Pathfinder

No, to clarify. I see unstable as the definition: "prone to change, fail, or give way; not stable" This says to me that by you saying Jasnah is unstable, and will react to Szeth is she will lash out at him, and or immediately attack suddenly without provocation. I maintain there would be friction, but considering we see her consider, think things through, talk to others, and reason shows she would not just jump. To me you are more focused on this aspect of the definition: "prone to psychiatric problems or sudden changes of mood" Yes, Jasnah as well as the others have mental problems they are working through, but again to me, that does not say they are "prone to sudden changes of mood" or "prone to change, no stable". So I disagree with you, but given your premise is, to me, based on how you choose to use unstable, I do not think we could reach a commonality, or understanding. Hope that helps.

The only reason I refer to older posts is I don't want to strangle opposing views just by re-typing what I think over and over again. My line of thinking is if you already read what I wrote that I feel already replies to your points, then me re-typing it won't change anything except take more space. So if you have time and choose to read it, great. If not, at the end of the day you are the arbiter of your own day and time. I think what it comes down to is we have different views on the definition of unstable. Based on my definition, they are not. Based on yours, you feel they are. In that I guess to each their own.

Best guess, in your opinion. Personally I feel my theory is the best guess. Everyone has a right to their interpretation.

Good points on the future sight and information Hmmm. Not sure I am completely sold, but it does make a lot of sense especially combined with Weltall's points about her future sight and information network.

Again, I feel you are taking Rayw2's statement out of context. He never said Adolin's life by itself was fine and dandy. He said in comparison to some characters it could be seen as normal. I am only stressing that difference because things could get heated and misunderstood if the conversation continues on that misunderstood premise.

Rayw2 didn't say Adolin lived a perfect life. He said: "In comparison with backstories of some characters Adolin have had a normal life" I took that to mean he felt Adolin's younger life was not as extreme as let us say Kaladin, Shallan, or Dalinar.

Hmmm, interesting theory. Do you think Nightblood showing up on Roshar was intentional on Edgli's part? As kind of a warning to Odium? Like "see, this is what I arranged to get made, and it isn't even the final product. Watch yourself and stick to your own corner of the cosmere or else. We clear?"

This is not directed towards anyone. Just was re-reading Way of Kings for the 100th time, and came across this scene: Way of Kings page 161 "I failed them. They're dead now." "They would have died more quickly without you. You made it so they had a family in the army. I remember their gratitude. It's what drew me in the first place. You helped them" Personally I think it is about Kaladin learning when he has done enough. He cannot protect people from themselves. I posted elsewhere how I realized had Kaladin been in the right frame of mind, he could have used adhesion to keep the two sides apart, and then the gravitational pull lashing in case any of them tried to throw spears at each other. But again that would be like trying to stop a storm by blowing hard. The rest of the parshmen army would show up and kill the guards, or the rest of the guards would have shown up and killed the parshmen. Kaladin did what he could for the parshmen. In the end events beyond his control led them to this place to be on the opposite side of the battle. Same thing with the guards. He did not fail both sides because they died. He succeeded by protecting and helping them while they lived. Same thing happened trying to protect the people when the highstorm came. Actually as I write this, he literally did try to stop the highstorm by blowing hard lol. Syl and the Stormfather tried to explain to him, that sometimes it is just what happens. Stormwinds blow. People get hurt. It happens. You do what you can to mitigate it, but at the end of the day the whole world and everyone in it is not your sole responsibility. They are people with thoughts, and feelings of their own and they are going to do what they are going to do. You can try and nudge them, but like a mother learning to let her children live for themselves, you have to learn to let go and trust in yourself, what you have done for them, and trust in them. Just some thoughts that popped into my head when I read that scene that I felt was applicable to this thread.

i think there can be a few rationales presented. We know already that Frost has a policy of non-intervention and has tried to convince Hoid to do the same. So I do not think it a stretch to think that Edgli may feel the same. Another option is Edgli could feel that Odium has only attacked Shards that broke their deal at the beginning. Shards that group together, or interfere with each other. So she could think that if she minds her own business she will be left alone, which would explain her hostility towards Hoid trying to meddle on her world. She wouldn't want to be "seen" with him, and considered a potential adversary. Finally as you said, another very valid possibility is she has an ace in the hole ready to play if he were to go for her. Personally I feel it may be a combination of some or all of the above I listed.

