The One Who Connects

The Rider of Storms(Listener name for the Stormfather) predates the Shards arrival. He may even be as old as Roshar itself if Adonalsium consciously created the Parshendi when he made Roshar(allowing Spren to come into existence because of thinking life). He is "as old as the Highstorms" according the the Coppermind. When Honor arrived, he co-opted things. Stormlight, Highstorms, the Stormfather himself, etc.. Surgebinding is the only thing that we know came after Honor arrived. Also, no. The Stormfather merged with the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast when Honor died. He's not a splinter at all, IIRC.

I think this is why people are.. apprehensive/dislike it. People don't really like associating red with weddings anymore. As for the people saying it should be white instead, they are just traditionalist and don't get the alien vibe from Roshar(at least, not in the chapter and a half that they've read up to that scene) Not all of us are active on here/reread the books in preparation for a sequel.

This is incorrect. Thunderclasts are animated Stone, not reanimated corpses, making them far closer to Awakening than anything else.

Those circumstances are part of why Odium didn't want to get tied down on a planet long enough that he would start investing there. He would have to waste time manually reclaiming that Investiture before he could leave(Pool disappears) or rip himself away from that power(Pool stays). Option 2 weakens him because it separates him from his power, not to mention being quite a painful experience.

Fair enough. Don't look too far into what I wrote there. It was meant to be a general thing for why patience runs thin at times, rather than for anything specific. Less than a quarter of the capacity actually. Atium can steal all 38 known powers(17 Allomantic, 17 Feruchemical, and 4 human attributes). Pewter stealing 8 is a paltry sum. Additionally, I thought my drawing helped illustrate the idea quite well, even if Pewter was added as an afterthought. If Pewter Spikes have a certain "gateway" shape limiting what powers can fit inside it, then it stands to reason that those powers have a similar shape to them. What those powers have in common is that they are all Feruchemical Physical Powers, so the logical assumption is that there is a base "shape" to F-Physical Powers. The fact that there are 8 instead of 4 has nothing to do with Hemalurgy at all. Feruchemy is the magic system with 2 Physical Quadrants, so the discrepancy lies within how Feruchemy came to be. Hemalurgy picked a "gateway shape" for each metal to have, and Feruchemy happened to use one of those shapes more than the others. I'll also want a canon answer, but the question that needs answering has to do with why Feruchemy has 2 Physical Quadrants, not why Pewter can steal from both of them. It doesn't. I only brought it up because I thought it could be relevant to the discussion. Your statement was the best segue for me to use. If Forms was the Focus for the Dor, I'd consider Aons to be one 'type' of that Focus. If Forms are the focus for AonDor, I'd consider Aon Reo as one 'type' of that focus. There's levels to this thing that don't exactly mesh perfectly with the Scadrian example. I took a break from logging on. I think I lurked around.. twice in the whole of August, found nothing of note to respond to, and left. Odds are, this entire thread popped up between those 2 visits. I believe this one follows the same logic of why less spikes warp you less. Reused spikes have less power in them, so you are being warped by less foreign Investiture. Less warped, more human. It's the HoA Chapter Epigraphs actually. More of Sazed's speculations. You can give breath to a non-Nalthian and they can Awaken, so I'd be hesitant to say that only the commands given by people from Nalthis are special. I understand the point of your question, but.. we lack specifics. By technicality, it kinda is since one metal may steal multiple different powers, but I see your point. Not much else to argue in your post, beyond a couple more minor technicalities. Greatshells cannot reach the top of their evolutionary before Spren came to be, due to them bonding with Spren. Possibly the same with the Parshendi. Actually, given that we know Adonalsium specifically "grew" Roshar, and that Parshendi pre-date the Shards arrival, could we assume that Adonalsium created the Parshendi race, spren bonding and all, during the creation of Roshar? This would jumpstart the origin of the Rider of Storms to the beginning so he can direct the Highstorms, and allow Spren in general to flourish while Greatshells evolve to their monstrous size. This last one is a little less certain, but we know humans existed on Roshar before the Shards arrived. The "Stormfather" could also exist before Honor co-opted him and the Highstorms. Probably didn't, but it's technically possible. As for you being a "big name," sure why not? You are involved in a fair number of debates, people know your name, etc.. You've got a low post count, but you also seem to only post essays, so it qualifies. However, unless he is referring to "several God Metals", he essentially confirmed that some of the base 16 can steal off-world powers. We've been speculating that it would have to be Atium because of it's "steal anything" quality. So either way, we got a pretty useful revelation.

