Kasimir

Added an entirely new tab to the GM Signup spreadsheet that tracks now for non-pass non-Sanderson games. I think it's easier for everyone to have a clear visualisation of where we are for each category. I'll probably keep tinkering with it as we go ahead, but at least there's now an indicator for everyone.

Agreed, but I don't think that's always so, e.g. depending on how a player who intends to Intent Convert plays with the other Shards. I will be fairly honest I believe it's a knave's argument. And there's a case to be made that "just because you can doesn't mean you should" though I certainly gloried in the ability to actually threaten the Elims with conversion, given that most conversion games I am curled up in a fetal ball crying at the thought of being forced to convert out. I think that's another way of saying on two levels: just because the mechanic is there doesn't mean it should be used, and second, that I think a GM really needs to be mindful of why the mechanic is there and the potential impacts on the game. I'm not saying I don't think Ash didn't think it through, for the record. I am saying though that the edginess of that mechanic definitely showed up in this game because in all cases, compared to being converted against your will, Intent Conversion effectively requires you to say yes three times: Yes, Yes I'm Sure, Yes I Absolutely Want A New Wincon And To Screw My Team Over (keeping in mind that Villagers in particular lose their old wincon when they convert out.) Edited to add: Sorry, just to be clear: I've made that argument, do feel it's a knave's argument, but do feel on a game design level that players will make that inference so it's imperative to ask as a designer if that's something I want to be expressly giving permission to. I'm okay with the mechanic as you are, but I think it puts players in a very awkward/odd position because it's hard to justify it from the attitude of a player taking your own wincon seriously. Which means its existence fundamentally entails a basic attitude of "ok I guess my wincon isn't that important to me tbh." Which is fine, at least that's the position I took on entering the game, but I feel that it has serious gameplay consequences that need to be considered. I'd say it requires you to be soft anti-wincon, even if not hard-anti-wincon. The fact that no Intent Wincon is supposed to lock you out of playing with a particular team is helpful here as it makes it only soft anti-Village at best, but knowingly and willfully putting yourself in a position where the gamestate may require you to be anti-Village to fulfill your wincon is still an interesting choice. FWIW I worry about the requiring someone convert choice - similar to requiring a sacrifice, my concern is it gets players to sort of do a 'who is more valuable' listing and pressure perceived inactives or perceived low value players into leaving. That's pretty dangerous as an attitude to be endorsing. Yep. Because my read is that the answer to (1) is yes, and the answer to (2) is definitely yes because I asked about its legality prior to making the threat to do so. The GM+IM view was: "It's kind of an arse move but you did warn them and you're known to hate being Evil so that makes it a bit less sucky than if you blindsided them with it out of nowhere." FWIW I probably would have asked Drake to not make me ID the entire team to him as the cost of converting out to ally with him but if he'd made that the cost, I'd've to roll with it. Beggars can't be choosers in this landscape of low breaches. I think the bottom line is that my takeaway is that games get screwy when Intent Conversions are part of the picture, because the choice is firmly in the hands of the player. It's really rare to do it and to not mean it willfully when you have to do it thrice. On the player-side, this is very firmly part of the reason I refused to take the game seriously prior to parrying the ML away from Szeth and feeling guilt over the three MLs + Szeth softclaiming Frost on Roshar. Staying Village in a game where most players are willing to stab the Village in the back for crems and giggles, lulz, a feeling of power, or being on the winning team quite frankly sucks and there's no point in getting that invested in the game since that sets you up for failure. On the game-design side, I think there's a question to be asked: is this so fun that I want the default mode of engagement of the game to be about the fun rather than taking wincon seriously? Is this the sort of basic attitude I'm looking for from my players? FWIW I do think a legitimate answer is yes - many Shard games are just weird power trips that end up being somewhat fun because they're weird power trips but also broken af. Edited to add 2: Right, apologies - I realised I answered your questions in a descriptive way rather than normative way. Truthfully, (1) and (2) give me an icky feeling. I detest that sort of play viscerally and don't feel it's consistent with my wincon. I was vaguely okay with this because of a 'not Vmaxxing' attitude but also mostly elided the discomfort by Not Thinking About Them. So I think straightforwardly the fact the game finds both (1) and (2) acceptable is undeniable. But whether I think it should be acceptable or not is a more cursed question and if I am forced to be truthful about my feelings, the answer is no. I think my bottom line is some hot mix of: Do Not Like + I kind of think that's the price you pay in setting up a Shard game + Faction game + Conversion game: you just have to accept wincon shenanigans are a hot mess, opportunists will exist, and this is A Different Sort of Game. Edited to add 3: Maybe this is the best take I have for this: Can you convert out? Sure. Will I consider myself in breach of my wincon if I shoot or exe you to remove a defection risk? No. If (1) and (2) are allowed by the rules, so is (3). Edited to add 4: Like - unfortunately or otherwise, there's simply no world in which Intent Converting to Aut can be seen as anything other than an explicitly anti-Village action. There's no such justification here for that particular thing and that door is wide open: even more so because Elims cannot Intent Convert to Aut. Only Villagers can.