I agree, and even have a WoB that supports that Jasnah truly loves her family and wants to see them protected. Jasnah also does not act rashly. She held back on assassinating Aesudan because she didn't have enough information and didn't want to act till she was sure. I think I posted both that quote and the WoB in this thread already a bunch of posts ago, but if not let me know and I will post it here. Yeah, I most definitely disagree with this. I think Jasnah will not be thrilled to work with Szeth, and there will be friction, but I whole heartily disagree that Jasnah is emotionally unstable. And there are plenty of examples where she realizes her mistakes, and strives to do better (how she has been handling Shallan's wardship). Plenty of examples of her caring and loving (Shallan's attempted suicide, Renarin). Plenty of examples of her controlling her emotions (Amaram). Please read my prior posts, I have them listed all there. I don't really feel there is a problem that needs solving. Dalinar already gave Kaladin lands under the Kholin crown. Kaladin is a soldier in the Kholin military. Kaladin does not need to be linked any further to the Kholins. I do not see it accomplishing anything necessary. I agree. Again, I do not see the necessity.

I think the terminology in this case is a splinter, but I couldn't say with 100 percent certainty so don't quote me lol. So what you are basically going for is Galactus Devourer of Worlds lol. Lol I concur. Hmmm, that is an interesting question. Is the housing for Yelig-nar an only on switch for it? Does it act as a prison while housed within till the person dies? Hmmm, my only thought so far is no, because we have seen the gemstone used and it is not a perfectly cut gemstone which is required to trap the unmade The Thrill. So I think theoretically Yelig-nar could end the effect if it so chooses, but referencing the Thrill is the best I can come up with to go on, and that is pretty loose.

Lol, in this case I don't think it would work out the way you are going for. I think they would both feed directly on Amaram till Amaram goes poof. Once Amaram no longer existed, Yelig-nar's connection to the physical realm ceases so nightblood couldn't feed on him, and since nightblood can't swallow the gemstone to give Yelig-nar an anchor to feed from, yelig-nar couldn't feed on nightblood. It would be interesting to see who would win the eating contest if they could eat each other, but I do not think it is possible to set up such a scenario. lol

Ah, now I see. Sorry I misunderstood Thank you. I think the individual still being able to exist even as it is being consumed is a means to prolong yelig-nar's feeding, and mirrors nightblood though I am not sure if we ever saw someone wield the blade without a means of drawing in stormlight.......wait! Szeth did before he bonded a spren! He used nightblood very quickly, but he was able to take out the blade, kill the warden and sheathe it once more all while being drained (I believe his arm gets paler as result if I remember correctly).

"Only if they are fools", "of course they know where they met Kaladin", "He has laid a trail pointing home" Well I think that says everything. When you would like to provide in book references and WoB to back up your assertions then I will take your arguments seriously. Till then, this reads as a strawman argument all over.

That is a faulty argument. The fused will do what I say, because the fused are smart, so they would do what I think is smart. There is nothing of substance in that statement to derive anything from.

But the problem with that logic is they have to have a reason to look in that area to begin with. As I said the group of parshmen Kaladin came with came from numerous locations. None of them knew where Kaladin came from. They took him "prisoner". Second most of the parshmen group is dead as per the battle of Kholinar. So there isn't any information coming from that group that would pin point Hearthstone to express any interest to begin with. So if they do not have any reasons to send spies to and around Hearthstone, then how are these none existent spies supposed to over hear people talking about Kaladin the radiant from Hearthstone? Further Kaladin did not identify to any of the other villages that he is from Hearthstone. He literally went from village to village. There is only one person with spanreeds in all of Hearthstone, Laral (I think thats her name? Kaladin's ex). Kaladin used stormlight to travel from village to village, so news is not going to spread amongst the darkeyes unless specifically requested and sent via spanreed. So again, not seeing how this information is going to get out.

