Pathfinder

She doesn't at this time but that does not mean she is not capable of having some. Shallan has started getting squires with Vathah. We also know other orders could have them, while others potentially have none, so the potential is there. So basically I am saying if we allow Kaladin to include squires, then Jasnah should be able too. And it would not be putting things unfairly in her favor, because it specifically says Windrunner squires are more powerful than typical squires, so Kaladin would still have an edge in that. At least potentially till he is locked away in an aluminum box. I feel like there is a WoB that says aluminum could prevent summoning a shardblade, though I could be confusing it with the one that says a leecher actively leeching a shardbearer would prevent summoning the blade. Let me do some digging. I think even the leecher preventing summoning could imply aluminum could interfere with connection, but it would probably depend on wording and be open to interpretation. Will edit when I find them. edit: so I have listed below the WoB that (I have spoiled the explanation as well as all the WoB as they are referring to other books and this is in stormlight)

Lol glad to help.

We see the level of Jasnah's proficiency at soulcasting outside that occurrence. As mentioned earlier she can soulcast multiple normal people from opposite directions. She can soulcast fine details out of a large piece by inscribing words on a piece of paper via soulcasting. She can also soulcast a large boulder, where the cracking of the stone was only so she could continue to pretend that she was using a fabrial and not her own power. So I do not think she would normally be as limited as you imply. I would have to check but I do believe we have WoB that Aluminum would block a shardblade. Just it is still a sword, so the aluminum would have to be thick enough/durable enough to take a blow from a sword. If Kaladin can bring his squires in, I assume Jasnah could bring hers as well? Windrunners are not the only ones that can get squires, just they are more numerous/powerful than typical squires. I see no reason why Jasnah could not also potentially end up with squires herself. edit: that makes you wonder if Kaladin brought his squires, and then was encased in an aluminum box, wouldn't all the squires then lose their powers?

Lol, sorry to burst your bubble, but she already did see them. She saw the drawing of her soulcasting when she first found out Shallan still hadn't left the Palanaeum and looked through Shallan's stuff to judge if she was genuine in seeking to be her ward. There is also a drawing of Jasnah by Shallan, that Jasnah kept with her stuff that Shallan found in Jasnah's trunk, showing Shallan that the artwork did mean a lot to her.

LOL, touche.

The thing with Jasnah is, in my opinion, all her character development and issues were in her past. She has the role of mentor at this time. I believe her character cannot yet be delved into till the back five when we get to see her flashbacks where her conflicts originate, and we can see how she became the woman she is "today". Jasnah makes mistakes and admits to them, just to me, since she is still in the background and not the forefront yet, those mistakes are not narrative altering. Yeah, it is going to be a lot of work and I don't know if I will ever finish it, but I have been putting together every book quote about Jasnah to put together what I feel is a better understand of the character. The times we see the genuine Jasnah are brief, but the moments are many and they are poignant. I hope by calling attention to these moments, people who start to see what I feel is the "real" Jasnah. Because frankly they didn't have enough information, which Jasnah was pushing for them to research, partially via finding the heralds. We don't even fully know what is keeping the fused continually returning. Lol I understand. I think Jasnah's suggestion with the oathpact was a delaying action, to try something with what little info they have. I think in book 4, given all that occurred in oathbringer, their tactics will change.

As everyone has said, Jasnah only used her shardblade twice in the entirety of Oathbringer. The scene with Amaram involved her holding her glowing hand out hinting to me she was ready to soulcast him. The first use of her shardblade was when she did a broad swipe across multiple normal human enemies possessed by the Thrill. The second was when she noticed a fused swooping in due to the spren warning her of its presence, and she just again swiped the blade for a quick kill. No draw out battle. No skill necessary (to me). Now if she went up against a competent swordsperson, and held her own by blade alone, then I would say something is up, but that doesn't happen.

