The One Who Connects

As was pointed out in another thread.. (yesterday?), have this:

I like this. It's not what we'd immediately expect, which, to me, would be a point in favor. Doesn't prevent a current good guy becoming the champion so nobody else has to, so one of the theories I currently like is still valid(if a little shakier). It would change "Almighty, release me" to refer to regretting the decision to bear that burden.

It's spelled "Jezrien," but the entry was that Ishar forced them into it.

It's because he was only a cognitive shadow, rather than a full person. Ruin says so himself during their discussion.

Metalminds have a point where they are "full." I would put that as a category of the object size rather than the Feruchemist storing in it.

That's not how Investiture works. A certain size object(Metalmind, Shardblade, etc...) can store a certain amount of Investiture. The person storing that Investiture is irrelevant. A weaker one would just fill the object slower, but still reach that same cap eventually. As for the "so little metal," you'd be surprised. Consider what size Nightblood would be if it were shaped like the Bands instead of a Sword. Not that different huh? And Nightblood is massively more Invested than the Bands were.

I suppose that would count, guess I overlooked that possibility since he's already gave them the Honorblades.

Never seen this one before. Makes me wonder if Brandon was actually implying anything in the other WoB about "does not mean that they don't have special powers of their own" or if that was just deflection. They fought and won at least one Desolation before Radiants even existed. That says far more than I ever could, even though I've tried.

The wait is not long.

I've tried to reconstruct the passage of events several times before as well. it's not nice when each planet uses a different year. These were the culmination of several disparate ones, and might have some things you are looking for.

This again Calderis?

On the battlefield, I don't think Orders would limit themselves by their Oath disagreements. A Skybreaker and a Windrunner come across a Thunderclast, they are gonna work together against it. Most likely a Stoneward/Windrunner Warpair has complementing Surges and fighting styles. Can't say for sure until we learn what Stonewards can do, but for now it seems reasonable. That said, if we do see lines and "factions" among the Orders back at HQ, it's probably related to their Oaths/mindsets being compatible.

Read the entirety of page 2.

This is what I agree with. I feel that the Dustbringers will be the ones that are more set apart, given their "reputation" that Skyline that you pointed out on page 1. We know that we will hear an earlier oath from another Windrunner at some point(to demonstrate that it's the sentiment more than the exact words), and we also know that some Orders had membership in the low thousands back in the old days(probably KR+Squires, but my point stands) If Brandon wanted one of each, he'd be remaking the Heralds instead of reforming the KR. I don't know about "main characters" specifically, but that also depends on your definition of main character. He could also double up in.. book 7 or so, since that wouldn't be "right after" Lift. Edgedancer Spoilers There shouldn't be. Navani has a niche in the story already. She is the Head Artifabrian, and serves as Brandon's easy way to roll out new Fabrial-Tech in the future. She doesn't need to be a Radiant to be important/involved in the major story. It shouldn't be about the Unmade because the traitor line is twelve paragraphs later. Taravangian changed the subject away from the Unmade in paragraph 15, and mentions the traitor in paragraph 27. I personally have never liked the "traitor line refers to the Heralds" theories, ever. I don't think it's about the Radiants(not entirely set against it though), but that's probably the logic people are using to link it to the Heralds. In the absence of those first two options, what else is really left?

The relevant word is neuter. Unsure how you missed it, since it contains the term "Parshendi." Have a follow-up via Botanica and Peter