Interesting. So little point of clarity, from what I understand gems that develop in the native fauna are not perfect. They still need to be cut. It is the cut that determines if they are perfect gemstones. I think the gem growths that appear as Yelig-nar consumes is a by production of his investiture consumption, like how Nightblood gives off black smoke heavier than air. The description implies to me that the crystal structure is actually replacing the body as it is consumed. As to the reason for swallowing the gemstone, I do agree that I feel it is a channel for Yelig-nars power to enter the physical realm.

1. Moash doesn't know where Kaladin is from. Only knows Amaram betrayed Kaladin 2. Troop of Parshmen Kaladin joined came from many different towns converging from various directions over a period of days. Not directly from Hearthstone 3. Kaladin traveled through multiple towns/villages gathering information on parshmen in every single town/village Only stopped at one point at Hearthstone, which is a random village of no strategic importance to the Fused 4. He also told every other village he visited that he was a Radiant. Not sure how that would single out Hearthstone 5. He never informed any of the villages he visited of his place of origin. 6. Spies spy on places of strategic importance. Hearthstone is of no strategic importance.

Thanks! Hmmm, well Vyre would be able to access stormlight due to the honorblade. If he could also find a way to access voidlight, then having two fuel sources to feed Yelig-nar would truly make him a fearsome opponent as he could use a lot of the abilities with rather impunity.

To be clear from onset, the title was written for the sake of brevity. I am not saying Yelig-nar was created like Nightblood. I am not saying Yelig-nar is an awakened blade or was awakened in anyway. I am also not saying Yelig-nar is nightblood when Rosharan investiture is used to create it. Ok, now that I established what I am not saying, let me establish what I am saying. Nightblood when wielded consumes investiture. If there is not an outside source (such as the breaths of enemies, or stormlight) nightblood consumes the innate investiture of the wielder till death. When Nightblood is sheathed, there is no investiture consumed/lost. I posit that Yelig-nar functions the same way. First we see Aesudan with Yelig-nar. She swallowed the stone before we see her on screen. During her conversation with Kaladin and Elhokar, she implies that she had bonded Yelig-nar some time ago. When they first approached her, she seemed completely human, just acted oddly. No red eyes, no rock like protrusions. It was only when she began to summon Yelig-nar's power that her eyes began to glow red, and the crystals began to grow. Then we have Amaram. We see him swallow the stone on screen. The glowing red eyes and crystals accelerate far faster than what we saw happen with Aesudan. I posit the reason for this is he not only summoned Yelig-nar's powers, but began to actively use them in combat with Kaladin. I think Odium set up both Aesudan and Amaram to fail knowing that unless you have a means of drawing in outside investiture (such as stormlight), then anytime you activate Yelig-nar and use his powers, it then begins to consume/feed on the individual to fuel said powers. I feel control is needed to not get carried away with using Yelig-nar's powers resulting in it consuming too much too fast, and the user perishing (like when Nightblood is unsheathed and begins feeding). I think the only way to be a "perfect bond" for Yelig-nar is to 1. Either be a fused, radiant, or some other entity with access to investiture for it to consume 2. Be in control of yourself so as to not channel too much of Yelig-nar's power without the amount of investiture to back up to the use.

Well yes. That was the ending of Oathbringer. Dalinar brought the alliance back together after the battle of Thayla. So yes. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Because the other nations would prefer an equal alliance which is what Dalinar worked the whole book to bring about, Jasnah will seek to marry another nation in order to force them under Alethi rule and conquor the rest? Everything we have read in Oathbringer reads counter to this. Again we reach the point of talking past each other. I guess all we can do at this point is RAFO. Personally I feel the subsequent books will support and validate what I have written. I do not see a point in continuing discussion with you.

