The One Who Connects

I always imagined Bondsmiths as the one in Urithiru, a Battle Strategist, and a Frontline General. They all lead, but in different areas. Why not expand that to all of the Orders? If Windrunners fight to protect, then they could "lead" their respective military forces into battle, even if a Bondsmith was ultimately in charge. They also had the most Squires of any order, so that's a large group to "lead." Maybe that Leading attribute is part of why they have so many squires.... Skybreakers are in charge of discipline and order, the MP's so to speak. Elsecallers are in charge of all things Shadesmar, Lightweavers might be in charge of Soulcasting, Elsecallers run the medical tents, etc... I remember that one too. Unfortunately, it used the (now confirmed) Voidbinding Chart as it's evidence, citing how the Truthwatcher/Bondsmith glyphs were both on the gemstone and not connected to anything else. I don't actually know about the state of any speculation because of that. It's still a good read. Oh, that's why it's so hard to find. Gosh that title... I figured that Truthwatcher Vision would be quite useful to winning a Desolation. Even if they were forbidden from directly speaking of what they saw, I refuse to believe that none of them would go to the Command Tent to provide some manner of tactical assistance.

His fear is legitimate. Unless you think Yesteel is the cause of all the missing Shardblades from Dalinar's vision, then all logic falls apart for Nightblood being a former Shardblade.

Unlikely Speculation: We have information that they don't have. What if that makes our perspective wrong this time? Think about what could be known about Taln to earn him that title. Per Kalak, Taln had a habit of choosing impossible fights and winning, often dying in the process. Dying in battle is painful already, but add to that all the pain and injuries he would have to fight through to ensure that he wins the impossible fight. The Stonewards were noted for exemplifying their Patron Herald's resolve, stubbornness and strength. Taln is a giant and built like a literal brick wall. I've always pictured Taln walking across the battlefield like a literal god amongst men, standing up to anything the enemy can dish out and returning the pain in quick succession. We know that KR and normal mortals fought in the Desolations too, probably with the Heralds leading the charge. I could easily see him getting a reputation for enduring great pains and injuries and carrying on anyway. Something like that is the type of thing to become legend.

Thank you for this. I've had to use a WoB where the question implies that it's Soulcasting only as my source on the Coppermind article for Aluminum. Do you remember what chapter this scene was from?

This one seems pretty simple to me. Shallan's revelation that they were symmetrical is vastly important in retrospect with Kasbal's cymatics lesson. Dawncities and all that.. (Brandon signed someone's book with "powerful magic unleashed here" and an arrow pointing to the Shattered Plains) We know something happened, and that's enough justification for our avid researchers/Arcanum writers.

Potentially* true. You are making an assumption without enough evidence. Is the law in place because of a criminal, or is the man a criminal because of the law? Clarified analogy via Oathbringer spoilers Remember that people defy societal norms all the time. Further reading here.

I was under the impression that we did. Hrmm.. I'll check around in a bit

Most of us can't remember the difference between Unkeyed and Unsealed either. It's not that shocking. As for facetious, I didn't know exactly what it meant, but I did associate it as a form of sarcasm. "Sarcasm that was meant to be rude" or somesuch.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I'll go with saying yes. We see four Herald faces in each chapter heading, but I'm counting them in their pairs, so it's two numbers per chapter. First Chapter is all Jezrien, and he has 11. So I would say that it appears that he is doing it correctly. I will say that the combined chapters aren't neat pairs, per se. Epilogue of Book 2 is a pair of Battars and a pair of Hoids, but they are split with one of each on each side of the chapter number. No idea if that would be significant or not, but it's worth noting how they are arranged for those.

I agree. No idea which Fundamental Truth has the power to undermine their entire existence, but it pretty much has to be one. There are two other important things that this secret has to be. It must be discoverable, and in addition to that, it has to be provable. The Early KR learned this terrible truth without cheating(Taravangian). Failing this point is everything that prevents me from backing most of the theories. Claim "end of the world" here on Earth and see who cares. If Mr. T can't prove it, then his secret means nothing. He certainly believes that he can, and I don't see how he would be able to prove 7/8th of the Oathpact/Braize/etc.. theories we have on here.