The word I should have used was "secondary effect" rather than side effect. You action(like placing a Soulstamp on someone) changes the Spiritweb. The primary effect of doing the Forging is altering the Spiritweb. Then that changes their physical aspect among other things. So yes, the PR transformation is the "primary effect" of altering someone's Spiritweb, but it is still a secondary effect of your action(Forging/Soulstamp). I suppose that if you cut out the Soulstamp and interfaced with the Spiritweb directly, then that would count. I guess I took too much stock in the "Forging" comment and not enough in the "someone in the SR could find the spiritweb and change it."

R&P may not be destroyed, but I wouldn't consider Ruin or Preservation to have survived Era 1, as neither exist when Era 1 ends, having been replaced by Harmony. So when Brandon says "Odium will survive to see SA 6," I consider it to mean the Shard Odium: whole, unmerged, etc.. at the end of the Front Five.

If you recall, this is exactly what happened. Ah, so this probably is where the "have to steal from the heart" idea originated from. Thank you for this. As for the actual point of your post, that makes a good bit of sense. I just felt like if you already have to have the right type of metal and the right mindset of what power you need to steal, then adding 2 more layers: where to spike out a power, and where to spike in that power(while having the two not necessarily be the same spot) just felt like complexity for the sake of complexity. And having a universal stealing point (the heart) added to that feeling, as those multiple points to take the various powers are pointless if you can just bypass them all in the same way. I'm a fan of things having a definable purpose, and Brandon doesn't seem the type to add complexity for complexities sake. So if an explanation of one of Brandon's systems gives me that feeling, then I think that explanation has something wrong with it. Just so you understand where I was coming from.

As Herald of the Dustbringers, this makes sense. Never noticed this before

Brandon has answered this one before. It's a "guilty by association" type of deal. The Spren are trying to bring the KR back, so once they get one, you are statistically more likely to be able to become one. On your own, you would have to exemplify the oaths to attract the Spren, but other Spren flock to look around an existing KR at other people without them fully expressing the oaths. They are paying attention to you from an earlier point than you would normally get their attention on your own, so it jumpstarts the process Also, being associated with a KR usually means that you fit that lifestyle (see how Dalinar raised his Sons), honorable people like to associate with other honorable people, you know. It's the same reason why Squires had good odds of becoming KR. The Spren were already paying attention to them because of the presence of the KR, so they can initiate a bond with an imperfect host that wouldn't otherwise get a bond, and help them along the way Syl and Wyndle do with Kaladin and Lift.

Blunt was the more polite term, even if Pedant appears to be more accurate now. And yes, I believe that I am using that word correctly: a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning. I realized it quite quickly when I was on the other side of the argument with you. In case it's slipped your mind, the discussion was about the canonocity of the MAG and Hemalurgic Gold Spikes.

