Blightsong

Like I said, its up to interpretation, just something I thought could be relevant. Also, the disease magic apparently was not always the magic system on Ashyn:

There is some evidence to suggest that the Singers didnt use any magics prior to the First Desolation in the Eila Stele but its up to interpretation.

Two more recent WoB on this topic came up that bring things together a bit more: Good to see confirmation one of the (safer) theories in my OP, that Voidbinding originates with the Unmade. The second WoB further limits the number of potential magic systems that the original human refugees used.

I still think the voices might be Shadows, just ones with a Spiritual Connection strong enough to allow communication. Odium in particular has a thing for turning the dead of those slain into CS', and the voices have given several hints that they are associated with Odium. I have a recent theory, or couple of theories rather, related to all of this that I know Cal disagrees with but I think its a valid alternative theory.

I'm wary to draw parallels between how Sazed talks about these things and how these phrases are used on Roshar. Roshar has a long history of interaction with spren and with understanding their nature and the terminology there seems to be a lot more Investiture focused, read the below passage from Ivory: He directly ties the corruption of Glys' intent to it being "of Odium"; these phrases are obviously being used in different ways here and I lean more towards the precedent being set within the same series. Your interpretation could definitely be correct but I think mine is just as valid. When Honor says this, it always seemed to me that it was within the context of humanity being able to somehow utilize them against Odium, being brought up directly in connection to the success they would have if they forced Odium to choose a champion. Honor was a little all over the place at the end, and with what we learn at the end of Oathbringer about what Honor thought about the Dawnshards there may be more interpretations as to his meaning here, but they would all be awkward non-sequiturs in my eyes. In my presumed context, having a Dawnshard trapped and being able to utilize them are two different things so my theory would still make sense. The Sibling had also become catatonic by this point so that fits as well. I could see why you would be hung up on that quote but I feel like a very strict interpretation of what he means by "without" is necessary for it to disprove my theory, even within interpretations other than my own things could still fit. I really don't think that where these entities are physically (or cognitively) now holds much relevance as to where they originated. As you mentioned, the Fused became trapped on Braize following the Oathpact despite originally being Rosharan natives and having nothing to do with Braize other than being of Odium. We dont even know if other non-Fused Cognitive Entities are locked in Braize or if its just them, the Stormfather says that the Oathpact was meant specifically meant to lock away the Fused in the below passage because of their ability to directly affect the PR and kill people. Any power leveled on them wouldn't necessarily affect the Unmade as well, so it makes sense that they would be spared its effects: The Unmade would obviously be of most use sticking around on and influencing Roshar, so them constantly being there makes way more sense than them being on Braize for no reason, but that doesn't mean Roshar is their origin. The connection they have to Voidbinding and the slight evidence we now have as to Voidbindings origins could point to them originating on Ashyn, but that remains one of the more tenuous conjectures in my theory so I'll put leave this reply here and tell y'all to take that statement with a grain of salt. Thanks for the in depth reply Page, I've been waiting for your response.

In the WoK, Hoid tells the story of a group of people who committed horrible things under the orders of a king only to discover that that king had been dead for years, and that they were responsible for their horrible actions. The dead king is discovered in the passage below: “Derethil and his men came out of the tower a short time later, carrying a desiccated corpse in fine robes and jewelry. ‘This is your emperor?’ Derethil demanded. ‘We found him in the top room, alone.’ It appeared that the man had been dead for years, but nobody had dared enter his tower. They were too frightened of him." In the final chapter Dalinar finally realizes that the Almighty hadn't been talking in response to him, that he hadn't been following orders but had been misinterpreting the visions. He then learns that the Almighty is dead. The title of this final chapter? In the Top Room.

I've started thinking about this more and I think I see where this specific problem could lie. We know through the famous Argent WoB that Renarin was definitely Voidbinding, but we havent seen hints of anything else like his bond yet. It's interesting then that Nightform Listeners seem to be able to manipulate the same Voidbinding surge as him (likely through a form, as the name implies, and not a bond like Renarin). Just as the Singers with forms of power are able to use Surges outside of the KR magic system and its rules, it seems as if there are Singers who could use Voidbinding surges as well. Its curious to me that the form associated with Renarin's powers (granted to him by Sja-Anat's corrupted spren) is described as "The form of shadows", imagery we see associated with Sja-Anat in Oathbringer: I could easily see the historical distinction between these two kinds of Voidbinding as the issue Brandon is alluding to here. What are your guy's thoughts?