Given that Taravangian referred to it as "The Secret," I believe it to be only one thing. It is nigh impossible to use "secret(plural)" correctly in a sentence. It is vastly easier to just say "secrets" and continue writing. If "the secret" was something that went against the oaths, then it cannot be something along the lines of "ends don't justify the means." We know that only 1 Order kept their oaths, and we know that at least 2 Orders have no issue with justifying the means with the ends. We know that both Skybreakers and Elsecallers would accept a Machiavellian. The two orders are direct opposites on the Surgebinding Chart(adjacent to Windrunner/Lightweavers, and we know how "opposite" those are). An explanation for how one would interpret it may not suffice for the other order. However, we have a starting point for each of them: Jasnah and Nalan. Jasnah: The Alley scene. Justifying her use of force against the muggers has been an argument on here for quite a while. What's your take on it? Nalan: The Law Consider just how much of society can be justified with the phrases "it's the law," "it's illegal," or "they broke the law." Consider how creative the wording of laws/contracts need to be in order to avoid loopholes or wriggling out of it. The First Oath is too simple and open to interpretation to define an overall limit. The Interpretation from Teft is how Kaladin sees the Oaths, and as such are how Kaladin is bound by them... Oh.. That just makes the whole issue worse. Gonna want your opinion on this too @Calderis. You were trying to justify a Bondsmith, but I realized that your interpretation is compatible with a Windrunner too(Unless Oath(s) 4/5 shake things up) Calderis's sample interpretation of the First Oath: Line 1: Ensuring that people survive is the very emphasis of protecting. It's the entire job purpose of a bodyguard here on Earth(Kaladin and the King's Guard). The military fights to protect those who can't protect themselves(the civilians back home), protecting them to ensure that someone will live, no matter the cost to themselves. Line 2: Even if it is somebody you've never met, even if it is somebody you hate, you have to be strong enough to protect them, to ensure that somebody survives. And "regardless of what is required" meshes quite well with "so long as it is right." It doesn't matter who or what you are required to protect, so long as it is the right thing to do. Line 3 is just a combination of the First 2. "We must not balk at a step on the path(3)" & "No matter the cost(1)" "The Goal can only be reached by pressing on(3)" & "Act, the alternative is failure(2)" Need I say more? Calderis presented an interpretation of the First Oath that is not limited by "end doesn't justify the means," and I've meshed that interpretation with the Windrunner Oaths. I'm starting to see what Brandon might've meant with "two Windrunners can disagree if an oath has been fulfilled." I'm also realizing that if my interpretation is valid, then it is almost impossible for the Oaths to be the cause of the Recreance. I don't even think knowing for sure what Order didn't disband will help when you can have this level of differing interpretations in each Order.

Ignore the "million troops" line about TLR. IIRC, there is a million Skaa in Luthadel and it is well within TLR's power to conscript every last one of them if he wanted to. The Luthadel Garrison was only 20,000 troops. Luthadel has 1,000,000 Skaa. Luthadel's "military" was 2% of its total population. Does that sound unreasonable?

Just to make sure I'm reading you right (and so that I can respond to you correctly), are you saying the in-world frequency seems to high, or the odds of a Punnett Square seem too high? If it's the odds of the square itself, remember that the "odds" are just a percentage chance. I could have a 1 in 4 chance of blue-eyed children and a 3/4 for brown eyes, but the chance doesn't stack. I could have six blue-eyed kids in a row, because each of them has that chance. If it's the in-world frequency, then I'm not sure how to fix my model. I had considered making both traits normally have a Dominant and a Recessive Allele. Light Eyes: Ll Dark Eyes: Dd The permutations from that would be LD, Ld, lD, and ld. The dominant trait being dominant, that would give you Mixed, Light, Dark, and um.. Yea that's probably why I wasn't sure about trying that in the model. Not to mention what would happen with the ld later down the line. Maybe that's why real life doesn't have Mixed Dominance Traits.

Not that you need additional justification Galendo, but this one fails because Brandon has directly said that's not what happened. I swear this one needs to be pinned and bookmarked everywhere. I(and many others) have had to post this one so many times... Machiavelli disagrees. I interpreted that to be implying that Honor died quite soon after the Recreance. His lackluster skill at future-sight limits him to looking a short while ahead. If he died far enough before the term Recreance was applied, then he can't answer yes/no at all.

The Desolation that lasted 11 years was, in my opinion, written about as if it were not the norm. Even so, your idea would never reach "centuries." We know that there are only 6,000 years between the Shattering of Adonalsium and the Heralds abandoning the Oathpact.[2] Odium has to do several things before arriving on Roshar(Ambition, Sel). Humanity needs time to recover between Desolations. There's hardly enough spare years for one century-worth of Desolation, much less "all these centuries." I might accept some form of disconnect from reality(not like they'd really be keeping track of the years while being tortured in he||.) Not sure that could account for the large discrepancy between where I use centuries and when I use millennia, but that's how I use them. Brandon may have a different opinion on term usages.

This is inaccurate. Humans predate all three Shards. As for the rest, the only reason that I think the Heralds were born/hired after Odium arrived is because Kalak used the word "centuries" in the Prelude. That snippet always felt off. It seemed like too short of a time period. Even by my best estimates, the Desolations should've happened over the course of 3,150 years. I stop qualifying something as "centuries ago" after 1,700 years. 3,000 years is well into where I would start saying "millennia(plural) ago."