While you may be right, we know that the secret did lead to 9 of the Orders disbanding. I just feel that whatever it was can't be related to the Oaths themselves, as there is enough variance in interpretation that anything would only affect about half of the Radiant population. Regardless of it was a direct result or not, 50% just isn't good enough. Members of the same Order can disagree on how an Oath is interpreted. A 50/50 split could easily be settled with a little theological debate(or just left to exist in the background, like the Windrunner/Skybreaker schism of eras past). Speaking of the schism, that's a perfect example: The difference between "Doing what is Just" and "Doing what is Right" is a huge disagreement that continues to this day in some parts of the Earth. If something like that didn't break them, then you'd need an even bigger theological debate stemming from the Oaths in order to do it, and I'm not sure anything can do that. It doesn't have to affect them equivalently, but it has to affect them. That's why "end justify the means" fell apart, because 2 of the Orders might come out of it unaffected, with some members of the other Orders not bothered by it either. Most of these ideas fall apart because the number of people who could potentially come out unaffected is too high, not because it doesn't fit the "9/10th" number perfectly. I'd have used Szeth, if not for his.. uncertain status. Actually... Nalan stated that Szeth exemplified what it was to be a Skybreaker. Despite his insanity, I am inclined to believe him on this one. Szeth is about as far from the Machiavellian Ideal of "end justifies the means" as it gets. All that mattered was that he kept to the rules that bound him. The means and the end were both irrelevant. The end was whatever end his current master was aiming for, and the means were just as flexible(Szeth was ordered to emulate what he did in Alethkar, rather than using stealthy means or somesuch other. I think he was even ordered to intimidate without killing at one point). This just goes to show that even among the Skybreakers(the Order most focused on rule of law) there could be dissenting opinions on things. Eh. I still feel that Jasnah tempting them into it makes the case less clear-cut. It hurts a case for malignant intent on the part of the thugs when Jasnah set out that night with the intent of cleaning the streets of their filth. Killing the first one was still self-defense though: he was mid-knife swing when she turned him into fire. She turned the second one into quartz because he tripped and she caught up with him. That one is up in the air because he hadn't really "ran away" yet, but turning the other two into smoke from a distance isn't. They hadn't actually done anything yet and were running away, but she killed them without a second thought anyway. As for her reasoning for the future, literally anyone else in the city could have gotten the inkling to steal/kill at some point in the past/future. They could have (forcibly) kept others who were thinking of following suit off the streets, they could have incited others to follow suit. With them dead, somebody worse could end up taking their place. Jasnah wants to believe that she saved more lives than she took, but she can't prove it. Calderis summed this up well enough already. It's the decision of the Spren, and we know that they can disagree on things too. 1) They have a massively broad set of general values for the organization. It's called the First Ideal. They didn't get the choice in it being forced onto all of them, and it's something can(and probably was) disagreed upon at times. Specific Orders have specialized rules that further define their actions. 2) You are making an assumption without enough evidence. We have examples of individuals who could have joined two different orders, we have an example of two different mindsets on the path for joining the same order. 3) I(with help from several others on here) could probably make any interpretation of the First Ideal valid for all 10 Orders, but that's because they are broad enough to not contradict the other Ideals. However, that broad interpretation is a detriment, as it ultimately doesn't limit one all that much. I don't think it's that easy to make rules that don't contradict any of the other Ideals, but are still specific enough to not be up for debate. Ok. Have a digression that is relevant to your theory: "In fact, I shall deny the very basis. Your assumption has been wrong since the beginning." -Gundam Tanaka It's 3-0 against the Spren doing something like that by accident/being framed for it. As Calderis said, the Spren were complicit in planning the Recreance. It's just not possible for the entire organization to keep that a secret while also explaining the plan to everybody. As such, if the Recreance occurred because of something the Spren did, then it has to be something that they can feel genuinely responsible for and feel that they deserve death for. That's a very harsh sentence for an accident, and something that I think both Skybreakers and Windrunners could agree would be too far. If the two of them can agree that something is wrong, then it's wrong. No if, and, or buts about it. Following on the heels of Point 1 is the very simple rebuttal of the framing argument: Proof. If you lack the evidence to prove guilt, then the defense walks. A Skybreaker ought to understand that. If they were framed, then the "evidence" is forged. Falsified evidence doesn't hold up under scrutiny, and if the Skybreaker do a pre-trial investigation, then the evidence not only has to be faked but also planted. The logistics of planting falsified evidence in a multi-Realm environment with the purpose of convicting the Spren is... difficult. If someone came forward with the evidence, then they would be under scrutiny too, with the burden of proof on them. When it comes to the law, neither Skybreakers nor Windrunners take kindly to falsehoods. I don't care whether you think the Spren did it or someone else framed them. The important question is how did they do it in the first place? Ruin, a full Shard, was very limited in what he could do and influence without controlling an Inquisitor. A certain character only got spiked because Ruin got a very lucky break with the situation. You expect me to believe that simple Spren could accidentally influence how events played out to a greater degree than Ruin could, and dozens, maybe hundreds of times at that? I don't buy it. Even if it was done on purpose, i still don't buy it. 1) Doubtful. Kaladin has a long list of people who could be somewhat responsible for that one. Eventually he has to let go of the past. It's in his Third Oath: "even those I hate." He nearly killed both Syl and himself with the last vendetta. I think he's smart enough to not embark on another one. 2) Pattern thinks that she will, so I want to say no purely because her stubborn streak would be determined to prove Pattern wrong. Actually, this one is a Definite No. Pattern was responsible for the family tragedy. Her mother attacked her because of the bond, calling her "one of them." If she's willing to forgive/forget that, then I'd say she moved past it. Her family tragedy isn't what broke her. The tragedy started with the death of her mother and friend, who only died because she tried to kill Shallan after she bonded Pattern. She was already broken, making this discussion moot. 3) Dalinar blamed himself for Gavilar's death, since he was in a drunken stupor when it happened. He also blames Szeth, since he carried it out. I believe that he took the blame off himself when he realized his presence wouldn't have helped against Szeth. Szeth had no Spren, so blaming Szeth doesn't lead to a Spren, and even if it did, that path will never lead to the Stormfather. If his brokenness is caused by something else, then we'll have to wait for Oathbringer Flashbacks. 4) Szeth is the only case that holds any water, since it seems like he saw a KR Spren/Voidspren and claimed they had returned. This is also where the boat sinks, as his banishment is entirely the fault of the small-minded fools that make up the Stone Shamanate. His subsequent he||ish life is the fault of his own honor.(Also a good spot for something to break him.. hrmm..) 5) Jasnah and Lift... 5a) Jasnah thinks from a cold and logic-oriented point of view, as showcased by the aftermath of the alley scene. She is probably the best chance for your theory, as she would be the one to weigh the options without regard to the emotional impact. 5b) Yea, this isn't happening. Wyndle was meant to bond with Ym, remember? If he engineered the events in order to bond, then he would have ended up with Ym(or the Iriali Matron he mentioned). He's not particularly pleased with his current arrangement, which doesn't mesh well with him planning it. Besides, from your own quote, the choice wasn't his. The Ring(via the Nightwatcher/Cultivation's Blessing) chose for him. He isn't directly responsible, and I highly doubt that Lift of all people would be willing to kill him even if he was. Especially by the time of the back 5, where she would have been bonded with him for upwards of 20 years. "The Heralds." I don't think this statement warrants any more than that. I would agree with that sentiment. However, I do not think anything presented thus far is sufficient. Now for arguments against the validity of your theory in the modern (Everstorm) Era. This Secret has to be enough for the KR to think abandoning their Oaths is the best(maybe even the only) choice. Taravangian certainly thinks it is. Your theory just isn't. From the Diagram, Taravangian knew the Desolation would come(Ancient of Stones passage) and he knew the secret to destroy the Radiants. He thinks that this secret is a big enough deal that they would sooner kill their Spren and let the Desolation continue unchecked than fight back against the forces of Odium. The secret has to be a very big deal, and your theory lacks the intensity to actually make this happen. Also, people come to like having power. You can do things as a Radiant that you only dreamed of. Honorable figures realize they can do so much more good for the world because they have power. You'd be surprised how many people would overlook a past transgression like the ones you describe to keep that power, to live out their dreams, to continue being a force for good, to keep their Spren companion alive. And with a full-blown Desolation right around the corner, even more people will want to keep their powers to protect. Hold a grudge about a death that's happened years ago and willingly let the rest of the world die, or forgive that death and protect everyone else? It's a pretty easy choice.