This was an interesting read. And now I'm gonna make a few of you unhappy/confused/etc... while also responding to 5 pages of discussion(and to think I didn't like writing essays in English Class...) Lets talk about the Focus on Sel(that was consciously dismissed back on page 1): Forms. It is a shape that directs the incoming power, telling the raw investiture what it manifests as. AonDor: Aon Ehe - Fire, Aha - Air, Ashe - Light, etc... Dakhor: The Bone Shapes determine what power can be accessed.[5] Same follows for Forgery and ChayShan. The important thing to take from this has nothing to do with Sel, and everything to do with Scadrial. While Scadrial's focus is Metal, it is also Forms. The molecular structures of the metals determines what metal you have, so to quote what I just said about Sel: the molecular structure is the "shape that directs the incoming power, telling the raw investiture what it manifests as." Pewter: physical strength Cadmium: slowed time The same holds for Feruchemy, but it's also in reverse. You convert Investiture into strength when drawing from a Pewtermind because the power leaves the Metalmind in a certain "shape" that Investiture recognizes as Strength. When you store, it's the reverse: converting Strength into Investiture bearing that "shape" in order to get through the molecular "gateway" of a Pewtermind. Read my diagram, then come back to me with your thoughts. Hemalurgy is a little more.. difficult to explain in this way, given the "same metal, multiple powers" thing, but I'll try my best. Consider that the powers themselves have a "shape" to them. Brandon has said that the Metallic Arts Tables are in-world constructs, but Brandon has also said that Metals steal from specific Quadrants. This leads me to believe the tables are accurate in their groupings. The molecular "gateway" for Hemalurgy could be wider than the actual power "shapes." Fair warning, this explanation is gonna feature a bootleg drawing to point at. Make sense? To continue, I cannot make the Forms connection to Nalthis or Roshar as of yet. Commands are.. tricky business, and the 9th & 10th Heightenings don't help. Height 9 gives you the ability to awaken anything within the sound of your voice, making one think that perhaps it's the waveforms of your voice, in the same vein that the Alethi Women's Script is those waveforms on paper. However.. the 10th Heightening is mental command, taking the voice out of the equation entirely. While the Command is the Focus, the big deal is actually the Mental Visualization you have, getting imprinted into the breath so the awakened object knows what to do. Without that mental picture, your command is merely words, as Vivienna learns with the rope. And Roshar... let's not. Bonds are even more nebulous than Commands, Spren could work on the same level as molecular patterns in Metals, but only in the CR. And the other contenders are bad. Makes me wonder if the similarity between Sel and Scadrial is special circumstances regarding how Scadrial came to be rather than an underlying principle. Oh no? From Pagerunner's List, entry 585 Brandon certainly seems to be implying that Spren in Fabrial Gems isn't much different from Spren being in Chasmfiend Gemhearts, aside from one of them happening naturally. Do you consider the symbiosis between Spren and Greatshells as a "bond?" I disagree, almost completely(which surprises me more than it probably should..) From my perspective: Intent and Metal alone is insufficient. You have the Intent to create a Spike, and a Spike of a specific Metal, but you've got a 1 in 4 on getting the right power from a Mistborn. If you need to have the Intent to take a specific power, then what purpose do the Bind Points actually serve? If everything is decided before putting the spike into its recipient, then the extra "decision" that Bind Points are feels... extra. Additionally, consider that the Steel Inquisitorius was experimenting with Atium Spikes. They didn't know what powers it stole, so they can't really have a preset Intent the first time they tried it. If you need the Intent to take a specific Power in order for the Spiking to work, then those experiments could not have succeeded in the first place. If they knew you needed the specific Intent to take a specific power, then I feel like the experimentation might not have started due to expenses(unless you can reuse a failed spike, which seems reasonable. The risk of death via failed spike could be an issue, but "experimenting with Hemalurgy" implies that you don't care about the risks) I guess a sum up my thoughts statement would be that I have always been of the mind that a Steel Spike steals the "Allomantic Physical Powers" Segment of the Spiritweb as a whole. ie: it steals all 4 powers at once if you have them. That way, knowing where to place the Spike to get a specific power becomes more literal. I(and Djarskublar) placed this question in the Ultimate List