We don't know that for sure yet. All we know is that the Iriali people are not originally native and came from elsewhere. We do not have information in that vein regarding the rest of Humanity.It's likely that they do, but we don't have a concrete answer. Also, the correct term is "Rosharan." For future reference: Nalthian, Scadrian, Selish, Rosharan.

Have three of them. Draw your own Conclusions. Not that these are as relevant, Desolations did not happen before humans lived on Roshar. Ooh, here's a scary thought: Thunderclasts could exist outside of a Desolation.

I've got a top 3. I can't decide which would win, because they are all potential picks for different reasons. Skybreakers: Reputation: These guys were the Military Police of the KR. They have to have some sort of advantage that keeps others in line, and could bring down troublemakers. Mobility: Gravitation(flight, plain and simple) Surges: Lashings(self-explanatory). Division(breaking molecular bonds is quite a powerful skill) Dustbringers: Reputation: The normal people didn't see much difference between them and Voidbringers(why "Releasers" never caught on). Getting compared to Voidbringers implies a level of destructive power that we haven't seen thus far. Mobility: Slicking(you're never grabbing onto them). Anti-Slicking (Can't catch somebody that can free-climb sheer walls) Surges: Division(breaking molecular bonds). Abrasion(friction makes fire. Fire and molecular breakdown can be explosive). Stonewards: Reputation: The only one not on here for destructive potential. If these guys are anything like their Patron Herald, they could stand up to most anything the others could dish out. Surges: Cohesion(I feel like this is an anti-Division. "Making" molecular bonds. That's a big deal). Tension(altering object stiffness. Improvised weaponry/armor/barriers is a versatile ability, especially if you combine things via Cohesion) I eventually voted Dustbringer, based on potential destructive capability. Stonewards were a close second(we just don't know enough about them yet)

Say we have a Punnett Square for the actual eye color(like normal), and have an additional Punnett Square for Light/Dark... I'd have to run through the permutations to see if that would actually be a valid solution, but in the meantime: Would that seem more plausible to you?

Without having Word of Taln on what Ishar should have taught mankind, I cannot say. Actually, the Heraldic Teachings may be largely tied to the Heralds alone. Jezrien teaching men Leadership makes sense, but can you see Kaladin doing that? We know Nalan thought the Skybreakers claiming him as their Patron Herald was "a pursuit of vanity and annoyance." Maybe they chose to emulate the Lord of Laws on their own, rather than it being part of their actual jobs... I also have personal speculation on Bondsmiths. One stays at the Circle of Thrones in Urithiru, but what about the other two? I see one being in the command tent, like a military strategist, and the other leading the charge like a general. Dalinar's character arc could easily turn him into any of these. Urithiru: After unifying the world, he stays to keep it united like Killik mentioned. Strategist: Involved in the fight, but avoiding his Blackthorn days. Battlefield General: Dalinar is forced to go Full Blackthorn against the Desolation.

It's mostly the attribute difference between "guiding" and "leading" that Crucible pointed out, but there is something else. Jezrien is King of the Heralds, but he is also Herald of Kings. Taln mentioned that Jezrien would teach men leadership. Jezrien is in the leading role because it's literally part of his job. He leads, and teaches other to lead.

If you were tapping speed, you would be going faster. He was thinking that since you are going faster, you could store something else faster. At which point I have to agree with Oversleep. I don't think that's how the magic works

This one was literally the letters K through Z. We have 10 Heralds, and the first 10 letters of the Alphabet are A-J. If A=1, B=2, C=3, etc.. then K=11. Jezrien=1=A. Nalan=2=B, etc.. If each Herald Face represents one letter, we'd need a way to combine them for.. the rest of the alphabet. The "K-Z"

I like these. Not sure about Kevin McNally being Sadeas, since I mainly know him as Gibbs, who isn't exactly a similar character. Who knows though, he might make a good villain. Either way, I'd be fine with seeing him play a role in SA. I'm not sure, but they could work. Opinion's via anyone else? I'll second a few earlier posts. Courtesy of Toaster Retribution: Rysn - Rosabell Laurenti-Sellers Eshonai - Gwendoline Christie Lopen - Michael Peña Courtesy of Worldhopper: Nohadon - Liam Neeson Couple Suggestions of my own: Adolin - yea, this'll take a while. Lift - Bella Ramsey (I like her portrayal of Lyanna Mormont in GoT, and she's definitely young enough to fit as older Lift in the back 5) ^- Can't speak for Jace21's suggestion of Dafne Keen as I haven't seen Logan yet. ^--- For both, we'll have to wait and see how their acting improves as they age. I still like the idea of David Tennant as Hoid. He just has this energy to his performance, and he's pulled off a pretty good air of mischief before. I think he could pull off the emotion and intensity of Wit's "with tears in my eyes, but I'd do it" speech to Dalinar, which is almost necessary for the seal of approval. And now, the all-important question of who shall play Taravangian?