Well that was a mistype on my part. I'll fix that in a moment. Good eye But you've lost me here. What did I say to imply color changes? I figured Eto was the fancy modifiers for Aon Ien healing, hadn't considered that it could be medically oriented on its own. I like that. I figured bullet one was more the realm of Aon Omi, since it instills calm and removes negative emotions. The second one though... I don't know about this "removes waste" bit, but the rest kinda fits with how I've theorized the Surge of Cohesion works, so I like it.

Wait, Brandon actually said this? All this time I've been positing that as a theory based on how he ordered the back five characters in this one WoB... Depending on how things turn out, maybe the prologue of Taln's book could be his final battle of that Desolation, winning the impossible fight and dying in the process. It'd be the action-packed prologue for the back half, the way Szeth's is for the front five. Sadeas: Mostly interested in his interactions with Gavilar and Blackthorn Dalinar than anything else. Amaram: Eh. A smidge curious about Sons of Honor though, so.. Elhokar: Never really cared about him to be honest. Navani: I actually like Navani, but I'd be lying if i said I wasn't also interested in Fabrial-Tech anytime I said I wanted her to have more screentime.

I don't think he ever says it in the book. However, I know we have a couple WoBs on what he would say about it

I'd hazard a guess that reforming Honor would "convince" Odium that he's not in complete control yet. It's not enough to threaten him, but it might be just enough to make him uncertain. However, I fully see Brandon being able to pull off something completely different that catches both us and Odium by surprise.

Wait, this WoB is relevant again? It doesn't have an actual source to it, but it's the final entry in Pagerunner's Reddit WoB list (Entry 749)

That was something I had considered too. It feels like Tanavast is saying that they need to convince Odium that the risks of appointing a Champion are the lesser of two evils compared to ... literally any other option Odium has.

Another popular speculation is that the Stormfather was dying slowly(due to his immense strength), but was saved by Tanavast's cognitive shadow merging with him. It could also be that he didn't die because he wasn't in Bladeform like the others. Important Distinction: Shallan didn't actually "break" her bond like Kaladin did. Kaladin actually did something that was against his word, while Shallan just did nothing. Any of them could break their bond by accident if they did something that was against their Oaths. Kaladin did something against his Oaths, while Shallan did stuff that wasn't for/against her Oaths. There is a whole lot of things that Kaladin could do that have nothing to do with his Oaths, and if he had strayed into more mundane territory for a few years, his bond might have weakened too. This.

Have you read all of Mistborn Era 1? Specifically Hero of Ages? If you have, then I have an answer for you regarding how Champions work. (Mistborn Spoilers, duh..) How that type of thing will be translated into Stormlight Archives, I don't know.

We know that humanity added gems to them, which means that the KR didn't do that. Ergo, something that makes KR different from normal mortals is the key here. Perhaps a KR infused with Stormlight isn't affected by the weight. It makes Kaladin a lot faster and stronger than normal. Perhaps Infused Stormlight has some type of synergy with Shardplate. Dalinar's Plate looked like it glowed when he battle the Chasmfiend after all. Specifying "infused" would explain the change too. Stormlight Infused in a KR could power Plate, and Stormlight infused in Gemstones is the closest substitute.