We got some WoB relevant to this theory from the Skype Q&A so I thought I'd go over that stuff here real quick. First up, one on my conjectures on Voidbinding: I'm pretty confused as to what that first part could be getting at, as he left it about as vague as he possibly could as to what he was specifically referring to. That last part, however, did narrow down some options. We know that the surges related to the powers of the Heralds and Surgebinding are a direct manifestation of Honor, so this eliminates the portion of fabrial magic that draws upon those surges to function. At this point we know it was likely Voidbinding, the Old Magic, some other Ashyn related system, or possibly fabrials that manipulate any of those. I'm glad this one didn't get RAFOed outright. This question is a bit more important though and is some of the most concrete proof that perhaps the Sibling is more than they appear. Read the below WoB: That first WoB, coupled with the fact that the Sibling is non-binary is great evidence that the spren could have existed prior to the desolation of Ashyn, which supports the claims I make in this theory as to its nature. All in all, pretty cool stuff. Big thanks to whoever asked my question for me.

Honor didn't have to be involved in Cultivation's decision to follow him as well.

Just wanted to back this up with a relevant WoB.

HYPEGENT! Doesn't quite work as well does it...

I'll be there! Hopefully the stars align a little better for Q&As this time around.

I feel like this point actually backs up my notion that these aren't just spiritual echoes as @Calderis expects. We know that regular Shardblades don't kill the Fused as implied in this WoB: And that some of these voices are almost definitely fused/CS (emphasis mine): These voices seem to be more lucid and coherent, which makes sense. My guess is that a Connection is formed between the Heralds and these fused just like the Connection going on with the other voices, it's just a different type of CS on the other end.

I updated my response since you saw it I think, but I've also never made the assertion that this happens to every person on Roshar.

I would assume it is Odium's investiture. His power, and that of the Unamde specifically, seem to be powered by death. Just look at that quote we have about Yelig-nar being followed by the wails of those he consumes. Each instances of these voices appearing seem to involve Odium's direct influence (at leaast through the Unmade), so the Investiture needed would theoretically be there.

We've seen him regain lucidity before (when he sees Shallan Lightweave) and while it wasnt as full a restoration as in OB the fact that it didn't happen during any kind of event related to Honor, or his perpendicularity (like a highstorm), leads me to believe that it had more to do with him seeing Ash.

Introduction After writing up my theory on the voices various characters throughout the series seem to hear I realized we didn't really know what these voices even were. I gave my best idea on why they affect the people they do but not what they were, so after thinking about it I found the answer I came up with to be quite simple and obvious so I thought I'd share my reasoning. If you find any discrepancies or stuff that doesn't make sense, please drop a comment. Enjoy! TLDR; What We Know First, let's take a look at what we know about these screams. Nale has had this to say about them: Brandon has further backed up what Nale gave us with this quote (which references the passage from Szeth's POV that I've put below as well). Brandon's response here stands out to me here for one reason in particular. He says that they are "slightly" attached to the spiritual realm. With the Nale quote above I'd always assumed this meant that what caused them was Spiritual in nature, but it seems like that is only the method through which they communicate with whoever they are haunting. This lead me to one conclusion; they are Cognitive Shadows. Cognitive Shadows Before I explain why this makes sense, read what Khriss has to say about what Cognitive Shaodws are realmatically: That first sentence in particular reminded me of something relevant to all this, Shallan's illusions. Read this quote from the end of Oathbringer when Shallan is battling with Amaram's forces: While obviously Shallan isn't creating Cognitive Shadows, it seems like she's imprinting on excess investiture, creating Cognitive entities that do not have expanded souls and thus disappear. The sapient nature of these screams is even displayed in Oathbringer. Read this quote from one of these voices at the end of Oathbringer: Looking back, we've seen communication from cognitive entities before, and it was facilitated through Spiritual Connection, just as Nale says. Read the below quote from Secret History: Conclusion This answer seems pretty intuitive to me and seems in line with the mechanics we know about Cognitive Shadows. I have some more ideas that are a little less well supported on this topic but I think I'll leave it off here; I don't want to taint the pretty solid nature of this post with crackpot. Let me know what you guys think!

I'm cautious to prescribe any effects we see from the Unmade to their theorized previous nature. We dont know what their corruption could have changed.

Found this quote today from when Szeth encounter Nergaoul, I think it lends to the theory a bit, or at least the part theorizing the Heralds have a Connection to the Unmade. Especially considering this quote from Secret History:

They weren't just her own, here's the relevant WoB: The wording here is so vague I'm positive he slipped out of my question; "but would someone else in the Cosmere who had gone through what he had gone through hear those screams, yes." This doesnt really say anything. How many people in the Cosmere have gone through what Szeth has gone through? He's done and been a part of some very crazy unusual thing. Yup, I agree as I say in the post. He's not better but the rest think he's better. I was going off why I think they believe that.

