Blightsong

Im on mobile and can't properly format, I will reply in the order that you responded. I would also like to preface this by saying that I don't belive that Cryptics are 100% Cultivation, as you belive that they are 100% Honor based on your above posts. There is obviously mixing, although I think that Cryptics are mostly cultivation. As always, WoB I mention will be at the bottom of my post. I don't remember exactly where pattern lies, and I don't have my books on me. If anyone remembers please pitch in. Your metaphor doesn't really work. You are comparing culture to the very nature of these creatures themselves. While certain things are seen as offensive in different cultures, it isn't about offense with the spren. They find it challenging, if not impossible to act outside of their nature. Before you try to tell me I'm wrong, I'm not. I have WoB that spren find it difficult to act outside of its nature. As for Cryptics, as I said in my previous post, it says on the in universe WoR that Cryptics seek to push their Knights towards self awareness, something very much cultivation like. This is done through becoming honest with one self, which is something more related to Honor. So they have a Cultivation like goal with Honorable means. This storeys the theory that Cryptics are a hybrid. First off, Cryptics, and other spren, ate almost definitly attracted to the potential for the attributes they wish to promote within, not the attributes themselves. I find it strange that you are trying to argue that Shallan of all people is truthful to herself. I also want to point out that Kaladin was going to give up on multiple occasions without prodding from Syl to do otherwise, once when he was going to throw himself into the chasm, another tone when he was going to give up on bridge 4 after surviving the storm, and finally when he was thinking about helping Moash kill Elhokar. He isn't always all about protecting and leading, but his dorm helps him move towards that, just as Cryptics lead their Radiants to be more self aware. That just isn't the definition of Honor, as I said above we have just need conditioned by society to think of honor as upholding morals. Honor is, an this is from Google not me, to fulfill (an obligation) or keep (an agreement). That agreement can be immoral. Ever heard of honor among thieves? This idea is further supported by the fact that Honor spren can be what we would consider evil. If you are not making inquiries about the nature of these spren and are just talking about whet they will be called in future books than you should have posted this in the SA forums, me and many others tend to get very nitty and gritty on the nature of the magic in these forums. When you said he 'is' cultivation spren I took that to mean that you believed that to be his very nature. WoB INTERVIEW: Apr 8th, 2016 OdysseyCon 2016 BLIGHTSONG Can Honor spren, or any other type of Knight Radiant spren, be evil? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, because I don't call the shards good and evil. There are no good and evil shards in my opinion, like and so, what evil and what's not evil can totally have spren of honor that you would consider evil. They have free will, but they are much more limited. It is very hard, or impossible, for them to lie but they can be cruel. TAGS Spren, honor, knights radiant

I have been developing a theory on why bodies of water in the cognitive realms of the planets we have seen seem to manifest as solid bodies while everything else seems to be incorporeal. I think that Leras actually gave us the answer. When Kelsier approaches the lake where he meets Khriss and Nazh he is weirded out by the fact that the mists seem to "congeal" where the lake begins. Leras remarks that this is because of the way men think and "where they are likely to pass." I think that what he is saying here is that bodies of water congeal like this because of how we observe things and specifically how we perceive bodies of water, especially how we think of them in terms of how we move through them. I think that as humans we think of bodies of water as one entity. When I say "The Atlantic Ocean" we don't think of the individual atoms of water, or even individual different regions of the land, but rather we think of it as one mass. One entity. However, when I'm walking down a sidewalk I think of every block of concrete, every rock and blade of grass. So when human ideas shape these different things bodies of water are shaped into one mass, while land is seen as many different things at once. Let me know what you guys think.