to rectify the issue once and for all: You should understand that several of us have discussed topics long enough/enough times to feel a bit frustrated when things make sense to us and not the other party. Providing the same evidence over and over starts to bleed together, and we assume people know things that they don't/assume we've explained something that we really haven't. We get a little.. blunt, from time to time. It's always frustration, never meant to be confrontational (except for that one thread, but we don't talk about that anymore). Just understand that most of the "big names" on here became big for being right/knowing what we're talking about, and that leads to overconfidence which rears its head from time to time. From my experience, what you consider confrontational is fairly mild, and in Oversleep's case, it's his normal level of discussion and disagreement, because directness is a virtue(or somesuch). Basically, if you are seeing it as being confrontational/as an attack/anything beyond polite discussion.., then you are doing it wrong. This goes for the both of you, and anyone else on these forums. This one is pretty easy. Despite coming first, Honorblades are actually a hack for Surgebinding. Hacks allow people to bypass all manner of restrictions(identity, connection, viable spiritweb power(Medallions), etc..) so why not this restriction too? Beyond that, we know that Honorblades have some type of bond with the Heralds, since their very presence is tied to the Herald being alive. Additionally, Szeth was able to summon and dismiss his Honorblade, implying some form of Bond to it in the same vein as conventional Shardblades. Regarding the Fabrials of Old, I will echo Calderis in saying that we don't know enough about them. Keep in mind that they may be the Honorblades of Fabrial-Tech, a hack that came before the system proper. Additionally, we know that Soulcasting KR like Jasnah are limited by the type of gem while Kaladin isn't. The gem specificity has been another big deal: With Spren, Jasnah. Without Spren, Soulcaster Fabrial. The gem type limit exists for both of them, and throws another wrench into the proceedings(I don't even think I was on these forums back when the "gem - Fabrial focus" theory was a thing..) I might still write up the theory out of boredom one day though, unless Calderis digs up that Rusting WoB that could shoot it down with just the words "The focus depends on the planet, not the Shard" You aren't finding it. We know, we've tried. You even participated in one of those threads Calderis. And per Confused: If someone knew where it was, we would have said so. It's one of the primary reasons I never actually responded to his post that I just quoted. Au Contraire Monsieur: Nothing of any real note in that entry. Nightblood is mundane Steel as far as I'm aware, so using it as a spike isn't any different than a normal Steel Spike. It does give you an idea of just how much power can be stored in a Metalmind of that size, which is a scary thought. Shardblades are technically God-Metals, so they follow their own set of rules with regards to interacting with Magic Systems. At the very least, they fall in the gray area of "It's a God Metal, so we don't know." Remember that hiding from Harmony is an inherent property of Trellium, rather than a stolen power the spike grants. Additionally, understand that we don't know if the "steal any power" is unique to Atium or not. Atium = steal any attribute. Atium = God Metal. As far as I'm aware, we don't know yet whether (God metal = steal any attribute) or if (God Metal =/= steal any) Have the other related WoB on the subject: No connection needed. Metal from any planet works, including Soulcast metals. Metal is metal is metal. I don't know where the "steal powers from the heart" came from anyway, the Coppermind states that the spike is stuck through a bind point in order to charge it. Also, you appear to be forgetting that death is not always necessary for Hemalurgic Spiking. Taken together, I think you can spike someone through something other than the heart to steal powers. For the second part, where do you draw the line for a "single type of focus" in a magic system? Because I'd like to mention that magic on Sel is all one system, with a singular Focus. Precedent for vast variety of powers exists. How about I confuse you on purpose, while also educating you on the devilry that is the Spiritual Realm and connection(lowercase) It's not a required read, but there's an understanding to be gained by considering things from the SR looking out, rather than the other way around. Tying this to the Chasmfiend WoB near the top of my post, would this not be a Symbiotic Bond with the Spren? Just to add, humans existed before the Shards arrived too. As did Stormlight in Gemstones(although that WoB might have specified pre-Heralds..) Gotta say, this post is a fair bit shorter than I expected it to be. Have fun