The fused was close enough that Navani called to Jasnah in warning and fear. The book says she soulcasted it directly in front of the fused. Your argument is that because of kaladin flying, the disturbed air would prevent soulcasting, when in this instance it did not. What Shallan did was different. She summoned the objects aspect into the cognitive realm using stormlight, and all the beads came together to form that. That was not actual soulcasting. edit: also consider this. She soulcasted a sheet of oil. If you open a trap door that leads to a container of water, how long does it take for that water to plummet to the ground? So that means that fused had to be close enough to hit that oil before it started to fall to the ground. And the oil did hit the ground because jasnah made a point of soulcasting it away to smoke after. So it would not magically just hang in the air The scene I am referring to is the thug steps up to her with a knife and swings it at her. She reaches up, touches his chest, and transforms him to fire. My point is the speed of soulcasting. He was actively swinging the knife at her, yet she was able to transform him before he finished the swing. My point is line of sight is not required. You do not have to be looking directly at, or even see your target to soulcast it. Same stands with the two thugs running away from her. She closed her eyes, raised her hand, and twin bolts went in opposite directions hitting them both, turning them to smoke at the same time. As it is heavily hinted Jasnah is further along in her oaths than Kaladin, Jasnah would be more invested and potentially could hold more stormlight than him. Very true The thrill filled soldiers were possessed by spren. That says to me their "identity" was already subverted. That would make it easier to soulcast them to me, I believe @Calderis was referring to the first time Jasnah soulcasted in the castle which resulted her falling into a sea of beads. She had not even begun bonding ivory yet (or seemed to have just begun), yet she was able to keep her mind focused and exert control over the realm to create a raft to stand on. Regarding shallan's lightweaving has to do with investiture interfering with investiture. Shallan was using a small amount tied to a gemstone. Theoretically if she used enough stormlight she would overwhelm his. Same stands for Jasnah. Brandon has been quoted in saying that Jasnah has been a radiant longer than any other character. Kaladin is at the 3rd oath, Shallan is at the 4th. Potentially Jasnah is at the 4th or maybe even the 5th.

Just a reminder, Dalinar got excommunicated so he is no longer "Vorin", so currently there are no Vorin Bondsmiths. edit: oh also to add it seems the "main" followers of Vorinism is Jah Keved and Alethkar. Thayla pays token allegiance and still holds to the passions, and the Azir largely ignore the religion in favor of the Prime Aquaix (or however you spell it). So the only people to me that would really have an issue with it are the Alethi, which are now being led by an atheist Queen Jasnah.

The fused was flying right at her, and she soulcasted a sheet of oil right in front of it without looking. The thugs were running away from her in opposite directions and she soulcasted them both at the same time. First one could be claimed to be thanks to Dalinar putting the realms together, but not the second. Side thought, if somehow Jasnah got stuck on stone that Kaladin had put adhesion on, could she just teleport away? I assume she could just soulcast it away, and I assume she could teleport away, but I am curious on other people's thoughts. edit: also consider in the scene with the thugs, the first one swings a knife at her. In the span of time of her touching him, while the knife is going at her, he is changed to fire before it gets anywhere near stabbing her. How long would you say it would take for a person standing in front of anything to bring a knife to bear? 2 seconds? 5?

No problemo. Everything about aluminum is weird. mistborn spoiler Aluminum by itself is not invested, so it would not be like trying to soulcast a godmetal. So I do not see any reason why you cannot soulcast something into aluminum. The problem is then soulcasting the aluminum into a different material. I see what you are getting at, but the person flat out states that we know you can soulcast things into aluminum and Brandon does not correct that person. That seems like a pretty big oversight to me if that person was in error and Brandon said nothing, but admittedly that is my own interpretation. Oh it most definitely could be a stoneward thing and even a willshaper thing, by turning the ground into quicksand like which is what Amaram did to Kaladin. I was just saying how a elsecaller could do something similar. I respect your opinion. I do feel however given we know elsecallers are capable of incredible dexterity with their soulcasting (Shallan commented on how Jasnah used the soulcaster to inscribe words on paper by soulcasting parts of the paper to smoke or flame, leaving the script on it) that they could do even more than that. According to Jasnah the difficulty in soulcasting air is because it is used to seeing itself as fully "one" or indefinable. That is why mundane soulcasters prefer rocks that have broken off by themselves and have had time to see themselves as separate stones because they are easier to soulcast. So it wouldn't be so much "new air", as convincing a chunk of air that it is "separate". I would liken it to taking a cookie cutter and placing it in the middle of a cake. You get the form you want by deciding "this" portion is one section of air. Jasnah was able to do so while running, making steps form as she ran up them. Replied to this above. edit: this is mute anyway, because Jasnah is able to soulcast air fast enough to 1. run up it and 2. soulcast a sheet of oil right in front of a fused flying in to attack her. If the movement of the fused would have disrupted the air too much for her to soulcast, then she should not have been able to soulcast the oil close enough to the fused that it could not dodge out of the way of the sheet and be covered in it. Also she wasn't even looking at the fused at the time, so direct sight is not needed.

Regarding spren means of locomotion, one interesting about Syl is it is continually commented on how she acts as if she has her own gravity. As in she will walk down a wall towards Kaladin, or walk up invisible steps. When talking to him upside down, her hair is not hanging, it is down as if Kaladin is the one upside down instead of her. The description comments on that specifically. As to Pattern, i will need to check, but I feel the few times we see Pattern float, he drifts back down to the ground as if he cannot maintain it. Wyndle grows as is mentioned. Truthwatcher spren seem to move across the ground as well. Ivory shrinks down to a speck and zips across the ground. The stormfather is understandably an exception lol. I do not beleive we get to see Malata's spren. Hmmm, am I missing anyone?