Scadrial D3 is missing as well.

ETA 2 weeks. Edited to add: This rule keeps getting lost so I'm going to put it here for my SAN. Worth noting for everyone that there is a tracker in GM sign-ups for how far we are from the next passless non-Sanderson game (check the blue counted in the Past Games tab, blue marks a non-SE game without a pass): QF: Last passless game was QF62 - I have just run QF66, so the QF non-SE slot is once again open. MR: Last passless game was MR61. Szeth is soon running MR64, which means that after MR65, the MR non-SE slot will once again be available. LG: No passless games have yet been run. The LG non-SE slot is open.

Feel that a lot more needs to be said about whether it is a good/bad thing. As a player, fundamentally it means going into a game where you have to recognise you shouldn't take your wincon seriously because half your teammates will mug about for the chance to stab you in the back given the opportunity. Probably more reason to have trusted Drake. Oh well. I highlight that statement in particular because it feels a bit handwavey. And maybe that's fair as I shouldn't expect you to open a conversation about the ethics of self-chosen conversion and Devo and Aman and you certainly struggled to deal with me struggling about that. But I highlight this particularly because this is just an exchange I recently had with Archer over approval of a particular game. Which is that Archer notes that social disapproval can be something that stops players from screwing other players too much. And this is true. But when GMs design a feature into a game, then players may also infer that it's acceptable to do those things. And then problems can arise anyway. (Hi Len.) It feels like something that in game design, the GM really needs to think about, and that players need to consider their views on before signing up for such games to moderate expectations. Anyway: Last doc: I was locked out of the CR Dead Doc for quite a bit due to being neither really dead nor alive and had to brief Stick and wanted her to do an excellent job, so I turned my old notes doc into a Stick briefing doc, and then we forked it so I existed in one fork that became my Exile Dead Doc for a while until finally I was let in through the red tape to the dead doc. Screw Endowment and Ambition, worst Shards >:P

RIP bro. I'm still talking about the shot, and I think we're just going to have to disagree, Holy Ruin. For my part, anything that needs to be said has been in the dead doc, in my exile doc (yep I got caught in traffic...) or in the thread. I do not recommend reading Threnody as it long and increasingly incoherent and I'm not sure N5-D6 Kas even understood what he was doing at points and a lot of this is me doing the thing in the Matrix where you've made the choice then seek to understand why you make it. Oh, and I suppose, the one meme that summarises my entire experience with this game: Oh yeah, thanks for GMing Ash and Aman. Was a ride. And thanks for replacing me Stick. Every cycle your posts gave me something to LOL over, whether it was "cheeky Endowment breach," "bye bye murderpuppy," or "demonic awakening."

I gotchu sis.