I guess this was just me assuming that one could still do it themselves. Shrapnel is a mixed bag, so I felt it was possible that motor functions could be preserved if the shrapnel spreads differently(or further, letting that area get healed after the shrapnel goes through it) I did say I wasn't an expert on brain damage. Your thoughts? If I'm totally wrong, then I'm wrong. But if I'm right about this, then Aluminum Shrapnel isn't a guarantee either, even if it's the best option we've come up with so far.

He could also bring her up in conversation if somebody (I'd say Kaladin, but Shallan might have better odds of getting him to open up) asks him about his past. That way he can say something vague without inner monologue spoilers for the audience, as well as not needing to devote another interlude to Zahel if Brandon doesn't want to.

He lives. That said, he might not live through SA 10, but that's a moderate number of years later in the timeline

I vote no, Recreance should be at least... 700 years earlier. As @Calderis mentioned: Have several disparate reconstructions that I've done, and I'll mesh them together at the end Why I think the Recreance happened 2,200-2,500 Rosharan yrs ago: Recreance is minimum 700+ years ago, considered "ancient history" by Brandon, but also "more recent than late." Personally, that makes it sound like ... 2,000-2,500ish? Opinions, comments, concerns? Odium's travels and when Elantris took place: My more complete timeline, separated by the different "years" We have WoBs talking about the time-gap between different series(that have a different year length), so I am forced to assume that Brandon uses the Cosmere Standard year(1 Earth/Yolen year, also the After Shattering Number). The current time is ~11,000 AS, and 300 AH. (Should also be between 1,400 and 1,700 AE) The Rosharan year is 1.1 Earth Years, so if the Recreance took place 2,200-2,500 Rosharan years ago, that translates to 2,420-2,750 AS years ago. If we assume that the given time-gaps between Elantris, HoA, and SA are in Cosmere Standard years, then Elantris takes place 1,400-1,700 AS years ago. The Recreance occurred b/w 8,250 and 8,580 AS. Elantris occurred b/w 9,300-9,600 AS, with the Reod occurring exactly 10 years later Following this logic, the Recreance roughly occurred between 1030 and 1060 years before the Reod. Lasting 1,024 years, The Final Empire could have both risen and fell within that time-gap. The Recreance and the Reod did not occur even remotely close to the same time.

From memory, Dragonsteel is supposed to be set on Yolen before Adonalsium was shattered. We'd get to see the 16 Vessels back when they were normal people, maybe even see the Shattering itself. So.. way before. If you were asking in regards to when he is gonna write Dragonsteel, it's gonna be a ways after SA. Keep in mind that we could get a Vasher Pov. It's a tad unlikely, but he could do it, with a passing thought from Vasher about Vivienna. Nothing too much, because that'd spoil some of Nightblood(Book). Just something to keep in mind. The powers don't change as time goes on. They will be the same as they are now, the same as they were in TFE era. Kelsier could've done the same steel bubble trick that Wax does if he practiced it, so the power isn't somehow different in Era 2. The main "change" will be how many we know, and new/creative ways to use them. Have a thread where this was discussed(and thoroughly confused at points)

Depends on who you ask. For example: @Lord Maelstrom considers Voidbringers to be exclusively Parshendi forms from bonding Voidspren. I personally consider 'Voidbringer' to be a blanket term for creatures of the Desolation, largely because "Odium's Army" doesn't sound as cool. To me: Thunderclasts would be Voidbringers, Stormform Parshendi would also be Voidbringers, etc.. Kinda like how cats, dogs, and humans are different species, but they would all be considered as "Earthlings." So to actually answer your question, I have to agree with Maelstrom and say "Not yet" Are they synonymous? We don't know yet. Is there a distinction between the two? Not yet.