I watched a podcast that I think brought up an interesting point. The trailers do focus on the main continent, but there are three to four other continents grayed out on the map. The church, or each others nations could be the "villians" in the story, but also so could those outside nations. Personally I still would like to see three autonomous stories to increase replay-ability, otherwise I do not see the point of which house you pick mattering, especially if you end up with all the same units in the end regardless. I could see the story going that you pick a house, and when the land is either invaded, or the church turns against others, you help defend the land associated with your house. Then you either travel to the other country, or travel to the lands associated with the other houses to liberate them from the other country's or the church's control. So you would still run into the other houses eventually, but the maps, and story would be different depending on which house you start out with.

Lol, honestly I have come up with a whole "soulcaster kata" so I have countless ideas. Full Metal Alchemist provides quite a few too. Simple ones could be soulcasting a little lip/rise on the ground for your enemy to trip over. Soulcast some dust in their face. Soulcast smoke all around you, teleport away, then soulcast a giant stone above the enemy to drop crushing them. These examples are not directed at Kaladin, as flying away would handle most of them, but just saying some cool ideas I had come up with using soulcasting. Also can soulcast oil to make the enemy slip. Then there is restraining the enemy though I wlll get into that more with Robardin below I used the leotard idea more to illustrate how when transforming the very air to solid, you wouldn't need to allow for space, it could be so close as to be a second skin, but be a foot thick. Honestly I think a person could soulcast restraints on an enemy during combat. The only way I could see that not happening is if a person's investiture almost acts like a "field" effect, so it takes as much to soulcast cuffs directly onto a person as it does to directly soulcast a person. I do not think that is the case, but I can see the rationale. If that is not the case, then there are all sorta of ways to entrap enemies. Actually Jasnah likely does know about aluminum. It is a rare and expensive metal. She is a princess of an entire country. I think it would be a given that she has had some necklaces or rings of aluminum in her time. So her soulcasting the air around him directly into aluminum I think would be entirely plausible. I just love all the potential applications and uses for soulcasting. Add teleportation on top and that is why I love the Elsecaller order

I would need to do some digging, but I thought it was mentioned in the merchant scene in the Shin land about soulcasting aluminum? I interpreted what Brandon said as not believing what Shallan said about aluminum being only able to be made via soulcasting. We know you can get aluminum naturally, but it is very very difficult. Only a chemical process later made it easier to make. So it could still be rare, still be made primarily via soulcasting, but still also be able to be produced other ways. edit: actually nevermind, we do know you can soulcast things into aluminum. Just trying to soulcast aluminum into something else is incredibly hard. WoB below Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] So, we know that things can be Soulcast into aluminum. But can aluminum itself be Soulcast into something else? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] It resists all forms of Investiture trying to change it to things. edit 2: side note, am I the only person that would kill to see jasnah summon her shardblade, and then soulcast a shield, or blade, or hammer of aluminum in her other hand and go to town in the books?

Correct me if I am wrong @RShara but my impression of soulcasting is that the caster rearranges the atoms to take a form. When Jasnah spoke about soulcasting air to stone, it was difficult because of convincing the axia (Brandon explained axia was their way of calling atoms. I think the term is axia, don't have a chance to check to confirm right now but I will later) to link up. But soulcasting from what we have seen is instantaneous. The matter changes from one form to another. She is not compressing the air. She is taking air, and turning it into a completely different matter. Density matters because it does take more air to make the same volume of stone per density, but that is why there is a sensation of air rushing in. Other air is rushing in to fill the vacuum of the air that was instantly changed into a solid.

I think you misunderstood what @robardin was saying. Basically imagine you were in a form fitting leotard. Then imagine that leotard became stone. It is directly against your skin. What air are you pushing? Hope that clarified.

Well we know 10 is a big number to the knights, and that there were 10 heraldic kingdoms so I do not think it is a stretch to think they made 10 just because they made 10, not because they couldn't make more. Honestly the one thing I would concede is i think the setting up of the oathgate enables confirmed travel from one specific location to another while elsecalling is as brandon said, not an exact art. So I would imagine you are trying to teleport to lets say hearthstone, but you end up maybe several miles outside it, but you are definitely closer than you were before. You are just not able to pinpoint teleporting into a specific building. At least that was my reading of it. As to better on the draw, the only surge Kaladin seems to be able to do at ranged is adhesion, and when Szeth used it, it still seemed to be a spray a short distance away, while Jasnah can and has soulcasted at distance. Well if we are looking purely about surges, do you want to discount plate for both parties? Should we discount sprenblades as well or, keep them since it is natural to both? That is a good point about soulcasting a "sheath" directly around him. I wonder, does a person's natural investiture act like a "force field" where it is difficult to soulcast directly around them, or not? Cause you could soulcast all sorts of restraints on a person easily if there is no resistance there.