Actually there is a WoB that states there will be some friction with Szeth because of Gavilar's murder. I think Jasnah was mentioned by name, but I need a chance to dig it up. Will edit this post when I find it. edit: so jasnah was not mentioned by name, but here is the WoB I was referring to -lurcher- At the end of Oathbringer, it seems that many (including myself) felt that Szeth's return and sudden alignment with the protagonists went over a little too easily. Are they accepting of him now? Why the sudden change of heart? Are there going to be trust issues in the future? Brandon Sanderson Uh, yeah. Obviously crazy men who shift allegiances quickly, after murdering the king and starting a war, aren't exactly the sort you leave home to babysit your kids.

Heralds were proven to have betrayed mankind. Amaram is the most devout Vorin boy you can get and you saw what happened to him when he found out the truth. Again for all the reasons I already laid out I whole heartily disagree. At this point we are just talking past each other. I would normally wish you luck with your theory, but this is one I just cannot see eye to eye on. I can however respect your right to disagree. To each their own

No worries. I understand and wish you luck with your theory! Guess at the end of the day all we can do is RAFO and whatever way it goes, it is sure to be epic

So not sure if you misunderstood what I wrote at the beginning or I am misunderstanding you now but to clarify, Kaladin is the verified agnostic I was referring to. As per WoB Kaladin is agnostic. Jasnah is an atheist. So Kaladin (n my opinion) as an agnostic would not care what connotation the heralds hold. Kaladin is the one you are saying reacted the way he did because the herald is his "pope", when the herald is not his "pope" as Kaladin is agnostic. Hope that clarified things The prior radiants found a way to prevent the listeners from bonding spren at all. So technically they succeeded. Given the success was "short" lived, the group would seek another option where they could co-exist with the listeners but end the fused ability to return (for example what happened to jezerin at the end). I already provided an alternative had Kaladin been in the right state of mind (stressing that he was justifiably emotionally and mentally in pain, so he couldn't realistically contribute to the meeting). Had Kaladin had time to think things through, he would have realized there was a great resource in Rlain. He could have suggested talking to Rlain to learn more about his people. He could have already talked to Rlain and asked him about the fused and what bonding spren means. Rlain muses to himself how all the humans are still shaky around him because they fear he could change at anytime, when (from his own thoughts), he has to be outside and open to the change. Had Jasnah known this, then they could discuss ways to talk with awakened Parshmen, show that the fused do not have their best interests in mind, and start an underground railroad for parshmen seeking to switch sides. Also research could be done into the effect the fused have on the listener they possess. If they could realize the fused destroy the listener they possess, and find a way to get that info to the parshmen, it would do a huge boon to showing Odium is not the listeners friends. Basically genocide is not the only answer. The sheer fact that Jasnah is seeking an alternative and even states that it would "protect Kaladin's precious parshmen" says she is not doing it only to have a chance to wipe them out. She is genuinely looking for alternative solutions that involve preserving the parshmen race. Again I feel you are reducing the scene. You can acknowledge a situation. You can accept horrible options exist and state them without advocating those options. Without being read to always go towards those options. This was literally one discussion that again I feel is doing a disservice to the character by you painting her as a mass murderer, and then by painting her in such an extreme light, then assuming she will always act that way when we see countless instances where she does not. But at the end of the day I have already made a lot of these arguments so I do not see the point in rehashing everything I said over and over. Everyone can interpret these books and characters differently. To each their own. So I shall agree to disagree. edit: oh I will also add they now have access to nightblood which destroys the fused possessing spirit as well as the body. Since the original owner of the body is killed when possessed by the fused, killing the fused with nightblood begins to limit Odium's never ending returning army which would avoid the need of a genocide.