I'll still argue, albeit somewhat indirectly. Have our other example of extreme brain damage: cutting it in half. (I realize that the question may be referring to getting cut in half like Darth Maul, but 'down the middle' implies a vertical slice in my opinion) This is mostly for completionism at this point, but if you can heal through getting the brain sliced in half, I don't think shrapnel knocking you out will do the trick either. However, brain damage isn't exactly my area if expertise to talk about. Have a couple WoB's showing how it may not exactly be that simple if they have internal Metalminds. Internal Metalminds would take a little longer to melt, but once they do, they are gonna pool up in small pockets wherever they can(like most liquids). Through Gold healing, your body doesn't melt, preventing the molten gold from leaving your body. And since your body isn't melting, the gold remains quite pure, which per WoB 2: allows it to be accessed normally, and allows you to get the Investiture out of it. Per WoB 1: You can still use Molten Gold as a viable metal, and per WoB 2: it keeps the stored Investiture while melted down, so it's valid to compound with. It's even better actually, as with each pool of molten gold you burn to compound, you have less internal burning to heal, making that compounded health last longer. Per WoB 1: You can also fill molten gold, allowing you to store most of that compounded health to compound it again, gaining even more health, which buys you more time to escape your bindings. And you can, because it's remarkably hard to tie down a Gold Compounder. Any type of restraints must prevent all movement, or else you can wriggle out of them and heal the broken bones/severed hands/unnaturally bent limbs afterwards. They also have to be able to withstand the heat, so that they aren't useless. If it's a locked room, see if you can sabotage whatever equipment is producing the heat. Maybe escape through whatever ventilation system exists to disperse the heat after the executions... If you can't do either of those, then it comes down to whether or not you can withstand the heat for longer than they can run the heat. Remember that you don't have issues with overheating, while their equipment does.

Technicality: You aren't directly altering their Physical Aspect, you are changing their Spiritual Aspect and that is changing their physical aspect. Sure you achieve the effect that the question is asking while being fully in the SR, but I wouldn't count it as "interacting with a person in the PR." Your interactions are conducted entirely within the SR, and you are changing something that is also entirely in the SR. Altering the physical aspect of that person is almost a side effect of changing the Spiritweb.

I don't like the idea that non-combined Shards could have a combined Shardpool. Odium killed Aona and Skai, meaning that both vessels were alive when he showed up. Had they merged into Unity/Benevolence/etc.., there should only be one Holder, meaning only one of them for Odium to kill. Additionally, they have distinct splinters: Seons and Skaze. I feel that if they combined enough to have a merged pool, they should have a merged type of Splinter. You could still be right, but it doesn't feel right. Either way, Elantris 2 is supposed to be in Fjordell and delve into the Dakhor, so we may learn the truth there.

Has it only been Wyndle? I could've sworn she'd done both methods at one point...

I believe that Miles was healing his dying brain cells from a lack of oxygen at one point. This would essentially rule out downing for a very long time. I doubt you could actually store enough to survive an atom bomb, so don't take this the wrong way. However, if we go on a theoretical level.. Assuming your body heals fast enough to not actually vaporize, would Metalminds entirely inside your body be protected from the vaporization effect? I'm going in the same vein as "x-rays not piercing a lead-lined case." Assuming unlimited healing, would your body actually be a strong enough barrier to protect internal Metalminds? If your body can act as a barrier like that, you could potentially survive in lava/acids/all kinds of things that would otherwise melt your Metalminds by having them be internal, making it much harder to kill a Gold-Gold Twinborn. I'm gonna argue your specific example. We know that gold compounders can survive beheading, so what is stopping say.. Miles from ripping off his own head and regrowing one that is shrapnel free? Granted, you could just fire into his chest so that he can't rip it off like that, but I'm genuinely curious about why we think headshots would work.

Elend/Vin could see the Mist spirit with their own eyes. That means that it existed within the Physical Realm in some capacity. Kelsier forced his hand from the Cognitive Realm, so Preservation was existing in the Cognitive at the time as well. Outside of literal magic(a la The Well), it stands to reason that one needs to exist within the PR/CR to physically affect them in a meaningful way.

You had to have had the plus signs between some words. Pick the variation you want to search.