Magestar, I'll probably vote for Magestar, but I'd prefer to hear a bit more from Mage in particular before it comes to that. In the meantime, I'll vote for Ecthelion III. While I don't agree with Straw's plan - Highlighted Characters only give potential player names, rather than confirmed ones, and therefore aren't worth the risk - but that's a far cry on saying that Straw's aiming to find out who Odium's enemies are so he can kill them. In fact, I'd say Odium would probably be just as likely to hit his allies - Autonomy or Eshonai - then he would his enemies. You seem like you're grasping for straws (pun not intended...) when you try to find reasoning to vote for him. I also find your earlier vote on Stink similarly worrying - it feels more like a bandwagon in order to discredit someone then an attempt at catching an Eliminator.