No worries. So this is just my own theory regarding Amaram, and why he received the treatment he did. Most of it is conjecture so obviously take it with a grain of salt. I think we all agree Brandon is rather religious. He calls himself a theist and is passionate regarding the religion he is a member of. I have read WoB and interviews with him about how he views his religion and interacting with that religion with others. At the end of the day (not to get political) my line of thinking is you are more than welcome to hold your own faith and I wish you well with it, as long as you respect that i myself do not share that faith and hope you wish me just as much well. My impression is Brandon does not view zealotry in a positive light. I think that is because he may think a zealot makes people of genuine faith look bad. It becomes a confrontation instead of a discussion, and it shuts down meeting in the middle and respecting each other. I would have to dig to find the exact interviews and WoB I am thinking of, but i got the impression that Brandon views Amaram in that light. As a zealot that is trying to force others to follow his beliefs rather than trying to convince them through a compelling argument and letting the person decide for themselves. That is why i feel any further development of Amaram would in my opinion play out the same way. Now this is also colored as my interpretation of Amaram I will be honest is rather negative so I am going to view his actions in a negative light. Just like how I am responding about Jasnah. Ironically enough I think we are both technically waiting for the same thing. You wanted PoV's of Amaram that can better explain, and dare I say justify his actions by showing who he is deep down. I look forward to more PoVs for Jasnah because I feel they will show more of her humanity and who I feel she is deep down. Maybe Brandon will release some PoVs of Amaram posthumous. I just think you will not get the answers you seek. Guess at the end of the day all we can do is RAFO lol. edit: @Toaster Retribution i did want to add an amendment to this post. Brandon has said when representing an opposing opinion, one should do their best to represent it well so it does not appear to be disregarding another view out of hand. it is why he researched atheism and did his best to represent it well despite himself being a theist. So just because Brandon may not view Amaram in a favorable light, does not necessarily mean he would not give him due treatment. Again at the end of the day guess we will RAFO.

I am not speaking of aluminum foil here. You could soulcast an aluminum box a foot thick on each side and Kaladin isn't breaking out of that even with shardplate. Suffocating would use up the stormlight he has trying to sustain him without oxygen. Though he could theoretically make air with adhesion. It would really be a waiting game for him to use up his stormlight and die.

We have WoB that elsecallers make their own mini perpendicularity when they use the surge of transportation. We know oathgates use the surge of transportation and they can teleport groups from one location to another. The book implies to me that the two spren in the oathgate that we meet are an elsecaller spren and a willshaper spren. So i think we have a pretty good indication on how transportation works.

Hmmm. Ok, I will put forward an example and you let me know if I am going in the right direction Troop movement. Over the short race Kaladin wins because his surge is more precise. He lashes the willing, and flies to the location and lands. Jasnah wins the long race because although elsecalling is not a precise science, even if you do not end up exactly where you want to, if your target is on the other side of the planet, you can still theoretically walk the remaining distance in time before kaladin would arrive Could soulcast the box as aluminum. Shardblades cannot cut aluminum. Ehhhh, if she had enough stormlight to overpower the amount he had, it is possible. Practical? No. But certainly possible. Just like Kaladin could use lashings on her if he had enough stormlight to overpower the amount she had.

Could you elaborate? So are you saying take Person A, give them transportation and transformation. Take Person B, give them gravitation and adhesion. Show person A and person B using the surges to accomplish....what?

Do you have any perimeters for the comparison (such as location, amount of stormlight, are they facing each other, or they facing enemies) or can whoever contributes name any?

I thought this was a thought experiment? Kaladin didn't send any of his enemies during the battle skyward to plummet to their death. Nor did he sling stones at anyone. That was Szeth, and that took a lot of stormlight to move the rock. As to a lighter rock, 40 lashes is still a lot of stormlight. Kaladin used a the lashing that pulls objects towards it to take in all the arrows the parshendi fired. That lashing normally takes very little stormlight yet that use completely drained him. Now if however we are coming up with scenarios to throw them into to compare their powers (which is what I thought we were doing), then that is different. if you throw shardbearers at Jasnah, you would need to throw them at kaladin. Fairs fair. Feel free to make another thread and then I will follow up with you there.