I just want to point out that Pattern actually straight up lies. He tells actual untruths. Yes he is bad at it, but that almost definitly has to do with his personality, not the nature of Cryptics in general. Syl, who we know is definitly of Honor, is disgusted by lies. She is extremely offended when Kal accuses her of doing so. We see none of this behavior from Pattern. Also, how exactly are Cryptics attracted to truths? Yes, their bond is strengthened by truths, Words of radiance (in world) says that they try to obtain a higher sense of self awareness. This is a lot more in line with Cultivation, which is associated with development and acquiring. Cryptics seek out those who lie to themselves, like Shallan does. This is what attracts them, hiding ones own self from themselves, so that they may cultivate a higher sense of self awareness. This is a mistake I often seen made in relation to this shard, while telling white lies can be the 'good' thing to do it isn't the 'honorable' thing. Our culture has mixed those two things in their use, and good people are usually honorable, but the Shard itself is separated from the virtues that give it context. Honor can be cruel, Brandon even confirmed to me that amy Honorspren can be cruel despite its intent. They're is very little honorable about Liespren, and I don't see how a being who can seemingly lie itself could be of Honor. They would have to betray their own nature. Relevant arguements above. I would say that helping one be more then they are is 100% Cultivation. The Nightwatcher does have a vague relationship to Cultivation, I'm not saying that they aren't related, I'm just saying that the Nightwatcher isn't Cultivation. Those two are synonymous. This is basicly the one thing about that relationship that brandon has confirmed. We don't know much about spren, but I think it is naive to put spren into either the category of Honor or Cultivation when we know that spren existed on Roshar before those two ever showed up. That quote spells out why Wyndle isn't 'the' cultivation spren. Is because there are several other spren that could be considered that. Just like how Honorspren aren't exactly 'the' honor spren. There are several other spren that consider themselves so.

We know that investiture helps bring the three realms together and that one can even slip into a different realm if there is a large enough amount of investiture, so this makes a lot of sense. I like it.

The answer is from like a week ago...

Yea, when Nalan tells Szeth that he should bring retribution to the Shin he remarks that they have the Honorblades and that he would have to fight people with powers. They are definitely in Shinovar.

I think you are mistaken in a couple places. First off, the Nightwatcher isn't Cultivation. She is related to Cultivation, but we don't know/are certain that she isn't the actual being of Cultivation. Second, we don't know if Cultivation produces nature spren while Honor produces emotion spren. Just the fact that Syl is 'cousins' with the windspren kind of disproves this. Many people think that these spren are splinters of Adonalsium himself. Also, we don't know that Cryptics are of Honor, why would a LIEspren be of Honor? As for the actual topic, Wyndle is of Cultivation, but his kind of spren isn't exactly THE cultivation spren. Relevant WoB below. INTERVIEW: Mar 11th, 2014 WoR Signing Report - Awesomeness Summoned (Verbatim) QUESTION Is the Nightwatcher a spren of Cultivation in a similar way that the Stormfather is to Honor? BRANDON SANDERSON The Nightwatcher is not Cultivation but is related. You're on the right track. TAGS nightwatcher, cultivation, BRANDON SANDERSON They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other splinters. WETLANDER Are the highstorms related to the splintering of Honor? BRANDON SANDERSON The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. You have seen splinters quite a bit on various planets. TAGS adonalsium, spren, splinters, slivers, QUESTION Syl identifies herself as an honorspren. BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. QUESTION Would Wyndle identify himself as a cultivation spren? [Pause] BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. I think you could say that he would. QUESTION By the same logic, would a voidspren follow the same naming convention, so to speak? BRANDON SANDERSON Here's the thing. Certain spren have decided that they are the most pure forms of honor, or that they are the most pure form of whatever, where all of them are kind of... Syl's got a good argument for what she is. But there are other spren that would be like "well, I'm an honorspren too, I'm just this variety of honorspren." Does that make sense? Syl's like "I'm an American!" and I'm like "I'm an Alaskan!" Yes, you're an American. I'm an American too. It's kind of similar to that. But she would be the most pure... many would view her as the purest form. Wyndle would view himself as the purest form of a cultivation spren. TAGS spren,

I don't think 'Adonalsium's' opposite is quite what you think it is, relevant WoB below.INTERVIEW: Feb 22nd, 2016 Calamity-Chicago QUESTION Was the shattering of Adonalsium done, for the forces to attack the Anti-Adonalsium? BRANDON SANDERSON You’re focusing too much on the idea of the anti-adonalsium. What was really asked is “is there a force that opposes Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed it was a force, or any person who opposed Adonalsium you could say is a force. What they were trying to get was a “devil” but that assumes Adonalsium is a more Christian-style God, and I have not confirmed any of that. TAGS Adonalsium, shattering,

In my theory, at least, the day of the diagram itself is a fabrication. Taravangian never actually gained incredible intelligence. He was controlled by Odium to scribble all he did, and then had his memory wiped. Odium knew that Taravangian had reason to believe in what he was writing and would thus follow through with it. Like I said, it's just my theory but it makes sense to me.