Other way around: I approached Drake with - not an offer, I'd wanted to negotiate for a joint victory, but I told him I wanted to Intent Convert to neutral or leave the game because I felt very torn between my duty to him and my duty to my fellow Villagers. He made a full offer to defect to his team. I was not really comfortable with it. A lot of backstabbing ensued in which I stabbed Drake and JNV in the back, then felt awful and like a real arse about it, and then compensatorily stabbed the Village in the back, sort of tried to get TBB lynched, felt awful about that and then sort of just noped out of the game. So you're not really wrong but not really right either, it was just Complicated. Tbh I'm a straight-shooter, not really cut out for faction games when my bros all fighting then no matter what I do I hurt/betray someone. The IM's advice to me at that point was to pick who I was willing to hurt more. I really appreciated it, just didn't think I was in the right headspace as it became functionally about ensuring any choice hurt me the most, which was not healthy either nor a good metric. Enough said, I think. It's just that Threnody is long and I wanted to set the record straight that it wasn't really about backstabbing per se for me. It was about wanting to do right by my team and also by Drake. Why is everyone in this game mugging for conversion smdh >:P It was legit the last thing I wanted.

...We're gonna have a chill memeful game, eh? >:P

If it makes you feel better - in a world where I went through with helping Drake, I explicitly stated I didn't want to win because I would have betrayed both Drake and my faction by MLing you and buying Drake the time for JNV to go through with it. It probably wouldn't have meant much to the players on my team I'd burned on the way, including you, but the least I could do was to take the L with them. Despite not having gone through with it, I feel the fact I backstabbed every single player including JNV over the course of a Day and a Night means I'm fundamentally not comfortable with any outcome that didn't involve me losing. Thank you, but I'm happy to have lost.

sir I was betting on u u did this u >:( smdfh And thanks, TKN, but no thanks. I'm content with having lost this game and didn't want to win.

Don't worry, sis That quote struck a chord in my heart It, too, awoke something demonic in me Drake knows.

Sir, u didn't even see through Stick I lost a bet u don't get to give me this

As you did point out to me when I said no, many players would be champing at the bit for the opportunity. My reply would be the same reply I gave to Wilson years ago, I suppose. That and the fact your powers of corruption aren't really quite there yet, sir :eyes:

Congrats to Stick for making the best damn quote of this game by far Miles, miles above the murderpuppy quote. 100% relatable. Made me laugh so much I kept making typos and Drake finally asked me if I was having a stroke.

Wcgw Nah I'll do the safe thing and mix in a vial and leave it for a week before trying.

Birmingham demands a king's ransom to ship here, so that's unfortunate for me. I have never found Noodlers' to be consistent: their Turquoise came out a deep dark green, so I wouldn't be really surprised there. Might see if I can do the R&K and Honey Burst mix as I have both inks.

I have, but wondering if you all have anything that particularly works. Most of the inks they suggest aren't easily available where I am, e.g. we don't get a lot of the Ferris Wheel inks and importing them here is murder. You're right about subtle as Yamabukiiro is suggested an alt but it's too yellow (I have it.) Antigua's Olive looks like the closest, but again, difficult to get my hands on.

Was worth a dream, thanks Pilot, of all the inks why'd you have to kill Ina-ho... Mildly disappointed that Reddit voted against Rolled Oats and the Harvest ink that would've been close to Ina-ho...

Anyone have any good Ina-ho lookalikes? Can't believe I have just one bottle of it

Smh murderpuppy, breaking your limits and proving yourself worthy to stay alive is your schtick! I'm simply delivering your own teachings unto you!

Farewell to everyone. I'm sorry I couldn't balance what I felt were conflicting obligations to my Village bros and to Drake bro. I hope to see you all someday again in a kinder, better time. Thanks for all the fish. P.S. As my last statement of the game, as I'm no longer quite a Villager anymore: @DrakeMarshall yo bro I know this is like the Epitome of Mixed Messages but I did my duty but I hope u win lol & am rooting for u