Introduction Going back all the way to the WoK I've been theorizing as to why Szeth hears the screams that he does. It never seemed like too big a mystery but it was still interesting. When we finally got a straight answer in Oatbringer I was initially satisfied until I thought about it a little bit more. Here's the explanation Nale gives: It made sense and was along the lines of what I'd been thinking for awhile. The only thing different about Szeth was that he was using the Honorblade, so it just made sense until I realized we saw the exact same thing happen to Dalinar and Eshonai, people who had never wielded one. The Madness of the Heralds So when trying to understand why these characters are all experiencing the same phenomenon I decided to look into all accounts we had of the different Herald's Madness'. I came across this quote from Nale: That last part stood out to me in particular, but I didn't really have an idea of what could have set Ishar apart from the rest until I remembered a particularly relevant part from a Dalinar flashback. When Dalinar turns to drinking to push away the voices he now hears he befriends all of our favorite mad beggar, Jezrien, who seems to be rambling through their conversation incoherently. He has this to say at one point: When I first read this line I thought it was just Jezrien being able to see some effect from Nergaoul on Dalinar through some strange Herald-sense but the line I emphasized gave me pause this time. He implies that he can legitimately relate to what he sees in Dalinar and quite heavy handedly says that Unmade are the cause, then says that he is able to even sense them, implying a Connection. Linking this idea of Heralds and the Unmade I remembered this WoB: I'd always assumed that the Herald's madness was mostly because of the torture they endured, but perhaps that torture wasn't purely physical, as surely Ishar wouldn't have been able to mentally withstand it better than Taln. Now, I don't mean to imply that Ishar isn't mad, he obviously is, but there must be some reason both Nale and Ash believe him to be sane. The below deathrattle from Taln's perspective made me even more certain that the torture they endured involved more then just pain, and that they possibly were each assigned an Unmade, leading the rest of the Heralds to believe that Ishar wasn't going through what the rest of them were: I doubt the other Heralds not being on Braize would've ramped up the physical torture. The Unmade So what could the Unmade have been doing to the Heralds as well as Dalinar and Eshonai? Well this specific WoB about how Odium uses the Unmade on Roshar stood out to me: Looking back, we've seen stuff exactly like how Ruin's influence is described from both Dalinar and Eshonai, two people pivotal to Odium's plans who he would have wanted influence over. Read the below quotes: Notice the lack of emotion, similar to what Nale describes. This is almost exactly what we see in Mistborn. Looking back, I'm surprised i didn't find the lack of similar behavior in Venli in Oathbringer suspicious. Throughout the book she seems much more level headed then Eshonai did despite also holding a form of power and not being any further in the Oaths than Eshonai was for almost the entire time, and guess what? No screaming either. Looking back we even see similar behavior with Szeth. Remember his behavior in WoR, when we know he was almost definitely being closely followed by Odium. These quotes are before his before his first attack on Dalinar: Sounds kinda like the presence Shallan felt in Uritheru when Re-Shephir was there. Now read this quote: Sounds exactly like the effect of an Unmade to me, almost exactly like what we see from someone getting rioted too un-subtly. The compounded effect of this paired with his bond to the Honorblade and subsequent stronger connection to the Unmade (showcased by Jezrien), could explain why Szeth's madness seems so much worse than Dalinar or Eshonai's. Conclusion In conclusion, it seems like the Heralds hold a direct Connection to the Unmade, and that their direct effect could cause the deaths of those you kill to haunt you. It makes sense, as we know that death is associated with powering the various Unmade's effects. I'm open to criticism on a lot of the details of this theory, especially the parts about Ishar, but overall I think Jezrien's quote is a pretty blatant hint towards the foundation of this theory holding some truth. Let me know what you guys think! Edit: Find my follow up to this theory here.

Looks like I'm gonna be making the Chicago date, see some of y'all there

I think this is where our main disagreement is. In that quote, the Stromfather says the powers themselves, not the wielders of the magic, weren't even named at that point (before the first desolation). Even if they weren't called Windrunning, I dont think the powers wouldnt have been named up until that point. You could say he meant that last part to mean that his soul was tied to the powers, but in the context of the first part I think thats a stretch. The clear interpretation of this part is that the powers didn't exist until Jezrien. In light of that, the rest of your argument doesn't really work. I'm willing to agree to disagree over the cymantics but I really dont think Brandon would be that misleading, he would have simply said "a man whose powers did not bear that name". I'm not disagreeing with you guys on this point, it really is just that one line. The below WoB also implies what i'm saying to be true. edit: Actually, I do disagree. This vision was during the cycle of desolations so Ishar would have made sure they were organized as explained below. That part "he readily understood the implications of surges being granted to men" implies that they weren't granted before the Heralds existed. You could kind of dismiss these two pieces of evidence individually, maybe not the first one, but together I'm pretty convinced. I'd have to be shown direct evidence that Surgebinding existed pre-heralds to think otherwise.

I'm wary to make a conjecture on when exactly they were changed and other details because we barely have information about this stuff, but the hints are there that the Unmade involve investiture that was corrupted.

That first quote isnt a Listener song, it is the Eila Stele, a document written before the cycle of desolations: Read these too, both from the Stormfather: This means that the Spren who granted the surges and betrayed men from that first quote couldnt have been the modern Radiant-spren we see today. It just doesnt work in the timeline laid out for us. I made that assumption too but i think the repeated use of the word 'betrayal' was a red herring. This also holds true for that bit of the Listener's songs if you go back and read it.