I wonder what he was then... saying he's "a little more complicated than that" implies that he wasn't quite alive. We'lll have to see, I guess.

Are you so sure? I'll drop some quotes down below. I'm pretty sure that at that point Leras was pretty dead, and all the actions we see were pre arranged. I still think that he ment that he was litteraly dead, he is quite adamant on that point. I think it was the power that was still alive and acting in accordance to his plan. Hero of Ages Epigraph 60 The prison Preservation created for Ruin was not created out of Preservation’s power, though it was of Preservation. Rather, Preservation sacrificed his consciousness—one could say his mind—to fabricate that prison. He left a shadow of himself, but Ruin, once escaped, began to suffocate and isolate this small remnant vestige of his rival. I wonder if Ruin ever thought it strange that Preservation had cut himself off from his own power, relinquishing it and leaving it in the world, to be gathered and used by men. In Preservation’s gambit, I see nobility, cleverness, and desperation. He knew that he could not defeat Ruin. He had given too much of himself and, beyond that, he was the embodiment of stasis and stability. He could not destroy, not even to protect. It was against his nature. Hence the prison. Mankind, however, had been created by both Ruin and Preservation—with a hint of Preservation’s own soul to give them sentience and honor. In order for the world to survive, Preservation knew he had to depend upon his creations. To give them his trust. I wonder what he thought when those creations repeatedly failed him. QUESTION (PARAPHRASED) So what happens when Shards die? BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED) Well, it depends on how long the Shardholders have held the Shard. After they dies, the Shard is often able to continue acting, a kind of "Cognitive shadow". For example, the mists were able to continue doing what Preservation wished in helping out Vin and snapping people. With the Stormfather, he is that Cognitive shadow, and he's semi sentient. It's that power, but no one is actually holding it. We also see this on Threnody. TAGS shards, cognitive shadows, stormfather

Probably the amount of investiture split off of the Shard.

I don't think this is quite true. Based on what we've seen I think that Shards reside mainly in the spiritual realm, and that AonDor is an exeption. The mistwraith was also not a shards presence in the cognitive realm, but rather the Congnitive shadow of Leras. He had already died by secret history and he says so many times. Relevant WoB below. INTERVIEW: Oct 12th, 2015 Shadows of Self-Oak Brook, IL ARGENT Can somebody travel to the Spiritual Realm, the same as the Cognitive? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes, but it's a very different experience. It is possible… You may have seen people do it... ARGENT As in you're not sure, or you're being obnoxiously vague? BRANDON SANDERSON No... QUESTION As in, you probably have but he's having trouble remembering it. BRANDON SANDERSON No no no... For instance, Elend burning atium and duralumin pulled most of him into the Spiritual Realm. ARGENT Oh, that's what happens there. BRANDON SANDERSON Yeah. He kind of got yanked into- You also have seen people ascend with the powers and dip into the Spiritual Realm for a little bit. ARGENT So, Vin? BRANDON SANDERSON Yeah. But they could be on both, or either, or both at the same time. But you have seen Vin stick into the Spiritual Realm. And it happened to Sazed/Harmony... QUESTION Oh! So is that where the gods live? Kinda? BRANDON SANDERSON Most of the bulk of the Shard's energy of being is contained in the Spiritual Realm, yes. [edited for clarity- Original was: Most of the bulk of what the Shard's energy of being is contained on the Spiritual Realm] Except for one notable exception! QUESTION The mistwraith? BRANDON SANDERSON No. TAGS spiritual realm, Vin, Elend, shards, INTERVIEW: Sep 22nd, 2012 Orem Signing Report - Zas (Verbatim) ZAS So what's up with the regeneration issue? BRANDON SANDERSON [looks confused] ZAS With Shards? Because they only have so much power they can access at a certain time, but yet they still have more energy. So how does that work? Is it just they have so much power they can use at any given time? BRANDON SANDERSON [still slightly confused] What are you talking about? Like which shards? ZAS Ruin and Preservation. Since we know the most about them. BRANDON SANDERSON Ruin and Preservation were a specific instance, because almost all their energy was thrown into resisting each other. Keep that in mind. Even after Preservation was only a shadow, basically all of it was "Let's keep Ruin from destroying the world". So they were polar opposites. Set in balance. But slightly unbalanced in a couple of ways, that eventually, that slight imbalance [led to the Mistborn Trilogy]. They are a special case, because of that. ZAS So then why are they hesitant to directly fuel Allomancy? BRANDON SANDERSON Why are they hesitant to? What do you mean by directly fuel Allomancy? ZAS You mention in the Hero of Ages Q&A that they can directly fuel Allomancy, like Vin does with Elend, but it requires expending their energy in a way they are hesitant to do. BRANDON SANDERSON Because it imbalances them more. Does that make sense? So if you are putting your energy here, rather than fighting the other force, that gives them an edge somewhere else, while trying to gain an edge here. And you have to make sure that's really worth it. Like a chess game. Is it worth sacrificing my pawn here to expose myself over here. ZAS That makes sense. TAGS shards, ruin, preservation, allomancy, hero of ages, vin, elend,

Paalm being affected by Autonomy is not a WoB supported fact, as you implied in your post. The dictionary definition of any of the Shards us only of minimal importance. The most important thing when it come to a shards intent is how it is filtered by the Vessel. Yes, the description in the dictionary is literal and factual, the filtered shards intent is not. We will have to see how Bavadin does this before we can begin to draw facts from his actions.

Ati sadly taking up Ruin, knowing it will likely destroy himy. Adonalsium

In the tenth anniversary Elantis Ars Arcanum it even implies that Initiation on Sel is not a specific Shard's decision, like on Nalthis

What made Taravangian special is his willingness to trust himself and to do anything that was up on those walls. That, coupled with the means to do so.

Syl and Pattern have a strange spren like arguement. Jasnah

Agreed.

I remember it being specific. I can't find it right now, but it was very specific about that point.

I don't think this is exactly how it works. I tink that while Savantism is different from the soul expansion, the latter still has consequences. Relevant WoB below. QUESTION In Elantris it talks about how to wood and stone in the city is rotten and crumbling. Why does this happen? BRANDON SANDERSON This is because when objects become Invested for long periods of time their spirit web changes to accommodate the investiture. When the investiture was pulled up of the stuff in Elantris its spirit web was severely damaged so it showed that in the physical realm. This happened with the Lord Ruler when the Bands of Mourning were ripped out of him. TAGS investiture, spirit web, The Lord Ruler, bands of mourning

There are several things that make Taravangian's day of brilliance seem very out of place in the context of his boon and curse. Unlike other days, he wasn't able to remember anything about this day. While his power works on a distribution grid, there is one obvious outlier. The diagram seems to just be creating as much chaos as possible, and we haven't really seen any end goal from it. It just seems devised to make Travangian think he is doing the greater good when he is really just helping Odium by making Roshar unstable before his desolation IMO. I think it is more likely to be Cultivations influance, but it is very sketchy over all.

The Seon and the Skaze didn't exist before the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, so I suspect that that is what caused them to manifest.

You can hold the power to rule and still be autonomous. Thats actually the exact situation that Autonomy the Shard is in.

I think that they don't seem like polar opposites, but there are opposing traits to those you mentioned. I just feel like you can be autonomous and still have dominion/devotion over or to something and still be autonomous. This really rests on how Bavadin's interpreted his shard, which I am very curious to see. But because of the events of White Sand I think we have reason to believe that he has enter pretend it strangely. As you said, wierd things seem to be going on with him.